Nar Shaddaa Expansion

[Whyp 23]

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This mod is still in ALPHA! There won't be a public playable version until BETA. Currently, me, N-DReW25 and Quanon. (reskinning, repropping, and making some new modules)
Pre-Alpha - Concept
Alpha - W.I.P
Beta - Ready for testing
1.0 - Full release

Pre-Alpha to Alpha transition goals:
* Write an actual story for the new complex and for the changes. (and get feedback) (began working on it, and it's partially done)
* Find good ideas and add them to the TO DO list. (Suggestions are still welcome, but when this mods hits BETA, suggestions won't be necessary, only testers!)
* Have Poll 1 completed. (Min 5 votes!)
* Get modules reskinned and ready to edit. (Quanon's going to start reskinning them soon... I think... I hope... I don't know.)
* Get tehnical help. (AT LEAST 1 EXPERIENCED MODDER!!) (Quanon,N-DReW25, SuperSzym)

Alpha to Beta transition goals:
- Finish the mod.
- Get some testers when it's ready.
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Even if I'm not an experienced modder, I always wanted to try to make KotOR feel more immersive and expand it. Now, I can finally do that for Nar Shaddaa. You see, even if the game engine is rather limited, I always thought that Nar Shaddaa isn't as big as it should be. In SWTOR, it's rather big and immersive, in KotOR... Not so much. And I know, SWTOR is much, much newer, but even in the Jedi Knights series, Nar Shaddaa feels like it should be: A big city, like Coruscant, but it's lawless and darker. Anyways, back to KotOR - other areas, like Dxun, Telos, Korriban, are as big as they should be. Plus, they have that atmosphere, that all their other appearances also have. But Nar Shaddaa is dull... For now!


(Overview taken from GameBanshee, lots of thanks for having in-depth game walkthroughs!)

Now, looking at the overview of the Nar Shaddaa Refugee Sector, it's big, and leads to other parts of Nar Shaddaa: Refugee Docks, Cantina and Pazaak room, and the Refugee living quarters. Now, the 17th place on the map is an empty room, where some thugs attack a Twi'lek. And I don't think this area would've been better if the game would've been completed. I think, by putting the cutscene outside, this room could become a Merchant Quarter, filled with chests and vendors!
Then. we have the 16th place on the map, the cut TSLRCM cantina. I think the mod is going to have to depend on TSLRCM for A LOT of things, so remaking the cantina a bit is going to be ok. Possibly some new NPC's and a bartender.
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Nar Shaddaa Refugee Sector Expansion areas:

- Old Promenade (30% progress)

- Hutt's Hideout Club (30% progress) 
- Old Promenade Entertainment Center (Old Entertaiment Module) (Taki17's idea, thanks!) (I'll use its entrance for the new Nar Shaddaa part) (From Vanilla Game)

- Landing Pad Restored Cantina (65% progress)
- Merchant Quarter (Landing Pad Empty Room) (0% progress)
- Dock Offices? (Fassa's office? Ship shop? Suggestions are appreciated! (0% progress)
This is all I have planned for now, help will be appreciated!
People that can gelp me with writing some new story elements and help me with the tehnical stuff are needed!
Poll 1 closed!
Results:
1. Add an Old Promenade north? Most people say YES.
2. Total cantinas? 2
3. Total casinos? 1
4. GenoHaradan knowledge? Some people know the name, not all though.
5. Merchant quarters? 2 in total.
Conclusion:
People want an Old Promenade north, but they don't want cantinas, casinos or merchant quarters. I can't make an empty area just for the sake of making a new area. You can come up with suggestions! And the GenoHaradans are just a name for some refugees, they don't know who they are, where they are, or anything of that nature.

Contact:
Steam: Qyzen_Hunter
Skype: whyp.gamer05

[Squall Lionhart 81]

I like the concept behind this, though I do have one question. For the main module, which Telos module are you going to reskin? 

[Taki17 4]

Just putting out some ideas brainstorming-like, whatever comes to my mind, in no particular order:

 

Don't forget that  - if I'm not mistaken - TSLRCM restores the other room, opposite to the warehouse you mentioned. It's a small cantina, and if I remember correctly, the trandoshan who tells you about the other bounty hunters now resides there. That place also could use a little facelift.

