The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION

[Kreia 57]

TFA was mediocre, TLJ is aweful. You seriously think IX will redeem both

Nothing can, there's no coming back.

At least with TLJ you have some characters with personality

Pretty much agree Hassat Hunter, I hated all the characters. Space janitor Finn is as interesting in this movie as if he were mopping the floors the entire movie, he didn't even get to sacrifice himself, he's mostly a love interest for Rose, who of course risks her life and declares her love for this guy she just met, because why not. Holdo is the public service announcement for women in positions of power who get victimized by evil men with no respect for their authority, a way to take you back to our world and out of Star Wars, because that's what you want when you go see Star Wars. Kathleen Kennedy must be so proud. Gotta miss the old days when Mon Mothma and Princess Leia commanded respect and never had to play the victim.

Saw II and III in the cinema and walked out just fine, not soul-crushed "what the f*ck did I just watch"

Yep, when I watched the prequels at first I was too amazed to put actual thought in them just yet, there was no such magic with TLJ, it's like I was watching it from the dentist's chair during an operation with no anesthesia.

Mary Sue Rey the Undefeatable

Her being OP is not so much the biggest problem as the time and effort it took her to get there, or lack thereof I should say.

How exactly does that not mirror TFA and TLJ?

Then maybe I don't know what "mirror" means, because it sounds like more than just following the same formula.

Have your vomit bag ready

How about no thank you

[HK-47 84]

So I'm not going to read this thread (for your own sake and my sanity (remember my post about prequel hate?)), I'm just going to post these links here. It might be a duplicate of what someone else posted (sorry but there's no way to filter the thread to find that out). I'll let the foaming ragers do their thing. I ask that readers calmly and logically *reason out* the points made.

 

Side note: One of the sites, ThinkGeek I think, has a butt load of ads. Not popups and spam, just annoying and in a little in your face. Or it did on mobile version. Just a heads up.

 

https://geektyrant.com/news/rian-johnson-discusses-the-use-of-the-force-and-its-evolution-in-the-last-jedi?utm_source=gametyrant.com&utm_medium=related

 

http://epicstream.com/news/Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-Director-Rian-Johnson-Reacts-To-Negative-Fan-Backlash?utm_content=buffer20d51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Mutilator57 140]

So I'm not going to read this thread (for your own sake and my sanity (remember my post about prequel hate?)), I'm just going to post these links here. It might be a duplicate of what someone else posted (sorry but there's no way to filter the thread to find that out). I'll let the foaming ragers do their thing. I ask that readers calmly and logically *reason out* the points made.

 

Side note: One of the sites, ThinkGeek I think, has a butt load of ads. Not popups and spam, just annoying and in a little in your face. Or it did on mobile version. Just a heads up.

 

https://geektyrant.com/news/rian-johnson-discusses-the-use-of-the-force-and-its-evolution-in-the-last-jedi?utm_source=gametyrant.com&utm_medium=related

 

http://epicstream.com/news/Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-Director-Rian-Johnson-Reacts-To-Negative-Fan-Backlash?utm_content=buffer20d51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I haven't read all of both articles, but his point about the Force is total trash; the thinly-veiled justifications for a poorly-written story made retrospectively in a hasty and weak attempt to deflect any criticism.

 

All I have to say is that this kind of thinking is apart of the problem. It's the same type of stunt that GL pulled plenty of times in the prequels when characters did inexplicable and/or stupid stuff.

 

"Hey, it's the magic of the Force!".

 

That kind of freedom is fine, to a point. But I'm sorry, flying in space like Superman and astral-projection are too big a stretch for any sensible person, even within the realms of SW! Even if you think differently, the fact that we have to debate this detracts from the movie itself which is a clear indication of the plot's weakness. Part of why the OT was so good was because while the Force was always emphasised as a powerful presence, you never really saw OTT crap and if you did, it was always explained or justified.

 

With this, it's just meh...

[1Leonard 134]

Glad to see this thread turned out to be a respectful discussion with no personal attacks whatsoever

[Deadput 4]

Wow people really don't like this movie.

 

By people I mean the "hardcore fans" and not most other people such as the movie goers who these films are made for, yes fans your not that special and important as you think you are.

