Why isn't there an HD mod pack?

[Guest]

I've seen the original Deus Ex get a complete overhaul, twice now or so all textures, the HUD ETC- and I was wondering- why hasn't this been done for either KOTOR I or II? 

 

Yes, modifications like 4K Atton Rand and the like are most of the time extremely well done- but it's a tad jarring when there's a difference between him and all the other characters inhabiting the game, apart from a few if you combine mods- which can get messy. Hell, even Monolith's AVP II which doesn't have an official digital download to date has a complete overhaul mod- but neither KOTOR game?

 

I understand it would be an enormous undertaking but I'm genuinely surprised it hasn't been done. 

[Mephiles550 227]

Arguably, there are overhaul mods. You have things XarWarz' various texture packs (which do cover every part of the game), you have the Kotor Ultimate Overhaul and you have various other texture mods. There was also that weird Russian mod.

[Guest]

I'm talking about weapons, characters, ui- skins- the works. In one package though. 

[Guest]

XarWars OTE is kind of the basis of what I had in mind. Higher Resolution and detail but ultimately very faithful to the original.

(Apart from his colour scheme on the Endar Spire IMO)

 

Essentially I'd like to see Original Texture Enhancements for the whole game as well as some hi-poly model replacements for items.

In particular, if you were really clever you could make it so that the original textures were the "low" preset in the graphics menu.

[Sithspecter 909]

I'm talking about weapons, characters, ui- skins- the works. In one package though. 

 

Mostly because nobody has done a characters, etc. HD package.

 

Several people have done HD area textures, but people have different opinions on different ones, so there isn't a single, definitive texture pack even for most planets. I've done high quality (textures technically aren't HD) blasters, and Kexikus has done skyboxes, but that's about it.

[Malkior 476]

I've seen the original Deus Ex get a complete overhaul, twice now or so all textures, the HUD ETC- and I was wondering- why hasn't this been done for either KOTOR I or II? 

 

Yes, modifications like 4K Atton Rand and the like are most of the time extremely well done- but it's a tad jarring when there's a difference between him and all the other characters inhabiting the game, apart from a few if you combine mods- which can get messy. Hell, even Monolith's AVP II which doesn't have an official digital download to date has a complete overhaul mod- but neither KOTOR game?

 

I understand it would be an enormous undertaking but I'm genuinely surprised it hasn't been done. 

 

There are a few parts that simply haven't been touched as a consistent product, like the PC faces and NPC textures. There are roughly hundreds of models and textures that would have to be altered to make that work (And few significant changes from the Vanilla style, since most mods use the Vanilla assets as a basis)

 

There are a few Overhauls that I daresay have reached the level of HD, such as Jorak's module retextures ,Toastfresh/SithSpecter's weapon remodels, xander2077's masks, and possibly Nomnisang's high res icons; which at least address some parts.

 

(I know I've likely missed a lot of people's projects that are all aimed at reaching this goal, (myself included), though many are still in progress.. Frankly, we have an entire forum dedicated to things like this....)

 

Additionally, shaders and visual effects are still running off of the old engine, so in order to overhaul them, one would have to gain access to their file structure.

 

So, yeah,other than a few things, the only thing we would really need to do is work together to consolidate our finished projects if we wanted an all over "HD Overhaul", I think.

[Guest]

Sorry for the inability to quote, on mobile.

 

By HD textures, I'm simply saying that texture replacements that are of higher resolution 720p at least. & Less muddy textures.

 

Personally I think it's important to recognise that both games have a certain look about them.

That in the process of modding you keep it consistent, keep every character model to relatively the same poly count etc.

 

& I know everyone has their personal tastes, but IMO that should be governed solely by the question- "was it in the game in some form to begin with?" If it wasn't, maybe if it's a large and notable detail- it shouldn't be added in.

 

For instance, as nice as Jorak's Endar Spire looks- I have a problem with it in that the holograms are higher-poly than the actual character models in-game and the consistency makes me crazy in that none of the rest of the game looks similar. Nor are the colours very faithful to the original; I'm not saying that his work isn't well done, it is- more than I could ever do but as a "graphical update" to Kotor it isn't the direction I'd want an HD redux to go in.

[DarthParametric 3,783]

By HD textures, I'm simply saying that texture replacements that are of higher resolution 720p at least.

