The Return of.. Revenge of Revan

[Nm6k 0]

Logan has said previously that he wants to release Episode 1(Which be a remake of what was in the demo along with Nar Shaddaa) for his next big update.

[ryder121 0]

I am just saying an update would be nice, it's been a while since his last post. Will play the old demo when I have time.

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

There is nothing to update.

[Logan23 205]

Hi everyone,

 

Sith Holocron is correct. 

Due to some real life stuff,.. modding for RoR has slowed but I hope to change that soon. 
I hope everyone had a great holiday season !!  

[Nm6k 0]

Is it ok to ask how are things going?

[ubba77 0]

Hello,

i AM Wondering whether this product, is going to be to completion - I saw the dev has been busy, understandable; however, is there a ETA For a release?

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

There is nothing to update.

[Samriel 12]

Mod is pretty much dead despite the dev best intentions.

Not all mods end up completed or get even past the demo stage.

Too bad.

[N-DReW25 1,338]

4 hours ago, Samriel said:

Mod is pretty much dead despite the dev best intentions.

Not all mods end up completed or get even past the demo stage.

Too bad.

I wouldn't necessarily say the mod is properly dead... the mod author is still determined to see it through to the end even though he isn't active on this forum.

 

For fans following the project: Logan did, at one point in the past, cancel the project due to health reasons and only resumed development after several new modding tools were released which made world building much less tedious for him. Even though he's back to developing ROR those health reasons likely haven't gone away, when we consider this (alongside the Covid-19 pandemic and the global recession it caused) there are no doubt valid reasons why the development of ROR has been significantly delayed.

 

At the end of the day: modding is a hobby and no modder is obliged to the mods that they've made or developed... so if a modder has health problems, employment obligations or other private issues it's common sense that modders focus on any of those reasons rather than their mods.

 

As a ROR team member, I know ROR's behind the scenes development, but since I'm not Logan I cannot promise anything... though I can say if Logan was 100% certain he wanted to stop developing the mod he would announce it. As an insider, I can say development is still on-going, though fans should treat ROR like Sleheyron... SithSpecter hasn't cancelled Sleheyron though at the same time the Sleheyron thread has seen no activity for well over a year now.

 

I personally have faith that SithSpecter is still working on Sleheyron albeit in total secrecy so that he may develop at his own comfortable pace. Like with Sleheyron, players shouldn't be tallying the days or checking for ROR/Sleheyron updates all the time, these mods will come when the developers are ready and when they release it'll catch us by complete surprise.

[Samriel 12]

1 hour ago, N-DReW25 said:

I wouldn't necessarily say the mod is properly dead... the mod author is still determined to see it through to the end even though he isn't active on this forum.

 

For fans following the project: Logan did, at one point in the past, cancel the project due to health reasons and only resumed development after several new modding tools were released which made world building much less tedious for him. Even though he's back to developing ROR those health reasons likely haven't gone away, when we consider this (alongside the Covid-19 pandemic and the global recession it caused) there are no doubt valid reasons why the development of ROR has been significantly delayed.

 

At the end of the day: modding is a hobby and no modder is obliged to the mods that they've made or developed... so if a modder has health problems, employment obligations or other private issues it's common sense that modders focus on any of those reasons rather than their mods.

 

As a ROR team member, I know ROR's behind the scenes development, but since I'm not Logan I cannot promise anything... though I can say if Logan was 100% certain he wanted to stop developing the mod he would announce it. As an insider, I can say development is still on-going, though fans should treat ROR like Sleheyron... SithSpecter hasn't cancelled Sleheyron though at the same time the Sleheyron thread has seen no activity for well over a year now.

 

I personally have faith that SithSpecter is still working on Sleheyron albeit in total secrecy so that he may develop at his own comfortable pace. Like with Sleheyron, players shouldn't be tallying the days or checking for ROR/Sleheyron updates all the time, these mods will come when the developers are ready and when they release it'll catch us by complete surprise.

