The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION

[zbyl2 816]

No-spoiler version: it was GREAT, I'm seriously impressed how good it was, I can't even be snarky about the movie any more, at some point it just blew me away but all the plot twists, the way it handled the Force and the Jedi, all that. I wasn't excited about the movie at all but I ended up loving it.

 

Anyway I started this thread so we can have spoiler discussions without cluttering the pre-release one.

 

Longer version of my thoughts as the movie progressed:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I had so many snarky comments in the first 30 minutes or so of the movie and then it just blew me away somewhere in the middle. And it got the Force and Jedi just so right, it's amazing.

I was worried in the beginning because it just looked the we're doing TESB opening again with attack on a Rebel base.
Poe Dameron just killed half his fleet. Good job dude.

Hey remember two years ago when I first said that TFA's biggest problem was how it never explained the situation in the galaxy and I'm just confused over power balance? And some people claimed it would be explained in a later movie? Not only was it dumb back then, it now turns out to be false. I still don't know what the hell is going on in the galaxy.

Too much slap stick humor. At least don't do it in LUKE FREAKING SKYWALKER'S INTRODUCTION.

Oh btw I recommend to stop reading if you haven't seen this movie. I'll warn you again before the really big spoilers, though.

Did Snoke just read my forum posts about Kylo from two years ago? I swear I called him the same thing.

And then we get two separate movies. An amazing one about Luke Skywalker and Rey, and the kinda boring one about the Rebels.

Is that the first mention of fuel in a star wars movie? hahaha it's hilarious because the plot actually relies on it.

Why is Rey sleeping outside when there's like 20 houses available around? And probably dozens of caves? And the Falcon's? Or at you could at least lie down next to Chewie's campfire?

Three versions of Luke/Kylo past to keep the suspense!

Luke Skywalker steals the show. He's the only one who's jokes always land (except for lightsaber throwing in his intro). Poe's pretty cool too.

Wait if Luke didn't know Falcon was there then what was he doing standing on that cliff? I figured he went there to watch Rey come up lol.

Rey's Force scene in the cave would have been even better without commentary. Still... so well done. Can we get Rian Jhonson to direct more things?

The Space Las Vegas is the worst part of the movie. Can we go back to Luke please?

Who else is shocked that they didn't run into Lando? I was sure that's who they went to look for.

What's up with Not-Yoda from TFA? I thought she was wise and stuff and here she's just running around like a quircky smuggler. Should I know more about her? Should I care?

R2-D2: plays Leia's message to trigger nostalgia in the audience.
Luke: "Cheap trick".
Cinemasins: "Mark Hamill's on-set criticism of the script makes it into actual movie".

Now we're getting into major spoilers. Seriously, do not read on if you haven't seen the movie. There's like 20 plot twists in there that you do not want to know in advance.

Did they kill Leia off screen? NOPE, JUST A SET UP FOR A SUPER DUPER DOPE FORCE USE SCENE. YEAH.

The Rebel stuff was dragging at first but now with new Admiral vs Poe vs Leia power struggle, Finn and the Asian chick on the star destroyer getting captured, and Rey being on the same ship without any one knowing this, there's suddenly so much tension, TFA wishes it was half as good.

Lol at the Faclon just randomly dropping out of hyperspace on the battle field, then flying away.

Rey vs Snoke vs Kylo. This is TENSE. No idea what's gonna happen.

Choking was both simpler and more effective than throwing people around tbh. Ah, good, old, simpler days.

I know Kylo won't kill her because she can't die yet. I guess he's going to attack Snoke? What chance does he have?

Blue saber on! Did Kylo force pull it so he and Rey can take on Snoke together?

NOPE.

DID SNOKE JUST DIE? WHAT THE HELL? I DID NOT SEE THIS COMING DID ANYONE THEORIZE THAT COULD HAPPEN BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THEY DID HOW AWESOME IS THIS MOVIE.

I don't believe Kylo is a good guy just yet. Oh yeah, he's not!

Join me, Rey! Wait is she?

That Force duel for the saber, woooooow.

Yoda felt like an organic addition and not just fan service.

Wait if he's so powerful as a ghost and he can still use the Force and interact with mortals, why didn't he just train Luke after dying in ROTJ? Actually, why didn't Obi-Wan? Force Ghosts are even more confusing now.

Jumping to hyperspace to destroy the fleet was a great move. Should have opened with that before they started shooting down your fleet.

Aaaand here's the ice planet. You just had to, didn't you?

"It's crystals", says a random soldier to make sure we know that just because it's white, it doesn't mean it's an ice planet. Nope, those are crystals. Totally different from Episode V. Yup.

Millennium Falcon ex machina. And I'm OK with that.

The Crystal Cave of Nostalgia trench run is too much for me. It really stands out too, because this movie has gotten so good, it easily stands on its own, and this kind of scenes just take you out of the movie.

Luke Skywalker came to be a badass.

"How did he get here", I wonder. Then Poe says it.

Luke in front of the Empire... music coming to a climax... DON'T YOU EVEN DARE ROLL CREDITS NOW, YOU DO NOT GET TO PULL THAT TRICK OFF TWICE IN A ROW.

Music ended. No credits. Whew.

Luke Skywalker is OP af.

Luke Skywalker is resistant to lightsabers?

Luke Skywalker is a god?

Haha Luke Skywalker isn't even here because plot twist. I love this movie.

Hey where are all the ice wolfs, I wonder. And so does Poe. Dammit screen writers, how are you ahead of me all of the sudden?

Giving Luke a Yoda death was a very fitting for him.

