Why it's not okay to upload someone else's mods

[ChrisC26 12]

lol at first when I saw VP's quote "TLDR" I thought all three of you were blatantly being sarcastic and patronizing Uhuru's post. Then I read it too and realized you mean it just wasn't worth quoting the whole thing lol.... I was a bit ashamed for a second thinking that the guys I'm on the same (general) side as would just ignore his post till I realized what you three meant was honest.

Now first @ Uhuru, that was a great post. Luckily Valve can only do that when the mods are of Source games or any games they Inherently own AFAIK.

Secondly, I think it's safe to say that we will win this Steam thing in the short run and long run because A) We are a dedicated, persistent community who respect eachother's work and will unite (for the most part) in these situations and B)We can just flag the stuff out of this mother.

Thirdly, I once again want to try and bring the point back to mods that truly are in danger of being lost because the author has been absent. I WANT to respect others' work.

Now most mod author's I have seen have said ~"Please do not re-upload this mod without the author's consent" and there are some author's who will just say ~"Go ahead and upload this anywhere so long as proper rights are given!" and thats fine and all, to each their own.

But I don't think I've seen an author address the possibility that they might be absent in the future for an extended period of time in which their mod might be in danger of being lost in space. And for these mods, I just want them to be reuploaded (and if possible under their name somehow cause I know some forums where admins/mods have access to the creation of "dummy" accounts) and a disclaimer like

"THE AUTHOR OF THIS MOD HAS NOT BEEN ACTIVE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME AND AFTER FAILED ATTEMPTS TO CONTACT SAID AUTHOR, THE MOD WILL BE UPLOADED SO AS TO SAVE THE AUTHOR'S WORK AND SO THAT OTHERS CAN ENJOY THE WORK AS PREVIOUSLY INTENDED BY THE AUTHOR. IF THE AUTHOR DOES BECOME ACTIVE AGAIN AND REQUESTS THE MOD BE TAKEN DOWN FOR ANY REASON WHAT SO EVER. IT WILL BE DONE SO IMMEDIATELY"

[1Leonard 134]

Just woke up and saw that he started selectively deleting posts, including removing link to the original file. Luckily I archived everything so we now have proof. Link to my post: Look at the difference between the sixth and seventh archive. There is a gap of about five hours and I don't know if I missed any posts, however.

[Haveayap 127]

Alright, I understand the big fuss about this now, I have also flagged the mod... HH kindly asked him to take it down and he refused. Im suprised Steam has not acted already, but this problem will continue to occur and I honestly cannot see it going way anytime soon... there needs to be somethng more in place to stop this from happening

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Started archiving this page incase he decides to delete everything again.

 

First link here.

Second link here.

Third link here.

Fourth link here.

Fifth link here.

Sixth link here. 

Seventh link here. (A whole lot of comments are now removed)

Eighth link here.

Thanks. Added to my Steam Support Ticket.

 

[1Leonard 134]

Thanks. Added to my Steam Support Ticket.

 

You're welcome.

 

I'll keep archiving every once in a while.

[Kexikus 995]

I highly doubt Steam will react before the new week starts and even then I assume it might take a while, sadly...

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Hassat, I reported as well, and posted a comment.

 

 

Why is this still up? The owner (= something you are not) contracted you and wants it removed. You even originally had a disclaimer that you will remove if the owner wants that. That should be the end of the discussion right there.

This isn't abandonware. Nobody is prevented from grabbing the mod from DeadlyStream.com.

Even if we ignored the sheer issue issue of theft, there's the fact that Steam workshop doesn't work well enough to just dump mods made for retail Kotor 2 into it and expect everything to work. Any author who uploads mods to Steam Workshop has to tackle these problems and support their mod. And you're breaking that process. This is unfair to the authors, who don't deserve all the "this mod doesn't work" crap associated with their work that will inevitability follow.

And no, "then let them upload it themselves" is no excuse - no one is obliged to deal with Steam if they don't want to.