Well, mods that run for over a decade or longer end up going nowhere in like 95% of cases. In fact even projects that run for "only" 5 years tend to die VERY often once the initial enthusiasm and hype expire replaced by burnout and new RL obligations.

And its one thing smaller calibre mods that fix 1-3 bugs, add a few new skins or tweak content a little bit...when compared to GIGA project stuff that adds a LOT of content like quest mods or very well developed NPCs with story/dialogues/romances mods. A smaller scope mod can still be completed even if the dev got a really busy schedule. Stuff that introduces like many hours of new content? Now that is something that only the most talented, determined, healthy, lucky modders with tons of free time (high school students, university students or super rich folks who decided to take a break) and possibly with help from other modders can hope to handle successfully. Taking on a huge quest mod for this game is undoubtedly a most hardcore undertaking.

Few modders ever announce giving up though. Eternal silence in that regard is as final a statement as it gets.

I certainly do not blame Logan since as you said its a free project and a hobby made out of nothing more than love for the game and its community.

I'm a bit of a realist though and I tend to be a bit blunt. I would suck as a diplomat lol.

Maybe it will be completed one day but I think that for now it does nothing more than add extra stress for Logan and give unneeded expectations to those who were (are) still hoping to see it one day released.

Not every project its done when its done. Some never are.

Especially solo giga projects.

[Logan23 205]

1 hour ago, Samriel said:

Well, mods that run for over a decade or longer end up going nowhere in like 95% of cases. In fact even projects that run for "only" 5 years tend to die VERY often once the initial enthusiasm and hype expire replaced by burnout and new RL obligations.

And its one thing smaller calibre mods that fix 1-3 bugs, add a few new skins or tweak content a little bit...when compared to GIGA project stuff that adds a LOT of content like quest mods or very well developed NPCs with story/dialogues/romances mods. A smaller scope mod can still be completed even if the dev got a really busy schedule. Stuff that introduces like many hours of new content? Now that is something that only the most talented, determined, healthy, lucky modders with tons of free time (high school students, university students or super rich folks who decided to take a break) and possibly with help from other modders can hope to handle successfully. Taking on a huge quest mod for this game is undoubtedly a most hardcore undertaking.

Few modders ever announce giving up though. Eternal silence in that regard is as final a statement as it gets.

I certainly do not blame Logan since as you said its a free project and a hobby made out of nothing more than love for the game and its community.

I'm a bit of a realist though and I tend to be a bit blunt. I would suck as a diplomat lol.

Maybe it will be completed one day but I think that for now it does nothing more than add extra stress for Logan and give unneeded expectations to those who were (are) still hoping to see it one day released.

Not every project its done when its done. Some never are.

Especially solo giga projects.

I totally understand what your saying.

I have been dealing with some real life stuff the past few months which has slowed the production to a crawl.

Things are getting better and we have decided to make some changes to help with the workflow of the project.

We were originally looking to release two planets which led to jumping back and forth from one planet content to another. 

We are now looking to just release planet by planet which will help keep our self focus. Both planets are in testing and adding some missing content. I cant say when the first planet will drop. 

This new change as well as others should help get planets to release and allow you guys to play it. 

The project isn't dead but it has its challenges and bumps in the road.

Thanks for your support 😃

 

Logan23

 

 

 

[Mawrak 0]

Guys, you need to understand that these kinds of projects take a lot of time, and there are often periods of routine development where important work is being done, but there isn't much to show publicly, so the only thing the devs can say is "Its not dead, we're working on it". It pretty normal stuff, especially for a hobby project.

Logan, I appreciate the small update on how things are going, and thank you for still working on this project.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Mawrak

[Thor110 502]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:30 PM, Mawrak said:

Guys, you need to understand that these kinds of projects take a lot of time, and there are often periods of routine development where important work is being done, but there isn't much to show publicly, so the only thing the devs can say is "Its not dead, we're working on it". It pretty normal stuff, especially for a hobby project.

