Star Wars Episode VII Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

WARNING: MASSIVE SPOILERS

 

For spoiler-free discussion, go to this thread: here

 

I'll start things off...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Man, how about that opening crawl and scene?

 

Star Destroyer completely eclipses Jakku? Oh my God, that was so cool and set the tone for the movie.

 

 

Guys, this has set the precedent for the next couple of years. Definitely seeing this at least twice more

 

Rogue One, Episode VIII, Episode IX, Han Solo + Boba Fett solo movies?

[Kay_Sunrider 21]

8.9 out of 10 the plot reminded me way too much of the original trilogy. Finn and Rey are rehashes of Ania solo and Jao Assam (not that that's bad because I love Ania and Jao from the EU)

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Yes, but to be fair, they can't technically be rehashes because those characters don't exist in the movie universe.

 

There were a lot of similarities between this and the original trilogy, yes.

 

I wish they'd tried to make a more unique story, particularly for the third act, but I don't think the result was all that bad.

[Mutilator57 140]

...Man, how about that opening crawl and scene?

 

Star Destroyer completely eclipses Jakku? Oh my God, that was so cool and set the tone for the movie.

I thoroughly agree. I had been wondering how they would introduce the movie impactfully without emulating the classic New Hope intro. I was not disappointed!

 

In terms of the story however, I had my issues particularity with the way the First Order was portrayed. I get that their meant to be evil and all, but characterising them as frothing-at-the-mouth villains, exemplified especially by the dramatic speech by the General to all of the stormtroopers, was unnecessary and made the overall tone and characters seem a bit flat and one-dimensional.

[Haveayap 127]

Yes, but to be fair, they can't technically be rehashes because those characters don't exist in the movie universe.

 

There were a lot of similarities between this and the original trilogy, yes.

 

I wish they'd tried to make a more unique story, particularly for the third act, but I don't think the result was all that bad.

That stupid weapon, The star killer really bugged me. I was fine with the rest on the most part, but why do the bad guys weapons get more vulnerable with each movie? Id rate the movie a 8/10 overall.

 

The acting for the most part was great (Harrison Ford and John Boyega were great in their roles, I also felt we didnt get to see enough of Oscar Isaac). Their were also some pretty emotional scenes during the movie (My favorite being the moment when Kylo kills his father, it was so sad and to see the reaction Chewie  summed it up (I also found the reactions between Leia and chewie interesting, like he blames her for something... I knew about the frictions between Leia, Han and Luke before hand because of other books and stuff, but chewies reaction again, probably summed it all up). I also feel as though Snoke could be one of the best villians in SW history, his whole backstory and rise to power (which I will not explain here, you will have to go read the material yourself) intrigues me and I really want to know about this source of 'power' that he believes lays beyond the outer rim (It sounds similar to the same source of power that the Rakatans generated to create the Star Forge, but time will tell I guess). Reys connection to the Skywalkers also interested me... It almost felt like she had been trained by someone (presumably Luke) and her mind had been wiped after a certain event (Which again, presumable Bens fall to the dark side).

 

The score was decent as well, I really liked 'March of the resistance', 'torn apart' and the music that plays when Rey enters the temple at the end of the movie

 

(On a side note, Id really wish that they left Han alone after this movie, I feel as though a movie about Han is not needed)

[HDR1 4]

I really liked the movie.

 

It just did a lot of things right. I know some people say that it felt like a lot of plot elements from the older movies were rehashed, but I don't really agree. Yes, some plot elements were reused, but it was done in a way that was still interesting, because they twisted the plot elements around. And to be fair, what Star Wars products don't reuse some elements? The Darth Caedus storyline in the EU reuses the family connection between the hero and the villain, the Legacy comics reuse the idea of a bunch of dark siders wanting to eradicate the Jedi, etc. Heck, even the beloved KotOR reuses a lot of stuff. Revan being some kind of be-all end-all force user like Anakin, or the young, headstrong, Jedi Bastila turning to the Dark Side or the major twist regarding the bond between the hero and the villain, or the Star Forge having a similar role to the Death Star...

 

I also think there was a good balance of characters. Poe's role was relatively minor, but he'll probably appear more in later episodes, other than that it was well done. The old characters like Han and Chewie had significant roles, without overshadowing the newcomers like Rey and Finn, it was a nice balance. The new actors did a great job as well, I was especially happy with John Boyega. The poor guy was always presented in rather unflattering situations in the trailers, always being in distress and sweating, so I was kinda unsure what they were going for with Finn. However he ended up being my favorite new character, the guy has heart.

