Impressions of M4-78 EP (Version 1.2 only)

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

So, once people got it downloaded (slow ) and working, and they're on their way to M4-78 - let's hear it what you think of it.

And instead of having such threads all over the board, how about centering it... here. Nice and tidy!

 

I sound like IS-43.

 

Edit from Sith Holocron:

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Impressions should be for the current version. (That's version 1.2.)

[flighty0 0]

I just played through the m4-78 planet mod after not having played KotOR 2 for 2 years. The main thing I found negative about M4-78 was the fact that, rather than a restored planet, it felt like a fan made planet mod. Now this might just seem ridiculous because a lot of the content was fan made, but I'll explain myself.

 

For this mod to be good, it needs to feel integrated into the game, and here are some reasons why it doesn't seem like it's good enough to be in the game.

 

First off, the intro and outro cutscenes (for arriving and leaving the planet) are in 16:9. Why is this? All the other prerendered .bik/s are in 21:9 (or something similiar). I don't see why you would want to use a different aspect ratio, it makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and doesn't seem to fit in, I think they should be rendered out in 1280x540 (black bars not squished in). I can do this if no one else can be bothered. Secondly the poor voice acting. While I appreciate the effort people went into voicing these characters, it just wasn't up to par with the rest of the characters' voice acting from the actual game. And the thing that annoyed me the MOST, with the voice acting, is that the effect added to the voice overs for the protocol droids (and other droids) is COMPLETELY different from the rest of the protocol droids from the actual game. They sound like SWtoR droids. I think that the voices should be sent in an unedited .wav, sent to one person who can apply the effect and make it as similar as possible by studying existing protocol droids voice effect in the actual official game. I also think that the voice actors should study the original voice overs as well, to get an understanding of how they should talk. e.g protocol droid actors listen to B4-D4 and other notable protocol droids, to learn how they sound and how to pronounce words and sentences etc. The last thing about this mod, is the LAG. I watched xuul's video on experimenting with lag and I think that we can confirm that the game kills itself when there are too many models present. Therefore the team could try and remove unnecessary NPCs and models. Like for example all the NPCs that don't have dialogue options but just say something when you interact with them. And when there are many cylinders present but you can only loot a couple etc.

 

That is my feedback for the team, I applaud them for putting in the effort to bring this planet to light, but this mod is far from polished. And there's no point in stopping now, they've come so far. I would love to see this mod polished up so anyone who hadn't played the game before wouldn't notice that it was even a mod. In it's current state, many things stick out from this mod that make it hard to see as integrated, and up to par with the rest of the game. I hope the team see this feedback just so they cant get an idea of what needs to be polished up. Thank you to everyone who took part in bringing this mod to light, there's just another mile to go .

[Cloned Revan 1]

Hey friends,  where is the link to download the M4-78  1.2?  Is something went wrong with this mod?

 

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

 

Hey friends,  where is the link to download the M4-78  1.2? 

 

 

You couldn't find it in the Download section? I did - but I've added the link to my initial post just because I'm that nice of a guy.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

flighty0: Thanks for the feedback, but nothing of that is getting changed.

 

Getting the VO up to par is impossible to do for free, so unless someone's willing to pump a lot of money into that, this has to suffice. The area would be extremely barren without any assistance droids, we've already lessened it severly from original, even less and the place just feels bare; which IMO is even worse.

[Iamsyber 0]

Hi, just registered and would like to let you guys know that I played for the first time with the restored content and with M4-78. I had played once Kotor 2 before about 2 or 3 years ago.

 

I found it incredible, have no problems with the voice acting whatsoever. Felt completely immersed. My only observation is that it requires a lot of back and forth (especially with our slow-ass droids right at the beginning), but later we have the escort so it's not that bad. Finding the right droid to talk with in the quests was somewhat difficult too without help from the internet due to some places not being marked in the map.

 

Overall I loved it, thanks everyone for the great job.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Adding markers is easy... what places did you feel were lacking?

[zbyl2 811]

Hi, just registered and would like to let you guys know that I played for the first time with the restored content and with M4-78. I had played once Kotor 2 before about 2 or 3 years ago.