 

 

Let's see if it gets deleted too. *grin*

 

Me, I've had my two mods uploaded to Steam by someone else, which a few of you guys helpfully let me know about (thanks again!). But the difference is, 1. I had allowed that all these years ago by putting a "distribute freely" disclaimer into the readme, 2. The uploader was respectful and offered to take it down when I contacted them and 3. The uploader didn't just dump the mod in a fire and forget mode, but is taking effort to support it.

 

Unfortunately, the person you're dealing with does not have that kind of class...

 

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I wonder if these kind of folks uploading everything will affect honest modders that won't upload new mods for fear that some asshat will attempt to take credit for it.

[1Leonard 134]

He finally removed it.

 

I'm hoping he at least apologized to HH, but somehow I doubt it.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Plenty of mods got pulled on Steam based on the owner asking so. Steam does acknowledge that it's important to them (they are slow though).

 

As for my problem, I asked Aspyr and they helped and took it down. Not 10 minutes later I get this PM:

 

 

Just so you know I will reupload the mod if you don't upload it yourself within a few weeks.

 

Anyways, off to work on H4F now...

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Victory.

[NxBlaze 1]

Yeah, he seemed like the type who'ld send something like this.

Glad it's finally resolved. Good to know Aspyr was willing to help too.

[1Leonard 134]

Plenty of mods got pulled on Steam based on the owner asking so. Steam does acknowledge that it's important to them (they are slow though).

 

As for my problem, I asked Aspyr and they helped and took it down. Not 10 minutes later I get this PM:

 

 

 

Anyways, off to work on H4F now...

Oh my god what a dick. Who does he think he is?

 

Can't you report those "threats" or something?

[Markus Ramikin 107]

I wouldn't, it's just a sore loser parting shot. If he does in fact upload again, crush him again.

[Kexikus 995]

Good to see this is resolved.

 

And if he indeed uploads it again, maybe it's possible to get him banned from the workshop? Aspyr as developer should be able to do that and if he indeed doesn't recognize the fact that he's not allowed to upload other peoples mods, maybe that's the only way to prevent him from doing that...

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Just so you know I will reupload the mod if you don't upload it yourself within a few weeks.

Really? What a dickhead.

 

Well, we'll be around to crush him a second time if he does. I also found his Youtube channel (he's a Let's player) so I'll see if he mentions anything about Steam in his next TSL video.

 

Interesting his selective deletion of comments, though.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Do link. (I claim research purposes.)

[scoutception 17]

It's almost like he literally cannot understand why it got removed. If it got removed once, why would it be any different it you posted it a second time? Though, it just seems more like him being a sore loser than anything else.

[Uhuru N'Uru 5]

lol at first when I saw VP's quote "TLDR" I thought all three of you were blatantly being sarcastic and patronizing Uhuru's post. Then I read it too and realized you mean it just wasn't worth quoting the whole thing lol.... I was a bit ashamed for a second thinking that the guys I'm on the same (general) side as would just ignore his post till I realized what you three meant was honest.

Well at least you read it eventually, I tend to make long and informative posts. As this was my first it was, short and to the point.

Now first @ Uhuru, that was a great post. Luckily Valve can only do that when the mods are of Source games or any games they Inherently own AFAIK.

They've tried to with Skyrim and have said they haven't given up.

Secondly, I think it's safe to say that we will win this Steam thing in the short run and long run because A) We are a dedicated, persistent community who respect eachother's work and will unite (for the most part) in these situations and B)We can just flag the stuff out of this mother.

I've no doubt, but Steam has to have proof that the uploader isn't the owner, reporting alone may not be enough, proving the mod was here first should be enough, though.

Thirdly, I once again want to try and bring the point back to mods that truly are in danger of being lost because the author has been absent. I WANT to respect others' work.

 

Now most mod author's I have seen have said ~"Please do not re-upload this mod without the author's consent" and there are some author's who will just say ~"Go ahead and upload this anywhere so long as proper rights are given!" and thats fine and all, to each their own.

When it's available somewhere, that's fine.

