JC's WIP (Now taking requests)

[JCarter426 1,214]

Looks great so far! Plenty of space too. I was worried about being able to get to the placeables in the back, but it looks fine.

 

I think I can replace the camp one... shouldn't be too much of a problem. Either I'll edit the area model or, failing that, I can simply make the shuttle texture invisible and then add the placeable.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

The mesh needs to be brought forward a metre or two and have the walkmesh adjusted. I wasn't able to reach the clickable area to fly back to Dxun in the current position, but I think I can get it to line up with the indent for where the cockpit access is. I was actually thinking I could put some walkable boarding ramps next to it, so you could climb right up to the cockpit. I originally had the canopy up, but it clipped through the roof so I closed it for those pics seeing as you couldn't see into the cockpit from down on the ground anyway.

[JCarter426 1,214]

Walkmesh should be no problem. I hadn't thought of the clicky thing, though. Maybe I could move it with a script, especially if I end up having to spawn a placeable with a script anyway.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

Yeah I already made a walkmesh to stop you clipping straight through the hull, it just needs tweaking a bit in a few spots.

 

As to the clicky thing, not sure how the position for that is set/defined. It could be tied to the look-at hook possibly, will have to try moving it around and see what happens.

[JCarter426 1,214]

Clicky is most likely an invisible placeable, which would have its own coordinates. I believe I could delete it and then respawn it elsewhere with a script if necessary. Obviously less is better for compatibility, but at this point I'm assuming  a placeable would have to be spawned on Dxun because the area model might not be possible to edit due to room animation shenanigans, and the Onderon placeable might have to be moved, so a script might be needed anyway.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

A trigger maybe - to_403.utt - ?

[redrob41 86]

Hey JC,

I use the Rorschach Test quite a bit, because I need to see how my re-models are working with different animations. I was hoping that you'd be able to re-arrange how they are organized. Instead of [Fire and Forget] [Looping] and [Complex] would you be able to arrange them by the type of action, maybe based on the HUDs? What I mean is, the lower left HUD has Actions (passive force powers, stims, place mines, etc), while the pop up HUD has attacks, grenades, aggressive force powers or actions (unlock boxes, use computer, disable mines, etc). Under each of those trees, there could be sub menus for actions taken by the character vs reactions (like being choked or damaged).

Also, I can't find any of the combat animations in there. I usually have to run around and find some poor creature to beat up

[LiliArch 115]

I just love that label you gave... "the clicky thing".

 

Why do you need to script it? Unless you need it to move around the model, you could just edit the .git (as I assume the location is defined in there).

[DarthParametric 3,782]

Presumably to avoid screwing with the level more than is absolutely necessary (and thus maximising compatibility).

 

Btw, perhaps we should have a mod/admin move all this lot to JC's WIP thread. I've hijacked what is notionally a mod release discussion far more than I intended.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Btw, perhaps we should have a mod/admin move all this lot to JC's WIP thread.

Done.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

.git modifying is perfectly save though, I do it all the time.

 

Just, don't place them in override except for testing.

[JCarter426 1,214]

I just love that label you gave... "the clicky thing".

 

Why do you need to script it? Unless you need it to move around the model, you could just edit the .git (as I assume the location is defined in there).

 

Btw, perhaps we should have a mod/admin move all this lot to JC's WIP thread. I've hijacked what is notionally a mod release discussion far more than I intended.

 

.git modifying is perfectly save though, I do it all the time.

 

Just, don't place them in override except for testing.

 

Yeah, strictly a compatibility thing. Only need one script in one file for that.

 

I haven't actually tried it yet, but I believe I can simply remove the clicky placeable and then spawn a new one of the same type in a different location... and if I can't do that due to some nonsense with the file name or something, I could make a new one with the same data.

 

A trigger maybe - to_403.utt - ?

 

I did a quick run of Onderon to see how everything functions. You have to click on the thing manually in every situation. Not sure what the trigger is, but it could be the cutscene for Mandalore saying you should leave. In any case I don't think moving the placeable should affect anything.