 

This movie was perfectly fine and I enjoyed it as well as the fact it did not go the way I expected it to, it does have a few problems but things like Luke's fate is not one of them, Luke went out in a beautiful way and that's ignoring how the film sets up his return in the next one having become more powerful by ascending into the force and becoming one with it.

 

Snoke's death was damn brilliant, they should have explained more about him yes but the death itself was clever Snoke was made way to powerful for him to have a reasonable way to be killed in battle or something so the only way to kill him decently was to have him be outwitted like all Sith are.

 

Plus I really did not want Snoke to be a complete Emperor rip off.

[ZM90 100]

Saw it last Monday, and hated it.  I found Luke completely out of character.  You mean to tell me the same guy who saw the good in the second most evil person in the galaxy would contemplate killing the son of his sister and his best friend for even a minute?  Really movie?  Also you're telling me the same Luke that defied Yoda to go save his friends is going to go hide and wait to die really?  There were plenty of other issues with the movie but Luke's out of character behavior was my main issue.

[Deadput 4]

Are people suddenly going to forget that Luke failed all the time? The only times he really won is when he accepted the possibility of death such as jumping off the ledge in Empire instead of joining Vader and throwing down his lightsaber in ROTJ and would have likely died if it wasn't for Vader.

 

Hell he would not have been able to destroy the Death Star if it wasn't for Obi Wan and Han solo.

 

Luke's characterization is fine and in character like did people even watch the movie? Luke only activated the lightsaber out of instinct and he regrets that he did but Kylo woke up and got the wrong impression, and i don't think you understand why Luke hid in the first place.

 

People change it's been 30 years and Luke is no longer the naive kid he once was.

[Guest Qui-Gon Glenn]

...there's this crazy talk about the prequels being better than TLJ. Sure, you're entitled to your own opinions, but come on guys....prequels better than TLJ?! That's almost 'Turn in your SW Fan Card' territory right there.

Ok, kid, I have one question for ya, before I take your SW Fan Card and rip it into confetti...

 

How old are you? I went to see ANH as a 5 year old at a drive-in theatre in 1977. The prequels are a mile better than any of the Disney Wars movies. Lol at your mother's milk loving baby hands taking my SW Fan Card.

[Haveayap 127]

Ok, kid, I have one question for ya, before I take your SW Fan Card and rip it into confetti...

 

How old are you? I went to see ANH as a 5 year old at a drive-in theatre in 1977. The prequels are a mile better than any of the Disney Wars movies. Lol at your mother's milk loving baby hands taking my SW Fan Card.

TBH that's a little harsh. the SW movies have never been perfect. The OT, PT and Disneys movies + trilogies all have their ups and downs. Admittingly I am not too fond of Disneys work thus far. they lack that special touch that GL added to them and all 3 of them borderline feel like they are set in another galaxy

[Kreia 57]

another great decomposition

He's a bit of an ass for calling Rose that, but I find myself agreeing with everything he said about the movie. 

be much more satisfied with this if they had left out all the stuff from the OT and called it a totally new thing. Then again I probably wouldn't have come to watch it

I totally would have come to watch it, there was absolutely no need to continue the Skywalker saga, a lot of people have been asking for a non-Skywalker story set in the same universe. They're like sitting on a gold mine with all these years of expanded universe stories they could have adapted, but no, they had to throw it all away and do their own thing.

I ask that readers calmly and logically *reason out* the points made

The points addressed by those interviews are only a couple, and not terribly important as far as I'm concerned. Leia's Mary Poppins moment was kinda sloppy in its execution, but the Force power itself is called Alter Environment and we've seen it before, just not in the movies. Force illusions and Force ghosts interacting with the physical world, again not exactly new. About fans having each their own wishlist, I say that's got nothing to do with liking or not liking what they got, and some things like consistency aren't just entries on a wishlist, they're minimum requirements. 

Luke only activated the lightsaber out of instinct and he regrets that he did

That scene doesn't make any sense, it's inexplicable how all that would happen in one moment. Luke doesn't take the time to think about what he saw, doesn't question it, doesn't talk about it. No one deserves to know, the boy certainly doesn't deserve to know, doesn't even deserve to be awake when it happens, even though the boy has yet to do anything to earn a death sentence. Whatever it is he'll do, Luke has seen it, the boy has to die right the eff now. Nothing short of preposterous, for anyone, nevermind Luke.

