Unofficial TSLRCM Tweak Pack 1.3

Absolutely amazing (^o^) I happen to agree with everything you have written here. Good for you and thank you for sharing. I wasn't keen on many of the changes the tslrcm took liberty with but I wasn't about to complain when I am of the belief that the tslrcm is perhaps the greatest achievement in video game modification history to date. With that being said KUDOS to you. Although the changes are minor in the overall tslrcm they are significant and lean on the immersion of the entire game. And as we all know, Star Wars Fans are a "SPECIAL" breed XD Congratulations once more for having the guts to do it. I look forward to playing it in the next few weeks when I start my  tslrcm 1.8.2 m4-78ep run through in May.

Thanks for putting this together. I finished my first TSLRCM run last night and spent the last 24 hours trying to figure out how I was going to decide between the vanilla version and the restored version. Now I don't have to.

Well done!

well thought mod,nicely packaged install method too,

Thanks for making it pick-and-choose-style.  I disagree with component #1 but am thankful you included component #2.

Component #1 which removes Kaeve isn't compatible with the TSLCRM compatible Handmaiden 4 Females mod. The bug is that it still triggers for Disciple to join your party on Dantooine which replaces the Handmaiden. For now, reinstalling the Handmaiden mod over again works, but if you want to fix this in the future, it would be appreciated.

What were the exact lines You removed from Kreia-Attris dialogue? The case is - as far as I know from Wookiepedia - they could refer to the fact that Kreia was there not physically, but in ATRIS'es MIND. Just want to be sure before I get to the end.

What were the exact lines You removed from Kreia-Attris dialogue? The case is - as far as I know from Wookiepedia - they could refer to the fact that Kreia was there not physically, but in ATRIS'es MIND. Just want to be sure before I get to the end.

Lines that were removed were  those that imply that she was there and that she ASKED for her(him) to be exiled, which, as we find out from Jedi Masters, doesn't make sense in context of the story.

The idea that Kreia asked for the Exile to be exiled produces a whole load of logical and narrative problems if you think about it.

I'm sure it got cut on purpose, as part of the earlier draft of the story, when Atris was on Malachor, and Kreia and Atris' roles were somewhat reversed. (Interestingly, you can still find audio in the game's files of what is now Kreia's dialogue but recorded by Atris' actress).

The idea that Kreia asked for the Exile to be exiled produces a whole load of logical and narrative problems if you think about it.

 

I'm sure it got cut on purpose, as part of the earlier draft of the story, when Atris was on Malachor, and Kreia and Atris' roles were somewhat reversed. (Interestingly, you can still find audio in the game's files of what is now Kreia's dialogue but recorded by Atris' actress).

Exactly.

Thank you very much for this. As outstanding as TSLRCM is, it is unfortunate when it restores content that was *not* cut due to time or production restraints, but rather cut because they don't fit the latest iteration of the story.

Is that OK to install this tweak pack after Rebuild Enclave? No conflicts? 

Is that OK to install this tweak pack after Rebuild Enclave? No conflicts? 

There shouldn't be any. There are no files modified by both of them.

Is there anything that would need to be done for full compatibility with 1.8.5, Pavijan357?

Is there anything that would need to be done for full compatibility with 1.8.5, Pavijan357?

Nope.

It was compatible with TSLRCM 1.8.5 version, but just in case  I updated the files to that version, so now there's no doubt.

The idea that Kreia asked for the Exile to be exiled produces a whole load of logical and narrative problems if you think about it.

 

I'm sure it got cut on purpose, as part of the earlier draft of the story, when Atris was on Malachor, and Kreia and Atris' roles were somewhat reversed. (Interestingly, you can still find audio in the game's files of what is now Kreia's dialogue but recorded by Atris' actress).

Realizing that this is years later, but I had two ideas about Kreia being at the council that make her dialogue with Atris make logical sense.  

The first is hinted at when you arrive at the Polar Academy on Telos.  Atris is unaware that Kreia is with you. Likewise when you confront the Jedi Masters on their respective planets they are unaware that she is with you until she reveals herself to them on Dantooine.  So it is certainly plausible that she manipulated Atris and the Council after the war and they don't remember.