 

Hey JC,

 

I use the Rorschach Test quite a bit, because I need to see how my re-models are working with different animations. I was hoping that you'd be able to re-arrange how they are organized. Instead of [Fire and Forget] [Looping] and [Complex] would you be able to arrange them by the type of action, maybe based on the HUDs? What I mean is, the lower left HUD has Actions (passive force powers, stims, place mines, etc), while the pop up HUD has attacks, grenades, aggressive force powers or actions (unlock boxes, use computer, disable mines, etc). Under each of those trees, there could be sub menus for actions taken by the character vs reactions (like being choked or damaged).

 

Also, I can't find any of the combat animations in there. I usually have to run around and find some poor creature to beat up

 

I'm working on the combat animations. I have some in my file that I've added as needed, about a dozen of them, but I've been holding off on a public release until I get through them all systematically.

 

I should also note that there's a limit to what animations can be scripted in K1 without messing about with files. If you have the toolbox beta, well, that's pretty much it. I could change the organization but that's all.

 

As for the other stuff... hmm, I hadn't really considered that. The way I've been approaching them is more technical; looping animations and fire and forget animations have to be scripted differently, and then the animations under complex animations aren't single animations at all, but rather scripted sequences of animations.

 

I see the value in your suggestion, though... and the menus are overcrowded and could use more organization. But I'm not sure how to approach it. Not all of the animations line up as nicely as you're describing; Force push is used for both active and passive abilities, for example. At the very least, though, all the GUI stuff doesn't need to be mixed with animations like yawning and eye roll. I'll have to think on it.

 

Feel free to bother me about it if I forget.

[redrob41 86]

I should also note that there's a limit to what animations can be scripted in K1 without messing about with files. If you have the toolbox beta, well, that's pretty much it. I could change the organization but that's all.

 

As for the other stuff... hmm, I hadn't really considered that. The way I've been approaching them is more technical; looping animations and fire and forget animations have to be scripted differently, and then the animations under complex animations aren't single animations at all, but rather scripted sequences of animations.

 

I see the value in your suggestion, though... and the menus are overcrowded and could use more organization. But I'm not sure how to approach it. Not all of the animations line up as nicely as you're describing; Force push is used for both active and passive abilities, for example. At the very least, though, all the GUI stuff doesn't need to be mixed with animations like yawning and eye roll. I'll have to think on it.

 

Feel free to bother me about it if I forget.

I can see why it would be easier to group them that way from a programming perspective. However, when I'm testing a model I'm thinking "can this body model bend over to pick something up? How does the mesh warp when it turns it's head?" not how complex an animation it is. Maybe the groups can be something like this:

 

1) Tasks

-Performing Actions (Activate, Equip from Belt, Inject, Pick Up from Ground, Pick Up from Table, Unlock Container, Unlock Door, Use Computer, Use Item on Other, search body, Set/Disable mines, etc)

-Reactions (

 

2) Combat

-Attacks

  -Melee Weapons

  -Empty Hand

  -Ranged Weapons

-Reactions (blocks/defence, getting hit, injured, stunned, etc)

-Dead [...]

 

3) Force Powers

-Casting (Cast 1, 2, 3, Crush, Persuade, Rage)

-Reactions (Crush (victim), Choke, Fear, Horror, Paralyzed, sleep (standing), Spasm, whirlwind, flying back, etc)

 

4) Personality/Emotions

-Greegings [...] (Bow, Greeting, Salute, Point, Shrug, Taunt, Touch Heart, Victory)

-Looking [...] (Look Left, Look Right, Nod Yes, Nod No, Roll Eyes, Scanning, Scratch Head, Yawn)

-Sitting/Meditating/Keel/Worship (and varients)

-Alignment [...]

-Idle and Dialogue [...]

-Party member specific

 

5) Creature/Droid

 

Maybe you could include a letter next to each name:

F = Fire and Forget

L = Looping

C = Complex

That way you can have a F and a L variation of the same animation next to each other in a list (like with Use Computer).

[JCarter426 1,214]

I can see why it would be easier to group them that way from a programming perspective. However, when I'm testing a model I'm thinking "can this body model bend over to pick something up? How does the mesh warp when it turns it's head?" not how complex an animation it is.

 

Yeah, I know... and it's not really the complexity that's an issue. In fact I'd be fine rolling all the complex animations into another category, because for the most part they're already clearly labeled. I only didn't do it before so I wouldn't go over the node limit.

