Nexus reuploading mods?

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

Doesn't Nexus Mods get ad revenue from page views/clicks?

 

I guess respecting mod authors is only important until there's money to be made.

This.

[JCarter426 1,216]

I can see how it happened and they didn't try contacting people. Do you have any idea just how many games were on the Filefront network? I'd say at least 30 or more. There were around 250+ files for each KotOR game, so multiply that by 30 (even more for games like Jedi Outcast or Battlefront). Since they're dead-set on it being a time-related job, they didn't see themselves having the time or the effort to research the author/email of every file they pulled. (nevermind how easy a regex or database lookup would have been)

 

They don't have to make the mods public on their website in order to preserve the files. They don't have to release them all at once under a dummy account rather than putting the absolute least effort possible in attempting to contact and properly credit any of the authors at all.

[Sithspecter 909]

@JC and SS: I can see how it happened and they didn't try contacting people. Do you have any idea just how many games were on the Filefront network? I'd say at least 30 or more. There were around 250+ files for each KotOR game, so multiply that by 30 (even more for games like Jedi Outcast or Battlefront). Since they're dead-set on it being a time-related job, they didn't see themselves having the time or the effort to research the author/email of every file they pulled. (nevermind how easy a regex or database lookup would have been)

 

Easy enough to say when they didn't take your mods.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Easy enough to say when they didn't take your mods.

I could not find any of my mods either

[Malkior 476]

They don't have to make the mods public on their website in order to preserve the files. They don't have to release them all at once under a dummy account rather than putting the absolute least effort possible in attempting to contact and properly credit any of the authors at all.

I believe according to the language in the official post that this is specifically a method to create an easier way for people to have access to the files as mods. While I can't vouch for it not carrying an ulterior motive, it was the planned to be a way to expose the truly obscure mods to users who have likely never heard of them.

 

As far as I can see, it's a far-cry from the outright arrogance we saw on the Steam Workshop, where only the most popular mods were being uploaded by one user who after repeated attempts to make them stop rudely refused to do so.

 

If they get hostile about removing them, well, that could be a problem...

[xander2077 80]

From the old policy pages on GameFront, there are several loop holes that made this possible from a legal perspective and in short, GameFront basically had to give consent without specific user consent for this to even occur.

 

But as far as I can tell the average user did not even understand the policy change let alone protest at the right time, which would have been when they enacted the new policies, and as such, a user's continued use, and lack of protest at that time was consent in their eyes. So be mad at FileFront/GameFront.

 

GAMEFRONT ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY

Last Updated: October 1, 2012

This acceptable use policy (the “AUP”), together with the Terms of Service (/tos/), provide important information about your use of our GameFront website or any of the products or services offered on the site (collectively, the “GameFront Service”), including the GameFront Unlimited Free Storage service.

We reserve the right, in our discretion, to change or modify all or any part of this AUP at any time, effective immediately upon notice published on the GameFront Service. Your continued use of the GameFront Service constitutes your binding acceptance of these terms and conditions, including any changes or modifications. Please be sure to review this AUP periodically to ensure familiarity with the most current version. If at any time the terms and conditions of this AUP are no longer acceptable to you, you should immediately cease all use of the GameFront Service.

 

Transfer of Business Assets.

The personal information you provide is considered a company asset and may be included among transferred assets if the Site, we, or parent(s) or any or all of Affiliates or any of our assets are ever acquired by a third party.

Changes to this Policy.

Because our business needs may change over time, we reserve the right, at our discretion, to change, modify, add, or remove portions from this policy at any time. If at any time in the future we plan to use your personal information in a way that differs from this policy, we will revise this policy as appropriate. Your continued use of the Site following the posting of any changes to this policy means you accept such changes. This policy is effective as of 1/1/2014

 

As well as this, but only a partial post of the original policy changes is available in the linked forum topic: and I am sure there was similar language in that policy announcement.

 

https://forums.beyondunreal.com/threads/gamefront-file-storing-policy-changed.198647/

 

So leaving mods hosted there and not removing them at the appropriate time (2-4 years ago) made them free game and continuing use of the site allowed them to do whatever they wanted with files, and descriptions of those files, which can fall under the personal information loophole posted on the site. By relinquishing the mods to nexus, they were fully within bounds according to their policy announcements, and users consented by lack of protest or continued use of the site after they announced their policy changes repeatedly. This not only allowed them to move files to archive.org, but wherever they chose to.