[DarthYcey 12]

Ok, kid, I have one question for ya, before I take your SW Fan Card and rip it into confetti...

 

How old are you? I went to see ANH as a 5 year old at a drive-in theatre in 1977. The prequels are a mile better than any of the Disney Wars movies. Lol at your mother's milk loving baby hands taking my SW Fan Card.

Hahahaha.....I'm a 70's baby too, but nice try.  Thanks for proving my point, bud.  I never said I'd take your fan card personally, but you pretty much lost all your SW credibility with your prequels being 'a mile better' than the newer releases comment, so you might as well take it and tear it up yourself.  The prequels are only salvageable through fan edits, but the original versions were garbage, especially the second movie.  The theatrical version of AOTC is one of the worst SW films ever made....awful writing, bad acting, bloated action sequences, etc.  The Anakin/Padme "love" story is ridiculously unbelievable and Anakin is such a selfish, whiny prick that the way his character is written makes it impossible to care what happens to him or root for him.  These lines are so cringe-worthy they practically sink the movie on their own..

 

"I’m haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me.".......“I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.”......"“I thought we had decided not to fall in love..."..............“Now that I’m with you again, I’m in agony. My heart is beating, hoping that that kiss will not become a scar.”

 

I saw AOTC in the theater and the whole audience was sarcastically laughing at how bad the dialogue was, and some even starting leaving the theater.  Even today, I just want to fast-forward anytime Ani/Padme are talking to each other...I'm picking on AOTC, but in actuality, all three prequels suffer from the same dialogue and pacing issues, include cartoonish characters who add nothing significant to the story, and then the movies try to suck you in with excessive CGI sequences to cover up the story problems instead of fixing the issues and editing the scenes tighter.  Let's put the prequel bookends aside for a moment and get back to the newer films......I challenge you to demonstrate how AOTC alone is a better movie than TFA or TLJ.  I'll wait..........

[Guest]

Don't expect to get anything worthwhile.

[Kreia 57]

challenge you to demonstrate how AOTC alone is a better movie than TFA or TLJ

A challenge easily won just looking at what movie does less damage. No one is going to tell you AOTC is a good movie, but it does less damage than TLJ, no question.

[DarthYcey 12]

A challenge easily won just looking at what movie does less damage. No one is going to tell you AOTC is a good movie, but it does less damage than TLJ, no question.

Umm, WRONG!..  That demonstrates nothing, which isn't unexpected because no one is going to be able to defend that movie as being better.  Simply saying it does less damage though means nothing, and frankly isn't known (especially with a whole movie to go).  AOTC was panned by fans and critics and is a worse movie, end of story.  Also, I wasn't asking for your opinion anyway.  QGG was the one who said the prequels were miles better movies, so I want to hear why he thinks so, especially AOTC.

[Guest Qui-Gon Glenn]

As a whole, the 3 prequels have been substantially better than the 3 Disney Wars, and it's not even close.

 

I will give you that AOTC is an abomination, there is no avoiding it. However, a simple fan edit (as you mentioned) makes Ep 1 an actually good movie, and despite my hating of several parts of that movie, it set things up and had interesting characters and felt appropriately Star Warsy. RotS is my third favorite Star Wars movie - wanna argue more?

 

I would still rather watch AotC than any of the three Disney Wars movies. AotC never made me say - "eff this, I'm done", which I did do after TFA.

 

The damage done to this franchise was not irreparable in the Prequels. The franchise is now destroyed, and you're happy about. You're also my age, so you've lived long enough.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

That scene doesn't make any sense, it's inexplicable how all that would happen in one moment. Luke doesn't take the time to think about what he saw, doesn't question it, doesn't talk about it. No one deserves to know, the boy certainly doesn't deserve to know, doesn't even deserve to be awake when it happens, even though the boy has yet to do anything to earn a death sentence. Whatever it is he'll do, Luke has seen it, the boy has to die right the eff now. Nothing short of preposterous, for anyone, nevermind Luke.