 

But the issue is looping vs fire and forget. They're fired with the same function, but looping animations MUST have a set duration, while fire and forget animations CANNOT have one (usually). So when I or anyone else goes to edit one, we must be sure which type it is... and this is not always intuitive; one animation even changed types during development and is technically both.

 

F = Fire and Forget

L = Looping

C = Complex

That way you can have a F and a L variation of the same animation next to each other in a list (like with Use Computer).

Maybe you could include a letter next to each name:

 

Yes, this would help, good idea. And I agree a lot of stuff would be better together - all the sitting, all the Force powers, etc... so long as they are clearly labeled. I'm wary of shuffling everything around and having to get used to the new locations, but that's Future JC's problem to deal with. I'll start making a list of ideas and I'll be back with it before the next update.

[JCarter426 1,214]

A little thing I've been working on:

 

[milestails 264]

Yes! This would be a perfect alternative to the Lightsaber Choices mod. Awesome work!

[Haveayap 127]

A little thing I've been working on:

 

So I have been thinking, since most red saber crystals are synthetic due to the control over the crystals, could it be possible to add some new items to create your own synthetic Saber crystals to alter the colour, power, how stable the saber is etc. Itd be an intriguing concept IMO and could add lots of depth to the game Wiki - "Synthetic lightsaber crystals were manufactured within a machine known as a geological compressor. The original purpose of the compressor was to replicate geological conditions on distant worlds in a laboratory setting, and it was easily adapted for creating synth-crystals; simply replicating the geological processes that create crystals. The raw materials that the crystal was fashioned from were easily accessible, simply being minerals with a high carbon concentration. The raw minerals would be placed within the machine and essentially left to bake for a period ranging from twenty-four hours to four days, during which time, the initiate creating the crystal would meditate on it with the Force, guiding the formation and increasing the potency. This level of control over the formation process allowed initiates to create crystals that best suited their needs"  \

[djh269 264]

I would happily walk around Endar Spire, Taris and Dantooine picking up various saber/ crystal parts that sounds cool!

[JCarter426 1,214]

Yes! This would be a perfect alternative to the Lightsaber Choices mod. Awesome work!

Glad you like it.

 

So I have been thinking, since most red saber crystals are synthetic due to the control over the crystals, could it be possible to add some new items to create your own synthetic Saber crystals to alter the colour, power, how stable the saber is etc. Itd be an intriguing concept IMO and could add lots of depth to the game

 

I am planning on a crafting system. I haven't worked out all the details, although I have already done a lot of what you're describing. There are different crystal types, including the unstable crystal with the red lightning effect, and you'll be able to alter any crystal to a degree.

 

The main thing I'm debating is whether to allow you to build stuff from scratch, or to make you track down the parts for it. In my K2 version the goal was to get rid of the randomness of the existing system and make up for the poor lightsabers to Jedi ratio. Once you finish crafting your own lightsaber, you can craft as many lightsaber parts as you desire, although you are still limited by the amount of crystals in the game. In effect, you can make as many lightsabers as there are crystals, and there is not a dearth of color crystals, so I think it worked out all right.

 

You may be surprised to hear, however, that this is not what I had planned to do at all. Originally I wanted to make saber parts continue to be part of the random loot system. NPCs would no longer reward you with lightsabers and certain containers and stores and so on would also sell them. But I thought this might be considered an annoyance, so I changed my mind at the last minute. To process the gameplay into something that was rewarding but still fair just would've taken more work than I was prepared to do at the time.

 

The issues I'm trying to address in K1, though, are very different from K2's. I don't think K1 is particularly lacking in lightsabers, because there are so many Dark Jedi whose stuff you can take. The problem I have with K1 is the lack of customization. K1 has no upgrade system for the lens, emitter, and energy cell, like K2 has. K1 has fewer lightsaber crystals than K2. K1 has fewer lightsaber colors, and the two most powerful crystals in the game are limited to one color each. Those are the things I'm trying to change here. Due to the game's limitations, the only way to go about it is to let you make your own crystals - the opposite of what I did in K2. Allowing you to craft crystals, which K1 really does need, in addition to crafting parts as you can in the K2 version would allow you to make infinite lightsabers, unless they're limited by some resource. So I'm still considering my options here.

