Why "The Old Republic" wasn't very good, in my opinion.

[TheDarkChocolateJedi 17]

This is merely my opinion on SWTOR and my opinion alone, however i do not believe I am the only one who thinks this. SWTOR wasn't very good for a few reasons, one of which is the crappy WoW engine, they used the WoW engine for SWTOR which makes it already far too much like WoW not to mention the ability bar looks exactly like WoW's. Also the fact that you must pay for portions of the game is absolute bull crap and you should just be able to pay your 30 or 40 dollars and get what you paid for. I understand it is free to play now but that just makes it worse, because now that it is free to play you get even less features to begin with which makes it no different if it was free to play or if it costed money to buy the base game. And the maturity of the game is... a but off putting because it is basically mass effect Star Wars and mass effect was an adult game, now I am not complaining about the darkness and maturity but I am just saying Star Wars needs to appeal to all ages like the original KOTOR games did.

 

I would also like to point out that most of the storylines for all the classes are basically the same, it's either you are on a secret mission or you are the chosen one or you were redEemed from being a bad guy. It's all the same but the original KOTOR S could be played multiple times and still not get old, just playing one class on SWTOR gets old fast and the MMO component is crap there is almost no interaction with other players so it is almost like you are playing a (Very terrible single player game). Also this game replaced what kotor3 could have been, obsidian was pitching kotor3 ideas left and right, and right as they were about to pitch something amazing to LucasArts BioWare came in and pitched an MMO and lucasarts wanted to try something new.

 

And you know how Revan was supposedly in love with Meetra Surik in SWTOR? That couldn't be possible unless Revan was a player of some sort, because Meetra Surik was already in love with Atton/Mical and revan was already married and already had children with Bastila so why and HOW could he be in love with Meetra like how? *Sigh* There are a long list of reasons why I dislike SWTOR but the main one? Is the crappy grinding mechanic, you literally must sit on your computer and click the mouse for hours on end if you want to get to a decent level and stand a chance against all the other enemies and players I would like to hear everyone else's opinion on this, and I hope some others agree with me. Thank you for reading.

[milestails 264]

"And you know how revan was supposedly in love with Meetra Surik in swtor?"

 

This is news to me. Quite shocking if true.

 

I played TOR once for like five minutes. Didn't know what to do. Uninstallled.

 

It was much like my first time playing KotOR except I picked that back up years later and I was hooked. Maybe I will play TOR again in a few years long after its popularity has diminished and be enthralled.

 

Here's what I do like about TOR:

• Cinematic trailers
• Satele Shan
• Darth Malgus
• Armored robes
• All the mods for KotOR/TSL

[TheDarkChocolateJedi 17]

miles tails? You retired from playing TSL and kotor? How is that possible? And yes I agree milestails.

[milestails 264]

I'll send you a PM.

[LDR 234]

I played TOR for about 6 months right after it came out and honestly I really enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun with it, but after a while I got sick of it because I was doing the same thing over and over again. I got bored, but I had a lot of fun with it while it lasted. I might pick it up again, but considering it's free-to-play now I don't particularly like the idea of  paying for features that I originally had.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Played it for awhile, but decided to play better games instead.

[Malkior 472]

Let's just say that I've been pondering the question of how something as ambitious and frankly well thought out of a concept of TOR went so wrong.

 

So far I have at least a brief idea of at least some contributing reasons for its rather mediocre reception.

 

First, the combat is too simplistic compared to Kotor or TSL: That's right, the three choices of feats are still more strategically forward than to choosing your favorite ranged or force power/spell and spamming it. In the original Kotor games if even tells you the benefit and potential detriment of using one type of attack all of the time (you lose a certain stat for a certain number of combat turns), so some enemies are better to hit with one, but "spamming" it is not advised. This keeps the combat in Kotor and TSL from feeling stale. Unfortunately, TOR, perhaps to seem similar to WOW was given its rudimentary combat system that basically requires you to use the same three attacks on every enemy until their health reaches zero. So it's not too surprising that the combat gets extremely repetitive after hours of that same formula.

 

 

Next, the story in Kotor is for the most part, linear, but there is little to no backtracking: In TOR, however, backtracking is a constant thorn in everyone's side. (Or at least mine) Even from the first planet, you end up going to the stupid Twilek village at least 3 consecutive times for the MAIN STORY!!! There is nothing more tedious or spirit-breaking for a player than to travel through the same locale in search of a different thing in roughly the same place that they had already beaten everything nearby, and no number of stronger or pallete swapped enemies will change that.