But I don't think I've seen an author address the possibility that they might be absent in the future for an extended period of time in which their mod might be in danger of being lost in space. And for these mods, I just want them to be reuploaded (and if possible under their name somehow cause I know some forums where admins/mods have access to the creation of "dummy" accounts) and a disclaimer like

 

"THE AUTHOR OF THIS MOD HAS NOT BEEN ACTIVE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME AND AFTER FAILED ATTEMPTS TO CONTACT SAID AUTHOR, THE MOD WILL BE UPLOADED SO AS TO SAVE THE AUTHOR'S WORK AND SO THAT OTHERS CAN ENJOY THE WORK AS PREVIOUSLY INTENDED BY THE AUTHOR. IF THE AUTHOR DOES BECOME ACTIVE AGAIN AND REQUESTS THE MOD BE TAKEN DOWN FOR ANY REASON WHAT SO EVER. IT WILL BE DONE SO IMMEDIATELY"

Those are the same principles I stated, and it would be great if authors did think about the possibility of being AWOL. They rarely do.

The other clear problem, is when authors actually withdraw mods, completely. Even when it results in breaking dependant mods.

 

How many mods depend on TSLRCM, being available?

 

A real case of withdrawal has just occured in Skyrim. Female Body mods are all based on Morphing the Vannila Body, where previous TES/Fallout games used technically better Replacement bodies.

Only one Skyrim replacer has been made, called Lady Body v1/Demonica v2, technically it's far superior to any other Body, with an entire isolated community of dependant Mods.

They are isolated because, they are mostly Russian and the mods and makers use the Russian language.

One modder got the job of official english translator, for all the mods body and dependants, over a hundred mods by numerous different.

It ended abruptly with this statement.

 

Blackelf Skyrim mods English

July 27, 2015 It`s over.

Bye boys and girl, I`m absolutely disappointed with Skyrim mod users community. I decided to left it. Have other things to kill now.

 

No mods, no indication of reason for withdrawal, as opposed to stopping taking part.

It's an unusual situation, as translations, are usually posted as a file in the original Mod, using the built in methods of Skyrim or as separate mods, not on a blog with Cloud drive links, but most Russian sites are using this method.

Partly this is a legacy issue of lack of support for the Cyrrylic alphabet, in the international edition. A separate Russian version was oiriginally required, it's no longer the case, but most Russians already have that original version.

The original mods are still available, a few, usually of recent non Russian origin, have English versions as well. Most are Russian only and respected BlackElf's status as official translator.

Making him the sole source of english versions, mostly of other peoples mods and 1 or 2 of his own.

 

This is where the open modding view draws the line between authors rights and communal rights, Stopping doing the translations is fine, but removing access to existing mods, often over the bad behavior of one or more individuals, claiming they are the "community as a whole".

In this instance it's too soon for any sort of drastic action, I haven't fully investigated if the mods are now hosted elsewhere. I'm a hoarder of mods for these very reasons and do have them all, every singl

 

What is the Community?

When we of the open modding viewpoint, talk of community, we don't mean those who just download mods. We mean those who contribute to the modding process in some way.

• Mod Authors of course
• Utility and Tool authors (often grouped with mods, but they are not actually mods at all, but just as important, often more important)
• Host sites and those who run those sites as Admins and Moderators.
• Bug testers and reporters, both pre-release and post-release.
• Mod Help and Support people, guide writers and Forum question answerers (especially those that get asked all the time, despite being in the ReadMe, page description, first forum post etc.)
• YouTube sites showcasing mods or providing support.
• Even just posting a thankyou or endorsement of the mod (about 10% of Skyrim Downloads are followed by an endorsement, which is a simple button click, allowed 15 minutes after downloading)

Many of these unsung heroes, put more time into a mod, than even the maker does This is certainly the case with Mod Organizer, the best Mod Manager for Skyrim.

I was part of a hard core of Forum Helpers and Document writers, who all spent more time on the Mod than the author, Tannin did.

Now don't assume I'm calling him lazy or anything like that, he had a full time job and the time he had available was limited. Thus a valuable resource, both we and Tannin wanted his time spent on making and bugfixing the mod.