 

What was probably my favourite thing though, is that the Force felt mystical again. Having Rey figure out some of the basic stuff instinctively (or maybe because she heard the legends of Luke's abilities?) felt refreshing. One of the things I always disliked about the EU and the video games was how they made the Force feel almost...mechanical? Like it was just another superpower that allowed you to use specific abilities like Force Lightning™ or Force Push™. It made the Force lose its wonder. In the Original Trilogy it was implied that the Force can be used for a great many things depending on the user's wishes, and then came the EU, the games and the Prequels, and suddenly you had a bunch of Jedi using the exact same tradmarked abilities in the exact same way. The Force Awakens reflected the mystical wonder of the Force as it was presented in A New Hope with Rey learning to do things by herself and not being told by a teacher that having the Force would let her do a Force Mind Trick™ or whatever.

 

I just wish Episode VIII wouldn't be so far away. The movie left a good number of questions open that I'm really interested in finding out the answer to. I honestly don't care for Rogue One or any of the other Anthology movies, they feel completely unnecessary to me and I think they only exist to cash-in by using the Marvel Universe formula, so it's gonna be a long wait for me. Oh and another great thing is that the even though the movie is very obviously the first part of a new trilogy, it still felt like a complete movie that can stand on its own. It was just like A New Hope in that respect, both films were open to continuation while still feeling complete on their own.

 

Damn, this ended up being longer than I expected.

[Haveayap 127]

I really liked the movie.

 

It just did a lot of things right. I know some people say that it felt like a lot of plot elements from the older movies were rehashed, but I don't really agree. Yes, some plot elements were reused, but it was done in a way that was still interesting, because they twisted the plot elements around. And to be fair, what Star Wars products don't reuse some elements? The Darth Caedus storyline in the EU reuses the family connection between the hero and the villain, the Legacy comics reuse the idea of a bunch of dark siders wanting to eradicate the Jedi, etc. Heck, even the beloved KotOR reuses a lot of stuff. Revan being some kind of be-all end-all force user like Anakin, or the young, headstrong, Jedi Bastila turning to the Dark Side or the major twist regarding the bond between the hero and the villain, or the Star Forge having a similar role to the Death Star...

 

I also think there was a good balance of characters. Poe's role was relatively minor, but he'll probably appear more in later episodes, other than that it was well done. The old characters like Han and Chewie had significant roles, without overshadowing the newcomers like Rey and Finn, it was a nice balance. The new actors did a great job as well, I was especially happy with John Boyega. The poor guy was always presented in rather unflattering situations in the trailers, always being in distress and sweating, so I was kinda unsure what they were going for with Finn. However he ended up being my favorite new character, the guy has heart.

 

What was probably my favourite thing though, is that the Force felt mystical again. Having Rey figure out some of the basic stuff instinctively (or maybe because she heard the legends of Luke's abilities?) felt refreshing. One of the things I always disliked about the EU and the video games was how they made the Force feel almost...mechanical? Like it was just another superpower that allowed you to use specific abilities like Force Lightning™ or Force Push™. It made the Force lose its wonder. In the Original Trilogy it was implied that the Force can be used for a great many things depending on the user's wishes, and then came the EU, the games and the Prequels, and suddenly you had a bunch of Jedi using the exact same tradmarked abilities in the exact same way. The Force Awakens reflected the mystical wonder of the Force as it was presented in A New Hope with Rey learning to do things by herself and not being told by a teacher that having the Force would let her do a Force Mind Trick™ or whatever.

 

I just wish Episode VIII wouldn't be so far away. The movie left a good number of questions open that I'm really interested in finding out the answer to. I honestly don't care for Rogue One or any of the other Anthology movies, they feel completely unnecessary to me and I think they only exist to cash-in by using the Marvel Universe formula, so it's gonna be a long wait for me. Oh and another great thing is that the even though the movie is very obviously the first part of a new trilogy, it still felt like a complete movie that can stand on its own. It was just like A New Hope in that respect, both films were open to continuation while still feeling complete on their own.

 

Damn, this ended up being longer than I expected.

Slight spoiler but rey has had training (why she knew kylos real name and luke was profounded to see her), she was young when that all happened

[1Leonard 134]

Slight spoiler but rey has had training (why she knew kylos real name and luke was profounded to see her), she was young when that all happened

spoiler? You're essentially pulling that out of your ass. No one in the movie said anything of the sorts.

 

I liked Episode VII a lot, even though it was kind of a rethread of episode IV, I can get why they did that for the first Star Wars movie in ten years, though I hope they take it in a new direction for the next installments.