 

This would not even have been facilitated unless what remained of GameFront was helping make it happen, and it was researched by their lawyers and in conjunction with that, some legal maneuvering was done within conversation with nexus staff prior to them handing over possession of the files to nexus. That had to happen before this ever started.

 

Now since nexus is complying with user requests to delete mods, that they actually legally acquired from GameFront, it proves they are willing to do the right/moral thing in spite of the fact they could deny those requests legally. They don’t necessarily have to comply but they are. Plus I get the feeling that former GameFront staff wanted a better solution than archive.org, which has no provisions for modders rights, and is not exactly the best way to present such files or user protections. So there is a silver lining to all this. These mods are actually in better hands than GameFront who turned their policies against modders rights toward the end.

 

Legal does not mean its right or even moral, but it is legal.

 

So why even post the description? Can you think of a better more transparent way to ensure the proper people are credited or keep track of who authored a mod? Seems like a solid system of keeping track of that, and I cannot think of a better way to do it. But of course I bet the same people complaining about that would complain if there were no credits posted at all. They are putting all these files out in the open so you can be involved in the process completely, and it streamlines the process because people who really want them down can easily do a search and find their mods by using a key word search of words in the description, so they can specifically request its removal. I would be more worried if they were not being up front. Plus, the user name is simply a placeholder, and when the proper author is found it can be moved to their nexus account easily enough by admins. But there has to be some kind of user name used to upload them for people to even find out they exist, and there has to be some kind of accountability. So they posted the original description to make sure the mod authors were identified properly. Otherwise how would you know they had your files? They want you to be involved in this whether good or bad. That should be a relief. There is also incentive for them to take down mods since it frees up room on their servers, so of course they will comply. There is no need to ask them expecting a fight. They are taking the high road whether you guys see it or not, contrary to how GameFront was handling things.

 

Anyway, I have made my point, and really don’t have much else to say on the subject. It sucks, but not much can be done. Such are the pitfalls of uploading on the internet. Beware.

[Malkior 476]

Wow. That paints a surprisingly vivid picture that they knew full well how this was going to go down. Well, I really appreciate you digging that documentation up as well as translating the fine print for those like myself who don't understand the exact meaning of the legal documentation, Xander2077.

 

It also goes to show that you really should read as much as you can of the "revised codes of conduct" companies will send from time to time.

[JCarter426 1,216]

On 5/31/2016 at 11:12 AM, xander2077 said:

But as far as I can tell the average user did not even understand the policy change let alone protest at the right time, which would have been when they enacted the new policies, and as such, a user's continued use, and lack of protest at that time was consent in their eyes. So be mad at FileFront/GameFront.

 

 

 

As well as this, but only a partial post of the original policy changes is available in the linked forum topic: and I am sure there was similar language in that policy announcement.

 

https://forums.beyondunreal.com/threads/gamefront-file-storing-policy-changed.198647/

 

So leaving mods hosted there and not removing them at the appropriate time (2-4 years ago) made them free game and continuing use of the site allowed them to do whatever they wanted with files, and descriptions of those files, which can fall under the personal information loophole posted on the site.

 

User content does not count as "personal information". The terms of service had a whole section covering user content and it affirms that user content was always the intellectual property of the user:

 

Quote

 

(D) From time to time, the Site may, at its sole discretion, allow End User to submit certain content including, but not limited to, photos, messages, notes, text, information, music, video, advertisements, listings, or other content (collectively, “User Content”) and make available such User Content on the Site. End User understands that, regardless of whether or not such User Content is published or otherwise made available on the Site, DEFY MEDIA in no way guarantees any confidentiality with respect to any User Content.

End User is solely responsible for any User Content that End User End uploads, transmits, shares, publishes or displays (collectively and hereinafter, “Post”) on or through the Site, or transmits to or shares with other End Users. End User is and shall be at all times solely responsible for its own User Content and the consequences of Posting such User Content and affirms, represents, and warrants that End User owns, or has the necessary licenses, rights, consents, and permissions to use and authorize DEFY MEDIA to use, all patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or any other proprietary rights in and to any and all User Content to enable inclusion and use of the User Content in any manner contemplated by DEFY MEDIA and these Terms of Use. End User may not Post User Content on the Site that End User did not create or that End User does not have permission to Post. End User understands and agrees that DEFY MEDIA may, but is in no way obligated to, review the Site and/or any User Content and may delete or remove (without notice) any User Content in its sole discretion, for any reason or no reason, including User Content that in the sole judgment of DEFY MEDIA violates this Terms or Use, or which might be considered offensive, illegal, or that might violate the rights, harm, or threaten the safety of users or others. End User is solely responsible, at End User sole cost and expense, for creating any backup copies or replacing any User Content End User Posts on the Site.

