HK-47

KotOR remake official

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I've played the original too many times to be excited about this, honestly I'm just hoping for an andromeda style shitshow at this point. 😎 Go down in flames baby!

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Imo, the best option is to keep the combat mechanic, have a new engine.

Expand the world's some/make them more lively. I wouldn't mind better/expanded crafting. That's bonus.

I am hopeful.

They should also troll is by not having the scene where you kiss Bastila. Make it fade to black. That would be funny.

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My biggest concern is that this game will take the episodic approach, limiting each episode to 1 or 2 planets each. FFVII did the same thing, the first teaser trailer back in 2015 never mentioned the episodic format the game would take. Now it's 2021, barely 30% of the complete remake is technically done.

The game much not be on league with games as legendary as FFVII to warrant such a massive scale remake attempt, but it's still a concern regardless. Please just be 1 complete package, even if it is a massive file size. 

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I guess the era exposure is cool but I... don't really need this. KOTOR 1 works fine for me and I've custom modded it to my tastes. the only appeal it would have for me is if I cared about the vague rough KOTOR era being connected to the Disney universe, or to SWTOr. And I simply don't, on either count. Maybe if it turns out to be a remaster or somesuch it'll have something for me.

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I doubt that it will be tied to it. It's a game from Legends. If they do it'll be a huge PR failure, as big as the ST was. It's not likely that it will be. Also, current KotOR is already tied to SWTOR. So that's already done. SWTOR is not tied to Disney Wars.

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2 hours ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

I guess the era exposure is cool but I... don't really need this. KOTOR 1 works fine for me and I've custom modded it to my tastes. the only appeal it would have for me is if I cared about the vague rough KOTOR era being connected to the Disney universe, or to SWTOr. And I simply don't, on either count. Maybe if it turns out to be a remaster or somesuch it'll have something for me.

Agreed. I've played the originals with mods so many times that they've become the definitive stories. Any deviation, even in combat or appearance, just seems like unnecessary modern hype. 

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10 hours ago, HK-47 said:

I doubt that it will be tied to it. It's a game from Legends. If they do it'll be a huge PR failure, as big as the ST was. It's not likely that it will be. Also, current KotOR is already tied to SWTOR. So that's already done. SWTOR is not tied to Disney Wars.

Disney isn't likely to not want new games and works to be part of their 'verse. Which is valid, it just doesn't interest me. And, to a degree that's true with SWTOR, if you play SWTOR or read SWTOR books. But within KOTOR and KOTOR 2 themselves there's no tangible link to SWTOR because it didn't exist yet. If by some miracle the remake is not tied to Disneyverse, it'll most likely have explicit connections to SWTOR within it, which also is disinteresting to me.

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KOTOR's needed this for some time, glad to see it, hopefully it's a faithful remake that improves upon the original in more than fidelity. 

Then give us a finished 2, and a real 3. 

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Long time lurker just downlaoded mods, but this news made me want to post, and I am so hyped for this.

I am actually hoping for an overhaul of the combat system to something on the lines of fallen order or force unleashed, but with RPG style combat progression, something to make the RPG feel modern.

Also hoping for a silent protagonist, it gives you more flexabillity  in terms of dialogue choices.

I hope it blows up selling records and motivates them to make a KOTOR 3(no, sorry TOR just does not count)

Edited by jakgogo
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3 hours ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

Disney isn't likely to not want new games and works to be part of their 'verse. Which is valid, it just doesn't interest me. And, to a degree that's true with SWTOR, if you play SWTOR or read SWTOR books. But within KOTOR and KOTOR 2 themselves there's no tangible link to SWTOR because it didn't exist yet. If by some miracle the remake is not tied to Disneyverse, it'll most likely have explicit connections to SWTOR within it, which also is disinteresting to me.

Incorrect. It is a direct, 100% link. It always has been. Kotor 3 became SWTOR. Not only did the developers state that all along, the story elements are directly linked since the game launched. If you actually play the story, it is clear it's linked. SWTOR also came out years before Disney. SWTOR is not part of Disney Wars. It is part of the very fleshed out and expansive KotOR era.

 

Satele and Theron Shan are the direct descendants of Revan and Bastila. Revan's capture and imprisonment was in the Revan novel, and our character was tasked with releasing him on the Republic side while Imperials were tasked with taking The Foundry resulting in an encounter with him. Later There was the incident on Yavin, and finally the destruction of Tenebrae in the Echos of Oblivion story. Several locations have parts from and mentions of KotOR 1 & 2. Just to name a few.