Logan, I appreciate the small update on how things are going, and thank you for still working on this project.

I have to second this, rest assured they are still working on it and I help them out from time to time.

On 9/4/2023 at 7:19 AM, Samriel said:

Mod is pretty much dead despite the dev best intentions.

Not all mods end up completed or get even past the demo stage.

Too bad.

It's comments like this that probably lead to 95% of big mods not being finished.

Some of us just throw our arms up in the air and go, well don't have it then. DELETE.

Thor110

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

1 hour ago, Thor110 said:

It's comments like this that probably lead to 95% of big mods not being finished.

Some of us just throw our arms up in the air and go, well don't have it then. DELETE.

Huh.  This you?

[Samriel 12]

3 hours ago, Thor110 said:

 

It's comments like this that probably lead to 95% of big mods not being finished.

Some of us just throw our arms up in the air and go, well don't have it then. DELETE.

Thor110

Not being sceptical in the least even if a mod is in development for a decade or more is kinda weird I think. Especially when no concrete updates had been posted for quite a while.

Just my opinion though.

I do not hold a grudge against Logan or believe that Logan should neglect his RL in favor of the mod he is making for free btw.

I'm just a bit bluntly realistic.

I do not see such pessimistic comments from anyone else so I doubt the reason it takes so long is due to downer like comments. Only a few asking how its going or whether is there any update. Are such comments so unwelcomed? Would silence and disinterest be all that much better?

Maybe your optimism and positive thinking will prove correct at the end. We will see.

On 9/5/2023 at 12:30 AM, Mawrak said:

Guys, you need to understand that these kinds of projects take a lot of time, and there are often periods of routine development where important work is being done, but there isn't much to show publicly, so the only thing the devs can say is "Its not dead, we're working on it". It pretty normal stuff, especially for a hobby project.

Logan, I appreciate the small update on how things are going, and thank you for still working on this project.

Sigh...perhaps I've grown too cynical by seeing waaaay too many EA projects where the devs are actually paid and yet all to often abandoning their projects after many as you put it "its not dead, we're working on it" messages/news.

And way too many free mods with great potential being abandoned too either to a busy job, HD crash, starting a family, health problems or just mysterious sudden vanishing.

[Thor110 502]

2 hours ago, Samriel said:

even if a mod is in development for a decade or more is kinda weird I think.

Have you ever made a mod for anything?

2 hours ago, Samriel said:

Would silence and disinterest be all that much better?

No, but outright saying it's dead leads others to believe it is.

2 hours ago, Samriel said:

Sigh...perhaps I've grown too cynical by seeing waaaay too many EA projects where the devs are actually paid and yet all to often abandoning their projects after many as you put it "its not dead, we're working on it" messages/news.

Oh! We can all understand that! Money doesn't always seem to get the job done does it!

2 hours ago, Samriel said:

Maybe your optimism and positive thinking will prove correct at the end. We will see.

It'll get there! I really enjoyed the demo myself as I am sure many did, all in good time!

2 hours ago, Samriel said:

And way too many free mods with great potential being abandoned too either to a busy job, HD crash, starting a family, health problems or just mysterious sudden vanishing.

This happens from time to time, there can be countless reasons but I have to say in recent times I have seen some incredible projects that are absolutely breathtaking!

Including many that would be considered impossible due to legal issues, thankfully many have managed to properly defend themselves.

So be patient  take a look around, sometimes some of the coolest stuff pops up out of nowhere!

[N-DReW25 1,338]

I actually used Sleheyron as an example earlier, his WIP thread has been radio silent for a whole year but today he's posted something!

 

 

Check it out, it's a whole video preview... and any of us who actually make mods will know that the content shown in that video wasn't easy to make. Just goes to show that some "dead" mods are still kicking behind the scenes!

