Kainzorus Prime

[Request] Missing Bao-Dur body models

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As most of you know, Bao-Dur can't equip robes and heavy armor. This is because all of his appearance.2da entries use a personal customized entries to account for his arm. Ergo, they use the same textures as regular versions of the armors, but the model itself is custom and includes Bao's mechanical arm.

Obsidian didn't bother giving him the custom bodies beyond type F, which is the medium armor, which is also why he doesn't have heavy armor feat selectable in the game - it would simply crash because of the missing appearance.2da entries.

So, my request would be to take the remaining armor models (body types G, H, K, M), and attach Bao's Arm to them, while retaining the UV maps to accomodate the textures, just like the stock bodies he uses now.

While there are some concerns about there being a space between the head and body for the robes (body types I, N), using a custom mesh such as the following - http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/413-tsl-prequel-robe-replacement/ http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/64-movie-style-jedi-master-robes/ - should prove to be adequate, as very few people use stock robe models these days. Regardless, robe addition is secondary to the request of the missing armor types.

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Well, if you want his underwear model and texture, don't forget my awesome mod
http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/344-player-party-underwear/

As for the others, I did try to make G & H once upon a time, but I don't think that they were successful. I was just moving vertices and uvw maps around, and replacing with the Taina's replacer method. I'll take a look through my old files.

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As most of you know, Bao-Dur can't equip robes and heavy armor. This is because all of his appearance.2da entries use a personal customized entries to account for his arm. Ergo, they use the same textures as regular versions of the armors, but the model itself is custom and includes Bao's mechanical arm.

Obsidian didn't bother giving him the custom bodies beyond type F, which is the medium armor, which is also why he doesn't have heavy armor feat selectable in the game - it would simply crash because of the missing appearance.2da entries.

So, my request would be to take the remaining armor models (body types G, H, K, M), and attach Bao's Arm to them, while retaining the UV maps to accomodate the textures, just like the stock bodies he uses now.

While there are some concerns about there being a space between the head and body for the robes (body types I, N), using a custom mesh such as the following - http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/413-tsl-prequel-robe-replacement/ http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/64-movie-style-jedi-master-robes/ - should prove to be adequate, as very few people use stock robe models these days. Regardless, robe addition is secondary to the request of the missing armor types.

It's not quite that easy. First off, missing body models would have to be slightly tweaked to fit Bao-Dur's large head and more closely match his body size.

 

Even so, no one has figured out how to put his arm on a new body model and maintain the texture it uses. It typically gets overwritten by whatever armor texture you're currently wearing. I tried it a long time ago with no success, but maybe looking at the hex code could lead to some clue

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This is what I came up with back in aught nine. Basically, I started with Bao's body model for F type armor, and then (using gMax) moved the vertices around to approximate the G or H model shape. The G shape worked out pretty close, but the H shape couldn't get the gautlets or the thigh ridges right (because there aren't enough verts to work with).

 

Then I moved the uvw nodes around to try and match up with the original PMBG.tga & PMBH.tga maps. While G worked, for the most part, there are still some areas that don't line up: the front middle stripe, the cod piece, the trapezius area, the wrist guard, etc. (I've put arrows on the screen shots to highlight those problems).

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq351/redrob41/BaoDur%20BG%20heavy%20armor.jpg~original

 

The H model has even more uvw mismatch problems: the front middle stripe, the back of the neck, below the shoulder blades, the side ribs, and the whole briefs area from front to back are all major problems with regard to stretched textures. There are also some small problems that you can't easily see (like the bottom of the shin guard to the top of the ankle has a ring of stretched texture).

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq351/redrob41/BaoDur%20BH%20heavy%20armor.jpg~original

 

Then I exported the ascii mdl, and used Taina's replacer. This method results in models that work in-game (no crashes), keep Bao's mechanical arm (more importantly, the plasma emitters), and still work with any textures for that armor type (both vanilla and modded textures).

 

These stretched textures are because the F body model doesn't have breaks or cuts in the same place as the G or H models. Since 2009, I've gotten better at manipulating models in Max, and I can merge PMBHL.mdl with BaoDur_BF.mdl so that the model and uvws are perfect, but I can't compile a working model out of it. Our modding tools just aren't good enough for this type of complex model.

 

I think that, at the time, I didn't release these because they're not up to my usual quality standards, and I was hoping that someone would come up with a better tool or method so that I could get this to work.

 

If any one else has a solution, please let me know.

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This is what I came up with back in aught nine. Basically, I started with Bao's body model for F type armor, and then (using gMax) moved the vertices around to approximate the G or H model shape. The G shape worked out pretty close, but the H shape couldn't get the gautlets or the thigh ridges right (because there aren't enough verts to work with).

 

Then I moved the uvw nodes around to try and match up with the original PMBG.tga & PMBH.tga maps. While G worked, for the most part, there are still some areas that don't line up: the front middle stripe, the cod piece, the trapezius area, the wrist guard, etc. (I've put arrows on the screen shots to highlight those problems).