720p is not a texture resolution, it's a screen resolution. Some vanilla textures are already higher than that. 720p is 1280x720, or 0.92 megapixels. 1024x1024, which is the upper resolution of some textures, more so in TSL, is 1.04 megapixels. The point being "HD" is a useless and misleading term when discussing game textures.

 

Texture resolution by itself isn't as relevant as pixel density. It doesn't matter if you have 4096x4096 textures in the UVs of the model are poorly optimised and don't maximise the available texture space.

[Guest]

Well, I apologise I don't have a good understanding of these kind of things.

Perhaps what I mean can best be explained by saying, more Witcher 2 like textures on Ultra and Less like "The Witcher"-

[Malkior 476]

Well, I apologise I don't have a good understanding of these kind of things.

Perhaps what I mean can best be explained by saying, more Witcher 2 like textures on Ultra and Less like "The Witcher"-

Mostly a result of better/higher poly models. There is simply a limit on how good a texture looks on a low poly mesh, and we hit that a while ago.

 

Essentially, You can't paint a cardboard box to look like a potted plant no matter how hard you try...

[Guest]

It all depends on how you do it, Xar Warz Nar Shaddaa OTE being the most successful IMO.

[Guest]

 

& I'm not saying we go overboard, my earlier post talks about that. I just like consistently.

[Sithspecter 909]

There is simply a limit on how good a texture looks on a low poly mesh, and we hit that a while ago.

 

It's my opinion that good textures save mediocre models better than good models can save mediocre textures. I still think some different texture packs could be produced that could update KotOR.

 

If you're all for going the new models route, just take a look at Apeiron...

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

HD retextures packs go generally by planet, or sometimes by random categorization. On one hand, it's nice to be able to mix and match and customized (I have a Korriban reskin that I'm particularly happy with), but it's also difficult to find the texture you want to switch out.

[Malkior 476]

It's my opinion that good textures save mediocre models better than good models can save mediocre textures. I still think some different texture packs could be produced that could update KotOR.

 

If you're all for going the new models route, just take a look at Apeiron...

Oh come on..

 

I meant that in order to get the "Modern" results, you would have to use better model geometry, and yes an engine upgrade for things like subsurface scattering, bumpmaps, shadow filtering, dynamic lighting, and cubemaps that actually reflect the scene rather than being baked on.

 

Yes, Apeirion seems to be achieving this, except they've somehow forgotten to include Kotor within their own scope. For one, Unreal only works well with First Person, and Kotor is most definitely a Third Person game with face to face conversation structures. The focus should be on the characters more than the environment, but all I've seen of it are really decent background shots and literally no NPCs. (Probably because it's a million times easier to model level geometry and buildings than to make convincing humanoid characters) In my opinion, it's what's been keeping us back as well, since remodeling all variations of the PC, humans, and aliens to modern levels would take us a game studio's level of effort and time.

[Sithspecter 909]

Oh come on..

 

I meant that in order to get the "Modern" results, you would have to use better model geometry, and yes an engine upgrade for things like subsurface scattering, bumpmaps, shadow filtering, dynamic lighting, and cubemaps that actually reflect the scene rather than being baked on.

In my opinion, it's what's been keeping us back as well, since remodeling all variations of the PC, humans, and aliens to modern levels would take us a game studio's level of effort and time.

 

No doubt an engine overhaul would give better graphics, but then the challenge there is implementing the content in the new engine... (something we've yet to see from Apeiron).

 

On a personal level, I rather like KotOR's art style. I don't think it needs too much improvement, though certain things are glaringly bad. The characters are definitely difficult to remaster. A nice step would be to re-map the female models to use the male textures, which can be done now that MDLOps 0.7 is released. If that was done, it would essentially cut in half the amount of work required to remaster the armors/clothing. Of course, there are other character models/textures but they don't get as much screen time. I don't think we're ever going to see many of the character models get replaced due to the difficulty of weighing the skin with the bones and whatnot.

 

In any case, I can understand the desire to have high quality textures and models that are all on the same level. I hope somebody achieves this one day, but it's unlikely.

[Salk 374]

On a personal level, I rather like KotOR's art style. I don't think it needs too much improvement, though certain things are glaringly bad.

 

 

I completely agree.

[Guest]

FYI- Deus Ex Revision changed a few models so I thought it wouldn't be impossible. As has AVP Redux. But I'm not saying I dislike KOTOR's art style in the slightest.