I actually like Kylo now. Snoke calling him out was great, his relationship with Rey is really cool and suspensfull, his hate for Luke is pure.

 

IS SNOKE STILL DEAD WHAT HAPPENED HOW I LOVED IT

 

Kylo needs his own badass music theme, like the Imperial March for Vader.

[Haveayap 127]

Agreed. Saw it yesterday myself (I live in NZ so the films been out for nearly a day now xD) and I have to say. This is a great film. I have been rather critical of Disney's first two star wars films but this film really hit the spot. Think I may have to rewatch it sometime today or tomorrow because it was that great
 

[Kexikus 998]

I've seen it twice now and sadly I can't really agree with you. The thing is . . . I don't even know why.

I really like most of the things it does - but for some reason - it doesn't quite catch me emotionally as a whole even though single scenes do just that.

Maybe it'll grow upon me over time or maybe it won't. In any case, it's a courageous movie and for that, I really appreciate it.

[DepressedDok 1]

 The movie tried too hard to be funny, most of the jokes had me wanting to facepalm. Another thing I hated was some poor CGI and all the random ass creatures, like wtf was the scene where Luke milks that one random animal, and later swings across the cliff? I still can't make up my mind for this movie, as there was some parts I really loved but things like the Reylo force texting topless scenes really dragged it down.

[DarthVarkor 384]

Still trying to process my thoughts on the film, was definitely different but...yeah. The action scenes were great though, really loved the Rey/Kylo dynamic.

[jc2 581]

Could I ask a favor for anyone commenting on this thread to quote the Non-spolier heading posted by zybl2; therefore, any person visiting the site would not accidentally run into spoilers merely by going to the homepage of Deadlystream, where the feed is updated by each new thread post.

 

Thanks.

[Mutilator57 140]

Let me say loud and proud, I absolutely hated this movie. Those of you who can cast your mind back two years ago might remember that I was one of the staunchest critics of TFA. However, at least with TFA, the fundamentals weren't terrible. Sure, it was a pale imitation, but a well-crafted one.

This movie...where can one begin?

  Reveal hidden contents

1. I can't remember exactly, but didn't Rey say that Luke cut himself off from the Force? Yet, by the end of the movie, he was astral-projecting himself. Does the Force have an on/off switch or something?

2. Luke milking that space cow was freaking weird.

3. I'm of two minds vis-a-vis Snoke poking fun at Kylo for his stupid helmet. I mean, I love it because it is stupid, but at the same time, these internal potshots made the whole SW universe look like a ridiculous joke.

4. Okay, I know it's been established that small ships can do a lot of damage (looking at you A-wing in RotJ) but apparently, it only takes one bomber to destory a freaking dreadnaught.

5. I know the Republic is destroyed but I find it odd that amongst the wreckage of a galactic government, the Rebels have less ships than they did against the Empire. Why is that? Are more people are scared of the First Order, basically a no-name bastardisation of the Empire than they were of the Empire itself?

6. Leia using the Force to get back to the ship...possibly the most outlandish scene in the whole movie. I'm no expert on space, but when you're in -200 degrees, certain things happen to your body which make it difficult to do things like stay alive, let alone become superman and fly back to your ship.

7. The banter between Hux and Kylo was a over-the-top and actually made them look like whinny neophtyes rather than serious enemies; Hux's reputation as a moustache-twirler is now well-established!

8. I swear, the Porgs have more screentime than Leia does. If they're not crying on screen in front of Chewie, you can't go 5 minutes without hearing their stupid croak - for a moment I thought I was watching Pokemon.

9. Luke's joking was funny but there was too much of it - he's meant to be the most earnest guy in the galaxy who's suddently became the class clown. For example, throwing away his dad's lightsaber, which, if not a priceless jedi relic, is at least a precious family heirloom.

10. The dispute between Kylo and Luke's version of events at the temple was like watching a whodunnit.

11. Luke's hatred of the Jedi was an interesting notion, but it was never really fleshed out - he talks about hypocrisy but never really goes into specifics other than his own person failures. It seems too narcassistic to condemn an entire religion to oblivion for one's own failures, doesn't it?

12. So let me get this straight. Finn and Rose fly all the way *away* from the battle (well not a battle, more like a slow retreat) to this casino planet to find some master slicer, when just as they're about to meet him, they get apprehended by awesome power of the...police? Forgive me, I thought Finn at least was a bit more highly-trained than that, what with being a former stormtrooper and all.

13. Speaking of the slicer guy, what a totally-forgettable perfidious character he is. Now that his role is basically finished, will they even bother bringing him back into the next movie?

14. Apparently, it just takes a rusty metal pick to slice through the shields of a massive Imperial starship.

15. I liked the set-up with the animal racing - it hits home here in Sydney because New South Wales had a big row over Greyhound racing last year. Nevertheless, I think this movie took the PETA animal stuff a bit too far.

16. Remind me why it was necessary for a Vice-Admiral to have purple hair and a flowing dress? I was under the impression that military commanders wore uniforms but hey, I could be wrong. 

17. Why are C-3PO and R2-D2 even in this movie - they play no role and are totally supplanted by BB-8.

18. That Yoda CGI was hideous. There was nothing wrong with the Yoda CGI in the prequels so I don't know why has it's gone backwards in a decade.

19. While we're on the Yoda topic, I know he often lapsed in and out of humour, but his blase attitude to sacred Jedi texts (whose significace was never explained fully anyway) is almost disturbing. I suppose he's trying to make a point, but it could have been done without completing shitting on any shred of seriousness the movie might have had.