Reminds me of Batman vs. Superman. Horrible movie. But after all movies, games etc. all showing Batman doesn't kill here he suddenly goes "kill mode" on someone who has done nothing wrong, only for the extreme slight possibility it can happen without having any evidence for it to be a reality. Come in Retard Batman. Really, entire movie I couldn't shake the feeling Batman was a total moron. I was WAITING for the scene where the butler would slap some sense into him. But that never happend :/. No correlation whatsoever (played by a bad actor didn't help). Sadly, that was the LEAST of the issues of that movie, just like here :/.

 

@DarthYcey; I know you're describing the prequels, but every con you mention I can nod on being an issue with the new trilogy. So I re-itterate; Yes the prequels beat the new trilogy. I seriously doubt IX changes that since III was the strongest of the 3 aswell. And with zero leadup to IX given, character stagnation and the dead of several of the most interesting characters (not to mention the entire evaporation of any kind of threat from the "enemy") it's very doubtful it'll be a good movie in the slightest.

 

(I do like Rogue One though)

[DarthYcey 12]

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree then because we obviously have different views about each trilogy.  Love or hate it, a new era of SW is here, so either get on board or go watch something else.  I know what I'll be doing.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Watch a franchise after it's dead and will no longer produce movies? Seeing how they officially call Solo a "total failure" already 6 months in advance... I somewhat doubt mr. Rian's trilogy has that much of a promising future, or the franchise as a whole.

[Guest Qui-Gon Glenn]

I got off board. Not even sure what the ship you're riding is called, tbh. Millenial Bandwagon?

[jc2 581]

CAUTION: TOXIC WASTE

 

 

I hate TLJ. 

 

Luke Skywalker... pathetic...

 

1) Luke cuts himself off from the Force. I'm sorry but when are you able to do that? F*****ng stole that****** from TSL. The Exile only lost connection to the Force because of Malachor, we all know what happened there. It wasn't just losing a few students to a hormonal Darth Vader wannabe.

 

2) Mark Hamil hated Luke Skywalker in TLJ, because he was killing a heroic legend of character to be replaced by a moody wannabe Grey Jedi. I feel the same way..... 

 

3) Luke does not care that the galaxy is suffering from his mistake and doesn't man up, that is pathetic.

 

4) Luke never trains Rey, though she seems to only be getting better at weilding the Force and lightsabers.....

 

5) Luke blames religion, instead of manning up for his failures. On top of that jedi "religion" what??!??! There was the Jedi Order, it was a philosophy, not a RELIGION. 

 

6) 50% of that movie was watching and old Luke mope. I could not have been more bored by a movie, if I was jetlagged and had the flu.

 

7) Han dies. Luke doesn't care. Leia is going to die. Luke doesn't care. The galaxy is going to ruled by the Sith. Luke doesn't care.

 

8) Force ghost at the end? Then human form, then force ghost again? Instead of good lightsaber battle, just a smoke and mirrors illusion trick. Really Disney that's the best you got? 

 

9) Luke didn't have an original ending, he'll just be force ghost training Rey... just like old Ben. Very original, much wow.

 

10) Luke blames the Jedi for all his problems and decides the galaxy is better off without them, though the Jedi *he* and his Father saved the galaxy by defeating the Empire, the first Death Star, and the emperor. 

 

Rey

 

1) Never trained by any Jedi, still able to make Kylo Ren look bad by constantly besting him in whatever fight.

 

2) Has access to ancient Jedi knowledge to learn about becoming a Jedi, but chooses to never read them.

 

3) When did Rey receive military training or combat training with a vibrosword/lightsaber? Last I remember, she just wielded a quarterstaff. Just like TFA, why is she so skilled with the lightsaber? Prequels aside with years of jedi training, even Luke had to take time to learn to fight with a lightsaber.

 

4) Rey escaping from the First Order flagship in Snoke's personal ship. The scene shifts from both of them force pushing each other, to Kylo Ren beign FOrce Pushed onto the DECK of the Flagship. I'm sorry did he just go through a few dozen walls??!! Then he gets up and says, Rey left in Snoke's ship? As in just now, while you were being force pushed? Why don't we shoot that down? Later she is shown in the Falcon, where is Snoke's ship!? Couldn't we picked up more rebels with another ship?