In posting User Content to the Site, End User authorizes and directs DEFY MEDIA to make such copies thereof as it deems necessary in order to facilitate the Posting and storage of the User Content on the Site and End User automatically grants, and End User represents and warrants that End User has the right to grant, to DEFY MEDIA an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, royalty-free worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing. End User may remove User Content from the Site at any time; however, End User expressly acknowledges that DEFY MEDIA may retain archived copies of User Content. The Site does not assert any ownership over such User Content; rather, as between DEFY MEDIA and End User, subject to the rights granted to DEFY MEDIA in these Terms of Use, End User retains full ownership of all of User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with User Content.

End User further agree that End User will not submit material that is copyrighted, protected by trade secret or otherwise subject to third party proprietary rights, including privacy and publicity rights, unless End User is the owner of such rights or has permission from their rightful owner to post the material and to grant the Site all of the license rights granted herein.

End User understands and agrees that the Site does not endorse any User Content or any opinion, recommendation, or advice expressed therein, and the Site expressly disclaims any and all liability in connection with User Content.

 

It stipulates that the site is free to maintain and distribute copies according to the needs of the site's function (since that's how hosting works) but they claim no ownership of the files and include provisions for removal of files.

 

They have since shut down the site, so all this agreement is effectively terminated. It does not apply to Nexus or any other site.

 

On 5/31/2016 at 11:12 AM, xander2077 said:

By relinquishing the mods to nexus, they were fully within bounds according to their policy announcements, and users consented by lack of protest or continued use of the site after they announced their policy changes repeatedly. This not only allowed them to move files to archive.org, but wherever they chose to.

 

This would not even have been facilitated unless what remained of GameFront was helping make it happen, and it was researched by their lawyers and in conjunction with that, some legal maneuvering was done within conversation with nexus staff prior to them handing over possession of the files to nexus. That had to happen before this ever started.

 

GameFront has nothing to do with where the files are going now. They shut down their site and are no longer hosting the files. But they gave a warning before the shutdown so users could get what they wanted before time ran out. So some people in the modding community used the Internet Archive and other means to create a backup - just copies of the Filefront webpages as they originally appeared, as if the site were still hosted.

 

The Nexus staff then took the files from these backups and began hosting them on their own site, without seeking permission - or even any form of communication at all.

 

On 5/30/2016 at 10:04 PM, Malkior said:

I believe according to the language in the official post that this is specifically a method to create an easier way for people to have access to the files as mods. While I can't vouch for it not carrying an ulterior motive, it was the planned to be a way to expose the truly obscure mods to users who have likely never heard of them.

 

So, it's all right because it was their plan to unilaterally ignore everyone's intellectual rights from the beginning. The problem I have is that they're not just preserving the files. The mods were actually already saved and are in no danger of being lost. They may be more difficult to find for the average user, but they are there, in their original state, the state everybody agreed to. This was the most that had to be done to save the content from being lost, and it was the most that could be done while still respecting the rights of everyone involved.

 

Nexus, on the other hand, has chosen to take these files and integrate them into their website structure. These stolen mods appear alongside other mods as if they were uploaded legitimately. They're being allowed to get away with this because they claim to be doing this for the greater good of saving these mods. And the users of their site praise them for this because to them, to the users of Nexus that don't frequent Deadly Stream or JKHub or the other respective communities, Nexus is their savior, because their disregard for intellectual property allows their hosting to be more public and convenient.

 

But I don't know these users on Nexus. And they don't know me. There has never been any interaction between us. I don't upload mods there because I upload them here and on LucasForums, where the KOTOR modding community is active (to a degree). If you take content I created and distribute it on a site I don't use to people don't know, without involving me at all, it feels like you're going behind my back. That's what bothers me. The interaction is cut. I'm never going to hear what they think of my mods and the only mods of mine they ever get to see are the ones that happen to have been stolen - which in this case, are from years ago, some bugs and lacking the updates I've already done. And that's not fair to either side. It's that interaction that keeps the modding community alive.

[Malkior 476]

Hmm.. I'm starting to get the feeling I have no idea what that fine-print truly means.. At first, it sounds like the user content is explicitly multimedia and has nothing to do with game assets, but then there is talk of legally having the right to possess user content, as if it is in-fact relating to game assets and files...