20. The Kylo/Rey intergalactic Skype calls were silly, particularly the fact that they can see each other.

21. Snoke freaking dies. So we had two films setting up how this bad guy was sooooo evil and oh wait, he's dead in the second act. An arrogant gnat to the last because when he dies, it's literally because he doesn't have any peripheral vision.

22. While the hyperspace sacrifrice was the best part of the movie, why did it take her 20 minutes and the loss of like half their ships to think of it?

23. We're back to Hoth, err, I mean some other random planet with a Rebel base. Episode V anyone?

24. There was going to be a good scene where Finn might have actually done something worthwhile by ramming his ship into the big laser. Then of course, Rose comes in and ruins that by knocking him out of the way, thus condemning audiences everywhere to another movie with this terrible character.

26. The scene with the MF flying through the crystal cave was a literal copy/paste from RotJ's trench run - it was the same freaking music too!

27. I thought we were going to have a cool duel between Kylo and Luke where the latter could finally do something other than whine and sacrifice himself. Imagine my horror to find out that not only is astral-projecting oneself an actual thing in Star Wars, but that Luke was using it to trick Kylo - I bet Kreia wishes she had this power.

28. So we go from "there are no exits from the base" to "there might be unmapped caves" to "those darn ice-wolfs have to be getting out somewhere". Damnit, which is it 3PO!?

29. Why is Captain Phasma even in this movie? Just to have Finn actually accomplish something by killing her?

30. What was with that ending scene with the comet and the kid? That was one of the cringiest moments in film I have ever seen.

31. Aaaaaand at the end of the movie, we're at the point where no hero is dead - except Luke of course because just giving up into the Force for no reason is totally normaly when everyone in the galaxy is asking for your help.

I could go on and on but I think you guys get the gist.

 

[zbyl2 816]

A lot of those are pretty dumb and TLJ at least did something new and unexpected instead of rehashing TESB like I expected it to.

 

(is that sentence long enough not to show spoilers on the front page?)

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1. It just meant "doesn't use the Force any more", not a KOTOR 2 style "cut off from the Force". He chose to turn away from it, then at the end of the movie he embraced it.

And he was obviously using it during Rey's training as well, how else would he know she's going towards the dark side.

 

2. That was obvious fan service to show where the blue milk comes from, yeah. Didn't really matter and was cool to see Luke's daily routine.

 

3. Does it though? Who wore this kind of helmets for no reason, other than Kylo? Only answer using movie characters, no one else matters.

 

4. The opening was dumb, I agree.

 

5. YES! That's what you get for not explaining the situation in the galaxy in your first movie. Remember when people claimed it'd be explained in a sequel? Hahahaha.

 

6. -200 degrees don't matter when your ally is the Force. It's awesome that they actually show it as mystical, all powerful force, instead of game-y prequely stuff. Nothing is impossible with the Force, as the Luke ending showed.

I find it weird how people complain about flying back to the ship when Luke's projection at the end was far more OP.

 

8. They weren't even acknowledged in dialog. There were two scenes where they even mattered,one where Chewie was eating, the other when he kicked one out off the cockpit. And other than the Chewie eating scene, you wouldn't have to change anything about the movie to remove them, that's how meaningless they were.

 

9. Throwing the lightsaber was terrible.

Other of his jokes landed much better than other characters', though.

 

11. Well he mostly talked about how they let the Emperor take over at the height of their power, more so than his own failures. I agree that it could have been fleshed out more, I wish we spent more time with Luke and gotten rid of most of Space Las Vegas stuff.

 

12. Fin highly trained lol. He does nothing but gets his ass kicked ever since his introduction.

 

13. Meh who cares, he served his role (I'm still happy it wasn't Lando).

 

16. Meh who cares, at least she stood out visually and was easy to tell apart from other randoms.

It is kinda noticeable because of how much attention they pay to ranks in this movie though, yeah.

 

17. 3PO just kinda has to be in Leia's presence (to prevent you from asking why he's not there ). At least they weren't tacked on for no reason like in Rouge One (now THAT was a bad movie)

 

18. They obviously tried to make it look like a puppet and not prequel Yoda. I thought that was interesting touch.

 

19. He didn't. "There was nothing in there except for what Rey already has" was pretty literal. It was never mentioned, but if you paid attention to the ending, you'd notice Jedi books on the Falcon - Rey must have taken them.

 

20. That was freaking cool. Like Luke sensing his friends are in danger just more powerful.

 

21. What two films established him? He had like two scenes in TFA (was he ever even mentioned by any of the good guys?). Then he's the boss in this one, and is killed by his apprentice in a true Sith fashion. Not only was he a non-character, his death actually served a purpose and shocked the audience.

(I feel like he's coming back in the next one anyway. I hope he's not)

 

22. They really should have opened with that.

 

26. I agree, this was just so bad. It really takes you out of the movie.

 

27. They did have a duel, and his astral projection was much more badass than just showing up there for a generic lightsaber fight.

I seriously don't understand how people disliked that. They finally showed how powerful the Force actually is, when someone knows how to use it (previous movies were about untrained Luke and, well, prequels). It was the best moment in the movie.

 

28. How are they supposed to know there are exits if schematics are all the can go on? They can't figure out there's a secret wolf exit until wolfs actually use it.

 

29. Why was she in the last one? At least she did something in this one, even if that something was dying after 2 minutes of screen time.

 

30. That was kinda weird, yeah.

 

31. Yeah I wished Obi-Wan didn't die so he could show up in TESB and ROTJ. WAIT.

 

 

[VarsityPuppet 1,086]

Just saw it. Still processing, but I don't think I liked it.

