The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION

[sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY 60]

It is. Meh.

 

A mess that has its moments and fundamentally doesn't understand Luke Skywalker. Has two climaxes; makes everything from the OT feel like even more of a waste of time than Ep 7 did.

 

Rian Johnsson just isn't as clever as Chris Avellone and is too focused on all plot twists all the time with little real coherence or sense to a lot of them. It's not awful, but it's just oh so tired. RotJ's title feels like a cmmplete joke now.

 

That said, some well-executed scenes in amongst it all and some fun lines. I've seen worse, but I don't really see anything compelling me to watch any more.

 

It's safe when it should be different and it's different when it should be safe. At the end of the day we're still stuck with the tired old Empire vs. Rebellion on the brink with all the Jedi dead but one and nothing has progressed since thirty years prior. I could have skipped this and missed nothing of importance. And that's weird.

[Kreia 57]

The porgs are a marketing tactic

Well it's tough to get any more obvious than that, but personally I thought they were the only part of the movie that was actually amusing.

makes Poe, the most talented pilot and battle commander in the Resistance, look like a glory-seeking moron. They could have taken so many other directions with this subplot without cutting it out completely, but it was put in so Poe could learn the difference between glory and sacrifice

It was put in because they needed a man to antagonize the woman in power, as it's been the case in Star Wars since... never. And clearly they decided that the only way you're gonna love the characters you're meant to love, is if everybody else is made to be unlikable.

That ended up sinking into the plot, but not the characters, and that’s the first thing that this film got right.

TLJ got the characters right? I can't reconcile that assertion with the movie I've seen.

a concept that was briefly touched upon in some of the other movies – failure.

That's what I told myself the movie was about, but it's rather interesting how they picked and chose who was going to be part of that theme. And for Luke to be a part of it, I don't know that they needed to go as far as they did; Luke failed all the time in the OT, but it was all consistent to the kind of person that he is. Again, they're quite openly trying to kill the past, loot the place, and shoehorn their crap in.

not all of them are logical or accurate

Quite on point actually, most of them.

Luke even considering killing Kylo Ren after all the trouble he went through with his dad who was literally Space Hitler still bugs me. I know, I know, it was a split second thought and he regretted it, but, c'mon... The same guy who THREW HIS LIGHTSABER AWAY in the face of the Emperor and refused to kill Vader considered killing his own nephew because he sensed his emo phase?

Even if that were a completely different person, that scene still would have made no sense. Waves hand, senses darkness, whips out lightsaber. That's not a story, that's a joke.

What's this talk about the prequels being better than TLJ? C'mon guys, RotS is the only half-decent film in the trilogy

I don't know about that, they're probably not that far away from one another.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Are we all forgetting Jar Jar Binks & space politics?!

I prefer space politics above EARTH politics shoved into a SW-movie.

I love animals, Canto Blight was still a blight on the movie. I like woman. Rey is still cardboard Mary Sue, Holdo a total bitch and Rose should have been murdered by AT-AT's for cringe #2, moreso than Anakin's dialogue. Space/Superman Leia the most ridicilous thing to EVER happen in a Star Wars movie ever. Phasma is still as much a waste as ever.

I'm a man, and although I don't care males are portraited as failures, every character is just such a fucking moron. Hux got ruined. Luke got ruined. Finn got ruined. Poe had no point staying alive in TFA in the first place, and his "Yo momma" pretty much sets up his arch of being a pain in the butt for the whole movie. Snoke got ruined. Kylo can't even beat the guards Rey sliced up easily, making him a non-issue (there goes IX out the window) and then on Hoth he reverts to being a moron.

Yes, I get it, First Order are Space Nazi's. So was the Empire. Did we really need to make them a super-comical incompetant opponents? None of the other foes of Star Wars ever was.

As for Jar Jar, one comical relief character vs. ALL characters being comical relief characters.

Yes, I still stand by my statement the prequels are better.

[DarthVarkor 384]

Yes, I get it, First Order are Space Nazi's. So was the Empire. Did we really need to make them a super-comical incompetant opponents? None of the other foes of Star Wars ever was.

As for Jar Jar, one comical relief character vs. ALL characters being comical relief characters.

Yes, I still stand by my statement the prequels are better.

Riiiiight, because the Empire was SO competent in the original trilogy. 

 

None of the other foes in Star Wars were ever super-comical and/or incompetent? These guys want a word with you.

 

Oh, and so do these guys.

 

And those are both from within the first 20 minutes of the third PREQUEL movie. C'mon, you're making this too easy.

