The rise of Skywalker *spoiler warning*

[Haveayap 127]

So I went to the premier in my country for free. Have to say it was better than TLJ.

It wasnt a bad film but wasnt great. Very forgettable.

Ian really made the film for me though. But there was alot of unexplained bs that they will probably leave to the extended canon to answer which was disappointing .

[zbyl2 811]

Hahaha it was terrible. So-bad-it's-funny though, so it's not all bad.

 

Much worse than TLJ. I defended some stuff in TLJ, there's nothing really to defend in this one.

[Ebony Moon 187]

I'm not even going to watch it. Learned enough of the spoilers that I don't want to.  If they had gone with Lucas' cut it had a chance, but not this.

The Mandalorian, though, is getting really good, more than makes up for it.

[DarthVarkor 384]

I...honestly don't know how I felt. There were some visually stunning moments and exciting set-pieces, but the story was all over the place. Incredibly convoluted and rushed, especially the first hour. There's a whole trilogy's worth of story in this film, it's a shame we didn't get that adapted properly over three films as apposed to cramming it all into the last one.

I thought it was good to finally see Rey, Finn and Poe together off on an adventure, they had a lot of chemistry, just wish we had gotten more of it.

Overall, while I think I need to see it again, I can definitely say I'm very underwhelmed with what we got.

[Akha72 5]

At best it is an average ending to a disappointing and chaotic trilogy and a desperate attempt to fix what was ruined by the 8th. TRoS repeats the pattern of previous two though - it answers its questions while posing another (unanswered ones), uses original cast more as marketing tools than 'childhood legends', completely disregards prequel material, seems to be more rushed than AoTC and TSL put together and its plot is so unoriginal it is actually funny. Music is cool, so are visuals but there is and was no plan, I have no idea what was disney story team thinking but clearly neither do they. It has to be said though that it verges on impossible to bind all the plot lines of the previous 8 movies and at the same time make a good 2 h movie that has its own story and action.

In the end from a trilogy that had limitless potential we got ANH remake, some wannabe-edgy movie that has no plot, shits on things established by the  predecessors and is the longest one with most filler material while those nearly 3 hrs could be better spent story and character-wise and the grand finale that is just an okay adventure movie that turns into bombastic epic battle packed with easter eggs with not much feeling nor explanation or sense behind it. It could have turned out better had one director ran all three movies - in terms of the story, style and vision. But it could've been worse I guess.

[Sith Holocron 2,477]

21 hours ago, DarthVarkor said:

rushed

 

This was one the word that I came to when trying to encapsulate what I just saw when leaving the theater for 930 AM showing.  (As predicted, my wife dragged me there.)  So . . . rushed.

Rather than dwell on the avalanche of deserved ire that this movie will earn, I'd rather be thankful that this community here exists so we can remember what we like about all of this. 

KOTOR.  KOTOR now.  KOTOR forever.

[dg1995 28]

It was like watching Batman And Robin really.

[Sith Holocron 2,477]

13 minutes ago, dg1995 said:

It was like watching Batman And Robin really.

Batman and Robin was shorter. One up for Batman and Robin - a phrase I never thought I'd ever be saying. 

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Congratulations to @Sith Holocron's roles as the two wayfinders!

I... sort of liked it? But sort of didn't like it. I think I need to have it marinate for a bit.

 

[dg1995 28]

1 hour ago, Sith Holocron said:

Batman and Robin was shorter. One up for Batman and Robin - a phrase I never thought I'd ever be saying. 

Yeah, and Batman and Robin was also supposed to be a light hearted child friendly movie similar to Adam West Batman.

But Rise Of Skywalker was supposed to bring a 40 year story into an end, but it was a laughable movie in it's serious moments.(Especially the times that they screwed the rules OT and PT Star Wars movies.)

[Sith Holocron 2,477]

1 hour ago, VarsityPuppet said:

Congratulations to @Sith Holocron's roles as the two wayfinders!

No.  Just ... no.

[Canderis 180]

I liked it. I think it did the best it could with the time it had to make up for the flaws with TLJ, answer the questions opened in TFA, keep a similar tone and style to the other movies, and close the entire series out.

With how much it had to deal with going in, I think it turned out nearly as good as it could have. 