 

Some of it has to do with subverted expectations, some of it has to do with general dislike of some artistic choices made.

[newbiemodder 37]

Really disappointed. There were parts I enjoyed but overall ~ meh. ⭐️⭐️ out of 4.

 

These last 3 movies are making the prequel trilogy look better and better.

[zbyl2 816]

  On 12/16/2017 at 4:55 AM, newbiemodder said:

These last 3 movies are making the prequel trilogy look better and better.

 

Can you elaborate?

[Hassat Hunter 572]

Well, let's throw in my voice... the voice of utter disappointment.

When coming out of Rogue One, which I loved, I was having high hopes for a "new" Star Wars story, rather than the rehash VII was. To my disappointment, VIII butchers it completely and utterly.

I'm not going into it point per point like you guys, I'll just stick to the major disappointments.

  Reveal hidden contents

*Everyone, even those liking the movie, seem to agree on this; Casino planet sucked. Completely and utterly. It felt 100% earthy. Police rather than Security Forces (TSF anyone)? Really? REALLY? You can't even get these basic SW-premises correct. That was literally 100% earth. Keep that out of my Star Wars.
**Could have saved it with Lando Calrissian, but clearly Disney doesn't care that much about this franchise to do something right.
*Even disregarding the horrid planet Finn literally goes through his TFA loop (flee, fail, be heroic) AGAIN. We went over this already. And it's considerably worse here. Rose is a horrid throwaway character making Jar Jar look great. Really, I prefer him. By a ton.
*Finally for the first and ONLY time Finn has a purpose in this movie, his sacrifice, Rose screws it over. Here was your chance to actually not be 2 people dragging this movie down. Now you're just 2 people dragging the movie down and it would be lifted up 100-fold by being deleted.
*Not to mention their whole horrid plot relied on Poe not being told the plan. Why? Ehm... good question. Pretty much the rampant one in the movie.

Away from that;
*Okay, we kicked the First Order, rebellion is great. We saw this end of TFA. But after the titles, it's no longer. Why? We don't know. Definitely can't be the Order's tactics since they took a sip of the dumb-potion between TFA where they weren't fully 100% stupid, and here were they are. Yet they are winning. Somehow. Uh huh.
*Humour. Too much, too bad. I liked several, but it was just too much. Star Wars contains humour, but this became just a parody.
*Snoke is build up in TFA. Tossed out in a whim. Nobody cares apparently.
*Same for Rey. Oh, that thousand year old prophecy about the strongest Jedi in the galaxy and all. Well, toss that out since 2 generations after they get 10x stronger. Without training 2 movies like both Anakin and Luke did.
*Did Luke train her at all? Of course not. Why did we even find Luke. I... really still have no idea after the whole movie. To spread hope? Through the hidden camera at the battle-field that programmed a battle live across the galaxy or something since the Rebellion certainly was in no shape to put the message forth. Somehow.
*Luke literally doing the Batman vs. Superman thing where Batman just had to pre-emptively kill Superman cause "he *could* be evil. No sign, but he could, so he had to die." Not that that matches Luke nor Batman but screw that logic.
*Ren was apparently lured by Snoke. How, when, why? Oh right, still disposable character, can't actually go in depth on anything important.
*Phasma whatever is back. She's got a bigger role no... oh wait, no she's dead... nevermind.

*** WHY DID NOBODY HYPERSPACE NUKE THE DEATH STAR. ENEMY FLEETS. KOTORS INFINITE FACTORY? MALACHOR? Oh right, cause in all previous movies going to hyperspace near a Star Destroyer just pushed them away. Way to retro the lore, badly.

*Kylo is still this unhinged teen. No progression made at the end. I liked his scenes with Rey, but once Snoke was dead, he pretty much devolved into the raving madman lunatic again that does NOT make a proper leader and makes one fearful for IX (all my interest in it is dead). Hux hasn't fared much better being the Empire lunatic. How did they beat the New Republic again. I know they said they destroyed it at the start, but really, those 5 planets in TFA were the New Republic? Did this galaxy shrink when I wasn't looking?
*That fuel plot was just so... ugh. Cringe.
*That Force Cave was just utterly pointless visual fluff. What did we learn? Nothing. What was the point. There wasn't, much like most of this movie. Just throwing around "Who cares. Shut off your brain and watch these explosions." "But why?" "Who cares why. EXPLOSIONS!"
*Yes, AT-AT's and AT-AT+. What do you mean, they do literally nothing the whole fight, not even move? What?
*Flying Leia. Really? Really. What. The. F...

EDIT:
*Tracking device led to absolutely nowhere. Not only could it not resolve any TFA points, it can't even do it's own consistency well.
*Aside from Finn and Rose being 100% cut making the movie better the Splicer (oh wait, no, I mean code breaker. Can't go all Star Wars in our Star Wars movie) tells the First Order the whole plan Poe learns on ANOTHER SHIP independent from Finn and Rose. Ooookay, how? All he knows, like Finn is that they break the tracker, jump 6m, jolly jolly. Where did he get his magical knowledge from? Bad storytelling of course, like the whole rest of this movie.

Now for the good stuff;
*I liked most of the interactions of Rey, Luke and Kylo.
*Some of the humour did work. Not the "Yo Momma" stuff though.
*Pretty.
*Kylo and Rey versus the Royal Guard was bad ass.
*They actually took some "balance" lessons from KOTOR2. Butchering them aside.
*I still like space battles (WHERE ARE THE Y-WINGS. WHAT ARE THESE BOMBERS?). You know, the actual battles. Not the South Park car-chase with the copcars and Cartmans wooden box.
*Finn's sacrifice was going great. Till they butchered that.
*I actually really like the crystal fox design. Yes, we're scrapping the barrel here.