 

5) Rey is infatuated with the Jedi, even after seeing the last jedi betray one of his apprentices out of "fear." What is so great about the Jedi that she's seen, everything in the movie points to how lame the Jedi are. Where is her motivation, as a character, coming from to become a Jedi? 

What does she see in Jedi that make her want to so desperately be one? 

 

6)  Rey commands the Force to save everyone at the end. A few explosives would have done the job just fine, easily removing a couple of rocks. Really people, do we need the FOrce to save us everytime the good guys run into trouble?

 

7) Rey gives into the Darkside without a moment's hesitation. Good thing the great "darkness" Luke was talking about wasn't anything at all.

 

8) Rey is referred to as Kylo Ren's equal in raw power, but seems to be best him or counter him, without any training.

 

9) Rey is magically picked up by the Falcon, even though there is a First Order fleet above.

 

Kylo Ren

 

1) Wannabe Darth vader, decides he CANNOT actually be as good as his father, once Snoke points that out, so instead of rising to his high standards competely destroys them. I cannot be darth vader's successor, might as well give up. Lame, lame, lame. His character doesn't develop here, it merely ruins whatever development they had.

 

2) The scene when he destroys his helmet carries no emotional weight. It should be been extended and had its own soundtrack. It was 2 seconds, and I didn't care at all. 

 

3) Kylo Ren has not finished his training under Luke, nor under Snoke. He's going to be a trash Sith, but good for him the Jedi, Rey, is just as bad.

 

4) Kylo Ren has a force vision about Rey's parents, that makes him believe she'll be turned to the Dark side. How does that make sense? It confirms that she has no ties to be a jedi at least, once again begging the question of why does Rey care to be a jedi. Still, why would she join Kylo Ren. Her father figure, Han Solo, was killed by this guy.

 

5) He couldn't actually defeat his master Snoke... he had to trick him, once again a lesser Sith kills a more powerful Sith, and the Sith suffer because of it. And I miss out on a great lightsaber battle... and instead get star wars Red guards anime reboot with all new ***** weapons.

 

6) Those Red Imperial Guard cheap Disney knockoffs, looked like children's toys and their weapons were as far from star wars as possible. That entire fight scene played out terribly, reminding you just how bad of duelist both Rey and Kylo are. Both of them had trouble killing the guards to Snoke, imagine if Snoke had actually fought them?

 

7) His acquisition of leadership was poorly done. Since no other First Order leadership has been shown, I really cannot say much. But it seems foolish to think that a brainwashed society loyal to (never explained what they are loyal to), would just follow Kylo Ren as the new supreme leader. Vader commanded the fear and respect of those under him. The Emperor respected, feared, and revered even by his Imperial subjects. Kylo Ren just feared, because nobody knows if he's going to throw a fit like a child and break stuff again. Even the general, was not sure what to do and had to be force choked to admit Kylo was the new supreme leader.

 

 

&&&

 

Plot wise: Snoke was actually a great character, they killed him right when he was awesome, just for a twist...

His comments about Rey and Kylo were well said.

 

Killing off Phasma was a terrible idea, once again killing the Empire/First Order narration of Star Wars. I hated her character, because of how pathetic they made her out to be, she was beaten in every fight and never did anything of value. Her death just means that First Order troopers are still canon fodder that no one will care about unless they become "good guy rebels."

 

Why the ******** did the Dreadnaught at the beginning not have any shields?

Since when can 1 starfighter take down over 12 turrents that are designed to destroy fighters.

 

Does nobody in the First Order use Tie-fighters to defend against incoming enemy fighters like they did in original trilogy!?

Because I"ve played Empire At War, I can only marvel at the incompetence of 1) having a GENERAL command a fleet, 2) not having a single admiral, 3) not deploying fighters to engage and destroy the transports, 4) not moving your Super Star Destroyers into place to attack the Resistance's ships, 5) not deploying bombers to attack their ships, 6) not having SHIELDS on the DREADNOUGHT, 7) that one bomber payload shouldn't be able to kill over 2,000 men and a capital ship, 8) does the First Order have a very low amount of fighters, because they didn't send ******* out, even though they had over 4 capital ships with a crew of about 2k each, 9) Snoke should have killed the General for losing the DREADNOUGHT, Darth Vader would have. 