 

Also, there are a lot of unused or otherwise boring/empty areas around the main hub of the Refugee sector as well. Like that small office near the docks and Tien's workshop. That would be useful for something as well. The Refugee sector could use some more stuff (be it people or just objects like crates or trash) to make it more immersive.

 

Another idea, though it might conflict with some mods: how about replacing the Entertainment Promenade with a larger module, wherere there are more cantinas and casinos (maybe use Citadel station entertainment module)? And the original Promenade could be a subsection of this.

[Whyp 23]

I like the concept behind this, though I do have one question. For the main module, which Telos module are you going to reskin? 

Hmm, Residential 082 East module. It looks very Nar Shaddaa-y. If anyone can reskin it, that would be great!

 

 

Just putting out some ideas brainstorming-like, whatever comes to my mind, in no particular order:

 

Don't forget that  - if I'm not mistaken - TSLRCM restores the other room, opposite to the warehouse you mentioned. It's a small cantina, and if I remember correctly, the trandoshan who tells you about the other bounty hunters now resides there. That place also could use a little facelift.

 

Also, there are a lot of unused or otherwise boring/empty areas around the main hub of the Refugee sector as well. Like that small office near the docks and Tien's workshop. That would be useful for something as well. The Refugee sector could use some more stuff (be it people or just objects like crates or trash) to make it more immersive.

 

Another idea, though it might conflict with some mods: how about replacing the Entertainment Promenade with a larger module, wherere there are more cantinas and casinos (maybe use Citadel station entertainment module)? And the original Promenade could be a subsection of this.

 

1. Cantina - Good idea, it could probably use some more NPC's. And a bartender?

2. Unused stuff - The small office in the docks could probably be used for something Vogga-related... Can't think of anything for it right now... And Tien's workshop? There could be a greeter droid (I can probbaly do some VOs for it) that could have a quest involving the new section.

3. Use E.P.'s entrance as an entrance for the new section - I really like this idea, problem is, I don't really have an idea of how to do this, (original idea would be to talking to a greeter droid outside the new part) but I think I'll find a way. (maybe someone experienced enough can help me, or at least give me a tutorial?) And compatibility issues...? I think it's going to work with TSLRCM, but with other mods, not so sure!

I think another good idea would be to put some ad signs (like those on Telos) on those empty metal walls...

[Taki17 4]

2. Unused stuff - The small office in the docks could probably be used for something Vogga-related... Can't think of anything for it right now... And Tien's workshop? There could be a greeter droid (I can probbaly do some VOs for it) that could have a quest involving the new

I think Tien's workshop is fine as it is, it has enough stuff and characters with Tien himself and his droids.

 

I don't think the office is Vogga related, I was thinking about the small room with 2 entrances (on the map, the room between 4 and 6). It's a small office with a desk, chair and some crates. Looks like a store or reception area. Maybe the toydarian dockmaster's office (the one that has a problem with the Hawk parking at a reserved spot)? Not sure.

[Whyp 23]

I think Tien's workshop is fine as it is, it has enough stuff and characters with Tien himself and his droids.

 

I don't think the office is Vogga related, I was thinking about the small room with 2 entrances (on the map, the room between 4 and 6). It's a small office with a desk, chair and some crates. Looks like a store or reception area. Maybe the toydarian dockmaster's office (the one that has a problem with the Hawk parking at a reserved spot)? Not sure.

BTW, Fassa is the toydarian. The office idea isn't all that great, and the store... Maybe a ship store would work?

Edit + Not related: I think Mira should comment on some areas of the new 'complex'... Not enough resources sadly  T3 can chirp in, and HK should also say stuff, using some costum VO with the HK filter. (Sith Holocron's HK Filter is awesome, btw!)

Edit 2: There are 4 entrances/module teleports in the main module... Only three to use for custom stuff, and only two to use if I include in the 082 West Module. I say 082 WEST is useless, and I should instead add a Vogga's/another hutt's palace in its place.  Then, it's a MUST for me to add the entertaiment module. So, one more area to add... Maybe Nar Shaddaa docks 2? (Telos Docks reskinned) Not sure... 

[N-DReW25 1,320]

Might I suggest using elements of the cut Genoharadan content. If you don't know what they are the Genoharadan originally had a place in Kotor 2 but was cut and unlike other parts of the game, there wasn't enough content to restore properly into TSLRCM. Several attempts have been made to restore the content however they have all failed, one of the modders Exile007 has released his TSLRCM Incompatible work to the download section- http://deadlystream.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1 so you could use that to have a look at that mod and see what you like.