 

I found it incredible, have no problems with the voice acting whatsoever. Felt completely immersed. My only observation is that it requires a lot of back and forth (especially with our slow-ass droids right at the beggining), but later we have the escort so it's not that bad. Finding the right droid to talk with in the quests was somewhat difficult too without help from the internet due to some places not being marked in the map.

 

Overall I loved it, thanks everyone for the great job.

 

Thank you!

[Kexikus 995]

So, yesterday I finished M4-78 for the very first time. And I really really enjoyed it. But just like in any other project/mod, there were things that could be improved in my opinion. I know that not everything I'm going to suggest is possible in a manageable amount of time, but I'm still going to leave my opinion here just in case Also, the following might sound like I didn't like the mod. That's not true, I liked it, but it's just way easier to write about things I don't like^^

 

Anyway, here's what I'd change:

 

The most obvious thing I'd fix is probably the voice-overs. They sadly range from amazing to horrible :/ And with them I'd also change the writing, as there were some things that sounded kinda wrong. That was pretty rare though.

 

Gameplay-wise if you want to call it that, I'd only change some journal entries so that they help finding the droid you're looking for. They were always saying something like "Go to IS-O2", but I had a hard time remembering who IS-O2 and the other droids were. So, something like "Go to IS-O2 in the whatever-section" might be better. Also, I think the journal entries in vanilla always say "You should do..." and some of those in M4-78 were worded differently "Do...!". That could be fixed too.

 

But I think the biggest issue I had was with the level design. Some sections (the behavior cores, the end of the industrial section, the landing arm) were great but others just felt lifeless. They did not look like something that someone would ever build, but were just corridors created for a game. Add stuff like droid production with melting areas, conveyor belts etc. You could actually see the droids being built. Or add empty barracks for the colonists. Or stuff like holotrees and some kind of futuristic air cleaning in the environmental zone. Just something to make the area look like an actual colony and not just like random buildings.

 

And the last minor thing is that I'd add map markers for the escort droids.

 

That's it. As I said, these are just ideas to make a great mod even better

[djnugent 34]

I played through twice - once as DS, once as LS.

 

Nicely done with the different LS/DS story arcs - fit pretty well with the overall TSL theme.

 

Of course, we wouldn't be proper nerds if we weren't ready to point out the minor, less-than inconvenient things we would like to see ironed-out... 

 

 

1. I agree on a couple of notes with Kexikus - the journal entries could be a little more informative, only when trying to find droids, or why we're trying to find the droids.

 

2. Some of the "shadows" being cast by some of the Droids (most prominent in the main area) - they are SUPER long, thin shadows, but only on 1 or 2 of the droids

          - DOESN'T subtract from gameplay, DOESN'T cause any problems, just something I noticed when trying to solve that "power puzzle" issue...

 

3. I actually didn't have a problem with how "lifeless" the place looked - I figured if droids had been running the show for that long, all organic/aesthetic stuff would be removed/replaced for something more efficient. Still, more stuff going on in the background is always cool - some animated manufacturing textures would look great.

 

4. A WARP PANEL - Like on Telos Station, where you can travel from area to area without always having to go through 3 areas. Let's be honest - it's a pretty big map

 

 

5. And finally... the VO's. Sometimes (I'M SORRY GUYS, NO KNOCK ON YOUR EFFORTS!!!!) a little cringe-worthy, and ,in all honesty, it is the only thing that makes me think twice before reinstalling the M4-78EP mod (even though I always end up installing it anyway cuz THAT'S how awesome this mod is).

 

Now - I didn't create the MOD, didn't participate in any of the process, and am saying these things as only a Super-Nerd would even notice them - however, I figure if you aren't willing to help, then get out, so I'm volunteering myself as a possible VO candidate. (except for the patrol droids - they sounded like bad-asses!). 

 

Also - NONE OF THESE (we'll call them "observations") DO ANYTHING TO DETRACT FROM THE OVERALL QUALITY AND COMPLETION THE MODDERS BROUGHT TO THIS SUPER COOL MOD.