The second is simple: Kreia is a Liar and Manipulator. She's lying or manipulating Atris in order to push her to the Dark Side, because as we saw earlier, she could easily hide her presence or her true self from Atris. The fact is, it's very difficult to piece together Kreia's motivations or her plan because she does conceal so much from you. We don't know the facts of anything that happened between the war and immediately before the story begins, but we do know that the logs on the Harbinger suggest a different reality than what HK-50 and Kreia told you on Peragus.  That could be chalked up to bad writing, but we do know that both of them lie.

For all we know, Kreia's plan to destroy the force dates back many years before the war and that she has been manipulating events since then. We do know that she was exiled before the war, because she was thought lost during it.

I have GoG version of the game after selecting Complete Installer and selecting my game folder , i noticed it created another Folder inside main folder called "SWKotOr2" (with modules and override folder) inside my F:\GAMING\GoG Games\Star Wars - KotOR2

is that ok or should i put the content of it on the actual main folder?

might I suggest a change in dialogue between atris and Brianna's sisters, the one in telos academy where atris tells Brianna to go with the exile and tells her that it must be kept a secret even from her sister and then in the very next scene she reveals that secret to her sister. it was a glaring contradiction so I think the vanilla dialogue where she tells them she doesn't know why she left would have been better.

@Pavijan357 I don't think your Jorran fix works. I have TSLRCM 1.8.5 and your 1.2.3 version of this mod. Removed Kaeve (both components) and Jorran didn't give me a saber part.

I Know this is a year after the last update but... in regards to the whole "Kreia Atris" conversation I point to this video 

It proves that Kreia is able to place Mental suggestions, appear before people, talk with them then make them forget the conversation and only remember it when she wants them to/allows it. I think this scene clarifies how Kreia could have done the same to Atris

"but in those dialogue line it is implied that she actively advocated for the Exile to be removed from the Jedi order which can not be done by someone who is invisible and unnoticeable  to the whole Council  at that point and therefore can not interact and influence them in any meaningful way." I would like to rebut this the scene only says that she told Atris to Exile the PC ("I did as you asked" instead of "we") and as the Disciple example shows she is very capable of doing that. The way I read the scene in this context is "Kreia talks with Atris/leaves a mental suggestion, makes her forget then in the 'Quiet thing to fall scene' makes her remember"

On 2/13/2020 at 9:16 AM, losemi said:

might I suggest a change in dialogue between atris and Brianna's sisters, the one in telos academy where atris tells Brianna to go with the exile and tells her that it must be kept a secret even from her sister and then in the very next scene she reveals that secret to her sister. it was a glaring contradiction so I think the vanilla dialogue where she tells them she doesn't know why she left would have been better.

I do not notice that detail. Will check it out next time.

On 3/15/2020 at 5:32 AM, CyberNinjaZero said:

I Know this is a year after the last update but... in regards to the whole "Kreia Atris" conversation I point to this video 

It proves that Kreia is able to place Mental suggestions, appear before people, talk with them then make them forget the conversation and only remember it when she wants them to/allows it. I think this scene clarifies how Kreia could have done the same to Atris

"but in those dialogue line it is implied that she actively advocated for the Exile to be removed from the Jedi order which can not be done by someone who is invisible and unnoticeable  to the whole Council  at that point and therefore can not interact and influence them in any meaningful way." I would like to rebut this the scene only says that she told Atris to Exile the PC ("I did as you asked" instead of "we") and as the Disciple example shows she is very capable of doing that. The way I read the scene in this context is "Kreia talks with Atris/leaves a mental suggestion, makes her forget then in the 'Quiet thing to fall scene' makes her remember"

This also applies to the @iPlissken from several years ago

I rephrased my self in original comment.

I know that Kreia is a manipulator and a liar, and I am perfectly aware of Kreia's abilities and the fact that she is able to influence someone while being unseen.

The point is that particular line that has been added by TSLRCM goes like this:
"I was the one who asked him to be exiled."

So it was ASKED, not "influenced" or "suggested". The line implies that she was there as an active participant of the trial, not that she was manipulating people from the shadow (which could MAYBE be possible but it was not what was implied here).

That particular line does not fit the story as it is presented in the final form and that is not only my sentiment but the most likely the one of the game developers, who deliberately cut that line, not because of any bug or time constraints (because VO was always there, it would be several seconds of work to activate the line), but for  no other reason than because they simply felt that it doesn't make sense...

