Basil Bonehead's Mod Analysis Facility

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I will just leave this here and walk away, whistling innocently...

[Kaidon Jorn 196]

Worst nightmare I've had since I started playing this game and modding it. Nothing is finished, and what is "finished", is bugged as all get out. 

It's just a horrible crammed together  mess. 

[LDR 234]

18 hours ago, Basil Bonehead said:

While I work on the Czerka Commando video, I already know what mod I want to cover next (since I won't be able to stream it): the infamous Cathalan. This will be an interesting one to cover because I know this mod is not looked at fondly and that leads to my next question:

Why is Cathalan so despised by the community? I want all your takes, I want to know what all of you think. It'll be interesting when I start working on the video because I may have played the mod twice and I have very faint memories of it so it'll be interesting and see what I do and don't remember.

Sometimes I feel bad when I tear apart Cathalan, because clearly at some point there was a really great idea and a lot of thought went behind it. But the fact of the matter is for whatever scope, grandeur and ambition that the mod author Jaevyn had, he had precisely none of that in quality control, quality assurance, bug testing, and responsiveness to feedback. I recall Jaevyn flaming many people who had differing opinions on his mod. How dare you say anything that isn't complete praise on his beautiful darling baby Cathalan!

In all seriousness though, Cathalan had the potential to be great and something really special. Unfortunately, Jaevyn's ego and his insistence that the mod was perfect the way it was despite serious concerns brought on by the community (using copyrighted music, numerous game-breaking bugs, inconsistent VO quality, the orange filter, various plot holes, amongst other minor things) really sealed the deal for Cathalan becoming the butt of jokes in the community. If only he was a nice guy, things could've turned out a lot differently.

It's a shame. It really is.

[Basil Bonehead 99]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:14 PM, LDR said:

Sometimes I feel bad when I tear apart Cathalan, because clearly at some point there was a really great idea and a lot of thought went behind it. But the fact of the matter is for whatever scope, grandeur and ambition that the mod author Jaevyn had, he had precisely none of that in quality control, quality assurance, bug testing, and responsiveness to feedback. I recall Jaevyn flaming many people who had differing opinions on his mod. How dare you say anything that isn't complete praise on his beautiful darling baby Cathalan!

In all seriousness though, Cathalan had the potential to be great and something really special. Unfortunately, Jaevyn's ego and his insistence that the mod was perfect the way it was despite serious concerns brought on by the community (using copyrighted music, numerous game-breaking bugs, inconsistent VO quality, the orange filter, various plot holes, amongst other minor things) really sealed the deal for Cathalan becoming the butt of jokes in the community. If only he was a nice guy, things could've turned out a lot differently.

It's a shame. It really is.

Great explanation. I didn't know Jaevyn was hostile to people who criticized his mod. I shouldn't be surprised because I've seen this story many times over the years.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:45 PM, Basil Bonehead said:

While I work on the Czerka Commando video, I already know what mod I want to cover next (since I won't be able to stream it): the infamous Cathalan. This will be an interesting one to cover because I know this mod is not looked at fondly and that leads to my next question:

Why is Cathalan so despised by the community? I want all your takes, I want to know what all of you think. It'll be interesting when I start working on the video because I may have played the mod twice and I have very faint memories of it so it'll be interesting and see what I do and don't remember.

For my participation in Cathalan, it started from me complaining about the NPCs having an orange tint to them - and it's a criticism I just kept repeating and mocking him for over the years, particularly in one thread here where I publicly aired some drama (that I ultimately instigated) and posted a review video of Cathalan for the sole purpose of mocking him.

It's something I deeply regret. I'm still not 100% sure of what my motives were back then, but I know that I had the wrong attitude toward him and his mod.

On 9/14/2022 at 5:14 PM, LDR said:

Sometimes I feel bad when I tear apart Cathalan, because clearly at some point there was a really great idea and a lot of thought went behind it. But the fact of the matter is for whatever scope, grandeur and ambition that the mod author Jaevyn had, he had precisely none of that in quality control, quality assurance, bug testing, and responsiveness to feedback. I recall Jaevyn flaming many people who had differing opinions on his mod. How dare you say anything that isn't complete praise on his beautiful darling baby Cathalan!

In all seriousness though, Cathalan had the potential to be great and something really special. Unfortunately, Jaevyn's ego and his insistence that the mod was perfect the way it was despite serious concerns brought on by the community (using copyrighted music, numerous game-breaking bugs, inconsistent VO quality, the orange filter, various plot holes, amongst other minor things) really sealed the deal for Cathalan becoming the butt of jokes in the community. If only he was a nice guy, things could've turned out a lot differently.

I agree with what LDR has said, it was a great idea and had the potential to be something great and special, and I'd love to see Cathalan get an update and for Jaevyn to be in good standing with the community again some day. I don't know how that will all happen, but I think we can start by changing our disposition towards Jaevyn and Cathalan - offering up constructive feedback and taking a more positive stance on the mod - at least for anyone who hasn't already started doing that. For this, I think you are on the right track @LDR

@Basil Bonehead I recall your stream testing 90SK's Edge of Darkness was pretty fair and helpful, I'd recommend reviewing Cathalan with that same positive lens.