 

Well, regardless I can at least partially understand your outrage at them uploading everything carte blanche, instead of sending out a bunch of requests.

 

Hopefully they are at least amicable for those of us who hope to retain our property.

 

 

As far as "Nexus Users", I joined a while back so I could mod/play things like Fallout. It seems to be a reasonable enough community, and the current moderators seem at least on the surface to value transparency and fairness.

 

Bear in mind, my communications have been limited with them until recently, but from the offset, the users are far more knowledgeable than other sites, and in general are less whiny and demanding than on *other

I mean Steam Workshop

sites.

[masaru93 0]

When I read this, I turned around and went to Nexus, and sure enough, my old Bendak mod is in plain view, in both versions I uploaded to KOTOR Files some seven years ago.

I'm an amateur myself...that was one mod I released before I had even graduated high school, and I never really got seasoned in modding, nothing I added was really that new conceptually (someone else made a "Give The Player Bendak's Armor" on PCGameMods before it's fall, and I tried my own spin to integrate it into the narrative in a minor way), so as I sit here I only find myself mildly annoyed. However when I turn around and think about the time I actually spent putting it together (especially when I colored the suit for the second release), then turn around and think about the large packs, textures and models, assorted environments that other people have made? ...I'd probably be a lot more pissed. To that end, I certainly understand the sentiment about permissions.

 

I better go take ownership of that while I'm at it. If they're gonna post it, I at least want it under my control. Did they resolve your e-mail yet, SS?

[Sithspecter 909]

I better go take ownership of that while I'm at it. If they're gonna post it, I at least want it under my control. Did they resolve your e-mail yet, SS?

 

They have responded, and given me control of the files, but failed to answer any of my questions.

 

Hi there, thank you for reaching out.

 

All of the files you requested have been transferred to your ownership. In fact, I'm very happy to reunite all of the archived files these files with their rightful owners.

 

If you would like to learn more about the motivations behind the File Front archiving effort, please read this article:

http://www.nexusmods.com/games/news/12810/?

 

I hope this helps alleviate some of your concerns. I'll be happy to discuss this further if you'd like.

 

Thank you very much for your understanding and support.

 

Dave "SirSalami" Talamas

Community Manager

http://nexusmods.com

 

 

My response:

Thank you for quickly transferring the files to me.

 

I have already read the article posted on Nexus, and while I can understand the desire to preserve mods from a site that has recently gone down, I think a better course of action would have been to collect the files, file structure, screenshots, etc, and then at least make an attempt to contact authors before uploading them all. I'm very familiar with FileFront, and as an active member of the KotOR modding community for almost a decade, this kind of thing has happened before. PCGameMods went down, FileFront has been under threat of going belly up several times. We make do without violating authors' rights. Most specifically, we have extensive Mod Request threads on both our main hubs (DeadlyStream and LucasForums). They've been going on successfully for years.

 

I am an active and contributing member to Nexus. I released a large mod within the last month, and several more over the past year. There is a reason why I didn't upload any additional older files to Nexus: they aren't up to my current standards. Some of them are downright awful, don't make sense, and are bugged. For instance, my first mod, "World War II New Area Beta," was bad enough to begin with. I was glad it went down with KotOR Files, or so I thought. But now it's been resurrected. And it doesn't even have the right file! The file links to a totally different mod.

 

This is going to be a huge problem for the KotOR community. Folks are going to download these old, obscure mods and try to install them along with newer mods that utilize TSLPatcher, a compatibility tool.  There are going to be large compatibility issues, and the original authors aren't around in most cases to provide support or updates. People will end up with very bugged games, especially with KotOR I Restoration.

 

Another concern is now that a precedent has been set for uploading content that one does not have permission to upload. I posed the question in my previous mail, but I will ask it again:

 

"So now when I upload mods, can I include content created by others who have not allowed me to use it? I'll include a clause that says if they happen to notice it that I'll turn it over to them."

 

And if the answer is "no", why is that? Because now a majority of mods in the KotOR section are wrongly uploaded without permission. If the staff can do it, why can't users? It's already been done, why can't I do it?

 

And if the answer is "yes", then who is going to protect the rights of mod authors? Is any content that I upload "free game" for the taking?