 

From what I understand the Batu Rem assassin was supposed to be a Genoharadan Disciple who was sent to kill you, The Genoharadan were also supposed to be hunting your PC as well as the Sith and the Exchange and their base of operation was in the Jekk Jekk Tarr but when they were cut Batu and the Jekk Jekk Tarr become Exchange content.

[Whyp 23]

I'm not so sure about touching that stuff... Especially the Jek Jek Tar!

Maybe a genoharadan base? The Sith don't even touch Nar Shaddaa, the exchange are clearly more hidden to have a place in the new complex... Genoharadans would fit into the story, but how?

[N-DReW25 1,320]

I'm not so sure about touching that stuff... Especially the Jek Jek Tar!

Maybe a genoharadan base? The Sith don't even touch Nar Shaddaa, the exchange are clearly more hidden to have a place in the new complex... Genoharadans would fit into the story, but how?

Instead of putting the GenoHaradan into the Jekk Jekk Tarr why not put them in that complex next to Vogga's place like the GenoHaradan in Exile007's mod was, however, you could instead of restoring the cut content you might want to make a new GenoHaradan for your mod. If I had to I'd put the GenoHaradan in a new module and you learn about their existence through the Trandoshan in the Cantina, Maybe also have GenoHaradan hunters who appear on multiple worlds like the HK-50's who are sent to capture you. Maybe after killing all the GenoHaradan Members and maybe after completing the Nar Shadda plot you might get an offer to join the GenoHaradan like Calo Nord and Revan did and you get to meet up with the current Overseer Senni Vek from Kotor 1 who will tell you about how Hulas and all the other overseers were killed (Revan dark side) or how Revan rejected their offer (Revan light side) and you can be sent out to kill GenoHaradan targets.

 

We can't pull the Kotor 1 kill all the other overseers trick again so the target would either be rivaling gangs, government bounties, Jedi or other NPC's and these targets could also spread into other sidequests. The reward for these bounties would be the Kotor 1 GenoHaradan Items recreated from scratch (Very Easy stuff) and maybe new items like GenoHaradan Blaster Rifles, Implant and so on.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Forgive the late commentary but . . . after the expansion the TSLRCM has already done for Nar Shaddaa, wouldn't extending Nar Shaddaa past that be more of a punishment to the player?

[Guest]

I'd like this idea if it was subtle and had no fan VA work, otherwise- pass. 

[N-DReW25 1,320]

Forgive the late commentary but . . . after the expansion the TSLRCM has already done for Nar Shaddaa, wouldn't extending Nar Shaddaa past that be more of a punishment to the player?

For me, if these sidequests were optional and/or beneficial for my character then I'd play it. If this mod had poor voice overs, bugs, poor story writing, stupid nonsense, boring content, mandatory to complete the game and an orange filter that goes over every NPC and Placeable in the modules *cough* Cathalan *cough* then I'd pass.

[Whyp 23]

First of all, I agree, fan VA isn't a great idea after all... Guess recycling VOs will do. And... More subtle? I'm trying to make Nar Shaddaa bigger, not just some small changes.

And just so you know, the new complex will be OPTIONAL! It will just provide some fun sidequests, some new story elements and some new areas for the players to explore...

[N-DReW25 1,320]

First of all, I agree, fan VA isn't a great idea after all... Guess recycling VOs will do. And... More subtle? I'm trying to make Nar Shaddaa bigger, not just some small changes.

And just so you know, the new complex will be OPTIONAL! It will just provide some fun sidequests, some new story elements and some new areas for the players to explore...

Fan Voice Overs aren't "that" bad. If you do the voice overs good the mod is better for it, Just look at M4-78EP- http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/579-m4-78-enhancement-project/ some of the dialogues are brilliantly well done however some can be considered horrible but in the upcoming 1.3 update most of those bad voice overs will be replaced with better ones so it's just going to get better. (The most likely problem with the M4-78 voice overs is nearly  all have a voice over which means more actors, if you were smart you'd maybe have two voice acted characters and have 11 alien voice acted characters)

 

A good example of bad quality would be the infamous Cathalan mod which I have a walkthrough of- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQKAtqiHzEesDA-enlyJ8xzw0hFh4t8Qf (If you have any questions but the mod ask it on one of my comment sections...not here)

 

I feel like mentioning Quanon has made some custom made Nar Shadda Modules that he has shown footage of on Youtub

I highly doubt it's finished and if you'll get the permission to use but I feel like that was worth bringing up!