 

As I mentioned in my original post, I have a lot of issues with TLJ, but thinking that the prequels are better is not one of them. Sure, Holdo & Rose weren't great characters, and Hux was reduced to basically being a punching bag, but if you'd rather suffer through Jar Jar's incessant squealing every five seconds, then more power to you, I guess.  

[dg1995 28]

Is there any chance that in episode 9 JJ reveals that Luke in episode 8 was actually Luuke(The evil clone of Luke) and then Mark Hamill returns ?

 

 

EDIT: What's this talk about the prequels being better than TLJ? C'mon guys, RotS is the only half-decent film in the trilogy and even that doesn't come close to this. Are we all forgetting Jar Jar Binks & space politics?!

 

Well, space politics first came with Thrawn Trilogy books and people loved it then which is why Lucas added it I guess.

 

And as for Jar Jar he isn't the worst character that Star Wars has ever had. Ewoks were worse , boba fett was pretty awful in ROTJ that he needed the expanded universe to shine , Hutts are the worst Alien specie in SW universe .(Hutts should have been a Mafia title and Jabba should have remained human imo)

[UnusualCharacters 105]

TLJ is a total mess. I thought it was a joke as I walked out of the theater. Completely baffled as to how it is so well-received critically. Luke reminds me a lot of TOR's bastardization and total mishandling of Revan.

 

If you like it, man, I wish I was you!

 

5/10, second worst next to AotC imo

[Roth9 14]

I am just curious about one thing: What movie was worse the force awakens or the last jedi.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I would probably say TFA. All of it's questions being wasted didn't do it much good in retrospect, and it wasn't all that great in the first place, just as leadup. Since it failed at that, it falls flat.

On the other hand TLJ ruined my interest in future Star Wars movies, something TFA obviously didn't do, and fortunately, since Rogue One was pretty good, unlike the numbered ones.

[milestails 264]

Saw the film in China today. Was not impressed. English language with Chinese subtitles and little captions telling the audience who the characters are.

 

I recommend watching that review video that HH posted earlier - it pretty much echoes all my sentiments.

 

Some random thoughts:

 

Now I love Disney, don't get me wrong; however, the completing others' sentences stuff between Rose and Finn was just abysmal and straight out of any recent Disney film in the past 10 or so years.

 

All the "What is Snoke's true identity" videos made over the past couple of years were for nothing. His outfit and eyebrows for that matter reminded me of Goldmember.

 

The scene where Luke squeezed the teet of the creature to get the milk was pretty raunchy.

 

Laura Dern - Dr. Sattler from Jurassic Park was the first thing I thought when she appeared on-screen.

 

I might add to this later.

 

 

Overall, I just felt repelled by the film. Rogue One is definitely the best of the new films to have been released thus far. TLJ is definitely the worst. I don't know what they can do about Episode IX. I really don't.

[Kreia 57]

Found this in the youtube suggestions, he makes a lot of the same points we've been discussing, and he also mentions something about TLJ failing the "little kid test" which I thought was funny, and more about the movie not even having any consistency with its own logic.

 

 

[Hassat Hunter 571]

[Hassat Hunter 571]

The guy making the best decomposition of TLJ on YouTube is back... with one that's about thrice the size... and that's being part 1 of 3.

 

 

Good stuff again

[Gray Jedi Adept 5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw&t=157s

[Hassat Hunter 571]

The most awesome indepth review continues. Tune in next week for dissecting the problems with Hoth.

 

[Guest]

Christ, the more I think about it the more I absolutely despise this film.

 

You thought the prequels were bad?

Oh boy does Rian Johnson have news for you. No Star Wars film has left me so utterly empty at the potential it threw away. Closest reaction is probably Prometheus and at least that was interesting.

 

What a waste of set-up from TFA.

[Guest]

The most awesome indepth review continues. Tune in next week for dissecting the problems with Hoth.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gRC4L6lNoc

The last part was excellent btw

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Speaking of that, here's the third and final part;

[1Leonard 134]

I really don't think we need to lock this, after all, it'll be something to discuss for many people for a while, why take that away. I always hate it on other forums if 2 people go off-topic and the moderators lock it while interesting discussions are going on and the topic is still relevant.

I left in the posts where things where still civil, got rid of the rest.

 

Anyway, if people want to discuss TLJ, you can always do here; http://deadlystream.com/forum/topic/5898-the-last-jedi-spoiler-discussion/

Just... keep civilised, yes?

 

I checked out of that thread a long time ago, It is currently only filled with vitriolic fans who do nothing more than post videos about how bad TLJ is. I could do the same with videos arguing the opposite points, but why bother?