 

As I've said, I'm an active member and contributing member of Nexus. I have contributed files with thousands of downloads, and tens of thousands of views. I'm sure Nexus has gotten some amount of ad revenue from my mods. I like Nexus! It's a professional site with a good structure and lots of traffic. But this move to violate authors' rights has me thinking that I might remove my mods altogether, new and old, and take them somewhere safer.

 

I'm very interested to hear more on this issue.

 

-Sithspecter

 

The biggest issue for me is that the precedent has been set for uploading files that aren't yours. If the staff have done it, then it's free game now. Upload whatever you want to Nexus! As I said, they're going to have a tough time answering the question, "So now when I upload mods, can I include content created by others who have not allowed me to use it? I'll include a clause that says if they happen to notice it that I'll turn it over to them." 

 

One answer is rife with hypocrisy, and the other is a total and complete violation of intellectual property.

[Blue 68]

Hey guys just wanted to throw my 2 cents into the conversation.

 

What is the purpose of modding in the first place?

 

For me the purpose has always been to share something useful with others who share my passion for KOTOR that it may in the end help or make someone happy.

 

The stance of intellectual property seems to be a shaky one to me as the basis of all of our mods is that of LucasArts & BioWare's original intellectual property, and without the original intellectual property it would be worthless. Now i'm not saying modders don't have the right to their mods or to have done with them as they see fit. I just think it's a little silly to be so uptight about something that in the end is just a mod... for a game... 

 

Even then I don't remember Bioware or LucasArts giving explicit permission to the community to handle their game in this way. It was always the common conception that they would leave us alone as long as our mods were not of a commercial nature or of a pirated nature.

 

On the matter of stolen content:

 

I'm not sure if this was added to the mod listings after this all started. If you were going to steal something I don't think you would put this on your ransom note.

 

 

 

This file has been archived from File Front which shut down on April 30th, 2016 and would otherwise have been lost forever.

With help from the archiveteam.org and some former staff from File Front we have retained this file for prosperity. If you wish to claim this file as your own, or have any concerns - please email fileissues@nexusmods.com.

 

From what I can see they have been willing to comply with this statement and have done so with at least SithSpector's mods. No harm no foul I say.

 

If they wanted to steal away the credit and accomplishments of the mod authors I would be just as upset as some of you. Seeing as their efforts seem to be in good faith and not to achieve malicious ends I think it's more than ok to give them some time to make sure everyone's concerns are heard and given a chance to be met.

 

With that said I feel it is very immature and down right childish to take such a vicious stance against a team who seems to want to do something for the good of the modding community as a whole.

 

The thing is a lot of these mods were made by people who no longer maintain or even care about their mods anymore. It seems crazy to hold up something like this so that every last modder can be contacted even if for some that would be almost impossible.

 

I'm not sure why Archive.org is getting a pass from people when their content was uploaded to their servers without permission as well. I think we could all benefit if we were more open to mods being on as many decent hosts as possible so that this sort of mass archiving isn't needed in the future.

 

I'm also very disturbed by some of the emails I see in this thread as they seem to be written in a nasty way to the guys over at Nexus as the opening line of dialog. When there was no proof of malicious actions to begin with. If you want people to be respectful of you then the proper way would be to politely let them know of your concerns or intentions and if they refused then it would warrant something more hostile.

[djh269 264]

I personally don't think the authors of said mods would want to cause friction, especially within the Kotor modding community. 

 

This is a meerkat:

 

[Haveayap 127]

I will say what I have said previously, As long as they give the OG creator credit for the mods, there is no harm done and if the OG creator does not want there od up on nexus mods, than they should remove it...

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

A suggestion: Let's table this conversation until someone from NexusMods answers back - or at least answers one of the folks that have sent them email raising the subjects that were brought to their attention.  We're only hearing one side of the conversation.  It would be best to assign the motivation behind their actions rather than folks don't work for Nexus.  At least that's what I say about it right now.

[redrob41 86]

I only just found out about this today. So far I've only found some of my K1 mods that were uploaded to FileFront before Break media took over. All of my mods that were uploaded after Break were always hard to view the web pages for (I constantly had to refresh the page until it loaded), so I assumed that they were hosted on a different set of servers. This could be why some of my mods are now on Nexus, but not all of them (so far).

 

I've never used Nexus mods before (uploading or downloading) even though I've had and account there since 2010 (apparently). I've just sent an e-mail to claim my mods and I haven't asked that they be taken down just yet. I miss having FileFront host my mods, so I'm going to give Nexus a chance. The way they handled this might not have been ideal, since I need to know where my mods are being hosted (in order to post updates) and I only found out about this by luck. At first if feels like they have taken control away from me (by just going ahead and hosting without a modders' knowledge or choice), but if I can gain that control back and claim them, then it might be worthwhile.

