High Resolution Maps

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Before I even begin, I realize this request is not likely to be fulfilled due to its incredible scope.  But for those with the will and a lot of time on their hands, it may be interesting to attempt. With COVID-19 still being a thing, many people have lots of time on their hands so now is a good a time as any to make this request. So here I go...

Anyway @jc2 mentioned in a Status Update a few hours ago that he was interested in a mod that upped the resolution of maps.  So I looked at the mod and I wasn't incredibly wowed.  (It was on my phone so there's that.)  But it got me to thinking about map's resolutions.  What if some crazy genius used GLIntercept to move the camera way up in the air to take much better shots of the ground and stitched together multiple shots to make a high resolution map of every area?

Now let's point out the downsides...

1 - You'd have to take multiple shots of each section of the map as the screenshot would skew as it's in three dimensions.

2 - You may as need to take more than one screenshot of each section due to characters, animals and droids that move across the map.

3 - Adding on to the first two notes, you'd have to face more than one direction as GLIntercept tends to make things lose details in areas you are not facing.  So behind you, you may lose an object or section that should appear on a map so you'd have to turn the character 180 degrees and take another screenshot. Yikes!

4 - You'd have to crop out your character when doing this for every shot.  You'd also want to crop out many of the roaming models as well.

On the other hand, you could go from this . . .

Map shown actual size

. . . to something with the detail of this

Granted, this is only a very small portion of a very large M4-78 map. Also note the entrance to the map near the bottom of the picture doesn't show up as the character isn't facing it.

I hadn't mentioned which game I'd want this for.  Yes, it's requested for both.  But oddly enough, I'd like to see Knights of the Old Republic I done first. (Yeah, I'm surprised too.)

Thank you for your attention.

[Kexikus 995]

Honestly, I think it would be much easier to load the modules in Max and then render from there with an orthographic camera. Granted, you don't get the exact ingame lighting so that would have to be set up to look good but you get around the facing issue where not everything is rendered ingame depending on where your character looks. And stitching perspective renders taken from different places is a real pain as nothing matches up.

The biggest issue with either of these methods is something else though. The modules in both games were stripped of all geometry that cannot be seen during normal gameplay or in other words: They're not meant to be seen from above and you'd get gaps and missing roofs and whatnot everywhere. I assume that the original maps were rendered before the unnecessary geometry was cut or something like that, but for a good looking map that would have to be restored at least in parts.

Either way, I like the idea even though I don't know how feasible it actually is.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

38 minutes ago, Kexikus said:

you don't get the exact ingame lighting so that would have to be set up to look good

That part is relatively straightforward to do in principle at least, since Max can make use of lightmaps via a DirectX shader:

     

The real problem would be the impracticality of setting it up for every single level, since that would involve hundreds of materials. The only way it would work is if bead-v (or someone else) could alter KMax to add a mode where it automatically loads materials up with that shader rather than just using the default material settings.

But overall, while an interesting thought exercise, as Kex alludes to it isn't a particularly practical endeavour.

[Thor110 500]

Interesting idea and correct me if I am wrong, but couldn't the entire map be rendered at once? Just import to Blender with KotorMax and use the .lyt file to arrange the level, then use top-down rendering techniques to make a map from it, I am almost certain I have seen a technique / tutorial somewhere for rendering a whole level to a minimap at once, I shall have to track it down.

At some point I need to re-render the K1 maps for K2 anyway so I might look into this as well ( won't be any time soon though ) as for setting up the lightmaps, I do not even know how to apply the lightmaps myself, using GMax and KOTORMax it's relatively simple to get the whole level loaded in.

[Kexikus 995]

That's exactly what I was suggesting since it really is very simple to load the area into Max.

The problem is mainly the missing geometry when viewing the area from above and the issue of getting the lightmaps into Max. Doing this manually for each mesh would take forever.

[Thor110 500]

51 minutes ago, Kexikus said:

The problem is mainly the missing geometry when viewing the area from above and the issue of getting the lightmaps into Max. Doing this manually for each mesh would take forever.

Luckily for the K1 minimaps they don't use the lightmaps so I don't need to worry about them, but for this idea modifying KotORMax to load the lightmaps as well when loading a level via the layout file is probably the best approach.

I am not even sure how to manually apply them, perhaps that could be assigned to a macro as well.

[Kexikus 995]

I have no idea either. Didn't even know that Max supports lightmaps until DP mentioned it.

I would really like to see something like that implemented though.

[Magnetiicz 15]

Would it be possible to get the map to a close up resolution

 

[Thor110 500]

4 hours ago, Magnetiicz said:

Would it be possible to get the map to a close up resolution

You could do that piece by piece but I think a better idea is to figure out the correct scaling for each map, you could use the minimap itself as a guide for that and then render the level as an image to either create the minimap from in Photoshop or I know through rendering techniques borders can be applied etc but again I am unfamiliar with that

I still haven't done that much looking into it yet because I am not very good with 3D modelling.

KotorMax and NWNMax have a Mini-Map maker button that according to forum posts only works in 3DSMax, I wonder has anybody tried it out?

[Magnetiicz 15]

6 hours ago, Thor110 said:

You could do that piece by piece but I think a better idea is to figure out the correct scaling for each map, you could use the minimap itself as a guide for that and then render the level as an image to either create the minimap from in Photoshop or I know through rendering techniques borders can be applied etc but again I am unfamiliar with that

I still haven't done that much looking into it yet because I am not very good with 3D modelling.

KotorMax and NWNMax have a Mini-Map maker button that according to forum posts only works in 3DSMax, I wonder has anybody tried it out?

Well with the render above i could easily do 1 or 2 sections at a time but it won't make much difference if it has to be scaled down to that tiny map size.

[Kexikus 995]

What would be the benefit of rendering the rooms individually though? You could just as well render the entire area at once.

And it doesn't have to be scaled down, there is no limit to the map texture size.

[Sithspecter 909]

You guys may want to do a test of a larger map in KotOR before proceeding. If I remember correctly, I tried rendering higher resolution maps for some of the Sleheyron areas, but they turned out all wonky in the game, as if the game only uses a set pixel amount for each dimension. There may be additional settings in the GUI files that could be changed to work around this, but I don't know of them.

[Magnetiicz 15]

4 hours ago, Kexikus said:

What would be the benefit of rendering the rooms individually though? You could just as well render the entire area at once.

And it doesn't have to be scaled down, there is no limit to the map texture size.

I guess it would be what program is being used for rendering the whole area. I have no idea how map scaling would work i leave that for more the inclined modder, i'm just trying to help with what i can do to make it a reality.

[Logan23 205]

Just wondering with module maps in blender, .. any chance could a level editor be built in there. Prob not but just wondering lol

 

[Hunters Run 57]

23 hours ago, Logan23 said:

Just wondering with module maps in blender, .. any chance could a level editor be built in there. Prob not but just wondering lol

 

Not too go to off topic, but:

Yeah, it's possible.