That's all that comes to mind to me right now. Really really disappointing, and I doubt I'll watch IX in the cinema. My interest in Star Wars movies is just... gone. And that's a shame since Rogue One was FREAKING AWESOME.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Sith Holocron

[revan21 22]

I'm trying to not include too many spoilers, but there are some so be warned.

Just saw and I was overwhelmed. so much stuff happened in this movie, so much of it was bold. The first ~30 minutes or so had some really silly moments, but I'm glad these got all put at the start of the movie so that they don't interfere with once the plot picks up pace. I also really liked how Kylo Ren changed. Him being a Darth Vader impersonator in TFA because he was still conflicted about his alignment finally got acknowledged and dealt with in a good way.

A lot in this movie surprised me and the few scenes that payed homage to Episode 5 and 6 really hit the spot too. 
 
I think the best way to describe this movie is by quoting the General Grievous meme: "Rian Johnson, you are a bold one !"
I would give it an 85/100. I still disappointed me a bit but the silly scenes and some bad effects like 

  Reveal hidden contents

Yoda who looked like he was made out of plastic

 

It also kinda irked me how some stuff only made sense if you read some recent novels or comics like "From a certain point of view" or that Leia novel. 

But at the same time the movie had two scenes that almost made me cry. 

[zbyl2 816]

  On 12/16/2017 at 5:12 PM, Hassat Hunter said:

When coming out of Rogue One, which I loved,

I heard this really cool quote in one of (very positive) TLJ's reviews: "And I bet a lot of your Star Wars loving friends will be like "hmmm I didn't like it", and if they say that, I will appreciate that if you could ask them if they liked Rogue One. And I promise you that 80% of the time they will say they loved it, and they liked that it was edgy and fights were cool and the walkers on the beach were so awesome."

[Hassat Hunter 572]

*I liked the duality of the Rebellion (their willingness to assassinate, just not pure good guys).

*Darth Vader, obviously

*The final battles in space and on the ground.

*The everyone dies ending or that they did all that to never get any recognition, just for the good of the galaxy.

*I liked the floor battle on the Crystal planet.

*How it explained the weakness of the Death Star (not that by new lore we couldn't have just hyperspaced through it making it all pointless)

*It was rather refreshing to have no Jedi to speak off, even if we got some Force Sensitives.

*The droid was actually funny.

 

Dislikes:

*I am one with the force, the force is one with me...I am one with the force, the force is one with me...I am one with the force, the force is one with me...I am one with the force, the force is one with me...I am one with the force, the force is one with me...

SHUT UP! SSSSSHHHHHHUUUUTT UP!

*The guy they look up on the Crystal planet is kind of wasted and doesn't go very far and then he dies as the planet explodes.

*CGI Leia

 

Fit the mold?

[revan21 22]

  On 12/16/2017 at 9:24 PM, Hassat Hunter said:

*How it explained the weakness of the Death Star (not that by new lore we couldn't have just hyperspaced through it making it all pointless)

I doubt hyperspace jumping against something as big as the Death Star with a warship would have the same effect as it had with the Supremacy (which was pretty thin) in TLJ. 

Hyperspace has always been whatever the plot needed it to be. Rogue One already broke the rules by allowing the crew to jump off Jakku while still being affected by that planet's gravity.  

[zbyl2 816]

I liked the duality of the rebellion but that never went everywhere, then you list a lot of fluff that sometimes was cool, but did nothing for the movie as a whole (Vader's scene is a perfect example of that), but you skipped unlikable characters with no personality, stormtroopers more incompetent than ever, lack of any kind of meaningful or interesting story, lack of any kind of stakes or suspense because we know they're gonna get a thing before they even know what that thing is and a terrible, uncharismatic lead actress, surrounded by useless fan service (Vader being the prime example, though things like a mention of Kenobi and random 3PO cameo were much worse), all to fill in an imaginary plot hole that ANH already covered ("its defenses are designed around a large scale assault, a small one man fighter should be able to penetrate it" was enough, and really didn't have to be explained).

 

Whole movie was a perfect example of fan service and telling stories of things we know, which was indeed the opposite of how The Last Jedi played with everyone's expectations and tried to do something new.

[1Leonard 134]

  On 12/16/2017 at 8:48 PM, zbyl2 said:

 

I heard this really cool quote in one of (very positive) TLJ's reviews: "And I bet a lot of your Star Wars loving friends will be like "hmmm I didn't like it", and if they say that, I will appreciate that if you could ask them if they liked Rogue One. And I promise you that 80% of the time they will say they loved it, and they liked that it was edgy and fights were cool and the walkers on the beach were so awesome."

 

Jenny Nicholson, right?

I've seen this in my circle of friends as well, I could go into why I did not like Rogue One but that's not what this post is for.

 

As for TLJ, it was okay, there were some very good things about it and some things I didn't really get.

 

First of, the Finn/Rose/Casino subplot was really slow. I'd rather they'd cut that in order to focus on Rey/Luke/Kylo, which was way more interesting throughout the film. 

 

The throne room scene and subsequent fight scene were very well done and excitingly choreographed and filmed.

 

I liked the film for playing with and subverting the audience's expactations. After the TFA people wanted something new and fresh, they got it. 

 

I liked that Rey is a nobody. If she was another Skywalker or Kenobi it would make the galaxy feel really small.  Other families are allowed to be Jedi and heroes as well, right?