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq351/redrob41/BaoDur%20BG%20heavy%20armor.jpg~original

 

The H model has even more uvw mismatch problems: the front middle stripe, the back of the neck, below the shoulder blades, the side ribs, and the whole briefs area from front to back are all major problems with regard to stretched textures. There are also some small problems that you can't easily see (like the bottom of the shin guard to the top of the ankle has a ring of stretched texture).

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq351/redrob41/BaoDur%20BH%20heavy%20armor.jpg~original

 

Then I exported the ascii mdl, and used Taina's replacer. This method results in models that work in-game (no crashes), keep Bao's mechanical arm (more importantly, the plasma emitters), and still work with any textures for that armor type (both vanilla and modded textures).

 

These stretched textures are because the F body model doesn't have breaks or cuts in the same place as the G or H models. Since 2009, I've gotten better at manipulating models in Max, and I can merge PMBHL.mdl with BaoDur_BF.mdl so that the model and uvws are perfect, but I can't compile a working model out of it. Our modding tools just aren't good enough for this type of complex model.

 

I think that, at the time, I didn't release these because they're not up to my usual quality standards, and I was hoping that someone would come up with a better tool or method so that I could get this to work.

 

If any one else has a solution, please let me know.

 

Usual standards? Man that looks really good! :o

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If you will allow me to necro this thread, I present:

 

TSL_Bao-Dur_Armour_and_Robes_01_TH.jpg

 

The question is though, how is the robe and heavy armour restriction implemented? It seems like the heavy armour is simply done via preventing Bao-Dur getting the heavy armour feat, as giving him the feat via KSE allows him to equip heavy armour fine. So I gather that is resolvable with a class edit? The robes though seem to go a little deeper. The Jedi Defense feat is not enough. Presumably it is linked to his Zabrak sub-race, but I can't find where exactly the restriction is implemented. In baseitems.2da there only appears to be the restriction on Wookiees via the denysubrace column (unchanged from K1). In the robe UTIs there's the restriction to humans property, but removing that makes no difference - he is still blocked from using them. I gather one of the earlier Bao-Dur mods just edited his UTC and changed his sub-race to none to get around this, but that seems like a cop-out. I'd like to remove the restrictions altogether, assuming they aren't hard-coded.

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If you will allow me to necro this thread, I present:

 

TSL_Bao-Dur_Armour_and_Robes_01_TH.jpg

 

The question is though, how is the robe and heavy armour restriction implemented? It seems like the heavy armour is simply done via preventing Bao-Dur getting the heavy armour feat, as giving him the feat via KSE allows him to equip heavy armour fine. So I gather that is resolvable with a class edit?.

Or you could edit the feat.2da to allow Tech Specialist the option to receive Heavy Armors during level ups or just straight up give him the feat in the p_baodur.utc file.

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Hmmmm, he looks kind of big headed though,almost like a bobble head, since his body is originally quite more bulky it explains it, wouldn't it be possible to edit the models into a more bulky shape as redrob had attempted to do?

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The question is though, how is the robe and heavy armour restriction implemented? It seems like the heavy armour is simply done via preventing Bao-Dur getting the heavy armour feat, as giving him the feat via KSE allows him to equip heavy armour fine. So I gather that is resolvable with a class edit?

 

Yes, that one is indeed that simple. For the heavy armor row, changing the entries tec_list and baodur to 0 should let him choose the feat at level up.

 

I gather one of the earlier Bao-Dur mods just edited his UTC and changed his sub-race to none to get around this, but that seems like a cop-out. I'd like to remove the restrictions altogether, assuming they aren't hard-coded.

 

That's probably the way to do it. As you said, it's not the items or denysubrace. It's also not itemtype. There is an item property for limitation by subrace, but it doesn't seem to be that, either.

 

My guess is it's something about those specific baseitem lines, like how Force jump is. Unfortunately, if so, that means there's no way to remove the "Cannot Equip: Bao-Dur" text either.

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his body is originally quite more bulky

It's really not. The actual differences are marginal. A non-uniform scale of between 101-103% on each axis has the equivalent general body match his vanilla equivalent. It's mostly height that is the major difference, because of his vanilla short, fat neck. Even then, the difference is less than 2cm (~¾") at its biggest divergence. Here's his vanilla D body vs PMBDM:

 

TSL_Bao_Dur_Vanilla_Body_D_vs_PMBDM_TH.j

 

That's probably the way to do it. As you said, it's not the items or denysubrace. It's also not itemtype. There is an item property for limitation by subrace, but it doesn't seem to be that, either.

Yeah, kind of annoying. I'd really prefer not to do it that way, but I guess there may not be any other option.

 

there's no way to remove the "Cannot Equip: Bao-Dur" text either.

It's not in the item description. And I can't see that string in dialog.tlk. Where is the game pulling that from?