2 hours ago, jakgogo said:

Also hoping for a silent protagonist, it gives you more flexabillity  in terms of dialogue choices.

I hope it blows up selling records and motivates them to make a KOTOR 3→_←

Yeah, I don't want a voiced character either. Silent with the exception of switching to the character.

However, yeah SWTOR does count. The Echos of Oblivion story did all the characters justice. It put out what SWTOR should have gone to instead of where the KotFE/KotET stories did. It should have gone there much earlier in the Knight story imo, but it went there finally.

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37 minutes ago, HK-47 said:

Incorrect. It is a direct, 100% link. It always has been. Kotor 3 became SWTOR. Not only did the developers state that all along, the story elements are directly linked since the game launched. If you actually play the story, it is clear it's linked. SWTOR also came out years before Disney. SWTOR is not part of Disney Wars. It is part of the very fleshed out and expansive KotOR era.

 

Satele and Theron Shan are the direct descendants of Revan and Bastila. Revan's capture and imprisonment was in the Revan novel, and our character was tasked with releasing him on the Republic side while Imperials were tasked with taking The Foundry resulting in an encounter with him. Later There was the incident on Yavin, and finally the destruction of Tenebrae in the Echos of Oblivion story. Several locations have parts from and mentions of KotOR 1 & 2. Just to name a few.

That's kind of my point though. SWTOR took existing elements of KOTOR 1 and 2 to create its replacement to KOTOR 3, and I found that direction profoundly unsatisfying. The SWTOR original elements aren't in KOTOR because SWTOR didn't exist yet. Revan's agency being turned into him being brainjacked by discount palpatine didn't exist yet, what the mysterious 'true sith' Kreia mentions in 2 are didn't have a set answer yet, and within KOTOR 1 and 2 themselves, Revan and the Exile had no locked identity or endings, those being up to you. A KOTOR remake is either going to exist in disneyverse, or if it's not, it's almost certainly going to have more intentional tying in of the SWTOR elements that hadn't been created yet in the original.

Everything you mention is things that are introduced by a distant sequel that didn't appeal to me in the slightest and have no interest in seeing referenced. I can easily play KOTOR 1 and 2 and not be reminded of those things because everything SWTOR picked up on was just loose undecided strands or nuggets that had no answer. I most likely will not be able to do the same with this remake if it's not disneyverse because SWTOR shows no signs of being thrown out and the devs will build the game with SWTOR in mind. I'm fully aware that SWTOR isn't Disneyverse - that's why this feels like a bit of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. It'll either connect to Disneyverse or SWTOR (in a way that the originals didn't) and I see both as reasons to be very disinterested in a remake.

That's how linear time works. It's why if the Thrawn Trilogy had been rewritten in the late 00s its writing would be inherently affected by the existence of the prequels, the Hand of Thrawn Duology, Survivor Quest, and Outbound Flight in a way the original wasn't.

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49 minutes ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

That's kind of my point though. SWTOR took existing elements of KOTOR 1 and 2 to create its replacement to KOTOR 3, and I found that direction profoundly unsatisfying. The SWTOR original elements aren't in KOTOR because SWTOR didn't exist yet. Revan's agency being turned into him being brainjacked by discount palpatine didn't exist yet, what the mysterious 'true sith' Kreia mentions in 2 are didn't have a set answer yet, and within KOTOR 1 and 2 themselves, Revan and the Exile had no locked identity or endings, those being up to you. A KOTOR remake is either going to exist in disneyverse, or if it's not, it's almost certainly going to have more intentional tying in of the SWTOR elements that hadn't been created yet in the original.

Everything you mention is things that are introduced by a distant sequel that didn't appeal to me in the slightest and have no interest in seeing referenced. I can easily play KOTOR 1 and 2 and not be reminded of those things because everything SWTOR picked up on was just loose undecided strands or nuggets that had no answer. I most likely will not be able to do the same with this remake if it's not disneyverse because SWTOR shows no signs of being thrown out and the devs will build the game with SWTOR in mind. I'm fully aware that SWTOR isn't Disneyverse - that's why this feels like a bit of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. It'll either connect to Disneyverse or SWTOR (in a way that the originals didn't) and I see both as reasons to be very disinterested in a remake.

That's how linear time works. It's why if the Thrawn Trilogy had been rewritten in the late 00s its writing would be inherently affected by the existence of the prequels, the Hand of Thrawn Duology, Survivor Quest, and Outbound Flight in a way the original wasn't

Your logic regarding the elements is flawed for two reasons: It wasn't exactly a planned series and they don't have to be planned to still be canon. Allow me to elaborate:

The elements don't have to be there in the original. It only has to line up, and it does. Unlike the ST which had no plan and doesn't line up with anything, not even itself.