 

I'll probably see it again a couple of times.

[Mephiles550 227]

Was there a reveal of Supreme Leader Snoke in the movie? I can't find any pictures of him. Anyone know what he looks like?

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

...Force Lightning™ or Force Push™. It made the Force lose its wonder. ... not being told by a teacher that having the Force would let her do a Force Mind Trick™ or whatever.

That's actually a really good point.

 

Initially, that was one of the parts of the movie that I found to be... sort of weird.

 

Like sure go figure, Rey just happens to begin learning of these Force powers and she's of course, a natural at it, with no prior training.

 

But I totally get where you're coming from. Adding the mysticism back in adds a nice touch, and also helps to establish a new precedent for Force usage. I've been spending too much Star Wars time in Knights of the Old Republic, and consequently, the EU, where the Force rules are pretty well-established. I understand a little better the decision to clean house...

 

... That said, I still hold that unless something directly conflicts with the movie canon, it can still co-exist. There's always been a certain degree of separation between the movies and EU anyways.

 

 

Next time I go see it, I'll have to watch it through a different lens

 

Was there a reveal of Supreme Leader Snoke in the movie? I can't find any pictures of him. Anyone know what he looks like?

He was the "big" weird-looking guy that would talk to Kylo Ren.

[Domino5555 119]

Judging from what I've heard, The Force Awakens sounds like a future reboot of Star Wars. Let's see what's similar between Episode VII and A New Hope:

 

Protagonist comes from desert planet, check.

Villains have planet destroying (or star system destroying) superweapon, check.

Said villains use said weapon to destroy a planet in order to intimidate the galaxy, check.

Superweapon looks like a planet, check.

Said superweapon is destroyed by X-Wings, check.

Old guy dies, check.

Antagonist is somehow related to the heroes, check.

Superweapon tries to destroy good guys' base and fails, check.

Is there any other similarities that I've missed?

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Judging from what I've heard, The Force Awakens sounds like a future reboot of Star Wars. Let's see what's similar between Episode VII and A New Hope:

That's a bit over-simplified.

 

Protagonist comes from desert planet, check.

But not the same desert planet, and not under the same circumstances.

 

Villains have planet destroying (or star system destroying) superweapon, check.

Yeah, hard to argue that one. Since when is there ever NOT a planet-destroying super-weapon though?

 

Said villains use said weapon to destroy a planet in order to intimidate the galaxy, check.

Three I believe.

 

Superweapon looks like a planet, check.

It was a planet.

 

Said superweapon is destroyed by X-Wings, check.

X-wings destroy everything, don't they?

 

Old guy dies, check.

Yes, but under different circumstances. They're not age-old enemies like Obi-Wan and Darth Vader. They're Father and Son (yeah, I know, recurring theme).

 

Antagonist is somehow related to the heroes, check.

But that's become such a common trope, you can't say that it's only a Star Wars thing at this point.

 

Superweapon tries to destroy good guys' base and fails, check.

True

 

Is there any other similarities that I've missed?

Cantina, Entrusting vital information with a droid.

 

To be fair, I imagine both are common things in the Star Wars universe. Pretty much every bar is going to have aliens in it.

 

And storing information in droids is probably a very common use case. Take this electronic deposit to the bank for me BB-8. beep boop beep

 

 

Joking aside, I do understand that there are a lot of similarities to the Original Trilogy, but saying it's a reboot of A New Hope is an over-simplification, in my opinion.

[Haveayap 127]

spoiler? You're essentially pulling that out of your ass. No one in the movie said anything of the sorts.

 

I liked Episode VII a lot, even though it was kind of a rethread of episode IV, I can get why they did that for the first Star Wars movie in ten years, though I hope they take it in a new direction for the next installments.

 

I'll probably see it again a couple of times.

in one of the books released a week before TFA (Cant remember the name as their were around 6 of them released), It goes into detail about Luke having two apprentices (As he wanted to start a jedi academy)... One was corrupted and we dont really learn what happens to the other before he goes into exile. I am just speculating; but Im assuming Rey was the other apprentice (Considering she knew how to use the force and she knew Kylos real name without being told what it is (And I doubt it was common knowledge who he was))

 

 

That's a bit over-simplified.

 

 

But not the same desert planet, and not under the same circumstances.

 

 

Yeah, hard to argue that one. Since when is there ever NOT a planet-destroying super-weapon though? 

 

 

Three I believe.

 

 

It was a planet.

 

 

X-wings destroy everything, don't they?

