Want this in TSLRCM?

[Hassat Hunter 571]

The question is for the following 2 "texture fixes"... Just trying to get what our community wants.

 

The first being Darth Insidious Goto's Yacht Window Update (Yes, we got permission)...

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/Gotos_Yacht_Window_Upgrade;103199

 

The second being the Robe Fix as outlined on this crappy comparison picture I made...

[Extreme110 4]

I chose only the Window Fix, as I can't see any difference in those images at all (except #3).

[tpiom 6]

Include both... They are really small texture fixes and not changes. No one will be upset if you throw them into the installer and have them included by default - maybe an option to disable them for those who don't want them? But most won't care as they won't even notice

[Salk 374]

I thought exactly as Extreme110. I guess now I know whose the second vote there is...

[hkmandalore47 3]

both, but i have one question on those robes: how do you get them? i remember getting them only using KSE, but will they become available like all the other robes in 1.8?

 

i think the movie-style jedi master robes mod should be included since i just love it.

[RevanStar11 0]

I think you can include both, maybe Robe fix is a small change but it's better with (maybe Natth's Cowling fix is not an "artwork" as you say, but it is better than the original, and the others are well done), so just add it!

[milestails 264]

Is the robe fix a skin? Or a model change?

 

Reason I ask is conflict with other master robe skins by other authors...

[Boilpoint 12]

I chose only the Window Fix, as I can't see any difference in those images at all (except #3).

 

Look at the collars. It's kinda like one of those "what's different?" games. I think they look much better (but maybe only because I notice them now).

[Senka 3]

Robes: doesn't see any differences... All of them look like bathing robes.

[InSidious 237]

both, but i have one question on those robes: how do you get them? i remember getting them only using KSE, but will they become available like all the other robes in 1.8?

Don't know specifically about Crado's Robe, but generally it's luck of the draw a to what you get from the game, since loot is randomised.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I chose only the Window Fix, as I can't see any difference in those images at all (except #3).

As stated, look at the colors (just below the head).

That's also the exact same difference for #3, the color is just different on the robe there due to a different location (Malachor/Onderon). It's not changed *at all* itself.

both, but i have one question on those robes: how do you get them? i remember getting them only using KSE, but will they become available like all the other robes in 1.8?

I'll just repeat my answer from "1.8 update";

To answer the question... The luck of the draw... and TSLRCM 1.8 of course

And yes, that includes Jolee's Robe.

 

(1.8 fixes many random loot issues, including that robes got cut by half, like other armors (who have 15 versions, not 30) despite the "// except for robes, armor uses a different level curve

// since there are fewer items per class" above it dev comment...)

 

i think the movie-style jedi master robes mod should be included since i just love it.

Custom made items are a no-no right away. Just fixing stuff here, not adding.

Is the robe fix a skin? Or a model change?

 

Reason I ask is conflict with other master robe skins by other authors...

Both.

It should work with other skins. They get a slightly improved collar from it, and if they change that stuff to be different on their robe they have a model overwriting it anyways...

 

I guess now I know whose the second vote there is...

Click "view" to see who voted what. I made it log that, since it's very handy information for here...

[Extreme110 4]

lol zbyl2

 

Alright, I looked again, and I can see a difference...I still stand by my original vote.

[Hunters Run 57]

If they are compatible why are they included? Looking good by the way.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

If they are compatible why are they included? Looking good by the way.

???

 

If what are compatible? Don't get it...

[Fair Strides 509]

 

 

I agree emphatically with Hassat Hunter;Of good quality, they are. But not complete, they remain. Voted for the Window, did I.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I think you should note, Hassat, that the inclusion of these texture fixes is not so much how they look (After all, the robe fixes can be improved *cough*) but whether or not they should be included in the mod, by principle.

 

Be aware that the robe textures are NOT restored content. They are simply us trying to fix bugs for what is a very unsightly, unfinished product. NOT RESTORED CONTENT, MODIFIED CONTENT.

 

If you think I'm trying to throw someone under the bus here, you'd be wrong, because I'm the one who made the robe textures

 

The issue is plain and simple - we're trying to draw a line here - and that's to figure out what exactly we should be including in this mod. We've covered a lot of the restored content, but we've also taken care of many of the 'bugs' that have been present in vanilla TSL. However apparent the ugly brown collars are, is it right to fix those with our own interpretations of the content?

 

To sum it up:

 

By principle, should TSLRCM include textures fixes?

 

If not, should there be a mod (separate, but affiliated with RCM) that includes all of these fixes?

[Vriff 21]

I voted yes to both, they are fixes, however small.

[DeadMan 103]

Voted for Goto's Yacht window update. Just because I use my own robe models

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I agree emphatically with Hassat Hunter;Of good quality, they are. But not complete, they remain. Voted for the Window, did I.

Well, they would be touched up before release of course so the 2 robes I question do meet our (or my ) standards.

Be aware that the robe textures are NOT restored content. They are simply us trying to fix bugs for what is a very unsightly, unfinished product. NOT RESTORED CONTENT, MODIFIED CONTENT.