It wasn't planned in that what we got wasn't the original plan, so you won't have elements from later in the beginning. Current KotOR 2 wasn't planned by BioWare. BioWare was busy with other games. That's why BioWare didn't make it. For a planned series see Mass Effect. KotOR1 was the only one originally planned.

Next: The light side ending of any game is always considered the cannon one. The entire Jedi Knight series had light and dark endings. But the light was always the cannon one. SWTOR stating revan and meetra's identities was not an after thought. Revan was already male due to the comics (2006) that were out before SWTOR (2011). Meetra was already decided as female before SWTOR. You not liking SWTOR doesn't make it not canon.

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Actually, the first time I heard rumors that Aspyr is working under Kotor I thought that they will make a remaster because the first game certainly needs one. (without mods it is quit uncomfortable to play in a windowed mode at least on the laptop). And I remember that several weeks ago they were asked about the project and the answer was that they are making a remaster, not a remake.

At any rate, I'm super hyped that they decided to reboot it. At least now the cancelation of the Aperion project somehow is justified this way. And this is a way for new players who can't play games with old graphics (for some reason) to enjoy Kotor.

I really hope that aside from the remake they will uplift the original game but only in the way of resolutions support with modification compatibility in mind. And in the case of the remake it would cool if they make the game moddable.

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18 minutes ago, HK-47 said:

Your logic regarding the elements is flawed for two reasons: It wasn't exactly a planned series and they don't have to be planned to still be canon. Allow me to elaborate:

The elements don't have to be there in the original. It only has to line up, and it does. Unlike the ST which had no plan and doesn't line up with anything, not even itself.

It wasn't planned in that what we got wasn't the original plan, so you won't have elements from later in the beginning. Current KotOR 2 wasn't planned by BioWare. BioWare was busy with other games. That's why BioWare didn't make it. For a planned series see Mass Effect. KotOR1 was the only one originally planned.

Next: The light side ending of any game is always considered the cannon one. The entire Jedi Knight series had light and dark endings. But the light was always the cannon one. SWTOR stating revan and meetra's identities was not an after thought. Revan was already male due to the comics (2006) that were out before SWTOR (2011). Meetra was already decided as female before SWTOR. You not liking SWTOR doesn't make it not canon.

You seem to be just fundamentally not getting that SWTOR being EU canon is precisely why a remake doesn't appeal to me. The unplanned nature of K1 and K2 means that you can play them, and experience them without SWTOR mattering. Not so for a remake, which will inevitably be influenced by the existence of what has been decided and created since. In the cases of KOTOR 2 and the JJMiller KOTOR comic, that's a good thing in my opinion so I'm fine with deliberate hooks for those being placed in a new KOTOR 1 remake. But SWTOR? I would really rather not. SWTOR does far more than simply go with official designated canon genders - it gives set in stone appearances, voices, life directions and so on. Heck SWTOR material even completely recontextualises Revan and erases him actively choosing to go dark through being corrupted by his war, to replace it with the Vitiate material. None of that was decided when KOTOR was made, and a remake would almost certainly act as if it had always been there. Which would be fine for me if it wasn't fundamentally offputting material for me.

SWTOR's direction isn't going to be undone, and as a result it continuing to be EU canon is going to affect what goes into a KOTOR remake. It's easy to disregard things that were later established as canon in KOTOR because they never existed when KOTOR came out. That's not going to be true for a remake, because a remake will assume those thing as having always been the case and it will affect the experience unless it actually turns out to be a badly-named remaster. So yes, me not liking SWTOR doesn't make it not canon. That's my point. And that's the problem.

If it is just a remaster that changes nothing about the story then it's not an issue - but they're calling it a remake, so I'm going to assume that means we'll have much more deliberate SWTOR hooks and not various things that SWTOR came along to decide what they meant.

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26 minutes ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

You seem to be just fundamentally not getting that SWTOR being EU canon is precisely why a remake doesn't appeal to me.