 

The same happened with the thread discussing episode VII (which I don't love but think is okay, just like TLJ), I spent quite a lot of time working on posts and trying to have genuine respectful conversations but it seems to me that a lot of the Star Wars fans here have some kind of personal vendetta against anything that is Star Wars post-Disney buyout. 

 

No one will sway anyone one way or the other, so again: Why bother?

 

And to hear an administrator of this forum plea to keep things civilised when he himself contributes to a very toxic way of discussion  (f*ck that random steam user for liking something, amiright) is something I just don't understand. 

 

If the point of a discussion is to be so poisonous that every form of opposition won't even bother to check your arguments out anymore, you won.

 

Hope y'all are happy.

 

 

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Feel free to point out what honest discussion with Zbyl was "very toxic".

And I would be interested in a counter video since the only defense of TLJ I've seen so far is attacking others, or platitudes ("Oh, it's so bold, and moves it all in a new direction"). Or just throw around it made 1.3Billion as "fact" it's good. If someone got actual points, I would love to hear them since that would be a first.

Anyway, that's all for the TLJ topic.

 

(I like Rogue One btw incase you missed that in the many points defending said movie from Zbyl)

 

This ain't that.

[1Leonard 134]

And I would be interested in a counter video since the only defense of TLJ I've seen so far is attacking others, or platitudes ("Oh, it's so bold, and moves it all in a new direction"). Or just throw around it made 1.3Billion as "fact" it's good. If someone got actual points, I would love to hear them since that would be a first.

These are all strawmen. I already posted in that thread and never used any of those made up points.

 

Now that you've yet again shown that you one of the people on this site who is apparently incapable of honest discussion, why should I, or anyone else bother?

[Hassat Hunter 571]

You've said you know vids with counterpoints.

 

I've spend a LOT of time on YouTube watching TLJ vids, and frankly, all of them liking the movie did for aforementioned reasons.

 

If you have ANY that are not, as stated, share them. Cause I haven't been able to find those on the Tube. Not sure what made you think I was specifically talking about you from above post.

[1Leonard 134]

Could someone at least have warned me before moving this post to its own thread?  I specifically said that I'm tired of this nonproductive discussion.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

You said you could give counter-point YouTube vids. I am just interested in those.

 

All I can find is what's said before, vids telling us we're racist/sexist if we dislike it. We don't know "how to watch movies" (That one was a funny one). We're whiny OT fanboys. All "defenses" I can find are assaults on dislikers, none about qualities of the movie.

But if you know any, I would be interested in seeing them since I can't find them.

[zbyl2 811]

Feel free to point out what honest discussion with Zbyl was "very toxic".

What did I do o_O

 

 

And I would be interested in a counter video since the only defense of TLJ I've seen so far is attacking others, or platitudes ("Oh, it's so bold, and moves it all in a new direction"). Or just throw around it made 1.3Billion as "fact" it's good.

 

I wouldn't say it's bold, but new direction is a definite pro for me. I understand the criticism, but for the most part the good outweighs the bad.

 

I like how the Force is portrayed in the movie. It was pretty amazing. That's the biggest pro for me. Everything with Kylo/Rey/Luke made the movie for me.

I do usually point out that I didn't enjoy it for the first 30 minutes or so and lol that space vegas planet.

 

The other thing I liked was actually being surprised by the movie. It's possible some of the "twist" scenes won't work as well when I rewatch the movie, but they did work the first time and I had an actual emotional response to what's happening in the movie. That was the first since... I don't even know.

 

I don't really care about people shitting on TLJ and I'm not really gonna defend it. (I'm only annoyed when people claim prequels are somehow better. Even Rogue One is better, just because it's shot semi competently)

 

No one will sway anyone one way or the other, so again: Why bother?

 

This is why I never read those thread past page 2 or 3. You just can't discuss those movies for longer than that without everyone repeating themselves.

 

 

vids telling us we're racist/sexist if we dislike it.

Lol what. I hate it when someone seems to share my opinion ("liked the movie") but then they do it for some dumbass reasons like that.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

What did I do o_O

We were discussing TLJ versus RO.

 

Apparently toxically so.

Lol what. I hate it when someone seems to share my opinion ("liked the movie") but then they do it for some dumbass reasons like that.

Apparently that's the media's narrative.

Racists. Bots. People who can't watch movies. Not enough nostalgia (but TFA did just fine in China, even Rogue One did better but let's not talk about that). Too much nostalgia. Fanboys. Anti-fanboys.

As stated I've yet to see a vid on YouTube actually putting forth points of content like you guys, so I'm simply interested in any 1Leonard *was* able to find. But sadly, that seems to lead nowhere :/