[Whyp 23]

Fan Voice Overs aren't "that" bad. If you do the voice overs good the mod is better for it, Just look at M4-78EP- http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/579-m4-78-enhancement-project/ some of the dialogues are brilliantly well done however some can be considered horrible but in the upcoming 1.3 update most of those bad voice overs will be replaced with better ones so it's just going to get better. (The most likely problem with the M4-78 voice overs is nearly  all have a voice over which means more actors, if you were smart you'd maybe have two voice acted characters and have 11 alien voice acted characters)

A good example of bad quality would be the infamous Cathalan mod which I have a walkthrough of- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQKAtqiHzEesDA-enlyJ8xzw0hFh4t8Qf (If you have any questions but the mod ask it on one of my comment sections...not here)

 

I feel like mentioning Quanon has made some custom made Nar Shadda Modules that he has shown footage of on Youtub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnxjbCMhZ9Q

I highly doubt it's finished and if you'll get the permission to use but I feel like that was worth bringing up!

Sadly the vid doesn't work... Anyways, it would take years for him to finish the custom modules, so I think using reskinned modules is better. And I dunno if I'll use custom VO... If I find some good voice actors, maybe...

[bead-v 251]

Here's some advice I'd give. If you don't want it, just ignore it

 

Make the decision about the VOs last (relatively). It's probably a good idea to make your characters aliens but keep in mind that you might be converting (some of) them to humans later. Anyway you've got a LOT of other work to do before you even get to actually finalizing the characters, which is when you will know for sure what you even need in terms of VOs, so it's pointless to think about VOs and voice actors now.

 

The only exception is reused VO. If you plan on doing that, and especially if it's important to the story, collect your VOs first. Mute scenes don't work very well, and animations can't save you all the time!

 

Also, do your story first and only move on when it's solid. It needs to be well thought out because it's not gonna help you if at some point you realize you can't pull something off and then you have to scrap a bunch of things and start over.

 

I wish you good luck and lots of great ideas for your mod

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Regarding VO: This quote of mine has had lot of use lately but it's still useful.

 

This information that follows - previously posted elsewhere - applies here as well.

 

I'm not involved with this project so take what I say with a grain of salt. From what I've seen with any mod involving them, voiceovers should always be done last. Two points to consider . . .

 

- Lines change often: Volunteers that record one set of perfect recordings maybe not available down the road so it's best to record a part's lines all at once. Since dialogue (followed by voiceovers) tends to be the last thing to be finalized, that's why recordings tend to be done best when done last. Keep in mind, you might be available all the way through but I'm sure you are not the only part or actor under consideration.

- They aren't as important as the other parts of the mod: If you don't have everything else worked out in the mod - cutscenes, character movement, etc - then voiceovers recorded early will emphasize that things were rushed.

 

TLDR: Think of voiceovers as the cherry on top of the ice cream sundae. You have to make the rest of the sundae before you put that cherry there.

Another thing that I have to ask. If you don't even have a story, why are you making an announcement thread? It seems . . . premature. However, I wish you the best of luck!

[Whyp 23]

Here's some advice I'd give. If you don't want it, just ignore it

Make the decision about the VOs last (relatively). It's probably a good idea to make your characters aliens but keep in mind that you might be converting (some of) them to humans later. Anyway you've got a LOT of other work to do before you even get to actually finalizing the characters, which is when you will know for sure what you even need in terms of VOs, so it's pointless to think about VOs and voice actors now.

The only exception is reused VO. If you plan on doing that, and especially if it's important to the story, collect your VOs first. Mute scenes don't work very well, and animations can't save you all the time!

Also, do your story first and only move on when it's solid. It needs to be well thought out because it's not gonna help you if at some point you realize you can't pull something off and then you have to scrap a bunch of things and start over.

I wish you good luck and lots of great ideas for your mod

Regarding VO: This quote of mine has had lot of use lately but it's still useful.

 

This information that follows - previously posted elsewhere - applies here as well.

 

Another thing that I have to ask. If you don't even have a story, why are you making an announcement thread? It seems . . . premature. However, I wish you the best of luck!