No, that is not lost on me at all. You can dislike it all you want, that doesn't make them not related or not cannon, which is what you were saying. Maybe not what you meant, but it is what you said. You can dislike the remake all you want. That doesn't make it not canon. If the remake is changed for Disney canon, then it will no longer be related and in the vein of EU canon it will not be canon. It was inevitable that some content was going to do that at some point. And like I said, the Light Side choices are always considered the cannon ones. So SWTOR did not do anything different than what is always done with games that have optional endings and choices. The idea that Revan chose to go dark side was not set in stone. It was an idea placed in your head by Kreia so she could try to exert influence and control over you. She merely postulated it as a possibility, which I found to be pretty awesome. It also still follows that Revan did it that way. It's still possible that he broke free of The Emperor's control which was actually stated by Revan himself in SWTOR. I personally don't care for the emperor himself and all that stuff, but it is what it is. And to your point of it not being part of K1 in the first place, the idea of why Revan turn to the dark side was never even talked about beyond the fact that it did happen. In fact the only thing you get is that it happened because he disobeyed the Jedi and went to war. And if you're going to sit there and say that one version of doing what your disliking about SWTOR is okay but it isn't for SWTOR to do that then you're being a hypocrite.

I would also like to point out that some of your gripes about SWTOR is how the EU as a whole has always been. There is a lot of respect for the work of others, but mostly it's new stuff that was not mentioned before. I play K1 and 2, I don't do canon appearance and choices. I do my own thing.

Also, it is not a guarantee that it will be changed. I don't want it to be changed, like I said earlier. However, if rumors are true, Hale has reprised her role as bastila for it. While it still isn't a guarantee, it might be more likely. Less so for a Disney canon change. Just the thought of that makes me feel dirty, and not in a good way.

1 hour ago, heyorange said:

Actually, the first time I heard rumors that Aspyr is working under Kotor I thought that they will make a remaster because the first game certainly needs one. (without mods it is quit uncomfortable to play in a windowed mode at least on the laptop). And I remember that several weeks ago they were asked about the project and the answer was that they are making a remaster, not a remake.

At any rate, I'm super hyped that they decided to reboot it. At least now the cancelation of the Aperion project somehow is justified this way. And this is a way for new players who can't play games with old graphics (for some reason) to enjoy Kotor.

I really hope that aside from the remake they will uplift the original game but only in the way of resolutions support with modification compatibility in mind. And in the case of the remake it would cool if they make the game moddable.

I was hoping for that too. As much as I want a better engine, just updated textures and models would be enough for me.

And yes, mod support is basically a staple of KotOR. PLEASE allow for it.

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20 minutes ago, HK-47 said:

No, that is not lost on me at all. You can dislike it all you want, that doesn't make them not related or not cannon, which is what you were saying. Maybe not what you meant, but it is what you said. You can dislike the remake all you want. That doesn't make it not canon. If the remake is changed for Disney canon, then it will no longer be related and in the vein of EU canon it will not be canon. It was inevitable that some content was going to do that at some point. And like I said, the Light Side choices are always considered the cannon ones.

For the last time, that is not what I was saying and I'm baffled how you think it was. Whether or not it's canon isn't the issue. I have said that multiple times now. I said that nothing in KOTOR 1 actively links to SWTOR in the way that SWTOR actively links to K1. It can't, because it didn't exist yet when they made K1; time is linear. That's not a canon matter, that's a reality matter. There was no SWTOR in 2003 for KOTOR 1 to actively connect to, much like there was no KOTOR 2 - it's later stuff that connects back to older things if it chooses to. KOTOR 2, the KOTOR comic, SWTOR, they all pick up things from KOTOR to do their own thing with and link back to it... but they can't warp through time and have always been there, and that affects the experience, the vibe, the functional content of each work. It can only ever act retroactively. The KOTOR remake, coming after all of the above, is consequentially going to be influenced by all of those in a way that the original couldn't have ever been.

21 minutes ago, HK-47 said:

The idea that Revan chose to go dark side was not set in stone. It was an idea placed in your head by Kreia so she could try to exert influence and control over you. She merely postulated it as a possibility, which I found to be pretty awesome. It also still follows that Revan did it that way

Not really - Revan being corrupted by his war and choosing to do bad things is pretty much K1's byline. Kreia's postulated theory is that he was somehow doing a grand scheme greater good and wasn't really evil. These are not the same thing. The common theme either way was that Revan, be it because he genuinely went bad or as part of Kreia's theorised gambit, chose to do bad things. Of course, there was always an air of mystery, because it was never made concrete within K1 or 2. SWTOR ended that mystery, and as a result a remake of K1 is almost certainly going to take that into account. And much the same goes for the myriad other things SWTOR introduces that don't appeal to me - be it Vitiate, what the True Sith turn out to be, changes made to the background setting, or even simply the aesthetic.

24 minutes ago, HK-47 said:

And if you're going to sit there and say that one version of doing what your disliking about SWTOR is okay but it isn't for SWTOR to do that then you're being a hypocrite.