 

 

[Kexikus 995]

 

3. I actually didn't have a problem with how "lifeless" the place looked - I figured if droids had been running the show for that long, all organic/aesthetic stuff would be removed/replaced for something more efficient. Still, more stuff going on in the background is always cool - some animated manufacturing textures would look great.

 

4. A WARP PANEL - Like on Telos Station, where you can travel from area to area without always having to go through 3 areas. Let's be honest - it's a pretty big map

 

 

Lifeless is probably not the best word. I was just referring to the fact that the areas didn't look like they have any purpose. And that seems quite unlikely for a colony run by droids.

 

And those Warp Panels exist. That's exactly what the Escort Droids are doing

[djnugent 34]

Lifeless is probably not the best word. I was just referring to the fact that the areas didn't look like they have any purpose. And that seems quite unlikely for a colony run by droids.

 

And those Warp Panels exist. That's exactly what the Escort Droids are doing

 

Yes...I was reminded about the Escort Droids... and properly Face-Palmed myself immediately afterward... 

        *** I played through the first time as DS...and didn't even realize the escort droids were there until I had finished and was heading back to the Ebon Hawk. Double Face Palm!!! ***

 

 

Yes Lifeless was probably the wrong word to use - on the other hand, I was trying to think - what would a place look like if it was built by settlers, then all the settlers died, then droids adapted everything created for organics to their needs? Also, weren't they supposed to be preparing for the next batch of settlers? So (in theory), there could be facilities and/or stores of organic compounds just sitting in storage somewhere. 

 

Of course... .... .... I have no "real" ideas as to what that would look like. I'm going to be playing it through my 3rd time through, so my memory should be a little fresher

[zbyl2 811]

Lifeless is probably not the best word. I was just referring to the fact that the areas didn't look like they have any purpose. And that seems quite unlikely for a colony run by droids.

 

There's some true to that. I agree that "lifeless" isn't the best word since it's intended to be, but I know what you meant.

 

Central Zone doesn't really serve much purpose to the droids, but I always figured that's just what links the rest of the colony with landing arms, hence the information units. And the Main Core, obviously, so I suppose there's some big computer right under it.

 

I don't think we ever really figured out what each section of the Environmental Zone would do at all, though. I tried to explain some things if you walk through it after meeting ES-05, but that's just mostly random NPCs I was coming up with as I went along, just to have something in each section.

 

Second half of the Industrial Zone was probably the best that way since we (or at least JC, who came up with most of the second half's main quest) actually figured out what each room's purpose could be before designing its quests.

[Kexikus 995]

There's some true to that. I agree that "lifeless" isn't the best word since it's intended to be, but I know what you meant.

 

Central Zone doesn't really serve much purpose to the droids, but I always figured that's just what links the rest of the colony with landing arms, hence the information units. And the Main Core, obviously, so I suppose there's some big computer right under it.

 

I don't think we ever really figured out what each section of the Environmental Zone would do at all, though. I tried to explain some things if you walk through it after meeting ES-05, but that's just mostly random NPCs I was coming up with as I went along, just to have something in each section.

 

Second half of the Industrial Zone was probably the best that way since we (or at least JC, who came up with most of the second half's main quest) actually figured out what each room's purpose could be before designing its quests.

 

Yeah, the central zone is probably of no use to the droids. But considering that the colonists are not gone for that long, maybe there could still be some kind of advertisement screens or some sales booths.

 

You did a great job with explaining the Environmental Zone in the second pass but it'd just be great to actually see some of that stuff. Not that I have any specific ideas on how to do that^^

 

I think ideally, you'd get a feeling similar to Peragus only less creepy due to the non-hostility of the droids and in an area that's actually meant for people to live there. So, basically the industrial and adjacent part of a city where all inhabitants have suddenly died/vanished.

But that'd require a giant amount of work I imagine for a change that's not that important in the end^^

[Malkior 476]

Yeah, the central zone is probably of no use to the droids. But considering that the colonists are not gone for that long, maybe there could still be some kind of advertisement screens or some sales booths.

 

You did a great job with explaining the Environmental Zone in the second pass but it'd just be great to actually see some of that stuff. Not that I have any specific ideas on how to do that^^

 

I think ideally, you'd get a feeling similar to Peragus only less creepy due to the non-hostility of the droids and in an area that's actually meant for people to live there. So, basically the industrial and adjacent part of a city where all inhabitants have suddenly died/vanished.