[Mawrak 0]

On 9/9/2023 at 11:10 PM, Samriel said:

Sigh...perhaps I've grown too cynical by seeing waaaay too many EA projects where the devs are actually paid and yet all to often abandoning their projects after many as you put it "its not dead, we're working on it" messages/news.

I just know how it looks from the other side... I'm working on a project thats been taking years to finish (not kotor related). I don't post updates much. It doesn't mean that its dead. I keep getting messages asking if its still being developed or not. Sometimes people outright say thats it dead even though every time I say that its not. It just gets tiresome. Im no optimist when it comes to life, but this isn't about belief, Im just trying to explain how these things work. You don't always have something to show. You don't always want to show WIP stuff that may not give the right impression. There are periods where you don't get to work on the project that much due to IRL stuff. Its normal. The thing that keeps these projects going is determination, and lack of updates doesn't mean that nobody is working on it.

And yes, some projects do get cancelled, a lot of them do. It can happen. But its wrong to assume things like that unless its been announced by the authors. Developers don't benefit from having to worry about posting regular updates out of fear of being branded as "dead mods", they have a lot on their hands already.

[Samriel 12]

19 hours ago, Mawrak said:

I just know how it looks from the other side... I'm working on a project thats been taking years to finish (not kotor related). I don't post updates much. It doesn't mean that its dead. I keep getting messages asking if its still being developed or not. Sometimes people outright say thats it dead even though every time I say that its not. It just gets tiresome. Im no optimist when it comes to life, but this isn't about belief, Im just trying to explain how these things work. You don't always have something to show. You don't always want to show WIP stuff that may not give the right impression. There are periods where you don't get to work on the project that much due to IRL stuff. Its normal. The thing that keeps these projects going is determination, and lack of updates doesn't mean that nobody is working on it.

And yes, some projects do get cancelled, a lot of them do. It can happen. But its wrong to assume things like that unless its been announced by the authors. Developers don't benefit from having to worry about posting regular updates out of fear of being branded as "dead mods", they have a lot on their hands already.

I've seen waaaaay to many projects where the devs never had the balls to admit the project is dead and either learning about it from 2nd party folks who stated that the dev/modder moved on with the project long ago ( due to burnout, being to busy with RL or due to a HD crash with all of the game's data for example) or by going with common sense when the dev/modder did not post for like half a decade.

It applies to both mods and EA games.

Especially those handled by a solo dev.

Tons of "Its not dead" news with nothing to show is...well...actions speak louder than words. The only exception might be if the dev in question released plenty of complex and amazing games in the past and got a reputation to back up his/her words with actual actions. Or its just a small mod which offers some minor tweaks that are easy to make.

If authors of paid EA games have no shame to exit the stage after releasing a paid "demo" often for a hefty price then why should modders who release for free and have no obligation to finish it act otherwise?

And the more complex the mod or game the harder it is to finish it. Especially sans any help. It may still look achievable if the person in question is still in high school or college and got plenty of free time still...but once one starts a family and gets a busy job then all bets are off.

Never mind those troubling times nowadays with covid, war, raising inflation and future becoming more and more uncertain.

So I guess I subscribe to the "No expectations no disappointments" policy.

If a mod is released even after like two decades then its a most pleasant surprise and I'm happy to be wrong about the project being dead. But if its never released then its just as I expected...nothing more and nothing less.

[Malkior 476]

On 9/15/2023 at 1:53 AM, Samriel said:

I've seen waaaaay to many projects where the devs never had the balls to admit the project is dead and either learning about it from 2nd party folks who stated that the dev/modder moved on with the project long ago ( due to burnout, being to busy with RL or due to a HD crash with all of the game's data for example) or by going with common sense when the dev/modder did not post for like half a decade.

It applies to both mods and EA games.

Especially those handled by a solo dev.

Tons of "Its not dead" news with nothing to show is...well...actions speak louder than words. The only exception might be if the dev in question released plenty of complex and amazing games in the past and got a reputation to back up his/her words with actual actions. Or its just a small mod which offers some minor tweaks that are easy to make.