 

I did not care for purplehair one bit and I believe her role and sacrifice should have gone to Admiral Ackbar. (Killing the First Order's ship with a... trap, perhaps?)

 

Leia spacewalk was stupid and unexplained and I wish they wouldn't have done it. It felt as a good place to kill the character. 

 

I liked this film for deepening the audience's understanding of the story's universe. Viewing the trilogy as a three act structure the second act is ideal for doing just that (see Ep. V with Yoda training Luke). In this film they went further into what the Force is and how it always strives for Balance (Prequel Prophecy, anyone?). Plus they gave us insight into Ben's motivation, part of me wanted Rey to join him. However the movie dropped the ball with one of its biggest subjects: Snoke. By killing him they made it impossible to answer the question of who/what he is. IF this gets explained in the next movie, audience won't care because he is already dead. IF he is somehow still alive in some form it lessens the impact of his death. It's a catch-22.

 

I respect this film for taking chances. Some worked out, some did not.

[zbyl2 816]

  On 12/16/2017 at 9:55 PM, 1Leonard said:

 

Jenny Nicholson, right?

 

That is correct (edit some more lines so spoiler won't show up on front page)

 

  On 12/16/2017 at 9:55 PM, 1Leonard said:

I liked that Rey is a nobody. If she was another Skywalker or Kenobi it would make the galaxy feel really small.  Other families are allowed to be Jedi and heroes as well, right?

I didn't even think about who she is after TFA, then when Kylo revealed them to be "nobodies" I figured he's lying and it's a set up for a different answer in the sequel.

Apparently, Johnson confirmed that it was honest so that kinda sucks.

[Stormie97 253]

How I felt after watching the movie :

 

*R. Johnson tries to kill the franchise*

Star Wars : "The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed, but I assure you my resolve has never been stronger."

 

I wasn't especially amazed by TFA even if I did think it was good, but I really hope Abrams will find a way to fix the mess Ryan Johnson left behind in terms plot.

 

• Snoke, most powerful being ever? Nah, let's have his apprentice will him in the most ridiculous way.
• Let's create a thick mystery around Rey's lineage. Nah, she's just nobody who turns out to be the most powerful Jedi ever without any training.
• Luke, who brought one of the most corrupted and evil force user back to the light, considers, even for a brief second, to kill the son of his sister and his best friend because he senses darkness in him.
• Luke, after Kylo destroyed the new Jedi Order, exiles to an unknown planet and leaves a map that leads there in R2. Nah, he went there because he wanted to die and nobody to find him.
• No attempt has been made to make the First Order look even a little less ridiculous and incompetent.
• The hole plot of Finn and Rose could have been avoided if Amiral Holdo cared enough to share the plan to the crew or even just Poe Dameron.

 

There's a bunch of things this movie did incredibly right, but I can't forgive those poor mistakes. I didn't care about Rey being a Mary Sue in TFA because I just assumed it would be given a reasonable why in the next movie.

 

Shame, Disney, shame.

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 98]

Wanted to resist as much as possible discussing this movie, but, couldn't fight it enough.
 
Let me first say, I don't *hate* TLJ in it's entirety, but it is on the crap side of OK -- probably 6/10 from me.
 
First off, Rogue One is a "Star Wars Story". Yes I liked it because it was different, but, that's not my point. My point is that it was intentionally branded a certain way so as to make it part of the same universe, and story, but, NOT part of the trilogies. Further, if you set up a trilogy of films a certain way as in TFA, then regardless if the other films are made by different directors, they have an obligation to stick to what was setup in the first film. Rian Johnson clearly wants to tell his OWN Star Wars trilogy and he decided he was going to sh*t on what JJA established in the first film.
 
He clearly wants to make his own trilogy as he tried to not just do the second film of the trilogy but fit in enough content for the third as well into TLJ -- why it is such a mess of a film as it has too many narrative threads trying to be told. Which is why he was offered a trilogy of his own and JJA is going to finish off this one. That is unless it was simply a way of getting him off of these films once it dawned on them what he was doing -- killing JJA's vision of the trilogy along with what aspects of Star Wars that Lucas setup as canon.
 
To list the things I hated...

 

 

• All the marvel one-liner self-referential humor that got old very quickly
• Snoke made out to be a powerful dark-side user yet easily bested by his apprentice; we still have no idea where this guy came from, who he actually is
• The very slow space chase that doesn't make much sense, even for Star Wars
• The whole casino world story thread that reminded me of the worst parts from The Phantom Menace
• Leia deciding she is actually going to use her force sensitivity finally to force pull herself out of the cold vacuum of space -- maybe plausible but was rather jarring
• Becoming what amounts to a Jedi Knight (if not Master) without any real training.
• Luke force projecting to battle Kylo -- I'm ok with how he was portray for the most part, a reluctant Master, but not happy about the battle and the way he died; would have been better if he died fighting Kylo in battle like Obi-Won did with Vader.
• The whole Rey goes into the dark-side anus on the Island and finds the mirror scene with what amounts to a voice over explanation of what's happening for the benefit of the audience -- I seem to recall something about: "show don't tell."
• We learn that Rey comes from nothing -- I'm ok with it but would have liked it handled better so that it had more gravitas.
• Rose
• The plush-toy penguin creatures -- I think Chewie should have finished what he started and eaten them... all!
• The Jedi book and tree burning... by Yoda of all Jedi Masters.