 

I really wish they had had a coherent plan from the start. This trilogy really suffered from the improv.

[Talyn82 84]

Yeah I did not see it nor have I subscribed to Disney+.  After TLJ and the way Disney and LucasFilms attacked and still attack longtime fans.  I'm not giving them any of my money.  What a waste of potential we will never see Luke, Han, and Leia onscreen.  Plus the TLJ ripped the heart and soul of SW by the way they handled Luke, who is the heart and soul of SW.

[dg1995 28]

Just want to share it here.

It looks like this movie had a lot of production problems which resulted in the mess it became.

This reddit post sounds believable.

Quote

 

[Talyn82 84]

30 minutes ago, dg1995 said:

Just want to share it here.

It looks like this movie had a lot of production problems which resulted in the mess it became.

This reddit post sounds believable.

 

So retconning Anakin's sacrifice was Disney's idea and not JJ?  Well at least I can give him some credit.  But yeah from what you posted it sounded like a disaster.  

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Yeah, we know that... like 5 recorded endings, many rewrites, reshoots till 2 weeks before release... a bigger mess I cannot remember.

[Mutilator57 140]

Well what can you do after the raging dumpster fire that was TLJ?

I thought it was a fair attempt considering what JJ had to work with, but rushed to hell and fanservicey at times (and not in a good way like Rogue One). At least they explained (albeit unsatisfactorily) how Rey was such a Mary Sue.

Though I still think the prequels were bad, at least they set up an environment in which EU content had a strong basis to flourish. With this trilogy, I've not the slightest interest in the universe or any of the main characters.

[Ebony Moon 187]

10 hours ago, dg1995 said:

Just want to share it here.

It looks like this movie had a lot of production problems which resulted in the mess it became.

This reddit post sounds believable.

 

My understanding was that it was Kathleen Kennedy who made the final choice of which cut to produce. But it really doesn't matter. The trilogy was made by people who had no real understanding of Star Wars. Sure they mimicked it well at times, but with no understanding of what made Star Wars work.

There was no true Hero's Journey with Rey like there was with Luke. Lucas is a fan of Joseph Campbell, who studied myths and legends and why they carry such strength through the ages. Lucas followed the formula of the Hero's Journey. This, combined with a certain aesthetic from such artists like Ralph McQuarrie, is why Star Wars became so huge. Plus Lucas knew how to break the rules a bit to make a fresh take on an old story, such as the hero being the son of the villain- which was ground breaking at the time. Lucas wasn't even sure if it would work, which is why he had Splinter in the Mind's Eye written to be a back up sequel to Star Wars, if Star Wars was a flop. In the book Splinter in the Mind's Eye Darth Vader was not related to Luke or Leia. But the rest was history and we got a truly great sequel.

One would think that Disney understood this, considering the works they have put out over the years, but I guess they didn't. There was the famous account of one Disney executive who simply could not understand why women liked Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow. Perhaps they had lost their touch when they morphed into a huge conglomerate consuming anything they could get their hands on. But, then again, Disney was the ones who invented the myth of lemmings migrating themselves into the sea by forcing the poor creatures to do exactly that for a film.

Lucas should have never sold Star Wars. He wanted to focus on his family,  a very understandable reason. But I think it would have been better to let it rest uncompleted than to turn it over to someone else who could never do it justice. Or he should have retained greater control, at least a strong veto on whatever Disney was trying to do. I can't imagine what he must be feeling now, no matter how much like a Jedi he is in outlook.

[Talyn82 84]

5 hours ago, Ebony Moon said:

My understanding was that it was Kathleen Kennedy who made the final choice of which cut to produce. But it really doesn't matter. The trilogy was made by people who had no real understanding of Star Wars. Sure they mimicked it well at times, but with no understanding of what made Star Wars work.

There was no true Hero's Journey with Rey like there was with Luke. Lucas is a fan of Joseph Campbell, who studied myths and legends and why they carry such strength through the ages. Lucas followed the formula of the Hero's Journey. This, combined with a certain aesthetic from such artists like Ralph McQuarrie, is why Star Wars became so huge. Plus Lucas knew how to break the rules a bit to make a fresh take on an old story, such as the hero being the son of the villain- which was ground breaking at the time. Lucas wasn't even sure if it would work, which is why he had Splinter in the Mind's Eye written to be a back up sequel to Star Wars, if Star Wars was a flop. In the book Splinter in the Mind's Eye Darth Vader was not related to Luke or Leia. But the rest was history and we got a truly great sequel.