 

I was beyond ********** outraged at the first five minutes of this movie, at least it was boring afterwards so I could settle down.

 

The Rebel fleet were jumped by the First Order, but somehow managed to outrun them?

In ROTJ, the Rebel fleet was overall more mobile than the Star Destroyers, but they couldn't outrun them. This is rediculous. Do you remember ANH? Where Darth Vader in a Star Destroyer hunted down Leia's ship, keeping pace with it! That was a correlian frigate and it was by far faster than the Mon Calamari capital ship...

 

Fuel? Really? 

 

Tie fighters, bombers? Ever heard of those? Deploy them to harass and destroy the rebel fleet, I won't buy the ******************** that the fighters would be "too far from the ships" as said in the movie.

 

Later on, the stealth ships are fired upon, WHERE IS THE ADMIRAL? What is she doing? Once again watching and waiting? That women is a terrible admiral, if it were me I would have immediately positioned my ship to obstruct the line of fire and save my transports from being gunned down!

 

Furthermore, like HH said, jump to lightspeed into ships, that's low and dirty. Though, it was impossible in the original trilogy because of the Interdictor Destroyer, which stopped ships from jumping into lightspeed. Admiral Thrawn used them in Rebels, so they are still canon. So I cannot completely throw that concept out, I just hated how it managed to hit several star destroyers who had been doing nothing that entire time.

 

Why did the Terrible Vice Admiral Failure not inform the crazy pilot commander about her plan, that was a gross miscommunication that almost ended up in catastrophic failure. That was simply to add drama and justify going to that ****** planet/straight out of a James Bond movie Bar scene.

 

That entire planet side quest during the movie did not feel star wars at all, and those guards were.... I have no words... just so bad...

 

Leia uses the force to save herself, just another slap in the face telling you she would have made a better Jedi than Luke, and wouldn't have attacked her own son as well.... 

 

The scene when Finn is about to be killed, switches rapidly to hundreds of FO troopers dying and Phasma who was 5 feet from him, ends up 40 yards away for a dramatic re-entrance... Ever trooper is pathetically killed by B-88 in a Disney-invincible-main-characters-kill-everyone way, nobody could shoot a large circle 20 feet above their heads? What do FO troopers use for TARGET PRACTICE!

 

Did the FO lose all their ships and bombers? Could they not bomb the ********************* out of the small rebel base on that Not-Hoth, certainly not ripping off both ROTJ and ESB, instead of just ANH... Could they not damage their communications and just starve them out?

Could they not bombard them from orbit like in Star Wars Rebels?

 

Why did they need "DEATH STAR TECHNOLOGY" for a "LASER RAM." You heard me LASER RAM, really? Just "fire for maximum effect" with your terrible remakes of ATAT to blast a hole into that door. Their ***** new ATAT sounded like a modern gun and less like a star wars laser....

 

How was FINN able to carry his girlfriend all the way back to the base without being blasted to peices by all of the ATATs, tie-fighters, and troops?

 

Commander Poe's justification that they could find a way out, if Luke found a way in. Was hilarious in hindsight, good thing for those crystal creatures... >,<

Luke talking to Leia about killing her son was total BS, was just going to Force ghost in and force ghost out. He wasn't going to physically harm her.. you could argue that he was speaking of the future when he would "train" Rey to defeat Kylo, but still that was lame scene.

 

Snoke is never explained. Who is he? Where did he come from? Why is he alive?

 

 

I don't even remember the soundtrack, until they used one of the themes from the original trilogy. 

In the end, it didn't feel like a star wars movie. Jedi Vs Sith. Evil Vs Good. Nope, not at all.

 

Just too much non-sense thrown in there, trying to do the Grey Jedi route but failing terribly, trying to make the Jedi cool again but failing, and trying to remake the Sith with Kylo Ren disavowing them and the Empire but failing. Not to mention killing off the Resistance entirely, only for them to have "allies in the outer Rim," and be happily outnumbered by the FO. This should have been a depressing ending, or at least carry some emotional tone other than bliss that they are building a rebellion again...