I didn't say it wasn't okay. I just said it doesn't appeal to me and I don't need it. Because I don't - SWTOR is material I primarily find severely offputting on multiple levels, so I personally don't find a remake appealing since that material I dislike is most likely going to be woven into the creative intent. That's how it always goes, and whether that's appealing or not always depends on if the person it does/n't appeal to likes what's being mixed in. If I felt differently about SWTOR material, the reverse might be true, but as it stands, for me personally, I have no need of this if it really is a remake as opposed to a remaster. If it was just KOTOR 2 and the KOTOR comic that were going to likely get deliberate hooks in a K1 remake, I'd be far happier, but SWTOR can't be put back in the jar, precisely because it's EU canon, and is in fact the only remaining ongoing EU work. So if you like SWTOR's direction, that's great news. But if you don't, then what does this have for you? Nothing, or at least, nothing that feels worth that change. Because that's the only reason to do a remake instead of a remaster - to change the original. They can't make everyone happy, so I think it's perfectly mature to recognise that this probably isn't going to be for me. Worst case scenario is I'm pleasantly surprised.

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22 minutes ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

For the last time, that is not what I was saying and I'm baffled how you think it was.

 

I can tell. However you stated such right here:

19 hours ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

 the vague rough KOTOR era being connected to the Disney universe, or to SWTOr. 

and here

8 hours ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

 it'll most likely have explicit connections to SWTOR within it, which also is disinteresting to me.

And again after that.

 

As I said, your intended point that you meant to convey was your disinterest in the remake because of your disinterest in SWTOR and you don't want SWTOR references in it, that it would be best left as it was. However you outright stated that there is no connection between Kotor and SWTOR. If it isn't tangible, as you said, then it doesn't exist. Period. Which is my point, again.

 

Your reasons that you stated for not liking SWTOR are your deal, and are your opinion. But your headcanon doesn't remove the link (which you have stated does), which is also my point. Again.

Perhaps it might have been better to say "I would not be interested if they incorporate references to SWTOR or Disneyverse..."

Also "Revan being corrupted by his war and choosing to do bad things is pretty much K1's byline." That's what I was trying to type when typing and it got messed up while editing. Onscreen tablet keyboard, it's being troublesome.

Now that that's cleared up, perhaps we can get back to the main point of this thread? I agree with your sentiment about K1. I would very much prefer if K1 story be left as is.

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What I think will happen is the remake will be considered canon(unlike TOR since it's before the disney era) and they might remake TSL as well, so they might decide to take a new route and make a entirely new 3rd game.

 

From my understanding everything before disney is legends(TOR included), the remake is after the disney deal,so new old republic canon it is.

2 hours ago, sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY said:

If it is just a remaster that changes nothing about the story then it's not an issue - but they're calling it a remake, so I'm going to assume that means we'll have much more deliberate SWTOR hooks and not various things that SWTOR came along to decide what they meant.

Valid point... I did not like SWTOR either, though I don't think Aspyr will try to assume what happend in SWTOR, in fact EA is not even invovled in this project ... it's all lucas,sony and aspyr, so If lucas gives green light to aspyr( which I think it will, because every material released post  Disney deal, is canon)to head a new canon, they could take the series in entirely new direction after the remakes and disregard TOR ever existed.

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This game will have nothing to do with SWTOR. I heard it’s a canon retelling of both KOTOR games, yes KOTOR and TSL combined in one game with overhauled gameplay and more modern combat system (ie fallen order or ghosts of Tsushima) . What has me most excited is where the story will take place, based on the new dialogue by Jennifer Hale (Bastila) that sounds like it could be said during the Jedi Civil War but before Revan was captured . Maybe you play as Bastila during the beginning of the game, Revan during the middle, and then the Jedi exile for the last bit. If so, this could be a long game . I’m interested in how they’re wanting to approach the twist in the first game…. 

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1 hour ago, mackmitchell94 said:

I heard it’s a canon retelling of both KOTOR games, yes KOTOR and TSL combined in one game with overhauled gameplay and more modern combat system

Hi  mackmitchell94

Do you remember where you heard about it? It's not easy to make the first game but both of them at the same time sounds a bit unrealistic.

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They're having some of the cast voice their characters. I hope they don't plan to do that for all characters. There are two major problems: Tom Kane is retired as of this month (Sept '21) due to a stroke, and Ed Asner isn't alive. I could believe it if they had Tom do his lines before retiring, assuming he was even able to. But Ed...

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