Why it's not okay to upload someone else's mods

[Xuul 224]

With the advent of the steam workshop and the fall of Kotorfiles I have noticed a surge of people uploading mods that are not theirs. Many people in the comments of my videos even ask for, or advertise the new locations of these mods and send me messages telling me where to get them.

 

In these cases, I ask the uploader to kindly take down their mod and delete any links in the comments. At this point, many of them ask me why. While I understand many reasons why, I think it would be good to discuss why you do not want your mods to be reuploaded. 

 

Many users seem to not understand or even consider that this is somehow wrong, or if they do they follow the mantra that it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

So please, discuss why you do not want your mods to be spread around, so that we may help inform those who do not understand. Your thoughts will be collected by me and put into a video at a later time to help educate newer members to the mod community.

 

 

[Kainzorus Prime 205]

All of my mods have a disclaimer that they are not to be spread around other sites by other people. If I want to put a mod up somewhere, I'll do it myself. Simple as that.

 

If I receive news of my mods appearing somewhere I didn't personally upload them, I will find the offender and have them suffer the consequences.

[Fair Strides 509]

In a very real way, when you create a mod and release it onto a site, you're putting it up for others to enjoy and share around with their friends and enjoy some more. Some mods are small, some big. Some are stupid and funny, some are smart and amazing. Just as the mods come in all shapes and sizes, so do the modders who think them up, plan them, and put a lot of time and effort into making them happen.

 

When you release something to the public, you as the author have a right to set restrictions on how this file can be used. You could be perfectly fine with others uploading it to wherever they want, or you could decide that you don't want the possibility that someone will upload one of your mods that you're proud of and put so much time and effort into somewhere else without your knowledge and then saying it's their work.

 

Another real thing is the Credits section of a mod's read-me. If a modder had to get help from another modder (such as reskinned model, a few scripts, or a lot of dialog and audio), then it's not just the author's work being distributed; the modder that helped them is having their work sent out as well, which is understandably a big issue if the author had to do something special or got very strict restrictions when they received the files themselves.

 

Personally, I release my mods where I know they'll be appreciated. I know that they won't be misused and I can have a reasonable feeling of security that they won't get ripped off, torn apart, and sewn back together as someone's creation...

[DarthParametric 3,784]

All of my mods have a disclaimer that they are not to be spread around other sites by other people.

Unfortunately that's not always (or even often) respected by end users (assuming they even bother to read the readme). There's often a sense that once something is put up on the internet, it's fair game. While most modders generally advocate an "author's rules apply" approach, even within the modding community there are those that disagree. I remember in the early days of Dragon Age Origins modding, around 2010 or so, there was a group of fairly hardcore open source types (some of them to an almost militant degree) that were adamant that all mods should be completely open source, free for anyone else to use/modify/redistribute. I think some of them even didn't even agree attribution was warranted.

[1Leonard 134]

Basically for new mods that are going to be released here:

 

If you don't want it reuploaded to the Steam Workshop add a disclaimer saying you don't give permission. in bold letters.

[DarthParametric 3,784]

I see Darth InSidious has had a run-in with /r/kotor over this matter. Judging by the downvotes, they are big on preservation of mods on dead hosting by inactive authors. Which I can see some merit in, but I'm not a big fan of their attitude regarding it (although I guess DI did kind of get their back up with his post about being a representative of the modding community).

[Malkior 476]

Ogg.. It's a nightmare out there. (Steam Workshop) I have people complaining that my textures are crashing the game... What!?

[ZM90 100]

Ogg.. It's a nightmare out there. (Steam Workshop) I have people complaining that my textures are crashing the game... What!?

 

What the hell??? And I thought I've seen some odd reasons for blaming certain mods at Deadly Stream itself before but this just takes the cake....

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Just made a comment in that thread myself.

[Malkior 476]

Is there any way to sticky or otherwise explain why most mods can't and shouldn't be installed with Steam Workshop? I know a few people are making their lives more difficult by installing them without being warned. I remember FS giving a "computery" explanation, but I have looked, and can't seem to find it.

[1Leonard 134]

Is there any way to sticky or otherwise explain why most mods can't and shouldn't be installed with Steam Workshop? I know a few people are making their lives more difficult by installing them without being warned. I remember FS giving a "computery" explanation, but I have looked, and can't seem to find it.

I'm working on a steam guide for casual users on how to install TSLRCM + Mods without crashing their game in which I explain how the game folders work, and why certain mods don't work with each other, it's still in a rough state and not finished, I have to find some time. 

 

 

I see Darth InSidious has had a run-in with /r/kotor over this matter. Judging by the downvotes, they are big on preservation of mods on dead hosting by inactive authors. Which I can see some merit in, but I'm not a big fan of their attitude regarding it (although I guess DI did kind of get their back up with his post about being a representative of the modding community).

Well to be honest, he's more representative of the kotor modding community than anyone there. I cannot recall a single mod that came from that subreddit. The mods and advancements in modding are made here and at Holowan...

[DarthParametric 3,784]

Yeah I don't deny it, I was just remarking that his not-so-subtle approach in someone else's backyard wasn't rallying a lot of support to his cause. Not that I, of all people, should be lecturing others about subtlety.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I got a response on the thread by the way.