 

Essentially all I was asking is why hasn't someone added an "ultra" setting through modding. Not changing the game stylistically in the slightest but overhauling every visible texture in the game, all character models at "4K" in the style of the "4K Atton Rand" with every environment and prop texture, still essentially the original but much greater in detail- less muddy.

Peragus OTE being a great example.

 

Actually changing the polygon count of things is unnecessary: especially whenever (For items anyway) we already have files on Deadly Stream that do this for all the weapons and lightsabers, where KOTOR 1 is concerned anyway.

[Sithspecter 909]

Essentially all I was asking is why hasn't someone added an "ultra" setting through modding. Not changing the game stylistically in the slightest but overhauling every visible texture in the game, all character models at "4K" in the style of the "4K Atton Rand" with every environment and prop texture, still essentially the original but much greater in detail- less muddy

 

Nobody has done that because of the difficulty and immense time associated with re-creating thousands and thousands of textures from scratch to a "4K" size, which would be completely unnecessary. Even a 1024 by 1024 would be four times better than typical game textures.

[Guest]

"4K" - I don't think that Atton Rand is genuine 4K.

[Revanator 60]

4K Atton is genuine 4K. 4096x4096 textures. Complete overkill. If I were to do a full texture overhaul I'd make it 2048x2048.

[zbyl2 811]

For one, Unreal only works well with First Person

False. Unreal is just a tool and it works great for 3rd person games (Mass Effect would be the most obvious example). it can be, and has been, used for literally every other genre if you know how to use it. Basically - same deal as with every other major game engine out there.

 

Only reason it's asdociated with FPSes is because that's what first version of the engine was good for and that's what example scenes are.

[Jorak Uln 458]

Sorry for the inability to quote, on mobile.

 

By HD textures, I'm simply saying that texture replacements that are of higher resolution 720p at least. & Less muddy textures.

 

Personally I think it's important to recognise that both games have a certain look about them.

That in the process of modding you keep it consistent, keep every character model to relatively the same poly count etc.

 

& I know everyone has their personal tastes, but IMO that should be governed solely by the question- "was it in the game in some form to begin with?" If it wasn't, maybe if it's a large and notable detail- it shouldn't be added in.

 

For instance, as nice as Jorak's Endar Spire looks- I have a problem with it in that the holograms are higher-poly than the actual character models in-game and the consistency makes me crazy in that none of the rest of the game looks similar. Nor are the colours very faithful to the original; I'm not saying that his work isn't well done, it is- more than I could ever do but as a "graphical update" to Kotor it isn't the direction I'd want an HD redux to go in.

to get back to topic, well, ive thought about this several times, what if Kotor is retextured in HD with exactly the same designs, characters, panels and whatnot. 

Basically like Skyrim HD. 

 

And came to the conclusion - it just wont look good. Especially TSL is full of recycled textures that are wrongly placed and in particular the panel designs are really bad.

You just have to throw a lot of them out of the window by hex editing the area models and put in tex that "would fit" that world. 

 

And about retexturing the characters - i have a program called Substance Painter which allows you to "paint" textures/noises etc." directly on models, problem would be just that you get 5 different textures (= heightmap, specmap ...) (instead of one for each Kotor model) when finished work. 

If its possible to get that thing to work you can retexture armors etc. in realtime while seeing them  in 3D.

[N-DReW25 1,336]

I feel it'd be easier to go on a massive download spree and download as many reskin mods as you can and install it all at once like I do

[Malkior 476]

False. Unreal is just a tool and it works great for 3rd person games (Mass Effect would be the most obvious example). it can be, and has been, used for literally every other genre if you know how to use it. Basically - same deal as with every other major game engine out there.

 

Only reason it's asdociated with FPSes is because that's what first version of the engine was good for and that's what example scenes are.

I suppose, but I meant that Isometric or Kotor-like (zoomed-in isometric rpgs) games don't get made on it often. Unreal was named after the FPS it was used to develop, right? Mass Effect may have had an RPG conversation style, but it was a third person shooter (an FPS from a different camera angle), and as far as I've seen, that's the only games developed with it. Unity (or maybe Source) is generally the best for a game like Kotor.

 

However, just because its easier to use for a certain thing doesn't mean you can't reprogram it with a turn-based algorithm. (It would just be much harder)