Making Darth Nihilus a hardcore badass Sith Lord

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

In chat, we had a quick brainstorming session for how we could potentially make Darth Nihilus more of a badass in the game.

 

The boss fight is criminally underpowered, so we want to restore him to his rightful, Sithy glory.

 

Stats increases are obviously going to happen at this point. But we were considering giving him a unique trait about Darth Nihilus that would make him very difficult to kill.

 

So what would you like to see in an Improved Darth Nihilus?

[milestails 264]

Having him drain Mandalore and Visas completely so that you face him alone would be a start.

 

Oh and just to present the other side of the debate for completeness sakes:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/32523-why-make-darth-nihilus-so-weak/

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

Having him drain Mandalore and Visas completely so that you face him alone would be a start.

Then how would you be able to have Visas sacrifice herself?

[milestails 264]

Lol Shows how long it's been since I've done a playthrough.

[Vriff 21]

Then how would you be able to have Visas sacrifice herself?

Simply do it after that conversation?

 

The "face them alone" thing is sound, but maybe a little over done considering you already have to face all the other sith lords alone. I would suggest making it like the Malak fight, Nihilus can consume his bridge officers/slaves.

[Malkior 476]

I vote for the notion of him converting physical damage into Force Points that was discussed in the thread. I would also say that maybe giving him "phases" in battle where he Force Drains your party and stuns them for a few rounds would also be a cool unique ability.

 

I think there should be a higher focus on fighting him with the assumption that just blindly hitting him with a lightsaber will quickly lead you to your doom.

 

--

 

Force Crush would also be a cool "focused attack" for him to have.

 

(Also mentioned in the thread)

 

Maybe for an AOE that isn't Drain, Force Blight??

[Kexikus 995]

I vote for the notion of him converting physical damage into Force Points that was discussed in the thread. I would also say that maybe giving him "phases" in battle where he Force Drains your party and stuns them for a few rounds would also be a cool unique ability.

 

I think there should be a higher focus on fighting him with the assumption that just blindly hitting him with a lightsaber will quickly lead you to your doom.

 

I like the idea but that could lead to a lot of frustration for people that rely on their sabers to do damage as is often the case for lightside players I think.

 

Also, last time I played TSLRCM, Nihilus was actually the hardest boss fight in my eyes xD

[Fair Strides 509]

An idea I came up with in the Chat while talking to LIliArch and Malkior:

 

"You know, one way to make the Nihilus fight harder would be to make his Force Zombies attack you as you're walking up to Nihilus before the fight (or in the middle of the fight, or at the end).
And buff them. :D"

[Constar 23]

Those 2 ideas are awesome and go in the same direction: 
 

Simply do it after that conversation?

 

The "face them alone" thing is sound, but maybe a little over done considering you already have to face all the other sith lords alone. I would suggest making it like the Malak fight, Nihilus can consume his bridge officers/slaves.

 

 

 

An idea I came up with in the Chat while talking to LIliArch and Malkior:

 

"You know, one way to make the Nihilus fight harder would be to make his Force Zombies attack you as you're walking up to Nihilus before the fight (or in the middle of the fight, or at the end).
And buff them. :D"

 

Maybe, after he drops below a specific number of HP, he retreats into a "force bubble/shield" to heal himself/drain life from his minions. While this is happening you have to fend off some of his zombies that are attacking you.

 

About this:
 

 

Having him drain Mandalore and Visas completely so that you face him alone would be a start.

 

Oh and just to present the other side of the debate for completeness sakes:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/32523-why-make-darth-nihilus-so-weak/

When his health drops to 0, a cutscene starts: he drains them unconcious and gets like half his health back. Then the final duel starts between the exile and the lord of hunger. For more epicness he could also not use his lightsaber till this last part and only fight with force powers in the earlier stage/stages of the fight.

[djnugent 34]

I agree - Force Zombie minion battle is in order. 

 

Ideas:

 

1. Uses maybe 4-8 minions who surround him purely for the purpose of replenishing his health when he drops to a certain HP

     - maybe do it so the first time Nihilus drains 1 minion, then 2 minions, then 3 and so on...to indicate that he needs to draw in more the longer the fight goes

 

2. In the game, the animations showed Nihilus using something that looked like a cross between Force Storm and Drain Life. Is there a way to give him the ability to attack with both at the same time? That would be devastating. 

 

3. Um..Force Camoflauge maybe? Invisibility always sucks...

 

4. Just being around him could also trigger 'Poison' type stat drops - if Nihilus is the consumer of life, than it would kind of make sense if being in his presence alone would be slowly killing you

 

 

:-) Thanks for readin! 

[ChrisC26 12]

Have the Force Zombies attack Visas and Mandalore. They are nearly completely force resistant and are quite toughened against other attacks as well. You deal with Nihilus while they deal with the force zombies.

[InSidious 237]

There's a good argument that he's meant to be a bit weak against the Exile...

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

There's a good argument that he's meant to be a bit weak against the Exile...

True. However, it seems there's an interest in it so it may as well be met - even if we two won't be using it.

[scoutception 17]

There's a good argument that he's meant to be a bit weak against the Exile...

Yeah, Nihilus's attempt at draining the Exile fails and actually weakens him, which is supposed to explain why he's so wimpy. Even so, considering this is a guy who has devoured entire planets, I'd say it shouldn't weaken him to the point of being a pushover.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

There's a good argument that he's meant to be a bit weak against the Exile...

Oh believe me, I'm fully aware of this. But as scoutception explained, that doesn't mean he has to be pathetic

 

For a guy that can eat entire planets, and hold an entire dead ship full of dead soldiers together, he should be able to put up more of a fight.