[Kexikus 995]

I just read the reddit thread and I've got to admit that I can kinda understand the position that it's okay to upload mods from authors that are no longer active anywhere. I'm not saying it's okay but I can understand their point.

 

But I think the first thing that should be done if a mod is no longer available due to Kotorfiles shutting down or if you want to see a mod on the Steam workshop is to contact the author. It never hurts to ask if the author could upload his/her mod somewhere else. That's especially true for mods from authors that are still active and who could upload their mods somewhere else. And if the author is no longer active and doesn't answer your request it depends on what the read-me says. If the author didn't want his mod to be reuploaded somewhere else, that's unfortunate but it's also the way it is.

 

And the reason why I personally wouldn't want my mods to be uploaded somewhere without my knowledge and permission is that I want to have control over all download possibilites so that I can update them, help out if problems arise or something else needs a response from my side. You could argue that someone who's no longer active in the modding community doesn't care about those things anymore anyway and that therefor it's okay to reupload his mods, but that just seems disrespectful.

[DarthParametric 3,784]

You could argue that someone who's no longer active in the modding community doesn't care about those things anymore anyway and that therefor it's okay to reupload his mods, but that just seems disrespectful.

Not to mention that while the author might be MIA at the time you try to contact them, that doesn't mean they will never return to modding. People have differing life circumstances, and it's presumptuous to declare that an author's rights are null and void just because some arbitary amount of time has passed.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I've had three of my mods uploaded to Steam Workshop without my permission. I've been active in this community since at least 2006. It's probably been longer but I joined LF in 2006 so that's the only date I can confirm right now.

 

My mods have been consistently downloadable here - barring site outages - since they were uploaded. I'm still active. Even the people still active are getting screwed

 

Going to sleep now. Angry and tired.

[ZM90 100]

There are some people who have absolutely zero appreciation for the hard work that modders put into their mods and it is absolutely disgusting that people are uploading mods without permission especially if the modder is active.  Unfortunately I am not sure what can be done about it but if anybody has any ideas I am all ears.

[1Leonard 134]

I've had three of my mods uploaded to Steam Workshop without my permission. I've been active in this community since at least 2006. It's probably been longer but I joined LF in 2006 so that's the only date I can confirm right now.

 

My mods have been consistently downloadable here - barring site outages - since they were uploaded. I'm still active. Even the people still active are getting screwed

 

Going to sleep now. Angry and tired.

That sucks dude. Most if not all mods on the Steam Workshop are by people who are still active I think. Or they're incompatible with TSLRCM.

[Sithspecter 909]

It's kind of surprising that it has taken so long for this sort of thing to happen. I'm really thankful that we have such a respectable community here on Deadly Stream and at Lucas Forums. Though there have been occasional violations, there really hasn't been anything of this scale before. I guess it's the first real discernible rift in the ideologies of the community. Not that I really count Reddit as part of the community, as it's just not set up well for modding.

 

In any case, it may be time that some of us make an appearance there. It's the only way that popular opinion might get swayed. I've gone over and voiced my opinion and supported Darth Insidious, who is seemingly the only voice of reason there.

 

Snigaroo, on 26 Jul 2015, said:

 

If I'm being frank, you don't represent the entirety of the KOTOR community, and I don't see how you have any personal right to police the actions of those preserving what essentially amounts to vaporware. Any mod which still has an active author or exists on a stable site should not be uploaded anywhere else, I agree, but so long as authors are credited I find it mind-numbing that anyone would think content should be lost because an author has been absent for a half-decade or more.

 

Snigaroo on Reddit said this about Darth Insidious, who in my memory is the longest continuously active modder that I know of. I was pretty appalled by it, and the guy clearly has little respect for the modders or intellectual property.

[Canderis 180]

Which thread on reddit is it we're discussing? I took a look and I couldn't find it.

 

 

Edit: Found it. My bad.

[Sithspecter 909]

This one: https://www.reddit.com/r/kotor/comments/3eoc1m/uploading_mods_to_steam_workshop/

 

Basically it's a large outcry of; "theft of intellectual property is okay if it's old..."

[milestails 264]

Another good example of why it is not okay is the infamous 1.0c patch by Xenon.

[Vasilii Zaytsev 14]

Hey guys, if you ever see anyone on /r/kotor linking to or advocating for the reuploading of mods to the Steam Workshop by someone other than the original author(s), please PM me on reddit so I can investigate (as I am a mod of /r/kotor). Thanks.

[Peanutz 0]

I have to disagree from the mob on this one. I dont see an issue with saving someone's work from a sinking ship such as Filefront. The argument that we shouldn't spread others work because we don't have permission from authors who havent been active since 2009 doesn't appeal to me. The people spreading these mods are fans of the mods. If we don't reupload these mods then they are lost and never used again.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

If we don't reupload these mods then they are lost and never used again.

Nonsense. If that can't get them through the Gamefront links (KOTOR, TSL), all those folks have to do if they want those mods is make a request is go to this thread and make a request.