New Intro to Kotor II

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

So, I was trying to formulate a plan for the Make Darth Nihilus a hardcore, badass Sith Lord mod, when I inevitably became distracted by what a project that seemed much more enticing to me.

 

The idea I came to is changing the game to have a cold-open instead of the usual Star Wars title-crawl, using instead the cut "Sion vs. Nihilus" cutscene, maybe also including Visas Marr, if it makes sense.

 

 

Narratively, I wanted to try something new to establish The main antagonists from the get go. One of the menu screens features Sion, Visas and Nihilus and I found it strange that that specific dynamic is never mentioned in-game, though obviously they would be familiar with one another.

 

Another thing I wanted to sort of try is a fight between Darth Nihilus and Atris. The game marketing heavily leans on that relationship and yet we never see anything even remotely similar to that. My approach to this potential scene would be to try to establish Atris as a "hero" in her own mind. Maybe her fighting Nihilus could be a representation of her own conceit as the saviour of the Jedi? We'll see if I can put something together that makes sense.

 

That said, I want to keep the intro as concise as possible so maybe a scene with Atris and Nihilus doesn't make sense.

 

I'm still mulling through ideas, but I was wondering if the the rest of you had any fun ideas?

[Fair Strides 509]

Just off of watching that scene (never seen it before), I think that would fit in right after you head down to Telos' surface, or right after you get the list of Jedi Masters from T3.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

On 10/19/2015 at 7:31 PM, Fair Strides said:

Just off of watching that scene (never seen it before)

I actually recorded that video. That DarthAtton guy uploaded it for me way back when I couldn't figure out how to do that. LOL

 

I prefer this version of the video - as it has 5 different versions of the scene as envisioned by different modders.

 

However - back on topic: VP; couldn't you feasibly have a Sion scene at the beginning and then go straight into the title crawl? Many of the James Bond movies had some action scene in the beginning before the credit (and title song) even played. You could do the same here.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Just off of watching that scene (never seen it before), I think that would fit in right after you head down to Telos' surface, or right after you get the list of Jedi Masters from T3.

I was imagining it being at the beginning of the game. I don't think the lines necessarily conflict with the logic of the story. Nihilus and Sion had been hunting Jedi, so their assumption that they had extinguished all of them is valid.

 

Sion's indication that Darth Traya is still alive is may be a bit of a stretch, which is why I could remove that particular line if it seems too conflicting. On the other hand, it could be easily implied that Sion, out on the hunt, had come across the Exile in his attempts to hunt down Kreia... maybe. That is[/is] quite a big narrative jump.

 

VP; couldn't you feasibly have a Sion scene at the beginning and then go straight into the title crawl? Many of the James Bond movies had some action scene in the beginning before the credit (and title song) even played. You could do the same here.

That's funny because I had been watching James Bond title sequences prior to this. The Casino Royale one for instance. What Sion scene are you thinking of? I wanted to use this particular scene because it firmly establishes the setting and the bad guys. For a game called "The Sith Lords", it seems like a fitting intro.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

How to solve it? Just give Nihilus captions.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

How to solve it? Just give Nihilus captions.

I was thinking keeping his lines all implied meaning. It might be trickier, but I think it's feasible.

 

Another possibility is combining with Visas' intro scene... though that is probably going to be quite clunky.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Obviously Sion is aware Kreia is alive - he boarded the darn Ebon Hawk and got put into a Kolto tank on the Harbinger for his trouble.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Obviously Sion is aware Kreia is alive - he boarded the darn Ebon Hawk and got put into a Kolto tank on the Harbinger for his trouble.

Yeah, I just can't remember the specific order of events though. It's been awhile since I've played the game.

[milestails 264]

Very interesting ideas here! Further makes K2 the not your usual Star Wars story.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Another possibility is combining with Visas' intro scene... though that is probably going to be quite clunky.

 

I would think not, for that one. The implication in that scene was that the Exile was beginning to grow stronger in the Force, and Nihilus sensed him/her because of that. It wouldn't make sense at the beginning of the game.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I wonder if having the Sion v Nihilus cutscene at the beginning would make for a reason to restore that unused dialogue from Sion the first time you meet him on the Harbinger.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I wonder if having the Sion v Nihilus cutscene at the beginning would make for a reason to restore that unused dialogue from Sion the first time you meet him on the Harbinger.

This one?

 

"I have come for the Jedi"

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

That's probably the one I was thinking of.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

The idea I came to is changing the game to have a cold-open instead of the usual Star Wars title-crawl

Sacrilege, sir!

[sEcOnDbOuToFiNsAnItY 60]

I think you're forgetting just how vague and abrupt K2's start was... even with the crawl.

 

Still, give it a go and see what you can get done.

[l2daorch 19]

I love the idea of implementing some sort of fight between Atris and Nihilus. I still remember visting the official website every day and getting hyped for the game. I was very confused that Nihilus and Atris never really met during the game, let alone had an epic fight. I'm not quit sure how you'd implement it into the story as Atris is being dealt with before Nihilus attacks Telos, though I'd imagine that that could be switched with a bit of work.

 

I think the cutscene you showed was shown around the time you face what's left of the council on Dantooine the last time I played, not sure if it's part of TSLRCM or some other mod I used. I really liked it and thought it added a lot to the game. However, I do think that it might be manageable to put it earlier with a bit of editing and you can obviously do a lot by captioning Nihilus (though you'd have to caption all of his dialog in that case imo, not just for that specific cutscene).

Though the beginning about TSL is all about figuring out wtf is going on and for people who played K1 to figure out what happened in between the two games. I'm not quit sure if such an introduction cutscene wouldn't break that tension and mystery feel of the beginning.