 

 

So they've removed the thrill of tactical-ish combat, and have also gotten rid of the illusion of progession, so what else do they remove next? The rich player base that makes games like WOW actually survive.

 

This was possibly done through two separate, but not entirely exclusive acts.

 

The first was the alienation of the players by means of using a high level graphic requirement to run it. I know most people who were really serious about playing it were buying new PCs just to run it, but games like WOW are specifically played by everyone I know because of the ridiculously low graphic requirements.

 

Secondly, they all but penalize you for playing the free version (last I checked, free players can't use voice chat, what?! Seriously?) And shower you with prizes for paying money to play it. From a Pavlovian side, this seems fine, except as a free player, you're treated even worse as a direct result, and the lack of chat removes even more opportunities for spontaneous communities to form, so those playing are very very limited in number.

 

 

Now, I know that we put up with all kinds of things if we truly enjoy a game, and I'm sure some still quite like TOR, but the constant steps backward made an otherwise brilliant game concept a widely panned game.

 

As an aside, Kotor and TSL had all of the same "adult" content in them as well, perhaps less obviously, but they were rated T for a reason. (Cite: selling people into slavery for the Hutts is more than just manual labor :/ ) Also, see the "relaxation" slaves in Davik's guest quarters...

[Rece 63]

Let's just say that I've been pondering the question of how something as ambitious and frankly well thought out of a concept of TOR went so wrong.

 

So far I have at least a brief idea of at least some contributing reasons for its rather mediocre reception.

 

First, the combat is too simplistic compared to Kotor or TSL: That's right, the three choices of feats are still more strategically forward than to choosing your favorite ranged or force power/spell and spamming it. In the original Kotor games if even tells you the benefit and potential detriment of using one type of attack all of the time (you lose a certain stat for a certain number of combat turns), so some enemies are better to hit with one, but "spamming" it is not advised. This keeps the combat in Kotor and TSL from feeling stale. Unfortunately, TOR, perhaps to seem similar to WOW was given its rudimentary combat system that basically requires you to use the same three attacks on every enemy until their health reaches zero. So it's not too surprising that the combat gets extremely repetitive after hours of that same formula.

 

 

Next, the story in Kotor is for the most part, linear, but there is little to no backtracking: In TOR, however, backtracking is a constant thorn in everyone's side. (Or at least mine) Even from the first planet, you end up going to the stupid Twilek village at least 3 consecutive times for the MAIN STORY!!! There is nothing more tedious or spirit-breaking for a player than to travel through the same locale in search of a different thing in roughly the same place that they had already beaten everything nearby, and no number of stronger or pallete swapped enemies will change that.

 

 

So they've removed the thrill of tactical-ish combat, and have also gotten rid of the illusion of progession, so what else do they remove next? The rich player base that makes games like WOW actually survive.

 

This was possibly done through two separate, but not entirely exclusive acts.

 

The first was the alienation of the players by means of using a high level graphic requirement to run it. I know most people who were really serious about playing it were buying new PCs just to run it, but games like WOW are specifically played by everyone I know because of the ridiculously low graphic requirements.

 

Secondly, they all but penalize you for playing the free version (last I checked, free players can't use voice chat, what?! Seriously?) And shower you with prizes for paying money to play it. From a Pavlovian side, this seems fine, except as a free player, you're treated even worse as a direct result, and the lack of chat removes even more opportunities for spontaneous communities to form, so those playing are very very limited in number.

 

 

Now, I know that we put up with all kinds of things if we truly enjoy a game, and I'm sure some still quite like TOR, but the constant steps backward made an otherwise brilliant game concept a widely panned game.

 

As an aside, Kotor and TSL had all of the same "adult" content in them as well, perhaps less obviously, but they were rated T for a reason. (Cite: selling people into slavery for the Hutts is more than just manual labor :/ ) Also, see the "relaxation" slaves in Davik's guest quarters...

 

Don't forget Atton, Brianna, and Visas' inappropriate romance scenes haha. Like with Atton adjusting his "cargo ramp" as well as the Exiles lines too.

[Kaidon Jorn 186]

Been playing TOR since about a month and a half after it launched and still love it. Love my characters and the legacy I've built over the last 3 years.

