New Landing and Take-Off Videos

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I just watched the TSL landing/takeoff videos again, and wow the quality really is terrible. We must be to the point now where it's time to re-render all those as some sort of large group project. But in terms of the skybox, it's very orange.

The actual animation would not be terribly difficult per say, just time consuming.

I'd be up for pitching in with that sort of thing. The animation, anyway. But the game's Ebon Hawk model is of lower quality than the cinematic ones, so I'd say that would be needed before anything.

Well, the others are equally bad / low quality so I don't see the point in doing only some cutscenes. But let's not discuss this in this thread. If someone wants to start such a project, he/she now knows that there are others who'd help and can create a thread for it.

I've made a request for something like this before, albeit with a much smaller scope.  This request would be for all of the landing and take off scenes in the games. I've got a suggestion for readers of this thread: please leave this thread for the folks that'll actually be working on the landing and take off videos. I'm sure they'll ask for your input if and when they need it. Helpful things to mention would likely be what sort of expertise you could offer for such a project.

 

(Modders quoted above, let me know if I need to adjust the wording of this initial post. PM me with suggestions. Admins may make alterations to this post without asking.)

[Kexikus 995]

Okay, as I said, I'd definitely help such a project and here's what I could offer:

• I could create planet backdrops, i.e. planets seen from space as we'd need those for all the landing and take-off videos. For examples on planet backdrops I created before, you can have a look at my TSL Backdrop Improvement mod
• I could do some animations in Terragen. I'm not quite sure how useful that'd be as most of the shots use the actual area models and can therefore just use the skybox (btw, I'd love to sneak my HD skyboxes in there ) but I think there are some shots that show the Ebon Hawk flying over terrain somewhere further from the landing pad and those could be rendered entirely in Terragen, using the terrains I make for my skyboxes. The problem here could be that the lighting and other details might differ between a scene rendered in Terragen and whatever other rendering software we'd use, so that it might not even be very beneficial.

And I think that's about it^^ I have some experience with making 3D models but there are others here that are way better and way faster at making them, so I'd leave that to you.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

My feeling is that the Ebon Hawk models are probably mostly ok, they primarily need some new textures. Looking at the Peragus and Korriban videos, the CG model doesn't look significantly more detailed. That said, it's certainly feasible to touch the old girl up a bit, add in some extra geometry where necessary.

 

That's probably getting ahead of things though. I would think the logical place to start would be producing a spreadsheet of exactly what is needed for each shot in terms of assets, determining what already exists in the game content that can be used as-is, what can be used but needs some TLC, and what needs to be scratchbuilt. Then you can start soliciting for volunteers to tackle the various bits. It would presumably be wise to make use of some sort of tracking/project management system. And something like a GIT or SVN repository would be useful for sharing/storing the assets.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

I have very little to offer skill-wise, but there is this video I found on youtube of some random guy who did an Ebon Hawk landing video

 

 

Kind of hard to tell if he was using a new model or the in-game one.

[Domino5555 119]

That video looks like pre-rendered CGI, and I don't think that it's the original model for the Ebon Hawk.

[superSzym 155]

That video is basically too high quality for KotOR. You won't get such quality in the game even if you would use the best overhaul imaginable. But would it be possible to recreate landing and take-off scenes directly in the game? If it is, why should we rely on ancient Bink Video technology? Rendering in-game would be the best solution possible, because the file would weight less than a couple of .bik videos, the movies would fit every resolution and you would be going to see your reskins and it makes the immersion coming with mods grow. A sense of immersion is a very important thing when using the mod, and if there's a possibility to make it happen in more cases, why not go with it?

[Jenko 53]

Alright, here we go. Just focusing on the landing and take off videos. (Though I did recreate the dream on Dantooine for KOTOR: Episode 1: A Familiar Path... these cutscenes would be easy to replace too...) There are some that will be substantially more difficult than others (escaping Taris for example, or crashing on Malachor V).

 

No, a BIK would still be the best option. Otherwise you'd be making a stunt module including space and the planet for each planet. Plus as of this writing - we haven't found an option to have glowing engines in the game. 

 

Now, the best option would be to use the HQ skyboxes and record the game at the highest possible settings using Fraps and create a new BIK that way. The Ebon Hawk would be animated in 3ds Max and placed back into the game using cutscene animations or as an animated placeable. We'd have to record twice and do some After Effects work to get the glowing engines on the back of the Hawk. 

 

Doing it this way, in game fixes a lot of issues with doing the BIKs entirely in 3ds max. While we can import areas, they don't look right, the lighting isn't the same. Compositing the Ebon Hawk generally produces the same result - inconsistent lighting with the background taken from in-game footage. 