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It's really not. The actual differences are marginal. A non-uniform scale of between 101-103% on each axis has the equivalent general body match his vanilla equivalent. It's mostly height that is the major difference, because of his vanilla short, fat neck. Even then, the difference is less than 2cm (~¾") at its biggest divergence. Here's his vanilla D body vs PMBDM:

 

TSL_Bao_Dur_Vanilla_Body_D_vs_PMBDM_TH.j

 

 

Yeah, kind of annoying. I'd really prefer not to do it that way, but I guess there may not be any other option.

 

 

It's not in the item description. And I can't see that string in dialog.tlk. Where is the game pulling that from?

The differences are marginal, but the arms are a bit wider. Have you widened them a bit for other body models?

 

Also, other people might have seen a difference due to his weird neck and probably you have taken the pictures with your neck fix.

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It's really not. The actual differences are marginal. A non-uniform scale of between 101-103% on each axis has the equivalent general body match his vanilla equivalent. It's mostly height that is the major difference, because of his vanilla short, fat neck. Even then, the difference is less than 2cm (~¾") at its biggest divergence. Here's his vanilla D body vs PMBDM:

 

TSL_Bao_Dur_Vanilla_Body_D_vs_PMBDM_TH.j

 

 

Well, if we superpose them the difference is this:

 

post-10880-0-61168600-1497185529_thumb.jpg

 

(blue parts being the extra bulk of Bao Dur.

It might look subtle, but there is a difference, mostly on the legs, but also the non mechanical arm, and as you said, the height, the torso is also slightly more thick ( but a much smaller difference compared to legs, arms and height). Such small difference could be considered negligible on the numbers as you said, "101-103% on each axis has the equivalent general body match his vanilla equivalent" 101, 103% isn't much if theory, but it definitely is noticeable at a glance, I've spent long enough looking at figures and comparing proportions/posture etc at university (fine arts) and to me the difference is enough to be bothering, the neck fix also while it allows it to fit better with the vanilla body gives a completely different feel about Bao Dur, it looks like he spent 10 months at the hospital and lost all his muscles.

 

It's not really that bothersome in some of the models like the heavy plate armor, but on some it really does look weird, mostly on the underwear model, the armored flight suit, and the jedi robes, jal shey etc...

 

I'm not criticizing, i think you're one of the most consistent and skilled modders in the community, mostly when it comes to the 3d side of thing, and it's ultimately your choice but i think it would definitely benefit from some more bulk in every model to have similar proportions to his default clothing.

 

As superSzym pointed, the neck fix probably has something to do with it, while it's a good think to be able to attack Bao Dur's head to normal vanilla bodies, I don't think it's the best way to go about it,  adapting the body models to Bao Dur's default corpulence would give a better result in line with the default Bao Dur, the neck fix is faster and easier since you only need to edit the head and can leave the body models in the original state, but it gives a Bao Dur with a neck longer than other characters when he used to have an even shorter and fat neck than them, takes away his bulk and will make him look very different than the vanilla Bao Dur (in a bad way in my opinion, since we already have every single humanoid besides with exactly the same body, it makes him more unique to be a bigger guy). But in the end I respect that it's your choice, and you're the one making the mod, so i don't have much say in it, and don't really mind if you change it or not, just giving my honest opinion, it's up to you to take it into account or not.

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it gives a Bao Dur with a neck longer than other characters

No, it literally gives him exactly the same neck as everyone else. That was the entire point of the neck adjustment.

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It's not in the item description. And I can't see that string in dialog.tlk. Where is the game pulling that from?

 

It's two separate strings. "Cannot Equip" and "Bao-Dur". But the Bao-Dur part might be used elsewhere, is the problem. Like for the feats only he can have.

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On to a different matter, the really interesting part about the Bao-Dur bodies is that the appearance.2da texture overrides only apply to the body texture, not the robo-arm texture. Every other row where you have a multi-texture model and specify a texture in the texture slot, all textures used by that model will get overriden (so if you want to take advantage of texture variants for multi-texture armour/robes, you have to merge all your textures into one). This would be a really useful feature if it could be applied globally, especially for someone like me that tends to mash different models together a lot. I can't see where it's implemented though. Hardcoded perhaps?

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So wait. The Zabrak race uses the same clothing restriction as the Wookiee race?

 

EDIT: Also there does appear to be a minor offset where the prosthetic meets the sleeve. As if the arm going in is smaller than the hand connected to it. Would that be  correctible issue, or would it screw with the overall armor/robe models?

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57 minutes ago, JDub96 said:

So wait. The Zabrak race uses the same clothing restriction as the Wookiee race?

No, it doesn't. The denysubrace column in baseitems.2da prevents Wookiees from wearing clothing and masks. It's not clear how Bao-Dur's restrictions work, but it's certainly not that.

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Well what about working the other way around? Making custom items that use those models specifically for Bao-Dur?

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I don't know if that would work or not, but it's kind of a moot point because changing Bao-Dur's subrace definitely does work and is a lot easier if not a totally satisfying solution.

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