One would think that Disney understood this, considering the works they have put out over the years, but I guess they didn't. There was the famous account of one Disney executive who simply could not understand why women liked Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow. Perhaps they had lost their touch when they morphed into a huge conglomerate consuming anything they could get their hands on. But, then again, Disney was the ones who invented the myth of lemmings migrating themselves into the sea by forcing the poor creatures to do exactly that for a film.

Lucas should have never sold Star Wars. He wanted to focus on his family,  a very understandable reason. But I think it would have been better to let it rest uncompleted than to turn it over to someone else who could never do it justice. Or he should have retained greater control, at least a strong veto on whatever Disney was trying to do. I can't imagine what he must be feeling now, no matter how much like a Jedi he is in outlook.

I agree with everything you said.  But I think part of the reason Lucas sold the rights was because of all the backlash he got from the prequels.  I remember videos of people saying Lucas ruined their childhoods.  I remember people bashing a 10 year old kid, Jake Lloyd cause he was just doing what he was told.  I remember hearing stories of crazed fanatical SW fans running up to Hayden and yelling you ruined Vader!  Let's not forget the crap the actor who played Jar Jar when through that he considered suicide.  All this ultimately fell on George Lucas's shoulders cause these actors were just doing what he told them.  So if I was him I tried to wash my clean of SW and sell the rights.

That's why I find it funny that these same crazed fanatical fans are now begging for Lucas to come back.  The same crazed fans like Simon Pegg who bashed him for a decade.

[Ebony Moon 187]

1 minute ago, Talyn82 said:

I agree with everything you said.  But I think part of the reason Lucas sold the rights was because of all the backlash he got from the prequels.  I remember videos of people saying Lucas ruined their childhoods.  I remember people bashing a 10 year old kid, Jake Lloyd cause he was just doing what he was told.  I remember hearing stories of crazed fanatical SW fans running up to Hayden and yelling you ruined Vader!  Let's not forget the crap the actor who played Jar Jar when through that he considered suicide.  All this ultimately fell on George Lucas's shoulders cause these actors were just doing what he told them.  So if I was him I tried to wash my clean of SW and sell the rights.

That's why I find it funny that these same crazed fanatical fans are now begging for Lucas to come back.  The same crazed fans like Simon Pegg who bashed him for a decade.

I'm sure that played a part, too. A big part. It can get tiring. Sickening what Ahmed Best, Hayden, and Jake Lloyd have been through. While I think their roles could have been written better in the movies,. it's not the fault of the actors. 

It should be a meme: Now we wish we were kinder to the Prequels.

[Talyn82 84]

16 minutes ago, Ebony Moon said:

I'm sure that played a part, too. A big part. It can get tiring. Sickening what Ahmed Best, Hayden, and Jake Lloyd have been through. While I think their roles could have been written better in the movies,. it's not the fault of the actors. 

It should be a meme: Now we wish we were kinder to the Prequels.

Out of those three I think Hayden had the most pressure.  Because he played the central figure and he had big shoes to fill.  You know who was George Lucas's first pick to play Anakin? Leornado Dicaprio.  But Leonardo seeing how obsessed the crazed fanatics can get, declined.  Which in my opinion was a good idea.  But I agree they could have been written better.  But since Lucas was surrounded by Yes men, no one challenged him.

Me personally I never bashed the prequels I was and still am a prequel defender.  Especially 'Revenge of the Sith.'  I think they all were a mixed bag.  There were some good parts like duel between Darth Maul, Obi Wan, and Qui Gon, and then there were cringey parts like the romance scenes between Anakin and Padme.  Also people must remember he did not have his secret weapon when he made the prequels.  His ex-wife.  She was the one who put the OT scenes together.  She, Alec Guiness, and Mark Hamill all voiced their opinions and George listened.  That's what made those movies timeless and are still revered today.

So yeah the prequels could have been a lot better, but then again they could have been like the sequel trilogy.