Didn't have a clue what I was doing when I first started but I learned fairly quickly just from playing and also from other people and stuck with it, because the whole idea behind it is rather cool to me. What I get from it is probably entirely different than most. 

I realized then what I realized now about KotOR diehards and the Old Republic MMO - that will never change. I couldn't care less what anyone says, has said, or will say about it. I enjoy the hell out of it and that's all that matters.

I tried WoW again for a couple months because of a friend of mine was trying to get me into it. I can honestly say now I really don't care for that game, and don't see a whole lot of similarity between WoW and TOR, and most likely never will. 

 

Heh, I'm am probably the ONLY person on these forums in particular that likes TOR. Oh well, to each his own, amirite?

[Malkior 472]

Exactly. I never said that liking TOR is wrong. I was actually on the last Beta before launch, and enjoyed a majority of it a great deal. I've just come to accept that it had some pretty significant flaws.

 

If you like the game, then by all means, enjoy it. I have copies of Tachyon: The Fringe and Bounty Hunter that for all intents and purposes were either ignored or outright panned by players and critics, but that I think are some of the coolest games and concepts out there.

 

I was just listing why a game of Kotor's pedigree had such a terrible reception.

[DarthTyren 103]

Heh, I'm am probably the ONLY person on these forums in particular that likes TOR. Oh well, to each his own, amirite?

 

Don't make assumptions like that. I've played TOR since just after launch. Still love it. Some of the class stories could have been handled a lot better (why did it feel like such a chore to finish Act 1 on the Agent), but when that happens, I just reroll another character and say screw it. I might come back to it.

[elektrajinx 0]

I've been enjoying The Old Republic as well.  The main problem I come across are the passing guilds/groups.

I tend to play casually so the social factor can be a bit more difficult. 

[Sith Holocron 2,452]

Heh, I'm am probably the ONLY person on these forums in particular that likes TOR. Oh well, to each his own, amirite?

I'm a Collector's Edition owner and I have been subscribing since the beginning. 

[Xuul 224]

I've started playing SWTOR again recently. Although I havent quite formed a full option yet (ill post about that eventually). The ability to just play your classes main story for the summer is a big plus IMO. 

 

That being said it still feels very WoW-esq.

[Rahak 0]

snip

I hate to play devil's advocate, since i kinda hate Bioware, but

 

• SWTOR uses the Hero engine, not the WoW engine, not sure what you think engine means
• Resizeable horizontal and vertical toolbars of abilities isn't exactly a patented Blizzard invention
• MMOs require maintenance, customer service, and ongoing development, which isn't usually covered for their lifespan of years by initial box sales
• Unless you're talking about people talking dirty in General chat, it's no "Darker" or more "Mature" than the KOTOR games, maybe even less so
• I'm not convinced you actually played any storylines, since none of them are about you being redeemed or being the "Chosen one"
• There are group quests, 2-man heroics, 4-man flashpoints, 8-16 person warzones and operations, not to mention guilds, player crafting, and RP, how is it you avoided all player interaction?
• Yes, Bioware made a mockery of Revan and shat on Obsidian's characters
• I don't believe you know what grinding actually is

ultimately i think you dislike it because it's an MMO and not KOTOR 3

 

i'd rather have the KOTOR 3 as well

[TheDarkChocolateJedi 17]

First off, i do know what grinding is also it was a bit darker and more adultish because there were sex scenes (not visual but you could hear) and there were more sexual references than I could count, and no if you are playing the game free there is absolutely no other player interaction what so ever, also i do very well know what engine means. It uses a modified version of WoWs engine PERIOD. If you do some digging you will find you are wrong. Also as I said this is merely my opinion i did not mean to offend anyone who enjoyed the game.

[Vriff 21]

The amount of people who no next to nothing about TOR in this thread is amusing.

 

1. "WoW Engine" lmao. SWTOR uses a heavily modified proto-version of the HERO Engine, WoW uses a heavily modified version of the WarCraft engine. Not only are they not the same, they share absolutely zero code.

2. There is no voice chat in SWTOR, for free or subscribed players.

3. SWTOR combat at any higher level is incredibly more advanced than spamming flurry and force wave on KOTOR, you're making assumptions about the entire game at while your character is at a basic level with no advanced training.

4. The class stories are where the game really shines, most of these stories (along with the stories of your companions) are very well written, many easily eclipse the saturday morning cartoon good vs evil cookie cutter story of KOTOR 1.