 

I do think that Visas cutscene should stay where it is. I always thought it made a lot of sense for her to show up the next time you visited the hawk. In vanilla, Nihilus isn't really introduced before that (unless you farm enough Kreia influence to unlock the dialogue about Sion/Nihilus) and I always felt like the Visas scene was a great introduction for both characters and their relationship.

 

Generally speaking, I do agree that there should be more scenes where you get to see what the Sith Lords are up to. Kinda how you have several cutscenes with Atris and also similiar stuff with Malak in K1. Whether that's in the opening or throughout the game is a different story. I'd love to try either option to feel out which ones feels better. Maybe do a very rough version where you simply play the cutscene as it is before the opening crawl to see how it would feel?

[DarthRevan101 104]

Maybe the Nihilus vs Atris cutscene could have something to do with him not killing her on Katarr, and wanting revenge or something? I'm not entirely sure if that would fit with the story as I too haven't played in a while. Also, I'm not sure how Atris would stand against Nihilus, since he can seem to be able to drain the force from an entire planet.

 

Still, I would for such a scene to be included.

 

As for captioning Darth Nihilus, you'd have to be careful with that. Part of his menace as a villain was that you didn't understand him, but knew what he was saying was very "evil" (for lack of a better word.). If you wrote dialogue for him you'd have to make sure it's apt for a planet-killing, barely human Sith monster.

[Malkior 476]

I agree that this could be a useful mod. (It reminds me a lot of the Bastila battling Revan "dream" that happened in the first act of K1) It could give the player more motivation to figure out the story, and set up for a more climactic revelation during the Telos invasion in the endgame.

 

The only issues I see have already been discussed, as in the Visas cutscene being a more appropriate introduction for someone of his power, and the fact that he speaks in the Sith "darktongue", so inferred relationships would be difficult to show.

 

I haven't heard the Atris/Nihilis confrontation, so I don't know what dialogue of Atris would be capable of showing their connection, either.

 

Perhaps just showing them battle in the early game could serve a similar purpose to the first Revan " fight"?

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

I really think that a confrontation between Atris and Nihilus would be extremely unrealistic in the game world. Atris mainly hides -- she wouldn't be the one to go fight a Sith Lord.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Maybe the Nihilus vs Atris cutscene could have something to do with him not killing her on Katarr, and wanting revenge or something? I'm not entirely sure if that would fit with the story as I too haven't played in a while. Also, I'm not sure how Atris would stand against Nihilus, since he can seem to be able to drain the force from an entire planet.

 

Still, I would for such a scene to be included.

I believe Atris wasn't actually present at Katarr. She lured the Jedi there in hopes of drawing Nihilus' attention.

 

As for captioning Darth Nihilus, you'd have to be careful with that. Part of his menace as a villain was that you didn't understand him, but knew what he was saying was very "evil" (for lack of a better word.). If you wrote dialogue for him you'd have to make sure it's apt for a planet-killing, barely human Sith monster.

 

There will be no captioning Darth Nihilus. He would be mostly silent, except for when his Sith hissing would be necessary. No captions.

 

I agree that this could be a useful mod. (It reminds me a lot of the Bastila battling Revan "dream" that happened in the first act of K1) It could give the player more motivation to figure out the story, and set up for a more climactic revelation during the Telos invasion in the endgame.

 

The only issues I see have already been discussed, as in the Visas cutscene being a more appropriate introduction for someone of his power, and the fact that he speaks in the Sith "darktongue", so inferred relationships would be difficult to show.

Already concluded it's not a good idea. The only context for which I thought it might originally work is to immediately establish that Sion, as sure as he was that he had eradicated the Jedi, had not actually extinguished all the jedi

 

I haven't heard the Atris/Nihilis confrontation, so I don't know what dialogue of Atris would be capable of showing their connection, either.

 

Perhaps just showing them battle in the early game could serve a similar purpose to the first Revan " fight"?

I was thinking of just having them in battle. The problem is that in-game battles are hardly the most interesting...

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I really think that a confrontation between Atris and Nihilus would be extremely unrealistic in the game world. Atris mainly hides -- she wouldn't be the one to go fight a Sith Lord.

If it could be presented in a way where it represents a wish-fulfillment of hers, it could be effective.

 

But beyond having fight a "phantom" Darth Nihilus, I can't think of a way for that to make sense. Not to mention she likely has no idea what Nihilus looks like

[Black_Rogue 1]

The only thing I can say about this is if you where to add a Atris/Nihilus fight scene, the timing would have to be perfect or it would confuse people or simply be too out of context.  it would have to be Pre Peragus/prologue or after you land on Telos. But then it couldn't show after the time of meeting Atris. Because by then her goal would be to gather the Jedi, not hunt Sith lords.  But I do believe that such a video is needed to connect the cover and add more depth to the Sith Lords and Jedi Masters relationship.  Also to explain the "if this is a early game cutscene and she survives the fight, why wouldn't the Sith go after Atris as well" question, "yes im assuming someone is going to ask this question" She could either be presumed dead by Nihilus or be already determined corrupt and used as a pawn by the Sith Lords "which could also explain the reason she became corrupt in the first place, losing the fight and 'try' to be turned against the Jedi"

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Not really the greatest illustration I could produce, but I wanted to have a little fun with it.

 

The version I had in mind probably has more close-ups and probably uses music from the game.

 

[milestails 264]

I like where this is going. There is there there.

[Boilpoint 12]

I really was a little skeptical when you started this thread.  But I also liked what you did with that video.