 

I would happily walk around Endar Spire, Taris and Dantooine picking up various saber/ crystal parts that sounds cool!

 

Well, I'm not sure how elaborate I'll be making the scavenger hunt just yet. It might still be more work than I'm prepared to do at the time. I'd be interested in hearing ideas, though.

[Haveayap 127]

Glad you like it.

 

 

I am planning on a crafting system. I haven't worked out all the details, although I have already done a lot of what you're describing. There are different crystal types, including the unstable crystal with the red lightning effect, and you'll be able to alter any crystal to a degree.

 

The main thing I'm debating is whether to allow you to build stuff from scratch, or to make you track down the parts for it. In my K2 version the goal was to get rid of the randomness of the existing system and make up for the poor lightsabers to Jedi ratio. Once you finish crafting your own lightsaber, you can craft as many lightsaber parts as you desire, although you are still limited by the amount of crystals in the game. In effect, you can make as many lightsabers as there are crystals, and there is not a dearth of color crystals, so I think it worked out all right.

 

You may be surprised to hear, however, that this is not what I had planned to do at all. Originally I wanted to make saber parts continue to be part of the random loot system. NPCs would no longer reward you with lightsabers and certain containers and stores and so on would also sell them. But I thought this might be considered an annoyance, so I changed my mind at the last minute. To process the gameplay into something that was rewarding but still fair just would've taken more work than I was prepared to do at the time.

 

The issues I'm trying to address in K1, though, are very different from K2's. I don't think K1 is particularly lacking in lightsabers, because there are so many Dark Jedi whose stuff you can take. The problem I have with K1 is the lack of customization. K1 has no upgrade system for the lens, emitter, and energy cell, like K2 has. K1 has fewer lightsaber crystals than K2. K1 has fewer lightsaber colors, and the two most powerful crystals in the game are limited to one color each. Those are the things I'm trying to change here. Due to the game's limitations, the only way to go about it is to let you make your own crystals - the opposite of what I did in K2. Allowing you to craft crystals, which K1 really does need, in addition to crafting parts as you can in the K2 version would allow you to make infinite lightsabers, unless they're limited by some resource. So I'm still considering my options here.

 

 

Well, I'm not sure how elaborate I'll be making the scavenger hunt just yet. It might still be more work than I'm prepared to do at the time. I'd be interested in hearing ideas, though.

Maybe for K1, you could get your main NPC to meditate on crystals (Like you normally see in the EU) where you can designate a certain amount of stats etc to that crystal and change the colour, stability and certain stats, than you have the main crystal that controls stability and colour and have another crystal where the stats you chose are implemented on (you could make it that you need both the colour crystal and the other crystals in the same saber so that it is all installed together, Im sure this would take alot of tinkering and time though). I think you are on track with the K2 version though, itd be nice to see more traditional forms of making sabers and there crystals than the ways it is done in the games, 

[JCarter426 1,214]

I'm not sure if all of what you're describing is possible in K1. Unfortunately the upgrade systems for each game function very differently. In K2 you can simply create new upgrade items and their properties will be added to all sabers unilaterally; however, in K1 the upgrade properties are determined in each individual lightsaber item file, so it's a bit of a mess making new ones.

 

I also got a bit carried away with some ideas I've had since yesterday. If I can get everything to function in the game, I'm going to be adding two additional hilt types and doing an overhaul of the lightsaber properties in baseitems.2da. Essentially, I'm planning to get rid of short lightsabers - they'll still be there, just grouped with regular lightsabers different - and use the third available type for my new ideas.

[JCarter426 1,214]

I know I've been cheating on my WIP thread with Discord and random status updates, but I hadn't realized I'd been neglecting it so badly.

Anyway, I recently ported the K2 robes to K1 and I'm currently working on the actually-for-K2 version of the mod. I didn't just port the robes before; I fixed various things on the model and made new textures specifically for the K1 items. I'm applying the same process to the original K2 textures now. For most of them, I'm simply updating them to fit my new model. For others, though, I've decided to make new textures to fit them better. That's where things get complicated. I've run into a few oddities.

First, one of the textures is never used in the game. There isn't any item with texture variant #5. I figured it may have been designed for an item that never made it into the game, so I went digging through the game files. I found this in dialog.tlk:

Quote

{10}Baran Do Advisor Robe

Skilled Baran Do often utilize their prophetic powers as advisors to the leaders of the Kel Dor.

