Apeiron

[Minimpoun 5]

53 minutes ago, Malkior said:

However, don't start pretending that your only interest is your own personal enjoyment

Man, not sure why you are being so hostile.

And no, I'm not pretending I am working on this project for my own enjoyment. I started working on Apeiron a few months ago, and have since gotten to create a bunch of cool stuff I wouldn't normally get to do. So yes, I am personally on this project for my own enjoyment. 

 

[Malkior 476]

28 minutes ago, Minimpoun said:

Man, not sure why you are being so hostile.

And no, I'm not pretending I am working on this project for my own enjoyment. I started working on Apeiron a few months ago, and have since gotten to create a bunch of cool stuff I wouldn't normally get to do. So yes, I am personally on this project for my own enjoyment. 

 

Wait. You've just now started working on Apeiron? 

 

My apologies I was unaware you just inherited the task of running the project. My dissent is more or less directed at the fine individual who insists on making the many promises and pushing the hype to its very limits for literally years, and then has the gall to say that they don't care they've been misleading everyone in their site's statement (which has been altered several times I might add) 

 

I've worked on a few projects myself, so I can kind of see how working on this can be fun and rewarding, but bear in mind that Apeiron has its own share of history, and clearing up what its actual goal and structure is would at least be a start. 

[Minimpoun 5]

1 minute ago, Malkior said:

My apologies I was unaware you just inherited the task of running the project.

I do not run the project, I am just the Lead Programmer. The game director is still Taylor, he is also the one who does all the publicising and marketing. If you have a problem with how the website is wording something, he's definitely the one to talk to about that.

[JCarter426 1,214]

20 hours ago, Minimpoun said:

As the person who actually wrote the installer, I can answer this. When you download the game from our website, it'll prompt you to specify the install location of the original (the folder container the .exe), once you do this it will look for a folder called "data", then it will load the "sounds.bif" file--similar to the way the KOTOR tool loads the .bif files. Once the file has been loaded, Apeiron will install into the directory you choose. Once the game is installed, it will then copy all the .wav files from the sounds.bif file and paste them into the /Content/Audio/ folder. Then you can just double click on the Apeiron icon and it'll open the game, the first time you launch Apeiron you will see a loading bar with the words "parsing audio". This is because the files are directly copied as .wav files, however the game needs them as .uassets, so we have to import them at run time. This will only happen once.

[...]

There is no way for us to stop someone from pirating KOTOR then installing our mod.

sounds.bif is only 185 MB and doesn't even include most of the game's audio. If this is all your installer does, your situation is more like saying "there is no way for us to stop someone from pirating 5% of the game after we give them the other 95%". I understand you're in a delicate position. As you say you can't add DRM unless know what to tell it to check for, and you'd have to crack the game to do that. On top of that, the GOG.com version doesn't have any DRM regardless. But 5% of the game, which is very easy to extract, does not amount to the whole game. This may be pedantic, but I hope you can understand why a lot of people are skeptical at your team's insistence that this is a mod when it runs on a different EXE and doesn't require the game to run.

[Snigaroo 119]

4 hours ago, Minimpoun said:

The game director is still Taylor, he is also the one who does all the publicising and marketing. If you have a problem with how the website is wording something, he's definitely the one to talk to about that.

I have serious issues with Apeiron in general, especially the progress of its development over the past three years and its online "presence," if you like. I think it's only fair for me to disclose that bias first thing.

With that made clear, though, I have a deep distaste for the way the project has thus far seemingly been managed, and absolutely with how it's been conveyed to the fanbase at large, which I believe I would still have even without this accumulated bias. You say that the project lead is the one to speak to about these issues, but you are the first Apeiron volunteer that I have ever communicated with on any forum (to my knowledge, at any rate). I was on the subreddit the day that Apeiron was announced, and I still see every thread that passes through the sub as part and parcel of being a mod. Every Apeiron topic ever posted has only had fans in it to speak on the team's behalf, and the overwhelming majority of those fans have genuinely and innocently pushed the narrative that Apeiron is a mod which is free from C&D threat from any rights-holder. They've believed what you've said, and it's all so much empty words.

I don't hold you to blame for this personally, or hold any ill-will towards you or even the idea of KOTOR being remade. My problems are twofold: a complete lack of communication on any channels which aren't dominated by Apeiron fans, and what is--in my view--the deliberate and continued misinformation that Apeiron will be legally treated as a mod. In defense of your team, I should have stepped forward with these issues myself a long time ago, but in my own defense I had (and still have) zero faith that the project will ever see the light of day, in all honesty. With that said, I still find the lack of communication outside of Apeiron-dominated channels disturbing, and the misinformation downright distasteful. Now that it seems that at least some elements of your team are attempting to be more communicative with other parts of the community, I think it would be to both of our benefits if these issues were addressed.