 

 

The only character I liked in the movie was Snoke, and they killed him. 

 

Disney continues to ruin Star Wars...

[Kreia 57]

F*****ng stole that****** from TSL

Insert Leave Britney Alone meme. I am hurt every time somebody brings up Kotor when talking about TLJ. Luke never lost his connection to the Force, there's no parallel with the Exile whatsoever, and the Exile herself is not the first occurrence of someone giving up the Force. The Exile straight up did not feel the Force after Malachor, Kyle Katarn had to tap into the Valley of The Jedi to get his Force sensitivity back, Luke didn't have to do anything.

[DarthTyren 103]

What can I say about this movie that hasn’t been said by many others already, even myself? I guess there’s only one way forward – just vent.

 

I’ll start by saying this – I loved the movie, so much so that I would in fact consider it one of my all-time favorites, that list not being confined to Star Wars. I’ll get to why further down this wall of text. There are some obvious flaws, and I want to start with those.

 

The porgs are a marketing tactic – there, I said it, and I’m fairly certain that this one thing most people can agree on. They serve no purpose save giving Chewbacca something to do. They take too much time away from the actual good parts of the movie. That’s all I can say about them.

 

The subplot with Poe and Holdo – in the end, it just felt like artificial drama that was put in to give the theme another leg to stand on. However, my feelings on this are mixed. There are really only two things I despise about it. The first is that it makes Poe, the most talented pilot and battle commander in the Resistance, look like a glory-seeking moron. They could have taken so many other directions with this subplot without cutting it out completely, but it was put in so Poe could learn the difference between glory and sacrifice, and that’s it. However, the fleet was in a no-win situation, and I understand the reluctance on the part of Holdo, so that kind of balances things out. The second thing, though, is that it also spawned the Space Vegas sequence.

 

Let me be clear – the only reason why I despise Space Vegas is that it, once again, spent too much time focusing on something that, in the end, didn’t matter. It meant nothing, it had no bearing on the rest of the story, no difference was made. But, again, that kind of balances itself with the theme of the work. I’ll leave it there. EDIT: I actually have one more thought on this - the only reason it's necessary is because of the drama stated above. It added yet another leg to the theme. It did also develop Finn's character a bit, which was fine.

 

The way they temporarily removed Leia from the picture was both awesome… and ridiculous. Enough said there.

 

Lastly, the film was extremely wishy-washy in many areas, as if the writers couldn’t decide what they wanted to have happen, or what they wanted to be true. That ended up sinking into the plot, but not the characters, and that’s the first thing that this film got right.

 

It was extremely gutsy. It focused on a concept that was briefly touched upon in some of the other movies – failure. It defied audience expectations at just about every turn, sometimes for good, sometimes not so good.

 

Be warned, this is where I become a bit more biased.

 

Snoke’s death is, arguably, the hardest part of this movie for me to swallow. I feel like Ben just thinking about it – inner conflict and turmoil. In the end, I decided I couldn’t exactly pass judgement on it until I see what it means for the final movie.

 

The way they handled Luke… I can’t actually put it into words how much I enjoyed Luke’s character arc in this movie. The way they went against the grain, the way they established him as one of the central figures of the theme, it was unexpected, yet extremely refreshing, something that this film desperately needed.

 

Then there’s the bond between Rey and Ben (I say Ben because that’s who it feels like Rey is connecting with, not Kylo) – oh. My. Goodness! That still has me gushing and hoping that they continue to evolve their relationship in Episode IX. It’s also one of the things that makes me scared for Episode IX.

 

But by far, my favorite part of this movie is how much it made me feel. I felt for these characters, I felt for their circumstances, and in the end, I felt like I was “being torn apart”, the film invoked so much in me. Maybe it’s because I’m a wimp, maybe I’m just a sucker for delicious angst, maybe it’s just because I can relate to the characters, but after I saw the film (five days ago), I spent the whole time since thinking ‘No! They can’t leave it like that!’ But, of course, they could, they did, and in fact, they had to.

 

Remember how I said I’m a sucker for delicious angst? My personal counter to that is it needs an equally satisfying end. I’ve never been so full of hope, yet so lacking in optimism. And the thing I hate the most is that I must wait two years to see if everything does, in fact, fall to crap.