 

 

Yes, but under different circumstances. They're not age-old enemies like Obi-Wan and Darth Vader. They're Father and Son (yeah, I know, recurring theme).

 

 

But that's become such a common trope, you can't say that it's only a Star Wars thing at this point.

 

 

True

 

 

Cantina, Entrusting vital information with a droid.

 

To be fair, I imagine both are common things in the Star Wars universe. Pretty much every bar is going to have aliens in it.

 

And storing information in droids is probably a very common use case. Take this electronic deposit to the bank for me BB-8. beep boop beep

 

 

Joking aside, I do understand that there are a lot of similarities to the Original Trilogy, but saying it's a reboot of A New Hope is an over-simplification, in my opinion.

 

Id say its like they took the main plot points from ANH and ESB and mixed them into one movie 

[Todd Hellid 16]

What does Luke Skywalker do in this one? Does he die?

[zbyl2 811]

What does Luke Skywalker do in this one? Does he die?

He turns around.

(that's literally all he does, he's in the movie for about 20 seconds and doesn't have a single line)

 

 

Judging from what I've heard, The Force Awakens sounds like a future reboot of Star Wars.

It's basically a remake of Episode IV. In no way can it be considered a reboot, though.

 

 

 

in one of the books released a week before TFA (Cant remember the name as their were around 6 of them released), It goes into detail about Luke having two apprentices (As he wanted to start a jedi academy)... One was corrupted and we dont really learn what happens to the other before he goes into exile. I am just speculating; but Im assuming Rey was the other apprentice (Considering she knew how to use the force and she knew Kylos real name without being told what it is (And I doubt it was common knowledge who he was))

If I have to read a book to understand a movie then the movie is failing. Amount of people who will familiarize themselves with that book is smaller than amount of people who pre-ordered the tickets after seeing the trailer, not to mention amount of all people who will see the movie.

And didn't they say that Kylo Ren killed Luke's apprentices, and that's the reason he went into hiding, because he blamed himself?

 

 

Oh and another great thing is that the even though the movie is very obviously the first part of a new trilogy, it still felt like a complete movie that can stand on its own. It was just like A New Hope in that respect, both films were open to continuation while still feeling complete on their own.

Did you miss that cliffhanger ending? It doesn't stand on its own, just like The Empire Strikes Back doesn't. A New Hope stood on its own and if there wasn't any follow up to it, it would have still been a classic. The Force Awakens NEEDS a continuation.

 

All in all, it was a good movie. Very fun. My biggest gripe with it is that it didn't even try to explain what the situation in the galaxy is, and everything just became confusing because of it.

Like, if the New Republic exists, why is there still need for the Rebelion (sorry, Resistance!)? What exactly is the First Order and how did they amass their army and resources to build a Super Death Star into a planet? Why isn't the Republic bothered by it and all that's left to fight them is 10 X-Wing?

None of that makes any sense. Well, maybe it could, if someone attempted to explain it.

 

For comparison's sake, in A New Hope, everything was clear after first five minutes. The Empire rules the galaxy and had everything they needed, the Rebels didn't like it and couldn't really put up much of a fight.

 

Also Snoke is a stupid name and I laughed out loud when Kylo Ren took off his mask. Super Death Star destroying five planets at once was pretty funny, too.

[milestails 264]

Someone on this forum called it that Han would die. I had a feeling he would as well watching the movie.

 

Agreed with the above points about the over-usage of OT elements. Have to appease a fan base that worried about Disney taking over and Mickey Mousing the whole thing.

 

I felt the ending was too rushed. They didn't need to reveal Luke until VIII, I think. No need to show the climbing the mountain sequence so quickly.

 

Was that Coruscant they destroyed? The city planet?

[Todd Hellid 16]

He turns around.

(that's literally all he does, he's in the movie for about 20 seconds and doesn't have a single line)

Wow! That sucks. Luke not having a major role makes me not want to go see it.

[zbyl2 811]

He's probably going to have a major role in Episode 8 and die in 9.

That means either Leia or Chewbacca will die in 8

[milestails 264]

His absence (presence) in the movie is felt all the way through. I think they should have left it at that. Introduce him in VIII.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

It's basically a remake of Episode IV. In no way can it be considered a reboot, though.

I fail to see how it's a remake of A New Hope.

 

Similar plot elements? Yes

Parallels drawn? Yes

 

But it doesn't have the same story as A New Hope, therefore it can't really be a remake. Also not a reboot because it's in the same universe.

 

Also Snoke is a stupid name and I laughed out loud when Kylo Ren took off his mask. Super Death Star destroying five planets at once was pretty funny, too.