If authors of paid EA games have no shame to exit the stage after releasing a paid "demo" often for a hefty price then why should modders who release for free and have no obligation to finish it act otherwise?

And the more complex the mod or game the harder it is to finish it. Especially sans any help. It may still look achievable if the person in question is still in high school or college and got plenty of free time still...but once one starts a family and gets a busy job then all bets are off.

Never mind those troubling times nowadays with covid, war, raising inflation and future becoming more and more uncertain.

So I guess I subscribe to the "No expectations no disappointments" policy.

If a mod is released even after like two decades then its a most pleasant surprise and I'm happy to be wrong about the project being dead. But if its never released then its just as I expected...nothing more and nothing less.

Your cynicism and statements are perfectly reasonable, but your action went too far.

Many mods don't get done on time because the author loses interest or simply has inadequate resources to make it a reality yes; but stating with no evidence that the project is "dead" only serves to spread misinformation, especially when the author has gone on the record several times that they are still working on it.

[Samriel 12]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:55 AM, Malkior said:

Your cynicism and statements are perfectly reasonable, but your action went too far.

Many mods don't get done on time because the author loses interest or simply has inadequate resources to make it a reality yes; but stating with no evidence that the project is "dead" only serves to spread misinformation, especially when the author has gone on the record several times that they are still working on it.

I agree that me stating that the mod is "dead" might not have been the most adecuate choice of words but it was nevertheless only my opinion and I never claimed to have received such statement directly from Logan. And I never pretended to be Logan or anyone who works with him on the mod.

Its just my subjective opinion which is not worth more than anyone else's.

That said devs/modders need some actual proof that things are actually moving along and its not just their hopes that maybe "eventually" they will find time to work on the mod while for years they couldn't manage to find said time and/or motivation.

If Logan released a big update with lots of new content or at least posted a video (or even some pictures) showcasing at least a few minutes of new content that he keeps adding then it would make it more believable that the mod is actually being worked and not in Limbo/zombie status level/development hell sans progress.

A dev diary of what has been done lately released at least twice a year wouldn't hurt either.

Show don't tell.

Especially after years sans anything substantial.

Its a free mod so Logan owes us nothing but if one does not have the means/resources/time/motivation to get things done then maybe it would be wise to admit it instead of giving others false hope for many years while potentially lying to yourself.

I for one could never get a mod of this caliber done and I would see no point in trying to convince others that maybe its not the case.

Still...I apologize if I offended anyone with what I said.

[Thor110 502]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:07 PM, Samriel said:

That said devs/modders need some actual proof that things are actually moving along and its not just their hopes that maybe "eventually" they will find time to work on the mod while for years they couldn't manage to find said time and/or motivation.

Why does anyone need to prove anything to anyone in regards to something they are working on in their own time to give away to people for free?

On 9/22/2023 at 4:07 PM, Samriel said:

If Logan released a big update with lots of new content or at least posted a video (or even some pictures) showcasing at least a few minutes of new content that he keeps adding then it would make it more believable that the mod is actually being worked and not in Limbo/zombie status level/development hell sans progress.

So your suggestion is that the devs take time away from working on the mod to showcase some fancy video that wows you?

On 9/22/2023 at 4:07 PM, Samriel said:

A dev diary of what has been done lately released at least twice a year wouldn't hurt either.

Which would again, take time away from actually developing the project.

While in some cases it's easy enough to keep track of things being done, some people aren't used to it and it can be annoying to have to stop developing just to go and write "fixed this" or "updated that" or "added this" to some log.

On 9/22/2023 at 4:07 PM, Samriel said:

Its a free mod so Logan owes us nothing but if one does not have the means/resources/time/motivation to get things done then maybe it would be wise to admit it instead of giving others false hope for many years while potentially lying to yourself.

Yet you are speaking as if they owe everyone an explanation.

