A Possible Cause of Lag? [The Thread!]

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Xuul recently released an video investigation on what causes the lag in the Industrial Zone in M4-78 EP. In order to understand the rest of this, you gotta watch the video.

To provoke discussion, I recently asked in a Status Update: What one placeable do you think should replace those droids?

Here's what was mentioned - in order, without my commentary - before I decided this subject needed a thread.

 

Rece

So, other than removing a lot of those crates in the lag infested zone. Or, this may seem like a really lame solution and unwanted, but putting a low res texture on the droids too? I know that HD textures can cause lag, especially when grouped up together, although I don't believe the textures are HD on the droids. But yeah, I know it'd probably make it look worse, but all the droids there look cool haha

Loki194

Maybe one of the large Terminals/Computers could fit there? Maybe status's of the other row of droids?

Sithspecter

Just dump the droids. They honestly add essentially nothing to the Industrial Zone. Anything to help the lag problem would be extremely welcome.

VarsityPuppet

Is there a difference in rendering placeable shadows vs character shadows? If need be, you could make droids with a lower poly model mesh. I'm not sure if that would make a huge difference, but considering each mesh on the droid is casting a shadow, maybe just having a generic blob as a shadow might be good.

Fair Strides

If that were the case, VP, you could just open the droid model in Max and try removing the Shadow modifier from the Trimesh modifier and then setting up a plane with no texture. Not sure if it would cast a shadow, but it should at least remove the shadows from the droids...

Canderis

I think just pulling droids out until the performance gets back to where it should be would be the best thing to do.

Logan23

I would say change the number of container PLC's, and for the research area with the droids- remove them and then redesign the room layout and test these layouts to see if they help with the lag.

There's a lot of votes for pulling the droids here. However, I did have a few ideas on what could replace those droids before I posted the question. Here's what I came up with.

1) Replace the row of droids with a video board that shows a row of droids. Have Jorak Uln or someone else make one of those fancy billboards for it.

2) Remember that awfully powerful droid that you have to fight in the Environmental Zone before you get to ES-05's chamber? Instead of having the row of droids, have one of those "awful" droids - and another new droid next to it explaining how it works. Those that inquire with that "explanation" droid will have an advantage in defeating the "awful" droid. You could even throw in Wisdom or Intelligence checks in there, I suppose.  I'll could even spring for someone professional to do the voice as I imagine you wouldn't have to write many lines. [Limit the conversation to 150 words or less so I don't break the bank on this.]

3) A monitor screen that - if clicked - shows a live feed of that row of droids elsewhere. Somewhere that there won't be a detectable lag. [Not sure how possible this is though.]

4) A monitor screen that - if clicked - shows a new BIK video of some of those escort droids elsewhere - perhaps a commercial/demonstration explaining how the carnage can be used to defeat the Sith's enemies. Again, if you write a script for it,  Again, I'll get someone to voice it in you can have the script have no more than 150 words.

 

Update: Please note that votes in the poll are anonymous. I don't know who voted for what and it was intended that way.  Also - fair warning - the BIK option won't be implemented.

[Fins 0]

I like the idea #1 more than other ones.

 

That is, personally, i don't have any lags whatsoever in the Industrial zone (770 GTX Lightning upon overclocker's Sandy Bridge, thank you), so any of the above changes would be undesirable for me. And i know there are lots of people like me - with some oversized and overpowered hardware... :D

[Xuul 224]

I like the idea #1 more than other ones.

 

That is, personally, i don't have any lags whatsoever in the Industrial zone (770 GTX Lightning upon overclocker's Sandy Bridge, thank you), so any of the above changes would be undesirable for me. And i know there are lots of people like me - with some oversized and overpowered hardware... :D

I have a more powerful computer than you, and I made the video being discussed.

 

Run the game while tracking frames and you will see a performance drop. Especially if you are playing at a higher resolutions ( and considering you are using a 770 i cant see you playing at a very low res).

 

The lag itself seems to emanate from the engine not handling it, regardless of hardware, with higher resolutions pushing harder. The game in general scales poorly with high end hardware.

 

The area shown will perform significantly worse than anywhere else in the game that I have seen.

 

 

As far as solutions I personally like SH's idea #2 or something like that. It is probably a bunch more work but it would add just a little bit more character to the mod. Edit. unless this too had an annoying shadow as I have not tested it

 

Of course we need some experts to confirm this would actually help. I only had the emptier  version of this from Stoney's mod to compare to and only did that after this video was published.

[Fair Strides 509]

All of SH's ideas would work, it's just a matter of which one would be best...

 

As far as #3, a person could chop up a section of the M4-78 models and make up a room and add it to the LYT file in an inaccessible area and spawn the droids and camera there...

[Xuul 224]

All of SH's ideas would work, it's just a matter of which one would be best...

 

I'll leave any discussion of this to the experts. Assuming anyone thinks its even worth looking at.

[Kainzorus Prime 205]

Put just about 2-3 droids in each section of that R&D area. One droid in a force cage/kolto tank as a prototype, and two others overseeing the terminals around it as designers. Or a broken bits of a droid on a table in the next section as a form of assembly.