I've made unpleasant claims about the Apeiron team's work, including about its overall competency to bring the project to fruition. Many have taken this to be unreasonable hostility on my part, but having been involved with indie development in the past, what I've seen thus far seems to me simply to be a reflection of the same lack of available volunteers that laid my own project to waste. Contrary to those who assume I'm simply hostile for the sake of being hostile, however, I would love to be proven wrong; I have simply never been put in the position of being able to ask questions of a developer before without going out of my way.

I don't know how to contact your director, so if you could pass on to him my sincere hope that he would consider immediately removing the mod portion of the FAQ on your website, it would immediately alleviate many of my concerns about how Apeiron has portrayed itself thus far. If you would be further willing to request that he get in touch with me here or on reddit, I would love to coordinate an AMA with your team and the subreddit as a whole. Much of the trouble that exists thus far, I feel, stems from the perception that your team is uncommunicative and intentionally misleading your fans; if both of these misconceptions could be clarified through engagement, it would go a long way indeed toward engaging the remainder of the community with the project.

Finally, because most of this post has been presumptuous on my part and I'm well-aware of it, I do want to say again that I don't wish you or any member of your team any ill will. If I'm being entirely honest I still have serious questions about the project, your team's capabilities, etc., but that's why I want to open a dialogue regarding it. I have been incredibly hostile toward the project in the past, but, again, I would love to be proven wrong and to find out this has all been a large misunderstanding on my part. If you all are willing to have an open dialogue, I'm very willing to change my views.

[Haveayap 127]

It's nice to see one member of the team trying to address these persistent issues as no one else has even tried to. I have been blocked of off streams in the past questioning them about some of these details. I do feel that the website needs to be updated though. The amount of people claiming the project to be 100% legal or the people that say lucasarts gave them permission (even though lucasarts no longer exists 🤣) is ridiculous. I for one think sniggs idea is great and that your team should at the bare minimum have some dialogue with the fans of Kotor.

Obviously this is not your fault @Minimpoun as you are new to the team. But the underlying issues are still present

[zbyl2 811]

11 hours ago, Minimpoun said:

 which is one of the reasons we don't show gameplay often.

Did you ever? I missed it if you did, I'd like to see it if you've got any links. Cool swoop  bike vid.

 

11 hours ago, Minimpoun said:

People prefer to see art assets than a editor extension I wrote to make renaming assets easier for designers lmao

True.

What people prefer even more is to see some kind of combat mechanics, so it looks like you have a game at all, instead of collection of cool Unreal level. You can't tell me you haven't been able to prototype combat in couple of years?

If you're a pro, you know that making level models before designing quests is a bad idea, and making so many levels without getting gameplay down just can't work.

Also if you're hanging around any game dev forums, you obviously see all the people starting rev share games or putting together unpaid teams, then never actually producing anything, so you must understand why Apeiron looks like "one of those" projects to people here.

 

10 hours ago, Minimpoun said:

 I started working on Apeiron a few months ago

Oh... oooooh. So the game didn't even have a programmer until few months ago?

That would actually make sense.

[Hikifroggy 1]

Normally i Wouldn't Bump old post But i feel like i should say Apeiron was Cease and deists Today by lucasfilm of course this was eventually bound to happen But even i must admit the fan project was going on for like 3 or 4 years to the point i thought it would get released then get C&D or maybe Lucasfilm/EA Stopped Caring..



RIP Apeiron
at least they made some Nice maps design i gotta give credit to that

[Vergil 4]

I knew that it was going to end this way and never had much excitement for it but it is a little sad to see people's work go to waste even if it was going to be a disaster at best imo.

[HK-47 84]

And there's already a change.org petition on it. I really don't see it doing anything but sit and go nowhere. It's sad that none of the big companies are willing to remake the games with a better engine and graphics. They would make a ton of money on it. More than their latest AAA Star Wars game that practically bombed due to EA's greed.

Here's the link if anyone's interested. https://www.change.org/p/disney-lucasfilm-the-apeiron-project-star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-remaster-must-continue/d?source_location=combo_psf

[JCarter426 1,214]

7 hours ago, Vergil said:

I knew that it was going to end this way and never had much excitement for it but it is a little sad to see people's work go to waste even if it was going to be a disaster at best imo.

That might be the nicest way to put it. Regardless of what one thinks of their work and whether it's a "mod" that had any chance of release, it's clear to me they wouldn't have put that much effort into it if they didn't care about it. I can certainly sympathize with the idea of not being allowed to work on something you care about. A few years ago I lost the motivation to ever embark on that sort of undertaking, when I heard about a fan project like this getting shut down - I think it was what they're calling Galaxy in Turmoil now - and I can only hope that nobody here will ever have to use the "but it's a mod" defense.

[superSzym 155]

News frm yesterday: Apeiron is no more. Lucasfilm forced closing the project. Won't give a link with the info because I read it in Polish.