 

Basically - cameras and animations created in 3ds max for the atmosphere portions of the landing videos. Not sure about the vents and such for the Hawk, that might be a question for JC. Entirely 3ds/After Effects created CGI for the space portions. 

 

An early example of the atmosphere portion would be found in KOTOR Episode 1, where we animated the Ebon Hawk leaving Dantooine in the level itself. The camera is a little rough, could be done better now. But, the point remains. Example.

 

Anyways... I'd try and contribute, but a lot of my free time has been given up to working on our next movie project. I have the 3ds and AE knowledge to do cameras, animations and CGI. Examples of my animation and CGI work can be found here (I created all the space shots in this sequence aside from the ones inside the Hawk's turret view), and here (Everything outside the windows was created in 3DS max).

 

If the scope of the project were to expand past the landing and take off cutscenes, we'd have to start thinking about more complex scenes like the space battles or unique character animations. I'm half-decent at the latter as seen here for DarthYcey's film.

[Kexikus 995]

Doing it this way, in game fixes a lot of issues with doing the BIKs entirely in 3ds max. While we can import areas, they don't look right, the lighting isn't the same. Compositing the Ebon Hawk generally produces the same result - inconsistent lighting with the background taken from in-game footage.

 

Have you tried this with the new model tools? No idea if they changed anything in this regard, but I feel like setting this up in max would be far easier than syncing KotOR cameras to other max cameras and doing the composite work. But then again, I never tried any of this, so I don't know^^

[Jenko 53]

The new tools don't make a difference with that really. It does mean I don't have to screw around with MDLOps, which I'm thankful for.

But somewhat recently, JCarter426 and I basically found that we can create animated cameras in 3ds max and put them in the game. Instead of using Anicam.... Yuck. Anyways, even if compositing is required, it's much easier as the 3ds camera and the game's will match. But still, for lighting we'd put the animated Hawk in game. It's not terribly difficult and will yield the best results for recording things.

 

EDIT: Anyways, I can contribute as time permits. Like I said, it might be limited but it seems like the animation piece that JC and I are versed in is the missing piece. If someone could organize it that would be ideal.

 

ALSO! Fans of our movies will know that I'm also working on a Special Edition of KOTOR Episode 2: Veil of the Dark Side. So, I'd be looking to cross Dantooine, Manaan, Tatooine, Yavin IV and the Levithan off the list

[JCarter426 1,214]

My feeling is that the Ebon Hawk models are probably mostly ok, they primarily need some new textures. Looking at the Peragus and Korriban videos, the CG model doesn't look significantly more detailed. That said, it's certainly feasible to touch the old girl up a bit, add in some extra geometry where necessary.

 

I looked at the model again and I think you're right. The main problem I had with it in the past turned out to be some issue with the smoothing rendering properly, and once that's fixed it looks better. Touch ups would still be nice, of course, and a new turret model would be required for the Peragus departure. There isn't one in the game.

 

Another model that's not in the game is Ahto City. I did create one for new scenes (as seen

) but the quality was not great. The geometry of Ahto City is not that complicated, though, so I'm sure it would be no trouble for the modelers here.

 

Oh, we also don't have Yavin Station.

 

Basically - cameras and animations created in 3ds max for the atmosphere portions of the landing videos. Not sure about the vents and such for the Hawk, that might be a question for JC. Entirely 3ds/After Effects created CGI for the space portions.

 

I still have to figure out how to trigger emitters on and off, but I'm pretty sure it's doable. They're on loop in some hangars, so the settings and positions can be copied from there.

 

One thing I'm not so sure about is the dust clouds on Tatooine and Korriban.

 

Have you tried this with the new model tools? No idea if they changed anything in this regard, but I feel like setting this up in max would be far easier than syncing KotOR cameras to other max cameras and doing the composite work. But then again, I never tried any of this, so I don't know^^

The new tools don't make a difference with that really. It does mean I don't have to screw around with MDLOps, which I'm thankful for.

Yeah, it's not an importing issue. Well, there are importing issues (like the smoothing I mentioned) but most of those can be fixed. The main issue is the game doesn't run on 3ds Max; it runs on the Odyssey engine. A lot of the visuals are rendered through that and don't exist as anything you can import in a modeling program - the lighting, the grass, the particles, etc. A lot of it looks like empty boxes and nonsense in 3ds. So that won't get us anywhere. Better to use the game as a rendering engine.

[Jenko 53]

 

Yeah, it's not an importing issue. Well, there are importing issues (like the smoothing I mentioned) but most of those can be fixed. The main issue is the game doesn't run on 3ds Max; it runs on the Odyssey engine. A lot of the visuals are rendered through that and don't exist as anything you can import in a modeling program - the lighting, the grass, the particles, etc. A lot of it looks like empty boxes and nonsense in 3ds. So that won't get us anywhere. Better to use the game as a rendering engine.