 

Basically, go for the lowest common denominator with the visuals, while maintaing the illusion of an R&D facility.

[milestails 264]

We should put what to replace the droids with to a vote.

[Malkior 476]

I like 2 and 3 the best. Not sure how one would actually implement 3, but it would have a marked difference in my eyes toward the effect of a factory full of droids to have a camera feed instead of a "poster" of them.

 

Alternatively, those barrels are rather excessive, and you can get a similar feel by putting a few of them in a similar pattern instead of the massive number currently there.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I appreciate the input everyone. I put out the ideas but lack the know-how to implement them. Besides, Zbyl2 has Hassat Hunter take care of the EP's details now so I guess it would have to be him to do any of the ideas suggested.

 

Hopefully we'll hear from him.

[Squall Lionhart 81]

I prefer a vote, but I my opinion is that I feel 1 would be the best, considering the guardian droid has an awful shadow to begin with. No shadows would have to be rendered, and Jorak could expand his retextures to M4-78 (I know we want to wait on retextures and what not).

[ZM90 100]

I like Canderis' idea of just pulling the droids until performance is better.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

A poll has been added to this thread.

[zbyl2 811]

Could someone run around the Industrial Zone (and possibly record it - hi, Xuul!) using GIT file linked below? I got rid of majority of the boxes and droids in the Loading Zone and removed half of the deactivated robots in the testing area. It seems I still get lag spike walking towards the R&D, but the game seems to be running pretty badly for me, anyway, so I want someone else to test it.

 

You can put git in your override, but it will reset the area every time you enter it - so make sure to delete it after the test!

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vf04gm6w2qhcne/804dro.git?dl=0

 

 

As far as the poll goes - we're not doing BIKs for sure (unless someone wants to release it as a separate mod), and setting up a custom camera to show droids elsewhere sounds like too much work for me, so unless HH gets creative, that's also unlikely to happen.

[Xuul 224]

Could someone run around the Industrial Zone (and possibly record it - hi, Xuul!) using GIT file linked below? I got rid of majority of the boxes and droids in the Loading Zone and removed half of the deactivated robots in the testing area. It seems I still get lag spike walking towards the R&D, but the game seems to be running pretty badly for me, anyway, so I want someone else to test it.

 

You can put git in your override, but it will reset the area every time you enter it - so make sure to delete it after the test!

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vf04gm6w2qhcne/804dro.git?dl=0

 

 

As far as the poll goes - we're not doing BIKs for sure (unless someone wants to release it as a separate mod), and setting up a custom camera to show droids elsewhere sounds like too much work for me, so unless HH gets creative, that's also unlikely to happen.

 

I can probably do this when i'm off work later today. Ill run it once with and once without and splice it together in a quick video.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Thanks Zbyl and Xuul!

[Tyvokka 198]

I personally think that a video board might work best, too bad its not like  nar shaddaa where a lot of the views in that module are based off of the skybox. 

[Xuul 224]

Could someone run around the Industrial Zone (and possibly record it - hi, Xuul!) using GIT file linked below? I got rid of majority of the boxes and droids in the Loading Zone and removed half of the deactivated robots in the testing area. It seems I still get lag spike walking towards the R&D, but the game seems to be running pretty badly for me, anyway, so I want someone else to test it.

 

You can put git in your override, but it will reset the area every time you enter it - so make sure to delete it after the test!

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vf04gm6w2qhcne/804dro.git?dl=0

 

 

As far as the poll goes - we're not doing BIKs for sure (unless someone wants to release it as a separate mod), and setting up a custom camera to show droids elsewhere sounds like too much work for me, so unless HH gets creative, that's also unlikely to happen.

Sadly, this made about a 2-3 FPS difference at best. I might still post a video but I was having a weird issues recording, I might try again sometime tommorow.

 

That being said it seemed to sorta, shift the focalpoint of the lag slightly towards where the wardroids are a room back. So either this didnt quite remove enough "stuff" from this area, or I was dead wrong.

 

Although I did load up an empty of droids module and it didn't have any issues in that area, nor did the original M4 if I recall.

I just don't have the technical knowledge to get any further in this investigation at this stage other than "it's something in that area, and it likely relates to lighting/shadows"

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

As far as the poll goes - we're not doing BIKs for sure (unless someone wants to release it as a separate mod), and setting up a custom camera to show droids elsewhere sounds like too much work for me, so unless HH gets creative, that's also unlikely to happen.

Just note that a vote for number 3 in the poll is basically throwing away a vote due Zbyl2's comment. Just a warning!

[Malkior 476]

I'm curious. Is this possibly due to the looping "fire" and "move back" animation/script that is constantly playing to show the droids shooting the holograms or the sheer amount of options you have when testing their targeting protocols?

 

This is frankly the coolest visual of the mod for me and I'd hate to see it go, but maybe culling some of the droids and/or creating a static placeble that looks like a wall of droids behind them could help, if it's the issue.

[milestails 264]

Now that 1.2 is out, let's revisit this.

 

How is the lag now?

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Same as always.

[milestails 264]

Well that is unfortunate...

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I doubt it'll change since as stated and I also confirmed removing the droids does little. It's something else, but what... no clue.