It's less stupid than General Grievous, Count Dooku, Savage Oppress

 

As for Kylo Ren, I'm glad that they took off his mask and that he wasn't horribly disfigured. No need to draw even more parallels from the Original Trilogy by having a bad guy that's exactly like Darth Vader, right?

 

As for blowing up planets... yeah, that's... been done, hasn't it?

[zbyl2 811]

I fail to see how it's a remake of A New Hope.

 

Similar plot elements? Yes

Parallels drawn? Yes

 

But it doesn't have the same story as A New Hope, therefore it can't really be a remake. Also not a reboot because it's in the same universe.

 

It is pretty much the same story, though With few slight differences, sure, but yeah.

Just to be clear, I still thought it was a fun movie and I'll watch it again.

 

 

It's less stupid than General Grievous, Count Dooku, Savage Oppress

I wouldn't say it's less stupid.

It honestly sounds like a good name for a puppy, and not a Sith Lord.

 

 

As for Kylo Ren, I'm glad that they took off his mask and that he wasn't horribly disfigured. No need to draw even more parallels from the Original Trilogy by having a bad guy that's exactly like Darth Vader, right?

He was a very menacing bad guy when he destroyed that village in the beginning with squad of stormtroopers and for some time after that. He lost the scary factor when he took off the mask.

I feel like Kylo Ren would have worked better if they casted someone else in the role.

 

 

As for blowing up planets... yeah, that's... been done, hasn't it?

I was not expecting it to blow up three planets at once.

I can imagine writers and producers sitting in a room, wondering how they could top a Death Star, and someone jokingly saying that it should blow up whole solar systems and be powered by stars, not expecting it would actually making it into a script.

 

To be fair I was worried about that new Death Start ever since we first saw it on a poster. I hoped they'd do something more original this time around.

[Haveayap 127]

Just read this:

 

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-journey-force-awakens-guide/2/

 

This is the most accurate timeline I can find (it lacks some details, but is good on the most part, keep in mind that several more books were released the same day as TFA which explains Reys connection with everyone)

[HDR1 4]

Did you miss that cliffhanger ending? It doesn't stand on its own, just like The Empire Strikes Back doesn't. A New Hope stood on its own and if there wasn't any follow up to it, it would have still been a classic. The Force Awakens NEEDS a continuation.

Just because it ends on a cliffhanger doesn't mean it can't stand on its own though. Maybe I used the wrong phrase, but what I was trying to say is that it is a complete movie. Empire is the same way, they both have cliffhanger endings but also build up to a final act in a logical manner. The key main characters (Finn, Rey and Han) also have complete character arcs, and the key plot elements that are introduced are mostly resolved, and the main goal (finding Luke) is achieved.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not something like say, Hunger Games 3 Part 1, where it is feels like half the movie is missing. I dread what would happen to Episode IX if it was split in two like that.

[zbyl2 811]

Just read this:

 

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-journey-force-awakens-guide/2/

 

This is the most accurate timeline I can find (it lacks some details, but is good on the most part)

Having to read a five pages screenrant article to understand a plot is worse than having to read a book. My complaint still stands, as nothing was explained in a movie.

 

I can just sit down and watch A New Hope and enjoy the experience without it raising any backstory questions. In order to understand what exactly all the bureaucratic disputes were supposed to lead to in The Phantom Menace, I had to read a book leading up to it. Guess which one was a better movie?

(I don't really mean to compare TPM to TFA as far as movie-making quality goes! Obviously there's no contest here)

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not something like say, Hunger Games 3 Part 1, where it is feels like half the movie is missing. I dread what would happen to Episode IX if it was split in two like that.

Fair enough, we'll just have to disagree on what "stand on its own" means. As far as I'm concerned, it means that a movie ended and it's OK if they don't make a sequel.

[Haveayap 127]

Having to read a five pages screenrant article to understand a plot is worse than having to read a book. My complaint still stands, as nothing was explained in a movie.

 

I can just sit down and watch A New Hope and enjoy the experience without it raising any backstory questions. In order to understand what exactly all the bureaucratic disputes were supposed to lead to in The Phantom Menace, I had to read a book leading up to it. Guess which one was a better movie?

 

 

Fair enough, we'll just have to disagree on what "stand on its own" means. As far as I'm concerned, it means that a movie ended and it's OK if they don't make a sequel.

I agree with you, the movie doesnt stand on its own but it is great after you have read all the material and I hope EP. 8 and 9 are great (and dont follow recognizable plots)