5. SWTOR is unique in the MMO-field in that there is almost no grinding in the game whatsoever. You can get to max level by doing nothing but unique story quests.

6. There is never a reference to anything more than a strong platonic friendship and comradery between the Exile and Revan in SWTOR.

[TheDarkChocolateJedi 17]

The amount of people who no next to nothing about TOR in this thread is amusing.

 

1. "WoW Engine" lmao. SWTOR uses a heavily modified proto-version of the HERO Engine, WoW uses a heavily modified version of the WarCraft engine. Not only are they not the same, they share absolutely zero code.

2. There is no voice chat in SWTOR, for free or subscribed players.

3. SWTOR combat at any higher level is incredibly more advanced than spamming flurry and force wave on KOTOR, you're making assumptions about the entire game at while your character is at a basic level with no advanced training.

4. The class stories are where the game really shines, most of these stories (along with the stories of your companions) are very well written, many easily eclipse the saturday morning cartoon good vs evil cookie cutter story of KOTOR 1.

5. SWTOR is unique in the MMO-field in that there is almost no grinding in the game whatsoever. You can get to max level by doing nothing but unique story quests.

6. There is never a reference to anything more than a strong platonic friendship and comradery between the Exile and Revan in SWTOR.

. Then you know absolutely nothing about this game, there was some sort of romance if you actually played the return of revan or whatever you just have to make the correct decisions for it to happen, look it up on youtube my friend. Also I hate the plain good vs evil bland story, kotor2s grey and darker appearance is far better and obsidian should have made kotor3 rather then the piece of crap we have today called swtor. Again no offense to any of you who like the game, but I think the game is just a poor excuse to make money.

[Sith Holocron 2,452]

I agree with everything Vriff said except . . .

 

5. SWTOR is unique in the MMO-field in that there is almost no grinding in the game whatsoever.

This.

 

My admittedly minor quibble is that there is some grinding when doing reverse engineering and acquiring gifts for companions. It's an optional thing but I felt I had to add it.

[Vriff 21]

. Then you know absolutely nothing about this game, there was some sort of romance if you actually played the return of revan or whatever you just have to make the correct decisions for it to happen, look it up on youtube my friend. Also I hate the plain good vs evil bland story, kotor2s grey and darker appearance is far better and obsidian should have made kotor3 rather then the piece of crap we have today called swtor. Again no offense to any of you who like the game, but I think the game is just a poor excuse to make money.

Okay, so yeah. Whatever you say Chocochochochip man.

 

yeah, SH, that is a good point, I meant class stories and companion stories (the main draw of the game, afterall), so the gifting is a bit grindy.

[ADG12311990 21]

. Then you know absolutely nothing about this game, there was some sort of romance if you actually played the return of revan or whatever you just have to make the correct decisions for it to happen, look it up on youtube my friend. Also I hate the plain good vs evil bland story, kotor2s grey and darker appearance is far better and obsidian should have made kotor3 rather then the piece of crap we have today called swtor. Again no offense to any of you who like the game, but I think the game is just a poor excuse to make money.

 

If you mean when Revan says "That to him, the Exile was more" That can be interpreted as anything. You see it as a past romance, I see it as either close friendship, or even that they may have been brother and sister.

[Sith Holocron 2,452]

You did follow up the "no grinding" comment with this.
 

You can get to max level by doing nothing but unique story quests.

Hence my comment is really a quibble - especially with the 12XP boots to class stories (if you're a subscriber.)

[Rece 63]

I only played a slight amount of TOR and have seen some friends play it, so I can't make a complete opinion. But the only reason that I really hate it other than having subscriptions, is that it's not KOTOR 3, which I'm sure EVERYONE would absolutely want.

[ADG12311990 21]

I only played a slight amount of TOR and have seen some friends play it, so I can't make a complete opinion. But the only reason that I really hate it other than having subscriptions, is that it's not KOTOR 3, which I'm sure EVERYONE would absolutely want.

I agree, I would love for KotOR 3 to happen, (Although the chances of that are slim to none nowadays) but I've come to see the Jedi Knight story as an unofficial KotOR 3. And there are some good KotOR 3 mods out there... so I hear.

[Fair Strides 508]

[Just a warning here guys. We don't need to be starting a flame war over The Old Republic, okay? We've seen opinions and small rants, dotted with mocking, insulting, and name-calling, but I don't want to see things escalate for no reason. Got it? I won't do anything yet unless someone decides to escalate the situation, but please: no more guys...]