That's when our modders come in with the mods that aren't a total remake yet give it a new wonderful life.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Looks like SidAlpha has gotten a few of the salient points wrong.

I dropped my own thoughts in the comment section on the video's page but feel free to add your own.

[Haveayap 127]

And this is why I pointed out the Dev teams hypocrisy a few months ago:

"I've talked to legal console, and they stated that there would be a high chance of us winning the argument, since this is a mod, but the legal fight would take most likely a year(s) and cost around 100k. It's been our internal policy to end production in this scenario"

Clearly lying to try and save face. Knew they would try and claim the morale high ground on whichever company D&C them first. IMO, a scumbag move to make. Just admit that you were in the wrong when you claimed it was a "mod" which made it safe in the first place.

P.S For anyone claiming its a mod, let me show you the definition of a mod and a definition of a video game remake:

MOD: "The term mod is derived from the act of modifying a game. To mod a game is to create custom levels, objects, characters, or even unique or stand-alone game from an existing game engine. Many games come with an editor that allow for easier modding. A person who mods a game is called a modder."

WIKI DEFINITION OF MOD: "A mod (short for "modification") is an alteration by players or fans of a video game[1] that changes some aspects or one aspect of a video game, such as how it looks or behaves. Mods may range from small changes and tweaks to complete overhauls, and can extend the replay value and interest of the game".

VIDEO GAME REMAKE: "A video game remake is a video game closely adapted from an earlier title, usually for the purpose of modernizing a game for newer hardware and contemporary audiences and is coded from scratch".

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

12 minutes ago, Haveayap said:

"I've talked to legal console, and they stated that there would be a high chance of us winning the argument, since this is a mod, but the legal fight would take most likely a year(s) and cost around 100k."

That quote amused me.  Yes, I know it wasn't you.

My comment (under "scarletguard") checks a lot of your other boxes.

[Haveayap 127]

4 minutes ago, Sith Holocron said:

That quote amused me.  Yes, I know it wasn't you.

My comment (under "scarletguard") checks a lot of your other boxes.

I've been away for a week so was surprised to see it finally got a D&C 😂Their own dev team admitted to me it was not a mod! Now they are claiming they seeked out legal advice and they said this?

Would be interested to hear the Video Game Attorneys point of view on this claim made tbh because even claiming it is a mod doesn't really make it legal (even though it is clearly not a mod). Thinking about it more, using the sound files from the OG game is illegal because even if the game checked for the OG files (which would not be hard to get around, *SIDE RANT* you could also make an argument it would have encouraged more people to illegally download the OG kotor version for the files needed), they would still need to rip the sound files from the game and reuse them in their own version and engine which last time I checked, is against kotors TOS or whatever its called 😂

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

I just hope more folks point out in the comment section of the video that Apeiron wasn't a mod.  (Right now, it's mostly folks using the C&D news as an excuse to bash Disney in general about their studio's SW movies or commenting on EA's lackluster games, which seems a bit off-topic to me.)

[Haveayap 127]

Just now, Sith Holocron said:

I just hope more folks point out in the comment section of the video that Apeiron wasn't a mod.  (Right now, it's mostly folks using the C&D news as an excuse to bash Disney in general about their studio's SW movies or commenting on EA's lackluster games, which seems a bit off-topic to me.)

yep, even on redit, I see they are arguing disney is evil for doing this, than someone used bethesda as a good example 😕 Bethesda have shut down their fare share of large mods aswell (normally further in development than this one aswell). It was only a few months ago, they stopped a total conversion of FO3 into the FO4 engine.

[peedeeboy 23]

I wonder if the X-Wing Virtual Machine will be hit next?

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

17 minutes ago, peedeeboy said:

I wonder if the X-Wing Virtual Machine will be hit next?

Possibly.  I'm just going to stick to talking about Apeiron in this thread though. 

I am headed off to sleep now but if anyone posts a comment on the YouTube comment section, could you let us know about it?

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

3 hours ago, Sith Holocron said:

Looks like SidAlpha has gotten a few of the salient points wrong.

I dropped my own thoughts in the comment section on the video's page but feel free to add your own.

I hopped in and have tried to help dispel the idea about it being a mod. Can’t do much else about people having Disney or people hating copyright law

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Appreciated, VP.

[JCarter426 1,214]

Which one of you is going to address the much more serious issue of spelling it "KoToR"?

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

These damn kids with their textin' vocabulary. It's KotOR!

Update: It strikes me that there's some potential fun to be had by replying to any YouTube comment that states Apeiron was a mod by replying that it isn't with a definition. Anyone want to take a crack a writing a small blurb that folks can copy and paste from here to "in order to facilitate communications"?

[Hikifroggy 1]

seems like republic commando remastered Disappeared


i'm curious Could EA or Lucasfilm C&D Any of the projects on here like TSLRCM Mod?