Lastly, I can understand why Snoke was killed off in the second film, as they want to make it about Rey and Kylo. But he had so little time on screen and died in an idiotic way that doesn't fit with what I expect from the Star Wars universe. They should have had more time with him, so that we could get some idea of who he was. My opinion is that he was Darth Sidious' master (Darth Plagueis or not) until his apprentice killed him, or thought he had in that due to his power and knowledge of the dark-side he managed to survive, though horribly deformed. He abandons the Sith tradition -- why he lacks Sith eyes, as he is more a balanced force user -- and watches the rise of the Sith and their fall, from the shadows. He admires what his old apprentice had achieved, but, he thinks he can do better -- being "wise" and all.

 

Then have him die in an unexpected way, namely, he gets taken out by the hyperspace suicide ship missile -- even there are reasons why this may not be plausible. It's something that even with all his power, he can't escape, and, I would have made it Leia the one who pilots the ship in order to get back at Snoke for taking her son away from him and twisting him into Kylo Ren. This happens near the end of the film, and sets up Kylo as the dark-side master leading into the third film. Luke can then die as well when he sacrifices himself to become a force spirit, leaving Rey THE LAST JEDI even though Luke will show up in the next film to guide her from the force.

 

My two cents on it.

 

 

Won't add anything more, as many of you have stated other good reasons why this movie was meh. I'm glad that I saw it at a regular cinema instead of wasting money on IMAX 3D. Will likely watch it again but once I can do so for free.

[Hassat Hunter 572]

  On 12/16/2017 at 9:43 PM, revan21 said:

Rogue One already broke the rules by allowing the crew to jump off Jakku while still being affected by that plnaets gravity.

I don't think Jakku appeared in Rogue One. Do you mean TFA where they went to hyperspace in a hangar just outside of Jakku (where all this happened and Hux/Kylo's ship RIGHT THERE ignored all of that happening), which already indeed was an indication Disney was messing with any pre-establisted rules.

 

  On 12/16/2017 at 9:44 PM, zbyl2 said:

I liked the duality of the rebellion but that never went everywhere

Much more than the 18h chase in a single system that pretty much the entire TLJ. Heck, in that 18h Rey did her whole "training" and caught up with them all. Literally.

Heck, this writing is getting worse and worse everytime you think about ANYTHING happening in it.

  Quote

then you list a lot of fluff that sometimes was cool, but did nothing for the movie as a whole (Vader's scene is a perfect example of that)

Sounds like TLJ and the Guards fight. Except in much lower quantities IMO

  Quote

but you skipped unlikable characters with no personality

Somehow with more character and backstory than the new trilogy managed in TWO MOVIES. Not a single throw-away like Snoke or Phasma, or Rose, or Pink-Hair Woman. Or Mas either.

  Quote

stormtroopers more incompetent than ever

The First Order *somehow* managed to conquer the entire galaxy between the 0 minutes inbetween VII and VIII, yet also turned from genioune threat to hilarious over-the-top villain that couldn't kill a fly. And killed off their ONLY leader that wasn't a teen with rage issues. Good luck selling any threat in IX like that.

  Quote

lack of any kind of meaningful or interesting story

18h chase with no progression whatsoever comes to mind.

  Quote

lack of any kind of stakes or suspense because we know they're gonna get a thing before they even know what that thing is

Literally nobody dying in TLJ made any impact since all of them where throwaways. Infact the stakes or "suspense" was all annoyance at them missing yet another opportunity to actually add value to their characters.

Don't even get me STARTED on Finn's sacrifice, the first actual stake/suspension added in the movie (after 2 hours mind you) ruined again, per point.

  Quote

and a terrible, uncharismatic lead actress

While Rey isn't uncharasmatic, her ability to literally gain lvl 50 from just typing IneedForce in a dropbox is just... terrible and making her feel like a cardboard cutout char.

And they ruined their opportunity to actually give it somewhat of a resolve, going the "nope, she's just awesome and able to do anything and never fails and literally better than JEDI JESUS cause reasons"

Sorry, can't get more terrible than that.

  Quote

surrounded by useless fan service (Vader being the prime example, though things like a mention of Kenobi and random 3PO cameo were much worse)

I take it over TLJ's forced humour.

[Hassat Hunter 572]

  Quote

all to fill in an imaginary plot hole that ANH already covered ("its defenses are designed around a large scale assault, a small one man fighter should be able to penetrate it" was enough, and really didn't have to be explained).

Someone should tell the First Order when they put their GIGANTIC ship with 12 anti-fighter guns. 12! TLJ literally spawns plotholes out of thin air, and facepalms are inevitable. 12 man. TWELVE.

Who DESIGNED that thing?

 

  Quote

Whole movie was a perfect example of fan service and telling stories of things we know, which was indeed the opposite of how The Last Jedi played with everyone's expectations and tried to do something new.

Rogue One did something new, loved it. TLJ didn't do "new" as much as it just crapped all over Star Wars as we know it, and *literally* added in Earth at one point. Expectations where CREATED by TFA, actual plotpoints we expected resolution. If toying with their own setup we expected resolution to is "playing with everyone's expectations" I just call it what it is; Writing a story and then just throwing it away. Did you think KOTOR2 would be better if it went, oh well, KOTOR1 was all about Revan, now we're 5 years later... Bastila stabbed him, the end. Well, here's our new story, 18 hours of Malachor V slogfest would you also go "This is great!" Cause that's how it feels like.

 

  On 12/16/2017 at 9:55 PM, 1Leonard said:

I liked that Rey is a nobody. If she was another Skywalker or Kenobi it would make the galaxy feel really small. Other families are allowed to be Jedi and heroes as well, right?

So... it's a good thing the guy the prophecies tell of for THOUSANDS of years is outclassed in every way 2 generations later by a nobody literally tenfold. Without any training.