 

I actually have a fantastic example of this. I made this behind the scenes video of the swoop bike chase from KOTOR Episode 1 that I never got around to finishing.The scene was done in 3ds and then placed in game as a rendering engine. As JC said, in 3ds you have weird lighting, no grass, etc. This 3ds -> game technique would be used to animate the Hawk landing on a planets.

 

Oh, and Kexikus, those are your HQ skyboxes on Dantooine

[DarthParametric 3,782]

Oh, we also don't have Yavin Station.

It's basically just a giant lightsaber with a couple of flappy bits.

 

 

I don't think recreating it would prove to be a significant challenge.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

 

It's basically just a giant lightsaber with a couple of flappy bits.

 

 

I don't think recreating it would prove to be a significant challenge.

The hangar itself would also be needed as well.  I've made a separate request to support that need.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

The hangar itself would also be needed as well.  I've made a separate request to support that need.

Yes, I noticed. To be honest that's premature at this stage. At this point we need discussion and organisation. Randomly making stuff now is a waste of time, as chances are it could end up needing to be partially or wholly remade at a later date once all the requirements are known. And regardless, doing it via random request threads is not the way to go. That way lies madness.

 

If you are keen to pitch in SH, I'd suggest there are far more useful contributions you could make in an administrative capacity.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

If you are keen to pitch in SH, I'd suggest there are far more useful contributions you could make in an administrative capacity.

Such as?

[DarthParametric 3,782]

The forum has a large mod projects sub-forum. I'd suggest that if this project is to progress to anything significant, an early point of business would be creating a dedicated sub-forum for it. That seems like it would fall under your purview.

 

Depending on how hands on you want to be, there are a myriad of managerial/organisational type things that you could do. Having been involved in an (ultimately failed) large mod project before, I know firsthand that these sorts of things live or die based on organisation. Trying to get a group of disparate modders to do anything collectively is like herding cats. It will quickly fall into a heap unless things are very clearly planned out.

 

As an example, for myself as a potentially interested contributor, what I absolutely need is a clear outline of exactly what the project is doing, what has been done, and what yet remains to be done, and who is doing what. I need a list of tasks that are awaiting assignment that I can peruse, and if one takes my fancy I need very specific guidelines for what is required and by when. To use the Yavin station as an example, I would want specifics of size/dimensions, does it have to be fully constructed or do you only need a camera facing half, is it a high poly CG model or a low poly game model, does it need lightmapping UVs, do I need to create the textures, what's the timeline for completion, etc. Who do I talk to if I have questions/problems, how do I report my progress, what do I do with the final assets? And if I agree to undertake this task, then it needs to be made clear that this task has been assigned, so someone else isn't doubling up the same work. Someone, or possibly several someones, needs to implement and manage such a system.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Only Tyvokka can create subforums.

[Tyvokka 198]

Anyone can request a sub-forum. I am behind in making some much needed sub-forums but shoot me a PM.

[Jenko 53]

Agree with Parametric. I'll be down to contribute my animation, camera work and filming experience to such a project. But organization will certainly be key.

 

First step definitely will be to start a subforum and start seeing what's going to have to be done. I'll have to take a look at the BIKs and think about what we need.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

Playing through Onderon, a couple of a additions to the wish list come to mind. JCarter and I discussed these previously at points, namely the Mandalorian shuttle and the Basilisk War Droid. If you were going to remake the landing videos, might as well add those two to the list. That would be a good opportunity to switch out the in-game appearance of the shuttle, swapping the G-Wing for something else. And of course tackling the issue of the canonicity of the Basilisk's appearance (or lack thereof).

[Kexikus 995]

That seems like a very good and reasonable suggestion.

[InSidious 237]

There's not much I can offer to this project other than good wishes, but...

 

On the subject of the Yavin IV hangar, it looks very like the Ahto hangar reskinned to me.

[Malkior 476]

There's not much I can offer to this project other than good wishes, but...

 

On the subject of the Yavin IV hangar, it looks very like the Ahto hangar reskinned to me.

That's an interesting thought. What would the Massassi temple have for a landing pad? Plus, I don't remember Kotor having you actually land on the planet. Would this also be for BOSSR, or some other like mod expansion?

[Haveayap 127]

That's an interesting thought. What would the Massassi temple have for a landing pad? Plus, I don't remember Kotor having you actually land on the planet. Would this also be for BOSSR, or some other like mod expansion?

I think there is an old mod that allows u to land on yavin 4... probably what he means

[InSidious 237]

I think there is an old mod that allows u to land on yavin 4... probably what he means

Nope. I mean the landing-pad on the Yavin IV space station, shown in the landing/takeoff BIKs.