Bastila Shan should have been a Jedi Knight

[Salk 374]

Hello!

 

As the topic title says, I find really odd that Bastila has been given the rank of Padawan in the game. She is considered the one that can change the tide of the war between the Sith and the Jedi through her Battle Meditation and can hardly be considered a novice.

 

Thoughts?

[Haveayap 127]

Hello!

 

As the topic title says, I find really odd that Bastila has been given the rank of Padawan in the game. She is considered the one that can change the tide of the war between the Sith and the Jedi through her Battle Meditation and can hardly be considered a novice.

 

Thoughts?

Probably the same reason why Jolee was still a padawan at the end of Exar Kuns uprising, The Jedi Council were busy dealing with more serious issues like the mandolorian wars, the jedi rebelling and the eventual return of the sith...

[DarthParametric 3,785]

Yeah I always found it galling. It was stupid. Didn't she lead the raid on Revan's flagship? That would be a job for a master ideally, but if not then at least a knight. Certainly not a padawan. And later on she says she wondered if the mission with the player was a test by the Council to see if she was ready to be made a master. You don't jump straight from padawan to master. I think it was probably changed at some point simply so that she didn't outrank the player.

[N-DReW25 1,337]

Yeah I always found it galling. It was stupid. Didn't she lead the raid on Revan's flagship? That would be a job for a master ideally, but if not then at least a knight. Certainly not a padawan. And later on she says she wondered if the mission with the player was a test by the Council to see if she was ready to be made a master. You don't jump straight from padawan to master. I think it was probably changed at some point simply so that she didn't outrank the player.

Well desperate times call for desperate measures and quite frankly a Jedi Knight strike force without battle meditation is just a dying light in the dark. Plus even though Bastila had developed a Power force power that does not grant her the rights to be a Jedi Knight or Master

[Malkior 476]

Well desperate times call for desperate measures and quite frankly a Jedi Knight strike force without battle meditation is just a dying light in the dark. Plus even though Bastila had developed a Power force power that does not grant her the rights to be a Jedi Knight or Master

I can see your point, but Jedi Knights are generally far more dependable, and to send up to five other people onto an incredibly dangerous situation with someone so untrained that they still need a Master at their side and trust them with those five lives sounds ridiculously unwise, no matter what super Force Power they have. (Not only that, but Battle Meditation is a defensive move that requires concentration of the user which would kind of hamper leading a task force to the objective, but that's another weird plothole)

 

However, this whole thing could only make sense if the Jedi simply couldn't hold the Knighting Ceremony in the time Revan was destroying the Republic, and Bastila was stuck as a Padawan until the war ended.

[N-DReW25 1,337]

I can see your point, but Jedi Knights are generally far more dependable, and to send up to five other people onto an incredibly dangerous situation with someone so untrained that they still need a Master at their side and trust them with those five lives sounds ridiculously unwise, no matter what super Force Power they have. (Not only that, but Battle Meditation is a defensive move that requires concentration of the user which would kind of hamper leading a task force to the objective, but that's another weird plothole)

I can see your point there as well though there are things similar to that in the new canon for example some padawans were trusted to lead the clone armies during the clone wars. Some Padawans were sent on dangerous assignments with their masters to deal with sometimes sith lords (Now Bastila could of been with her master at revans death and he/she was killed in the cutscene were Revan died)

[JCarter426 1,215]

The problem is they didn't use Jedi Knight as a rank at all. The only ranks mentioned in the game are apprentice, padawan, and master. The player goes from apprentice to padawan; Bastila is explicitly called a padawan and she speculates the Council is testing her to see if she's ready to be a master, so presumably that's the next step for her - no knights.

 

The first thing wrong with this is that apprentice and padawan are not distinct ranks in other works. When Obi-Wan is Qui-Gon's apprentice, he is also a padawan. Tales of the Jedi predates the term "padawan", but has Arca's apprentices transition immediately to knighthood. Also, in a modern guild system, apprenticeship is only attained upon completing the first level of education; so if one were to make a distinction, I'd say padawan would be the lowest rank, with an apprentice specifically being a padawan that has a master.

 

The second problem is that apparently you go right from padawan to master. While in some situations this is true (Obi-Wan again), there's clearly meant to be the intervening rank of knight because there are knights that are not masters, but also no longer have masters (e.g. Anakin in Revenge of the Sith, Luke in Return of the Jedi).

 

Essentially, they used padawan in place of knight. Perhaps it was to avoid the confusion of how Jedi as a whole are called "Jedi Knights" regardless of their rank.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

The second problem is that apparently you go right from padawan to master. While in some situations this is true (Obi-Wan again)

Obi-Wan was made a knight at the end of The Phantom Menace.

 

Yoda: Confer on you the level of Jedi Knight, the Council does. But agree with your taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not.

 

I don't believe Bioware intended for there not to be a knight rank. I'm sure they would recognise how stupid it would be for everyone to jump straight to being a master.

[N-DReW25 1,337]

I Do believe there were Jedi Knigths in Kotor and TSL though they wern't mentioned for example in TSL during the Battle of Onderon Vaklu Soldiers keep saying things like " We need reinforcements a Jedi Knight has assaulted our flank" and stuff like that.

 

Also I do believe Juhani was a Jedi Knight as well though I could be mistaken

[Sithspecter 909]

The only ranks mentioned in the game are apprentice, padawan, and master.

 

False. The title of the game is literally Knights of the Old Republic.

[JCarter426 1,215]

Obi-Wan was made a knight at the end of The Phantom Menace.

 

Yoda: Confer on you the level of Jedi Knight, the Council does. But agree with your taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not.

Well, I suppose technically he was a knight for the duration of one conversation. Then he became a master. But that's beside the point.

 

 

I don't believe Bioware intended for there not to be a knight rank. I'm sure they would recognise how stupid it would be for everyone to jump straight to being a master.

 

I don't know how else to explain it. Every Jedi character that appears in the game is called either a padawan or a master. Bastila is a padawan in training to become a master. Apprentices are bestowed the rank of padawan upon completing trials, which is exactly how knighting works in other stories.

 

 

Also I do believe Juhani was a Jedi Knight as well though I could be mistaken

 

No, she was still a padawan too. She still had a master and was in training.

 

 

False. The title of the game is literally Knights of the Old Republic.

 

That's the collective term again. I'm talking about knight as a distinct rank between padawan and master. For example, "A small squadron of Jedi Knights in snub fighters could penetrate the Sith blockade and dock on the space station." Vandar isn't talking about Jedi with the rank of knight, specifically. Surely some of them are masters. Some of them may be padawans. But they're all "Jedi Knights".

 

The only named characters ever called knights in the game are actually Revan and Malak, but I don't see any clear mention of that as their specific either - just that Revan was a "charismatic knight" and so on.

 

The word only shows up 44 times in the TLK, and a lot of those instances are due to the game's title or item names.

[Haveayap 127]

You could also argue that they did not see bastila fit to go from padawan to knight as she was proud, arrogant and head strong at times. Its more than likely that she had assumed that she was a jedi knight due to her importance in the war and she craved to become a master. your ranking doesnt depend on how strong you are alone. For example Anakin was stronger than most of the jedi council but they did not grant him the rank of master due to the way he acted.

 

Im pretty sure they had knight ranking in kotor as jolee said himself that they offered him to become a knight, and he refused. You also tell several people on dantooine that you are a padawan, not a jedi knight... And I am pretty sure that Juhani becomes a jedi knight when she returns from the grove due to that being her last trial as a padawan... i think thats more than feasible