On 3/12/2020 at 7:37 PM, SovereignXII said:

@Pavijan357 I don't think your Jorran fix works. I have TSLRCM 1.8.5 and your 1.2.3 version of this mod. Removed Kaeve (both components) and Jorran didn't give me a saber part.

Did you resolve the quest in a Light side or or Dark side way?

Because last time I played and killed him I got the lightsaber part .

Will check it out soon anyway.

11 hours ago, Pavijan357 said:

Did you resolve the quest in a Light side or or Dark side way?

Because last time I played and killed him I got the lightsaber part .

Will check it out soon anyway.

I did it lightside and was just given a saber upgrade.

On 3/25/2020 at 1:46 AM, SovereignXII said:

I did it lightside and was just given a saber upgrade.

I checked this and yes, Jorran gave the lightsaber part only if you bought the Jedi items from him in the scavenger camp, otherwise he just gave lightsaber upgrades.
Fix for this added in the version 1.2.4.

On 2/13/2020 at 9:16 AM, losemi said:

might I suggest a change in dialogue between atris and Brianna's sisters, the one in telos academy where atris tells Brianna to go with the exile and tells her that it must be kept a secret even from her sister and then in the very next scene she reveals that secret to her sister. it was a glaring contradiction so I think the vanilla dialogue where she tells them she doesn't know why she left would have been better.

Removed the contradictory line in the version 1.2.4.

2) In the restored dialogue between Atris and “Last of the Handmaidens” (that shows up if it is the Atris the one that sends her with the male Exile) there is the line, told by Atris, about how the fact that she has been sent with the Exile by Atris and reason why, should both be kept as secret from her sisters, but in the very next scene Atris tells them both of those things herself, therefore I removed that contradictory line.
Only that one line is removed, the rest of the restored dialogue is not touched.

I fail to understand why this was included at all and not even made optional, since as of now you cannot have 1) without 2). Atris asked the Handmaiden to keep it a secret so as to make her sisters believe her, Atris, and not the Handmaiden. In the next scene, what she says is "Her reasons are unknown to me. But I fear she may no longer be trusted". There's nothing contradictory here. There's manipulation and lies, but no contradiction.

What makes no sense is removing that line, so that there's no reason for the Handmaiden not to tell her sisters, and then have her sisters not know why she left.

Does this mod prevent you from completing the Jedi Redemption quest? IIRC, TSLRCM adding the Jedi thief gave new dialogue with Suulru, and if you had Kreia in your party she would defend the Jedi as having sacrificed themselves for people like Suulru. That would update the Jedi Redemption quest, and if you did more sidequests in the settler's favor you would eventually complete the quest.

On 7/4/2020 at 1:30 PM, La Ingobernable said:

2) In the restored dialogue between Atris and “Last of the Handmaidens” (that shows up if it is the Atris the one that sends her with the male Exile) there is the line, told by Atris, about how the fact that she has been sent with the Exile by Atris and reason why, should both be kept as secret from her sisters, but in the very next scene Atris tells them both of those things herself, therefore I removed that contradictory line.
Only that one line is removed, the rest of the restored dialogue is not touched.

 

I fail to understand why this was included at all and not even made optional, since as of now you cannot have 1) without 2). Atris asked the Handmaiden to keep it a secret so as to make her sisters believe her, Atris, and not the Handmaiden. In the next scene, what she says is "Her reasons are unknown to me. But I fear she may no longer be trusted". There's nothing contradictory here. There's manipulation and lies, but no contradiction.

What makes no sense is removing that line, so that there's no reason for the Handmaiden not to tell her sisters, and then have her sisters not know why she left.

Upon reevaluating the conditions for that conversation to appear and replaying the game,  I realized that it does in fact make some sense within the general context, so you will be glad to know that I removed Atris-Handmaiden part from the Component 5 in the latest 1.3 version.

On 11/19/2020 at 8:20 PM, wertwert5555 said:

Does this mod prevent you from completing the Jedi Redemption quest? IIRC, TSLRCM adding the Jedi thief gave new dialogue with Suulru, and if you had Kreia in your party she would defend the Jedi as having sacrificed themselves for people like Suulru. That would update the Jedi Redemption quest, and if you did more sidequests in the settler's favor you would eventually complete the quest.

No, it does not prevent the "Jedi Redemption" completion as far as I know.
I think you have enough sidequests to complete it even without this one.