 

The issue is plain and simple - we're trying to draw a line here - and that's to figure out what exactly we should be including in this mod. We've covered a lot of the restored content, but we've also taken care of many of the 'bugs' that have been present in vanilla TSL. However apparent the ugly brown collars are, is it right to fix those with our own interpretations of the content?

Yup, TSLRCM fixes a lot of bugs. Just look at the fixlist. Mostly bugfixes. Even the change to the lootsystem that allows these robes to drop in the first place is a bugfix, not "restoring robes and droid headgear".

 

It's my opinion (after all, I was the main tester, it's my goal to make TSLRCM as bugfree as possible) that we fix whatever is broken, wheter it be .tlk errors, .dlg errors, globals.jrl errors, script errors, .uti errors, .utc errors, shop errors, model errors or, indeed, texture errors. I don't see why the line should be drawn there.

Because after all, we aren't really modifying something to our own desires (otherwise the robes would look mighty different ) but just a slight messup OE made to match how the rest of the good robes, or the proper collar color sticking out...

My 2 cents.

[Salk 374]

I agree 100% with HH's take about TSLRCM and bugs. Correct me if I am wrong but at this stage, a considerable percentage of this project's efforts are already geared towards eliminating vanilla bugs and I can not but be very happy with it.

[milestails 264]

I'm also of the opinion that at this point, TSLRCM should continue cleaning up OE's mess-ups. We are shooting for the best gaming experience possible right?

 

Voting for both

[Boilpoint 12]

I think it's amusing to see how the TSLRCM team voted. Perhaps some insight into why HH created the thread?

 

I actually like the idea of fixing as much as possible, and having it all in one mod. That way it's easy for me to install just that and not worry about any potential compatibility bugs when I finally play. The negative side of that is TSLRCM is already a huge mod that touches so much that it becomes more and more difficult for previously made mods to be compatible, and seems to be a minefield for new mods to navigate for compatibility. Is this concern of keeping TSLRCM as compact as possible ever discussed by the modding team?

[ChrisC26 12]

Both should be included. I already have the Goto Fix and I already have a robe mod but both should be included.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I think it's amusing to see how the TSLRCM team voted. Perhaps some insight into why HH created the thread?

Both Varsity Puppet and Sith Holocron wanted to know what the community would think. So, here it is. Can't say I didn't expect the outcome.

The negative side of that is TSLRCM is already a huge mod that touches so much that it becomes more and more difficult for previously made mods to be compatible, and seems to be a minefield for new mods to navigate for compatibility. Is this concern of keeping TSLRCM as compact as possible ever discussed by the modding team?

True, backwards compatibility isn't guaranteed. But personally, I think having bugs fixed is more important than being compatible with new stuff. After all, people still mod, so updates of the most popular stuff will still be done. It's not like it's a dead community and we only have older stuff to select from which is then made unavailable.

When the choice is the HK-Torture cutscene/Goto-Bao Dur/Bao Dur Jedi Training on the EH or not just to support mods that, say, add a container on the EH, the choice is quickly made. Most older modifications don't break stuff, they just unfix things we fixed since their creation. Of course there are several who do though... just because one modified file can have such impact along the way...

 

I don't really see where it's a minefield for new mods. As long as they use 1.8 stuff as base, rather than vanilla TSL, they should just be fine. Using, say, a vanilla k_003ebo_onenter however will make your mod guaranteed unusable along with TSLRCM.

It's the same as modding the original TSL, but instead using different files (most of the time) as base. Made even easier if using 1.8's non-mod installation (english only), since then there are no multiple files over multiple modules to check with KOTORTool or the ERF-Extractor, what you see is what you get and what's compatible with TSLRCM 1.8 (although not guaranteed with other modifications of course).

 

Keeping it compact just adds a whole new layer of issues. Then the additional fixes would have to be made seperately. Using a seperate installer. Compatible with AND without each other. Dumping stuff in override is asking for trouble, since many files have similar names in other modules, but highly different content (see also crash issues using n_darthnihilu001.ncs to make that fight on the Ravager harder for example). Even worse with .dlg files. It might be possible if TSLPatcher allowed inserting files into modules, but it doesn't. Override (problematic) or replacing entire modulefiles (problematic, and highly incompatible). If you want to make it compatible you need a module per permutation. So say, 5 fixes (only minigame modules have that LOW amount of fixes) needs 5x4 = 20(!) module files. And do note that some modules have over 50 modified files! Also explaining why we don't allow you to pick and select fixes.

So making it fewer smaller packages instead of one bigger just makes it less userfriendly, less compatible with other mods and giganticly prone to error. Not exactly a step forward.

 

Making one big package post installing just vanilla 1.0b KOTOR2, and then having people add mods to that, having that be the new base that KOTOR2 vanilla once was, is a lot easier for both user and modder, than having to deal with a possible TSLRCM, fixmod, other fixes etc. etc. before even using their own mod they intend to make...

 

If anything's still unclear, just ask...

[predcon 0]

They get a slightly improved collar from it,

 

 

OH! Now I see the differences. The "before" is a solid color and the "after" shows the proper folds. If that's the case, and you absolutely cannot include both, then I'd go with the robe fixes, since they're more 'long term' as opposed to G0-T0's yacht just being the one mission.