But that'd require a giant amount of work I imagine for a change that's not that important in the end^^

Considering the colonists

were The Sith in disguise

I imagine the base would reflect their specific taste and have the look of a military base

possibly with Sith writings or meditation chambers, since this was basically hidden from the rest of the galaxy, and there would be no need for hiding their true selves

perhaps even with a well stocked armory..

 

It's ironic you mention how M478 was so similar to Peragus, when according to Wookiepedia, that's one of the reasons it was cut. (Though, in retrospect, Goto's yacht was also fully manned by robots, so I guess Obsidian prefers droids to organic meat sacks)

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Considering the colonists

were The Sith in disguise

 

I thought that

the Sith weren't the actual intended colonists, that those were lost, and the Sith took over when they came across the planet?

Or at least that was an implied possibility.

 

 

 

 I guess Obsidian prefers droids to organic meat sacks

 

Correction: Meatbags, the term is meatbags.

[Malkior 476]

 

Correction: Meatbags, the term is meatbags.

Quick clarification: "I believe that term is the sole property of a certain assassin droid, and considering his displeasure at replication of his function or mannerisms, I felt it best to use an alternative." :|

[Antonia 5]

Quick clarification: "I believe that term is the sole property of a certain assassin droid, and considering his displeasure at replication of his function or mannerisms, I felt it best to use an alternative." :|

Actually, I suspect HK would be pleased with himself beyond measure, were the rest of the galaxy to fully adapt and incorporate 'meatbags' into their common vernacular. xD

 

-Kitt

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Quick clarification: "I believe that term is the sole property of a certain assassin droid, and considering his displeasure at replication of his function or mannerisms, I felt it best to use an alternative." :|

 

Quote: "And, of course, they refer to meatbags as 'organics.' Unacceptable."

 

Conclusion: Said assassin droid takes much more displeasure at the butchering of his phrases.

[Kexikus 995]

Considering the colonists

were The Sith in disguise

I imagine the base would reflect their specific taste and have the look of a military base

possibly with Sith writings or meditation chambers, since this was basically hidden from the rest of the galaxy, and there would be no need for hiding their true selves

perhaps even with a well stocked armory..

 

Yeah, I thought about that too. It probably shouldn't look like it was made for them but like they built on the foundation the droids built prior to their arrival. But yeah, there is potential in that

[zbyl2 811]

Yeah, the central zone is probably of no use to the droids. But considering that the colonists are not gone for that long, maybe there could still be some kind of advertisement screens or some sales booths.

 

From droid's perspective the whole purpose of the Central Zone is to house the main droid intelligence, the M4-78. He probably requires a lot of power to run, so I imagine there's a powerful electric grid under the whole Central Zone.

 

As far as the colonists are concerned, Central Zone should basically link landing pads with the rest of the colony. That's why there are information droids there.

 

I wouldn't put advertisement booths or anything else like that because I don't want it to feel like a place for people to live. I wanted a strange, droid only look. Also, the planet's main purpose, as far as the Sith are concerned, was the production of the droid army. So they basically treat the colony as one giant factory.

 

They probably have a living section somewhere, and you can probably take a train there from the Central Zone. But they wouldn't live in the Industrial Zone which is construction-only section, and ES-05 says they never cared for the Environmental Zone.

 

 

Considering the colonists

were The Sith in disguise

I imagine the base would reflect their specific taste and have the look of a military base

possibly with Sith writings or meditation chambers, since this was basically hidden from the rest of the galaxy, and there would be no need for hiding their true selves

perhaps even with a well stocked armory..

Doesn't it feel like a factory overtaken by the Sith, though? Building the droid army, coming up with weird combat droid upgrades, having guard turrets everywhere?

 

By the way I don't know how many people actually noticed that, but it's implied there were more many turrets in the Industrial Zone before the first accident with Kaah. They removed them after I1-01 was destroyed by one.

 

 

I thought that the Sith weren't the actual intended colonists, that those were lost, and the Sith took over when they came across the planet? Or at least that was an implied possibility.