[Basil Bonehead 99]

 

On 9/17/2022 at 2:47 PM, VarsityPuppet said:

For my participation in Cathalan, it started from me complaining about the NPCs having an orange tint to them - and it's a criticism I just kept repeating and mocking him for over the years, particularly in one thread here where I publicly aired some drama (that I ultimately instigated) and posted a review video of Cathalan for the sole purpose of mocking him.

It's something I deeply regret. I'm still not 100% sure of what my motives were back then, but I know that I had the wrong attitude toward him and his mod.

I agree with what LDR has said, it was a great idea and had the potential to be something great and special, and I'd love to see Cathalan get an update and for Jaevyn to be in good standing with the community again some day. I don't know how that will all happen, but I think we can start by changing our disposition towards Jaevyn and Cathalan - offering up constructive feedback and taking a more positive stance on the mod - at least for anyone who hasn't already started doing that. For this, I think you are on the right track @LDR

@Basil Bonehead I recall your stream testing 90SK's Edge of Darkness was pretty fair and helpful, I'd recommend reviewing Cathalan with that same positive lens.

That is how I plan on tackling Cathalan. I want to be critical, fair and take a civil, leveled-headed approach. I don't do snark, maybe a joke here and there but nothing that would be an attack on someone. My mentality when covering mods that get my interest is "I Critique because I Care" if I didn't I wouldn't say anything. I like seeing great ideas and want to see those ideas improve and sometimes it will spark my imagination for endless possibilities. It's how I go about things with my teammates on Galactic Legacy (Jedi Academy mod in case anyone asks), I propose ideas that would seem interesting and it's talked out. It's fun for me to talk out ideas with people and help with making a good idea better. What I can remember from playing Cathalan years ago is that there is a good foundation but needs refinement. Obviously I'll be going into depth whenever I replay the mod and work on the video.

In terms of what you did in the past, I can put it like this: I'm glad you've changed in terms of your outlook on the situation, I guess at the time you weren't the most mature person (or to put it bluntly: young and stupid) at the time and wanted to push buttons and in retrospect it wasn't the smartest move you made. We all are like that at one point or another (to different degrees) and we, like all humans, change over time and learn from their mistakes.

[jc2 581]

Time to expose myself, I played the orange mod.

Had a blast. It was fun.

If you play the mod like a parody of kotor, it feels rather satisfying. There is a bunch of hilariously strange dialogue. There were a few characters, that just made me laugh. It was like if a kid had written dialogue of what he imagined adult conversation/conflict would be like. There were strange objects outside, the sky was orange. Part of modding is taking creative license to recreate a part of your perspective of the game into the game, whether that answers a what if all this? Or a why didn't it have this? These questions and their answers, the mods themselves, are rather interesting to explore. When I played Cathalan, the orange shade was like the modder's orange pair of sunglasses for viewing kotor. 

There is not another mod like Cathalan, for dozens of reasons, but in terms of originality nothing quite like it. 

I had a good laugh, not as a mocker, but as someone who finds a ball, throws it against a wall causing the ball to bounce back at me and knock me down. It was surprising, unexpected, and overall different than other mods, especially of it's size and nature.

I wouldn't recommend the mod to people who want an authentic kotor experience, but if you can get past the hubris of the modding "elitism," and you have a sense of humor for random things on the internet, even if they are a far cry from their point of origin, then you might just find Cathalan to be quite entertaining. All this to say, there are very good reasons why most people do not recommend this mod. Despite the many years from its creation, its infamy lives on.

The wax-philosophical question is.....

What tint are your sunglasses?

 

 

 

*Note* The term modding "elitism" is not intended to criticize or advocate censorship of modders' criticism/critiques/comments or other (within reason) rationality. Nor does it disregard the valid critiques and claims brought against the mod and its author. The sole purpose of this term is to recognize bias and the arrogance behind that bias that may or may not have been previously or continually held. Used within this context, though there may be "elitism," take care to not let that bias be the sole factor of judgement.  

[Basil Bonehead 99]

New Mod Analysis video after all these years. I tried changing the formula so I hope to improve on it as I make the next one.

[darthbdaman 71]

I really enjoyed that. I think your videos are better when you are doing voice commentary.

Even simple hack and slash mods like this are really quite impressive considering the tools that they were made with. Anyone who tried to do module editing with KotOR tool will know what I mean. Hopefully we will get more new content mods now that we have really excellent tools like Holocron Toolset. The lack of them has always been one of the more unfortunate parts of KotOR modding.

One of the projects I've done a bit of work on is a mini TC that would act as a module starter hub for other mods, so people could make modules like they do for Neverwinter Nights or Dragon Age. I think little TC mods like this would benefit from having something like that as a framework.

[Basil Bonehead 99]

streaming Cathalan

also yes I'm using the image from @Sith Holocron's Cathalan gif because it's funny

[Basil Bonehead 99]

Making a video on this is going to be interesting. This mod was a mess to play through as you saw on the stream with me getting occasionally frustrated and tired as it went on (that and it was getting late in the day lol). It will be hard to write what coherently happens in it. With the info provided by you folks on this forum as well as other areas it should help out since most of the information and altercations from that time period has been lost to time. Hoping to get more info from people as soon as possible.