[Ebony Moon 187]

29 minutes ago, Talyn82 said:

Out of those three I think Hayden had the most pressure.  Because he played the central figure and he had big shoes to fill.  You know who was George Lucas's first pick to play Anakin? Leornado Dicaprio.  But Leonardo seeing how obsessed the crazed fanatics can get, declined.  Which in my opinion was a good idea.  But I agree they could have been written better.  But since Lucas was surrounded by Yes men, no one challenged him.

Me personally I never bashed the prequels I was and still am a prequel defender.  Especially 'Revenge of the Sith.'  I think they all were a mixed bag.  There were some good parts like duel between Darth Maul, Obi Wan, and Qui Gon, and then there were cringey parts like the romance scenes between Anakin and Padme.  Also people must remember he did not have his secret weapon when he made the prequels.  His ex-wife.  She was the one who put the OT scenes together.  She, Alec Guiness, and Mark Hamill all voiced their opinions and George listened.  That's what made those movies timeless and are still revered today.

So yeah the prequels could have been a lot better, but then again they could have been like the sequel trilogy.

Ngl, Hayden was eye candy. I like him a lot in SW. I think Lucas should have let him have more reign in portraying a nascent Darth Vader. I think he had a good feel for Vader; he was constrained by the directing which is why so many say his acting was wooden.

I think Anakin should have been a little older, at least as old as Padme. But Jake Lloyd had a lot of spirit.

Yeah, Lucas went without a lot of good advice. But, yeah, I like the prequels overall.

[Talyn82 84]

Well yeah Hayden was eye candy.  I persoanlly think he portrayed Anakin perfectly let me explain.  For the first ten years as a Padawan he lived cloistered and was taught not to give into his feelings.  The nhe is reunited with Padme who by that time is a total hottie, and he does not know how to handle his strong feelings towards her.  Which makes him act wooden and odd.  That's why the romance scenes were cringey cause he did not know how to act in that situation, since he was taught not to give into his emotions.  Now I know people will say what about Obi Wan and Mace.  Well they were older than Anakin and had been trained since they were very young.  So they knew how to handle their emotions.

I always said it if the Jedi found Anakin earlier he would have not fallen.  In the old canon parent's would give up their children to the Jedi if they were Force sensitive.  Usually these children were babies.  Anakin was discovered when he was 10.  For 10 years he had a strong attachment to his mother.  Which is why when Qui Gon presents him to the Council Yoda says he senses great fear in Anakin.  This fear was for his mother.  Basically he suffered from separation anxiety.  Anyway I rambling now.

Back on topic.  SW is garbage now.  I will not go see this movie and although it sounds like a good show, I will not watch the Mandalorian either even though "baby Yoda" is so cute.  They made Han into a deadbeat dad, they made Luke into a loser who almost killed his nephew, and they retconned Vader's sacrifice.  So both Anakin and Luke failed.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Can't say I heard of the Hayden incident but remeber Loyd was bullied by his fellow classmates (kids can be mean), and Ahmed SPECIFICALLY stated it was the media that drove him there, not the fans. But of course those same media happily omit that part and redirect it to the target audience.

Much of modern backlash to the prequels seems due to RedLetterMedia, and I can't say I really agree with all of their takes. They seem to go soft on the Sequels just to keep this stance, and it gets too much credit for it's worth. They also often keep saying Star Wars just cannot be without the OT and I think all us KOTOR fans can happily laugh at that.

There are a LOT of people who love the prequels even before the sequels made them look even better, and it almost makes me wonder if much of the hate is spread by the media like the narrative that fans ruined Disney Star Wars, we're the worst ever and we drove Kelly Marie (fake) and Daisy Ridley (also fake) off social media, and the often nazi, racist, sexist comparisson and in the fanbase it's not that prevelant. Or is that just me being a wishful thinker?

[zbyl2 811]

On 12/22/2019 at 3:02 PM, Hassat Hunter said:

Much of modern backlash to the prequels seems due to RedLetterMedia, and I can't say I really agree with all of their takes. They seem to go soft on the Sequels just to keep this stance

They trashed TLJ pretty hard, not to mention how much sh#t they gave Rogue One.

Their take is that both those movies, despite being bad, are still better than the prequels because at least they're competently made.

And I totally agree with that.