[Pavijan357 11]

I completely support idea behind this.
 
Yes, he is weakened by Exile, but the point is that he was weakened enough just to be BEATABLE, not to be a pushover like he is right now.
 
Without weakening Nihilus Exile wouldn't have a slightest chance of opposing him, with that is he is forced into "traditional" combat, but even then he should present an epic challenge.
 
I get the feeling that first idea was that you should face him alone and later they added companions into the fight, but forgot to update him to this new situation (and therefore lack of meaning for sacrifice of Visas), or that this Nihilus was just a placeholder and in the all hurry to finish a game they forgot tho replace him with real one.
(Those are just my crazy theories, but seriously there is something really not done right here..)
 
Anyway, he should be buffed seriously, but please stay clear of bringing zombies in to the fight, it just wouldn't look right. They serve their purpose to look spooky and bring atmosphere on the bridge, making them fight you -  would just look ridiculous.
They do not even seem good for draining, after all they look like a dead husks without meaningful life force left in them.
 
Also, did you consider making Nihilus drop Mandalore out of the fight?
A convenient way to do this could be that after Nihilus Force Crushes them all, he falls to the ground and remains laying until the end of the fight, while other Exile and Visas remain standing.
 
He just seemed out of the place there, and frankly story-wise wouldn't be of much help while fighting Nihilus, and he can wake up and join Exile and Visas after those two finish him. Apart of making the fight a bit more challenging , it  would be cool alternative place for starting that Visas / Mandalore convo when he gets up.
 
So my ideas are:
1) Buff his stats (of course)
2) Drop Mandalore before the fight by Nihilus
3) Make him stun Visas and use Death Field at you two at some some phases of the fight
 
So, what do you think?

[Kainzorus Prime 205]

Wasn't there the thing where Tobin's and Nihilus stats were switched? Change those back and then buff Nihilus further.

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

Also, did you consider making Nihilus drop Mandalore out of the fight?

A convenient way to do this could be that after Nihilus Force Crushes them all, he falls to the ground and remains laying until the end of the fight, while other Exile and Visas remain standing. [snip]  it  would be cool alternative place for starting that Visas / Mandalore convo when he gets up.

My interest in this thread is purely mercenary as I'm only hoping for one thing in particular to be changed - that aforementioned cutscene. But I see the above quote as the way to do it.

 

I hate the various cut-scenes used in TSLRCM on the Ravager that show Mandalore getting injured after the fight with Nihilus. (I mean - c'mon - one version even had him taken out by a landmine on the bridge.)   If Nihilus does take Mandalore out of the fight, just have the cutscene between Nihilus and Mandalore taken place with Mandalore already prone on the ground.

[TheDarkChocolateJedi 17]

When he is hurt he calls over all those brainwashed slaves to attack you, which gives him time to recover, then he comes back as soon as you have defeated the slaves.

[Jorak Uln 458]

Here is an unorthodox idea to make the game much harder:

 

In the request thread, I posted an observation when roaming through Kotor Tool a while ago -

under bonus feat there was "Automatic Quicken Spell", a feat that eclipses the 1 round waiting after an attack.

 

I don't know if that feat is a relic of Neverwinter Nights, and I don't care either - but needless to say that it would open revolutionary possibilities in combat.

 

Imagine real time attacks from player and attacker , much more diversity in combat if only given to extraordinary opponents like Nihilus, Malak....

 

I really would love to see this happen, as I'm sure a whole bunch of new gameplay/balancing mod would come after immediately.

[Xuul 224]

Here is an unorthodox idea to make the game much harder:

 

In the request thread, I posted an observation when roaming through Kotor Tool a while ago -

under bonus feat there was "Automatic Quicken Spell", a feat that eclipses the 1 round waiting after an attack.

 

I don't know if that feat is a relic of Neverwinter Nights, and I don't care either - but needless to say that it would open revolutionary possibilities in combat.

 

Imagine real time attacks from player and attacker , much more diversity in combat if only given to extraordinary opponents like Nihilus, Malak....

 

I really would love to see this happen, as I'm sure a whole bunch of new gameplay/balancing mod would come after immediately.

That sounds very interesting.  

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Wasn't there the thing where Tobin's and Nihilus stats were switched? Change those back and then buff Nihilus further.

Already fixed in TSLRCM.

[coolphoton1234 3]

I always sort of pictured Traya, Sion, and Nihilus (respectively) as Sentinal, Guardian, and Consular just from the descriptions from Kreia gives. (Never mind the actual classes.). I was really expecting a force drain, terror, plague spamming nightmare boss the first time I fought him. Perhaps add the plague debuff as an environmental effect (is that even possible?) in the boss room?

[ChrisC26 12]

IMO. Traya is definitely a Consular. Sion is probably a Guardian. Nihilus is a bit harder to pin so I'd just say he is the more Sentinel type.

Back on topic, I would participate more than giving out ideas for this mod but the most I would be able to do at this point is buff him on the .UTC

[coolphoton1234 3]

IMO. Traya is definitely a Consular. Sion is probably a Guardian. Nihilus is a bit harder to pin so I'd just say he is the more Sentinel type.

 

Back on topic, I would participate more than giving out ideas for this mod but the most I would be able to do at this point is buff him on the .UTC

Traya's harping on 'balance this' and 'temperance that' struck me as a sentinel mindset rather than a consular one. Nihilus is a suppose to be essentially the opposite of the 'oneness'(Jedi letzt stil, one winged angel, etc.). He is not so much a person as an event. That level of power screams consular with 40+ wisdom and charisma. That or 'welcome to R'lyeh'.