Thanks for the advice!
Anyone that wants to help me with the more 'technical' part of the mod?
Also, Sith Holocron, I already have the story, it's a little short though, I need to expand it a little.
BTW: The complex isn't a complex... It's the Old Promenade! (if you played SWTOR, you know there's a promenade, which it's currently being built by the Hutts in KotOR II, people are going to talk about that)

 

I have a small poll for you all:
Some small questions for those who want to help a little
Not related to the poll: Maybe the GenoHaradan can be persuaded to help you stop the Exchange. (They'd tell you how to contact Visquis when you become a member.)

 

Admin: Merged

[Vriff 21]

Maybe you should contact Quanon and ask about using his Nar Shaddaa expansion modules in your mod? Not sure if he would let you, but it's worth a try and better than reusing vanilla modules.

 

good luck.

[Whyp 23]

Maybe you should contact Quanon and ask about using his Nar Shaddaa expansion modules in your mod? Not sure if he would let you, but it's worth a try and better than reusing vanilla modules.

 

good luck.

He agreed to help me some hours ago! I'm already going to use reskinned modules as the main promenade stuff, and the cantina and casinos are going to be made by him.

Also, please vote, the poll is there for a reason!

[N-DReW25 1,320]

There is left over Dialogue for Goto during the Bounty Hunter meeting where he says "The GenoHaradan are no concern of yours"! I will be making a Restoration mod for those unused dialogues in the future but if the exchange does know of the GenoHaradan that can be used in the mod.

[Whyp 23]

I'll edit that to "The exile is no concern of yours." Start speculating if you want.

[djnugent 34]

What about a restaurant / grocery store? I always thought that if you put one in there somewhere where maybe the owner is charging a ransom for the smallest pieces of fruit around all of these starving, fighting refugees you could expand it out a bit:

 

 - maybe have a scene where the proprietor asks for help because their being robbed by desperate hungry refugees (or, through the investigation, it's discovered that they're being robbed by desperate, hungry refugees...)
- WHICH would open the door to a light/dark quest - get paid for stopping the robberies, or help the refugees in some way...?

 

It just seems to me that Nar Shaddaa is the best place to put an emphasis on that gray-area of moral ambiguity - what's better than crime vs need?

 

Only in my opinion, that's really what Nar Shaddaa is missing more of. I think that any additions (GenoHaradan, Hutts, etc) should be used to further drive home the point that the "galaxy" lives within the "Gray-Area", and Nar Shaddaa is the perfect stage for that.

 

Just my 2 cents :-)

[Whyp 23]

 

 

What about a restaurant / grocery store? I always thought that if you put one in there somewhere where maybe the owner is charging a ransom for the smallest pieces of fruit around all of these starving, fighting refugees you could expand it out a bit:

- maybe have a scene where the proprietor asks for help because their being robbed by desperate hungry refugees (or, through the investigation, it's discovered that they're being robbed by desperate, hungry refugees...)
- WHICH would open the door to a light/dark quest - get paid for stopping the robberies, or help the refugees in some way...?

It just seems to me that Nar Shaddaa is the best place to put an emphasis on that gray-area of moral ambiguity - what's better than crime vs need?

Only in my opinion, that's really what Nar Shaddaa is missing more of. I think that any additions (GenoHaradan, Hutts, etc) should be used to further drive home the point that the "galaxy" lives within the "Gray-Area", and Nar Shaddaa is the perfect stage for that.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Interesting idea... We all know we can't have Grocery Shops/Restaurants in Star Wars. Cantinas and merchant quarters will have to do. Anyways, the quest is amazing, and the cantina in the Landing Pad SHOULD have the bartender complain about 'not finding resources' at one point. Nice idea

 

The poll is going to be closed in a few days! Vote while you still can! I'm leaning towards no Old Promenade North, because most of you said it's okay with what I already have planned, Nar Shaddaa will have enough stuff, even if you all said the Old Promenade North is okay.

POLL CLOSED! Ideas for the North Promenade are welcome, but if there won't be any...

 

Admin: Merged

[Domino5555 119]

The poll is going to be closed in a few days! Vote while you still can! I'm leaning towards no Old Promenade North, because most of you said it's okay with what I already have planned, Nar Shaddaa will have enough stuff, even if you all said the Old Promenade North is okay.

 

POLL CLOSED! Ideas for the North Promenade are welcome, but if there won't be any... 

I want there to be a casino there.