The Baran Do are force sensitive members of the Kel Dor race. They seek inner peace and are very patient, consulting with the Force before making decisions.

I find that very interesting, but it just raises more questions. There's already an item a_robe_10 - the Norris robe.

Time for a little show and tell:

Spoiler

Above are all the fishy textures. Texture #5 is unused. Textures 7-10 use what I'm going to call the Baran Do template. They have a distinctive rectangular bit than the random bath robe folds of the other texture variants. I suspect that three of these were originally intended for the three-tiered Baran Do robes (novice, advisor, and sage). Given that Ossus was a Jedi library, I also suspect that the unused #5 could've been for the Ossus Keeper robe. If so, texture #8 presumably would then be the missing Baran Do link. Or maybe the Norris robe texture is the one that's wrong.

The point of all this speculation is that I don't want to reproduce this weirdness with my mod. I'd like to straighten things out.

I've already decided I don't like the Ossus Keeper and Norris robes looking like Baran Do robes, so I'm going to come up with new designs for them. I already have ideas in mind, so we can put those aside. I'm not entirely sure what to do with the Baran Do robes, though.

For one, we now have a pick of four different textures rather than two. Also, we might be dealing with not two but three Baran Do robes, if we include the unused advisor tier. I could use some input on both matters.

To implement the third Baran Do robe would require placing the new item somewhere in the game. I've already checked the random loot scripts and they won't support any new robe items. So it' would have to be placed manually. I have no idea where.

As for the textures, I actually like the Ossus Keeper and Norris variants rather than the actual Baran Do ones, so I might be inclined to use those designs instead. But I'm open to suggestions, particularly if a third texture has to be made too.

[ebmar 893]

On 4/5/2016 at 8:24 PM, JCarter426 said:

A little thing I've been working on:

Spoiler

 

That is amazing! I do really like the pacing from Dorak's dialogue to the lightsaber's construct- especially with the camera placement. I hope this project can came out eventually, as it strung-up a much better scenario than what already is.

[darthbdaman 71]

I went looking through the tlk after seeing this and found some interesting other stuff.

The Zeison Sha and Jal Shey Armors were originally described as heavy robes. I wonder if the original intention was for them to use the master robe model instead. The Jal Shey Advisor armor was originally the Jaly Shey Student Robe.

Master Arca's robes are named in the middle of a bunch of entries about Dxun and Mandalore's Armor. What became Arca Jeth's robe was originally called the Sunrider Robe, which is distinct from Nomi's Robe, which was mentioned in the same spot.

The Baran Do Novice robe oddly occupied both the {4} and {10} robe spot in the earliest entries (the description entry below {10} talks about advisors, so I assume that was a mistake). {10} was then replaced with (corrected to be) the Baran Do Advisor Robe, before much later being replaced with the Norris Robe.

There's a reference to Jedi Armor and Dark Jedi Armor, with the description that Jedi would wear armor under robes, and that mobility would be sacrificed. This seems to be the early version of the Jedi Armors.

[JCarter426 1,214]

On 1/15/2019 at 8:23 AM, ebmar said:

That is amazing! I do really like the pacing from Dorak's dialogue to the lightsaber's construct- especially with the camera placement. I hope this project can came out eventually, as it strung-up a much better scenario than what already is.

I'm glad you like it. I was close to releasing it, but I ran into technical problems with upcrystals.2da. I could go back and cut out the new crystals and finish up the rest of it, probably will one of these days.

On 1/15/2019 at 7:49 PM, darthbdaman said:

I went looking through the tlk after seeing this and found some interesting other stuff.

That's interesting, I didn't know about some of that.

I would guess Arca's robe is among the Dxun content because it might've been placed there in an earlier version, maybe before they added it to the random loot or for the E3 demo. Although, I don't believe it's possible to even acquire it in the original game due to bugs in the loot system.

The earlier Jal Shey and Zeison Sha items were probably before they had an armor model for them. I've seen the Jedi armor before, not sure why those didn't get made if they got the armor.

I'm fairly certain the Baran Do Advisor robes were replaced by the Norris robes, but to add them back in properly would require some edits to the loot, so I'm not sure how to go about it.