And that's... good?

 

Why did they even prophecise the Skywalkers if within 2 generations their power was peanuts. They should have made a prophecy about the power of Rey.

 

I would be fine with a new powerful Jedi out of thin air if it took like 4000 years after the original trilogy. Not when the original Skywalkers weren't even dead and literally made of Force, literally Jesus, and this girl just stamps all on Jesus. I don't think Jesus got surpassed these 2017 years right? Now imagine 40-50 years, and you got Rey.

 

  Quote

Viewing the trilogy as a three act structure the second act is ideal for doing just that (see Ep. V with Yoda training Luke).

But tell me... what is left for IX. Why should I care about the next movie. Cause... I don't.

The First Order only exist out of immature teennage rageboys who are about as threatening as an Ewok. Heck Ewoks are more treatening. It would be like the Empire run by Gungans. Yeah, that's scary right?

On the other hand the Rebellion consists out of... well; Finn and Rose who are literally pointless after VII (Here's a prediction; In IX Finn runs, gets stopped and turns a hero. Cause we haven't seen that arch twice yet). Rey is literally the boring super woman who there is no interest to watch since she wont fail anyway, she can't. Such tension *yawn*. Leia dies offscreen. And I feel Poe literally should have died off in VII already to not cheapen Finn's arch. And he was kind of a pointless tool in VIII too. Only character making any progression in the 18h slogfest race, but a character I never liked throughout either.

So... Chewie. Watch IX only for Chewie. Eeeeh... no?

The ending here really felt like an ending. First Order is a joke. They all resolved what ridicilous plotpoints this movie had, everyone interesting is dead. What literally should IX tell? Doesn't feel like there's another movie left there from the non-existent plot left. All got killed. All that's left is facing Kylo. And that sounds terribly dull since he's a horrible antagonist.

Lackey, okay. Antagonist... No, nope. Nuhu. No way.

 

There is literally ZERO incentive to watch IX from this movie. Even if it didn't crush your Star Wars soul.

[Guest Qui-Gon Glenn]

Stop giving them money. The sadness is enough, don't compound it.

 

I hate Disney.

[1Leonard 134]

  On 12/18/2017 at 1:59 AM, Hassat Hunter said:

 

So... it's a good thing the guy the prophecies tell of for THOUSANDS of years is outclassed in every way 2 generations later by a nobody literally tenfold. Without any training.

And that's... good?

 

Why did they even prophecise the Skywalkers if within 2 generations their power was peanuts. They should have made a prophecy about the power of Rey.

 

I would be fine with a new powerful Jedi out of thin air if it took like 4000 years after the original trilogy. Not when the original Skywalkers weren't even dead and literally made of Force, literally Jesus, and this girl just stamps all on Jesus. I don't think Jesus got surpassed these 2017 years right? Now imagine 40-50 years, and you got Rey.

 

This is a misrepresentation of the prophecy in the prequel, which is confirmed by Lucas to ultimately be about Anakin, not Luke.

Besides that, being the Chosen One has never stated to bring a large amount of power with it, only that they'd bring balance to the Force, which is not something directly correlated to being an all-powerful being. 

 

(Btw, I think the prophecy is a ridiculous plot element, even after the three prequels we know more about Snoke than about the prophecy, which is saying something.)

 

I agree with you on the fact that Rey is incredibly powerful for someone whose Force has just Awakened. There seems to be a general inflation in Force Power if you look at the production order of the movies, with each movie having to outdo the previous one. Of course, this also corresponds with cheaper technologies and better CGI. Episode I-II-III can be explained by the jedi having trained for a long time and being actual masters of the Force. Episode VII and VIII don't have an in-universe explanation for some of the feats that are shown yet. Maybe there will be, I hope there will be, because if there isn't one it would be detrimental to the trilogy as a whole. 

 

  On 12/18/2017 at 1:59 AM, Hassat Hunter said:

But tell me... what is left for IX. Why should I care about the next movie. Cause... I don't.

[Rage cut for clarity (if you want to make your actual points you are still free to do so!)]

There is literally ZERO incentive to watch IX from this movie. Even if it didn't crush your Star Wars soul.

 

This is a pretty emotional point and I have trouble understanding what you mean through all the rage so I'll only talk about the incentive to watch Episode IX.

Seeing as how you talk about why you feel why you don't want to see IX, I'd like to tell you why I feel I still do.

 

TLJ has mainly been about failure: Luke's failure to train new jedi, Finn/Rose's failure to find the codebreaker and save the resistance, Poe's failure to follow orders, Leia/Hondo's failed leadership, Snoke's failure to see Kylo Ren's betrayal coming, Rey/Kylo's failure to turn each other to their respective sides, even though they understand each other better now.

 

To me, it is interesting to see the outcome of all these failures, because you are supposed to become better from failing, which is the exact point Yoda makes as well.

 

I expect IX to have a timeskip in order for both the Resistance and the First Order to reform themselves in some sort.

We see in the end of VIII that Rey and Kylo still have their Force Bond which can mean several things (is Snoke still alive? Was the bond not is doing? If so, whose was it?)

We know Rey and Kylo will meet again to decide the fates of both the resistance and the First Order

We know Rey has taken the Jedi Books with her onto the Millenium Falcon, could this save the Jedi?

We now know that the Force strives for a balance, what does that entail? What are the consequences of this?

We still need to know why Rey is so powerful (In my opinion this needs to be answered, could also be connected to the above)

 

However, it's okay if you don't like this movie, nobody forces you to. Nobody forces you to watch the next one either.