[KotOR] Debugging tar_m09aa: the mystery of the rifle

[Salk 374]

Hello!

I am probably one of the very few in the world that is heavily bothered by what happens in the tar_m09aa and that was reported in the past (including here on Deadlystream) but never investigated nor fixed. I did try to investigate the matter myself at the best of my abilities and I have made some progress but couldn't proceed any further.

What I have found out so far is the following:

- this bug happens IF the player enters the area with at least one companion AND if it is the player (and not a companion) entering the area

- this bug can be removed by removing six creatures (all war droids - the weapon on the floor is in fact what they use) from the .git file of that area: Struct Index 11, 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26

So rather than a Mod request, this is a request for assistance in this matter.

Thanks for the attention.

 

[DarthParametric 3,785]

38 minutes ago, Salk said:

all war droids - the weapon on the floor is in fact what they use

War droids have integrated weapon models. I wonder if that is part of the problem. They possibly lack weapon hooks for the guns to attach to? I thought there were null weapons (stats but no models) for exactly this reason.

Edit: Here, try this @Salk

https://www.darthparametric.com/files/kotor/k1/[K1]_Taris_Sith_Base_Stray_Blaster_Cleanup.7z

You'll want to load from a save prior to entering.

[Salk 374]

I will try that right away, thanks!

I do have a save just outside the base.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

If there ends up being a blaster pistol there instead, that might confirm the theory.

[Salk 374]

I am glad to report that your fix seems to have remedied the problem, DarthParametric!

I am very thankful for the assistance although I cannot really understand how this issue triggered only under some specific conditions.

It may be very likely that other modules have the same kind of problem (I remember Tatooine, docking area, for instance and someone reported Davik's estate in Taris). I guess every module with war droids is at risk.

I will keep an eye out for this under my playthrough.

Said that, there was nothing on the floor. No rifle and no pistol.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

I'm not sure why you get variable results with player vs party members. That is extremely weird. But leaving that aside, the problem seems to be Bioware erroneously equipping a "proper" repeating blaster rifle on one war droid UTC rather than the null version they should have used. The reason I mentioned the pistol is because the probe droid has a Zabrak blaster pistol equipped instead of a null weapon. I assumed that would lead to the same problem, but seemingly not.

If you can identify other modules where it occurs a mod that fixes it can be put together.

[Salk 374]

Oh now everything is more clear.

I should have thought about it. Good thinking as usual, DarthParametric. 

 

The mystery of the variable result with player vs party members will probably have to remain such...  

 

Kudos!

[DarthParametric 3,785]

22 minutes ago, Salk said:

Good thinking as usual, DarthParametric. 

I can't take any credit for it. You were the one that identified the war droids being the issue. It was simple deduction from that point. I doubt I would have ever leapt to that conclusion myself.

[ebmar 893]

On 8/29/2018 at 4:09 PM, DarthParametric said:

https://www.darthparametric.com/files/kotor/k1/[K1]_Taris_Sith_Base_Stray_Blaster_Cleanup.7z

I am here to report that the fix works like a charm!

And I believe it is worth an official release as this bug was a major one. I used to thought that "someone was here before us...." the very first time I encountered the rifle lol.

In-game preview:

• Spoiler

  

   

Many thanks to you- DP and Salk for getting this issue done.  

[DarthParametric 3,785]

6 minutes ago, ebmar said:

getting this issue done

It's not done yet. Provided above is one way to circumvent this particular occurrence, but further experimentation by @JCarter426 only lead to more head scratching about the exact nature of the underlying cause  And there's also the question of where else it might occur in either game.

[JCarter426 1,215]

Can confirm. It's perplexing. And I don't know if discovering the underlying cause is even worth it, when fixing it is so much easier. For those interested, though, we were able to confirm the following things:

• It only occurs with certain appearances.
• All the affected models lack hand hooks. (e.g. HK-47 is unaffected)
• Not all models that lack hand hooks are affected. (e.g. Gizka are unaffected)
• It only happened with one UTC file that we tested.
• The weapon is spawned at world origin, making the problem unlikely to occur in other areas because the origin is usually outside the visible game world.

[Salk 374]

I can confirm what DarthParametric is saying.

The issue there is solved in my case but only because I am using SithSpecter's HQ Blaster modification. I noticed that without it (non modded KotOR installation) the issue is still present but instead of one kind of rifle there is another one (sorry I cannot be more specific but if and when time comes for more testing I am of course more than available).

[Salk 374]

15 minutes ago, JCarter426 said:

 

• The weapon is spawned at world origin, making the problem unlikely to occur in other areas because the origin is usually outside the visible game world.

 

I have reported a similar problem on Tatooine (docking area). One rifle was sitting just under the Ebon Hawk. I suppose that was the world origin for that map.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Salk
Sorry, JC... Fixed link.

[JCarter426 1,215]

Just now, Salk said:

The issue there is solved in my case but only because I am using SithSpecter's HQ Blaster modification.

That's because Sithspecter was trying to fix the bug. High Quality Blasters makes that model variation invisible.

5 minutes ago, Salk said:

I have reported a similar problem on Tatooine (docking area). One rifle was sitting just under the Ebon Hawk. I suppose that was the world origin for that map.

I don't see anything under the Ebon Hawk but that is indeed where the origin is, so I wouldn't rule it out. If it is there, it would probably be from one of the turrets - tat17_turret_01.utc and tat17_turret_02.utc.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

I couldn't see it on my tests, and as I recall both the turret inventories have null weapons equipped (which is the fix).

[JCarter426 1,215]

They do appear to be null. Could have been a mod that was changing their inventories, or the null weapon itself.

I was able to find another instance in the Sith base on Manaan, outside the visible game world this time:

Spoiler

 

[DarthParametric 3,785]

The nulls are just model variation numbers with no vanilla models. It would be almost a certainty that some mod uses one of those variation numbers.

[R2-X2 35]

Hehe, nice link in the topic post, @Salk

It's amazing to see that you guys actually managed to find the cause of this weird occurence!