You've been informed by multiple people that have actively helped develop the project with Logan that it is still being worked on, if that isn't enough, I don't know what is.

On 9/22/2023 at 4:07 PM, Samriel said:

Still...I apologize if I offended anyone with what I said.

I think for everyone it's more pertinent that the latest comment isn't "mod is dead" especially when it was preceded by an update from the developer regarding work being done to the mod.

With all that being said, these things take time and unfortunately everybody has lives to live, bellies to fill and work to do.

Thor110

P.S. I am sure there will be something to show off sooner or later.

[Samriel 12]

10 hours ago, Thor110 said:

Why does anyone need to prove anything to anyone in regards to something they are working on in their own time to give away to people for free?

So your suggestion is that the devs take time away from working on the mod to showcase some fancy video that wows you?

Which would again, take time away from actually developing the project.

While in some cases it's easy enough to keep track of things being done, some people aren't used to it and it can be annoying to have to stop developing just to go and write "fixed this" or "updated that" or "added this" to some log.

Yet you are speaking as if they owe everyone an explanation.

You've been informed by multiple people that have actively helped develop the project with Logan that it is still being worked on, if that isn't enough, I don't know what is.

I think for everyone it's more pertinent that the latest comment isn't "mod is dead" especially when it was preceded by an update from the developer regarding work being done to the mod.

With all that being said, these things take time and unfortunately everybody has lives to live, bellies to fill and work to do.

Thor110

P.S. I am sure there will be something to show off sooner or later.

I dunno but I tend to not trust on word alone.

At least when a project has been going for years with nothing to show.

Of course its a free work that one can only make in their free time but if nothing had been shown for years then it may as well be scam (not talking about this mod specifically though) especially if the modder had not completed any work in the past.

Perhaps if I had been a modder myself then I would be much more understanding of fellow modders since I would know first hand how tedious it can be and so I would get very annoyed if some entitled nobody was whining while never having released anything himself.

Alas if i "started" a huge project of say...KOTR3 and hyped everyone while actually not doing anything and only doing it for say...attention then who would prove than I'm lying? With no proof except my word would you trust me forever then?

Well, even if the modder is 100% serious about his work if one is unlucky enough or busy enough (or both *sweat*) it can still never leave the starting stage. That is why I tend to wish some proof (any proof) that for all those years things actually progressed at all. If they did not it may be merely wishful thinking and hopeful daydreaming.

Probably I sound like an ungrateful entitled scumbag but I've been disappointed way to many times in the past and I tend to be weary of trusting to much. Which is why I subscribe to the "No expectations no disappointments" policy.

I hope my cynicism and dickish bluntness had not brought too much toxicity into this thread though. Perhaps I'm too immature for my own good.

Anyway, I think it might be better if we leave it at that. Lets just agree to disagree and end this discussion in peace.

P.S. I wish that you are right in the end and once this mod is completed you give me a "I told you dude" notification with my depressing post/s attached. I will eagerly eat humble pie and admit that I was wrong about thinking that this mod was dead. Maybe my faith in very long projects will also be at least partially restored.

[Logan23 205]

Hi everyone, 

I want to squash this all with saying the mod is alive and doing well. The mod is drinking some corellian ale on the beaches of Telos 😀

I will be updating this post later with an update. I'm at work so don't have access to show any pics 😀

Logan23

[Thor110 502]

14 hours ago, Samriel said:

I hope my cynicism and dickish bluntness had not brought too much toxicity into this thread though. Perhaps I'm too immature for my own good.

I think we all understand your position, it's just generally better to leave mods to die as opposed to complaining, at least in my opinion.

14 hours ago, Samriel said:

P.S. I wish that you are right in the end and once this mod is completed you give me a "I told you dude" notification with my depressing post/s attached. I will eagerly eat humble pie and admit that I was wrong about thinking that this mod was dead. Maybe my faith in very long projects will also be at least partially restored.

Patience, go play another mod for a bit