That is true. Who the real colonists were was never explained. There were some subtle hints.

 

But seeing how they've been there for few years now, they would have had time to change things more to their liking.

[Kexikus 995]

From droid's perspective the whole purpose of the Central Zone is to house the main droid intelligence, the M4-78. He probably requires a lot of power to run, so I imagine there's a powerful electric grid under the whole Central Zone.

 

As far as the colonists are concerned, Central Zone should basically link landing pads with the rest of the colony. That's why there are information droids there.

 

I wouldn't put advertisement booths or anything else like that because I don't want it to feel like a place for people to live. I wanted a strange, droid only look. Also, the planet's main purpose, as far as the Sith are concerned, was the production of the droid army. So they basically treat the colony as one giant factory.

 

They probably have a living section somewhere, and you can probably take a train there from the Central Zone. But they wouldn't live in the Industrial Zone which is construction-only section, and ES-05 says they never cared for the Environmental Zone.

 

You certainly have a point there and I have to agree now. They wouldn't live there anyway, so things that you'd see in the center of a typical city shouldn't be there. And the Central Zone certainly works as a connecting zone as it is

 

So you're right. The places the player visits on M4-78 are places that were rarely visited by the colonists (probably only to check that the droids do what they're supposed to do) and thus were run by droids anyway. With that in mind, there really shouldn't be the things you'd expect in places where people live.

And that leaves stuff like the things seen in the Geonosis droid factory for the Industrial Zone and some kind of air cleaning etc for the Environmental Zone. The latter could still have some kind of decoration that the droids put there for the colonists and that the Sith simply never cared about. I don't know if that's fitting but I always imagine the Environmental Zone as a mix of recreation area and environmental control and all of that in a futuristic design. That's probably not what you intended but I can't help imagining that^^

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

No one listens to what M4-78 has to say. :: sigh ::

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

No one listens to what M4-78 has to say. :: sigh ::

 

Been too long since I played that part, so I don't remember what he said.

 

That said, next time I'm doing some KOTOR2, I should be getting there...

[Quantumpencil 0]

My impressions:

 

First of all, great job everyone. The mod plays very smoothly and though not perfect, felt like a nice fresh KotoR-esque experience.  I think the overall plot of the planet is pretty interesting, many of the voice actors are good (like... astonishingly good. The environmental Droid(ES-05?), the trash droid, and Kaah are just really great -- I also liked M4-78's voice a lot, even though I would've gone for a HAL type thing instead) and there are some memorable characters.

 

I think the two biggest problems with the planet are pacing and very uneven VO quality.

 

The latter is the biggest issue. There are some droid VO's that are so terrible, they completely break immersion. I am mostly thinking about that first protocol droid you encounter, CS-36, whose voice acting was so bad I nearly uninstalled right afterwards. I'm glad I didn't, though -- as it definitely gets better from there. I am not sure if the project leads plan to do any more changes to the VO's, but just bringing up the bottom end of the VO's to the level of the rest of the planet would be a huge boost to the M4-78 Experience. You don't need them to be "studio quality" -- just not immersion breaking.  There's also a lot to be done with audio engineering assuming original unfiltered voice acting exists. Ideally you want to do a spectral analysis of the existing droid clips from the game and try to mimic that filter as best as possible. You can use the same raw VA clips & do some engineering magic to approximate the timbre of the in game droids a bit better. I'm happy to help with this -- I have some studio recording equipment and friends who are very skilled VA's/Audio Engineers I'd be willing to pay,  if there is any interest. 

For the former -- The beginning of the planet is SUPER boring. Combined with the really bad VO's which are overly concentrated in the earlier part of the planet, I fear a lot of people get a very negative view of M4-78 and don't stick it through to the good parts. That's a shame because the second part of the planet is a lot of fun. The beginning feels kind of disconnected from the main story (Vash's investigation/M4-78's role) and there's too much running around and fetching crap. I don't think this is nearly as big a deal as the VO problem, though. It kinda feels kind the first part of Manaan from KotoR1 -- you have to suffer through it to get to the interesting part of the planet. Good job on the overall complexity of the quests though, and on the overarching plot.