We took care of the help and support, wrote extensive guides and docs, answered those dumb questions repeatedly asked each day.

Tannin could quickly read it all and would occaisonally correct us, when a new feature changed something. Mostly he just worked on making MO into the awesome mod manager it now is. That was all the reward we wanted.

 

Though I mainly did MO support on numerous sites, I would help out with any mod where I could, many others did and still do the same without ever making a mod.

Even so they are the community and roughly only 10% of the mod users, even when including those who simply endorse mods..

 

All this time and effort invested in all mods, relies on work done on all games using that specific engine. I'm sure KotOR 2 uses much of the work from KotOR 1 and maybe even further back.

The Odyssey Engine is an evolution of the Aurora Engine, any link to the Infinity Engine, is less clearly defined, though likely. Other modded games have equivalent evolutions linking mods from game to game.

 

Though we may disagree on if and when the communuty should overule an authors wishes, here on this site, this sites rules take precedence over all that.

Yet, we can debate the issues and understand the opposing viewpoint.

Attack the ideas and opinions, without ever attacking the person, who holds that opposing viewpoint. Agree to disagree and remain civil.

If we were friends before the debate, we should remain friends afterwards, whatever the outcome, however passionate the debate may have been.

 

(2nd post's just a little longer, don't want to start with the really long ones to soon)

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Do link. (I claim research purposes.)

Professor Shroom Youtube

 

Admittedly, it is nice to see the game getting a some Lets Play attention. Seems silly to do it without an insane amount of mods though.

 

I've always wanted to do a run through of the HK factory and do a commentary though.

[DarthTyren 103]

Just so you know I will reupload the mod if you don't upload it yourself within a few weeks.

 

Well, too bad you can't report him on a PM, but all this is telling us is that he hasn't learned his lesson. Also, what about the other mods that he uploaded? Will/Has anything bee(n) done about them?

 

He doesn't understand that the community as a whole has the power to crush him again and again.

 

 

I am FULLY in line with Varsity Puppet's message, Uhuru N'Uru. I thank you very much for your insight and aid, as well as your obvious experience and levelheadedness, which a lot of us (me almost certainly near the front of the line) have temporarily misplaced...

 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't in front of you, but I let a righteous anger turn into something else, and I know that's not the example we want to set.

[scoutception 17]

 

ProfessorShroom, on 02 Aug 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

 

Well, too bad you can't report him on a PM, but all this is telling us is that he hasn't learned his lesson. Also, what about the other mods that he uploaded? Will/Has anything bee(n) done about them?

 

He doesn't understand that the community as a whole has the power to crush him again and again.

 

 

 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't in front of you, but I let a righteous anger turn into something else, and I know that's not the example we want to set.

 

Actually, a number of the mods Shroom tried to upload have been taken down. The only ones left are Shem's Sith Assassins with Lightsabers and the Pretty Atris mods.

While on the topic of Shroom, check out his disclaimer:

"NOT MY MOD! ALL RIGHTS BELONG TO ORIGNAL OWNER. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF THIS CONTENT AND YOU WANT IT REMOVED BECAUSE YOU WANT TO UPLOAD IT YOURSELF PLEASE CONTACT ME. "

Yes, in his mind the only reason you wouldn't want somebody else uploading your mods would be because you want to upload them yourself. Either that or he's saying he will voluntarily remove it for that reason only.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I've always wanted to do a run through of the HK factory and do a commentary though.

Do!

 

Just use better recording stuff this time

[ChrisC26 12]

This Shroom guy is a menace. I'm curious how old he is. I can't imagine an adult sending that PM to you. I certainly can't imagine an adult with a normal life focusing so much time on actively trying to "destroy" the hobbies of others. He must either be a child or a basement dwelling neckbeard whose social skills including respect and knowledge of consequences never developed.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

it is nice to see the game getting a some Lets Play attention.

Eh, as far as I am concerned Scorchy did the definitive thing.

 

I still remember reading the whole original thread in one night, and feeling afterwards that it was worth the not-sleeping.