 

So, yeah, I love this film, but I’m unsure I’ll be able to handle seeing it again until the next one comes out.

[jc2 581]

... etc..

 

....etc

 

etc...

 

etc.....

 

 

 

I don't want to be toxic, and I certainly don't want to divide a kotor community because of a recent SW movie.

 

So I'll be frank, like the prequels, the original trilogy, and these newer movies, if you like them that's cool. I hope you enjoy them.

 

But I do not, and my complaints on this thread were not meant to insult your opinion on the movie, I'm just adding my voice to the masses.

Obviously my rant had a lot of emotionally charged words, and several of my points stem from anger at other points, so not all of them are logical or accurate.

 

Before, anyone thinks I am trying to start a fight over a movie. I am not. 

 

To me, this community around SW KOTOR is the SW I love, regardless of my feelings towards other SW material.

And I would hate for anyone to mistake my feelings towards SW as an attack on their person.

 

So I caution the community, to not let their feelings towards the recent SW movies damage the SW KOTOR community we have here. 

[DarthTyren 103]

I don't want to be toxic, and I certainly don't want to divide a kotor community because of a recent SW movie.

 

So I'll be frank, like the prequels, the original trilogy, and these newer movies, if you like them that's cool. I hope you enjoy them.

 

But I do not, and my complaints on this thread were not meant to insult your opinion on the movie, I'm just adding my voice to the masses.

Obviously my rant had a lot of emotionally charged words, and several of my points stem from anger at other points, so not all of them are logical or accurate.

 

Before, anyone thinks I am trying to start a fight over a movie. I am not. 

 

To me, this community around SW KOTOR is the SW I love, regardless of my feelings towards other SW material.

And I would hate for anyone to mistake my feelings towards SW as an attack on their person.

 

So I caution the community, to not let their feelings towards the recent SW movies damage the SW KOTOR community we have here. 

 

There is no ignorance, there is the Force.

 

The Force shall set me free

 

O...kay...?

[DarthVarkor 384]

Yikes, this thread...

 

Well after finally watching the film for the second time I think I finally have a solid opinion on it. After my first viewing I was so unsure, and the more I read this thread (and watched reviews) the more I thought "damn, I don't think I like this film..." however, I did enjoy it a lot more on second viewing. Some things that bothered me first time around still bother me, I won't go into detail as I'm sure it's all been covered on here by multiple folk, but to be concise:

 

- Space Leia is still horrendous, I liked the concept, execution was awful.

- Luke even considering killing Kylo Ren after all the trouble he went through with his dad who was literally Space Hitler still bugs me. I know, I know, it was a split second thought and he regretted it, but, c'mon... The same guy who THREW HIS LIGHTSABER AWAY in the face of the Emperor and refused to kill Vader considered killing his own nephew because he sensed his emo phase?

- Admiral Ackbar's death was appalling, as many said he should have been the one to stay behind on the Rebel dreadnought.

- Why didn't Admiral Holdo tell Poe the plan?

- The whole cantina planet: be nice to space horses. I went to the toilet during my second viewing when that bit came on.

- Rose saving Finn completed f*cked up the rest of the Resistance, it's even worse when she gives her speech about saving people when THE DOORS TO THE RESISTANCE BASE GET BLOWN OFF IN THE BACKGROUND.

- Seriously, why didn't Holdo tell Poe the plan??

- Captain Phasma: what an absolute waste of a character, Boba Fett for a new generation.

- Finally, Snoke's death. I like the concept behind it, with nothing now stopping Kylo Ren, but again, c'mon! This guy was literally just throwing Rey around a room by lifting a finger, and he died because he "was distracted" and didn't notice Kylo turning the saber?

 

Those are my only real problems with the film, it probably seems like I hate the film but I actually don't, I like it more than I dislike it. The cinematography was great, Mark Hamill and Adam Driver gave stand-out performances, and the score and action scenes were fun.

 

EDIT: What's this talk about the prequels being better than TLJ? C'mon guys, RotS is the only half-decent film in the trilogy and even that doesn't come close to this. Are we all forgetting Jar Jar Binks & space politics?!