 

I can certainly understand how it stings of violation, by them taking without asking. I'll wait for them to reply to my e-mail.

[xander2077 80]

 

Hi Xander,

 

So far the response to our work has been resoundingly positive. We've received literally hundreds of messages of support from the community, including over 50 mod authors who've thanked us for saving their work, several of whom have asked us to transfer the ownership of their accounts over with no fuss. It's been an overall positive experience for us on what we understand can be a contentious issue. Some mod authors have even been ecstatic as they'd lost the files they'd made when File Front went down and didn't have a copy on their HDDs any more.

 

A small handful of mod authors have expressed resentment or a dislike to the idea, and we've been happy to remove their files at their request. That's not me trying to blow off those mod authors who've been upset, but rather, we've only received one single email from a very unhappy mod author who didn't like how we'd done things (and that's not an exaggeration...one email) and another message via support ticket from a user who wasn't upset, but still wanted his mods taken down. Compared to the number of mod authors (and not forgetting the mod users) who've been more than happy with how this backup has gone, we think it's worked out well.

 

The reason there was an initial rush was due to the fact File Front is/was extremely different to Game Front. The File Front static image server (e.g. the server that still contained the file images) was still online until the end of April, but after that, we'd have lost all the file images as no single site (even archive.org) has an exact backup of all those file images. That meant we had about 2 weeks from Game Front announcing they were shutting down to write a backup script that would save all those (hundreds and thousands of) images and properly parsed File Front descriptions.

 

As you're probably aware, Game Front doesn't have any file images attached to file pages. File pages without images are a lot less useful to mod users, so it was extremely important we worked quickly to save those file images before those images went down. As far as I know, we are the only people to have attempted to try and save/backup the important File Front data, rather than the less than satisfactory and far less useful Game Front data.

 

We're happy to remove any authors work who wants it removed. All they need to do is contact me here or email the address in the news post (we provided an email for those people who didn't have a Nexus account as it seemed rude to force people to make an account in order to contact us) and we'll do it quickly. Likely within 24 hours.

 

So yes they  had a two week window to salvage the original filefront data.

[Sithspecter 909]

So yes they  had a two week window to salvage the original filefront data.

 

That means they had to back them up within two weeks, not publish all of them.

 

So far, it seems that the feedback from the people who have had mods transferred to Nexus (RedRob, JCarter, and myself) feel neutral to negatively about it. Of course, user feedback is overwhelmingly positive.

 

Here is the response to my email:

 

The main objective of this project was to backup and ensure that whatever was on File Front before it went down is still available now.

 

We acknowledge that there are other attempts to archive Game Front, but no one has archived File Front fully or properly, not even, Archive.org. As such, we've spent a lot of time working on a way we can save not only the files from Game Front, but importantly the images, file descriptions and author information that made File Front so different from Game Front. While Archive.org has archived some of File Front, it is not a complete archive. Not by a long shot. It's missing tens of thousands of images and none of the files are downloadable.

 

When Game Front announced they were closing in the middle of April we had a choice. While some mod authors are still active and have shared their work on other sites since the fall of File Front, the modding community was still faced with losing tens of thousands of files, forever. We could either stand around and do nothing, or we could work hard to do something about it and preserve those files for the future.

 

I understand your concerns over modder's rights. However, we decided to make a judgement call between the concept of modder's rights on games way past their prime, and the loss of tens of thousands of mods, and ruled in favour of preservation in this circumstance.  Based on the feedback from both users, and more importantly authors, we feel confident that we've made the appropriate choices. We have had a lot more mod authors thank us for saving their work than we have had complaints or requests to remove work. It's certainly been received favourably by the majority thus far even by mod authors.

 

That said, your concerns regarding file requirements, organization, etc. are indeed something I’d like to remedy. However, I am not personally versed in KOTOR modding, so I'd be happy to hear from those who are, such as yourself, so we can make changes that would be beneficial for users of these files.

 

I know this may or may not have fallen into either of the two answers you had predisposed for your question, but I hope this at least provides you with some useful insight. I'd be happy to hear about how we can help better organize these files if that is something you'd be interested in discussing. Again, thank you.

 

Dave "SirSalami" Talamas

Community Manager

http://nexusmods.com

 

 

I'm going to try to be more positive in my response, explain where the community gets its roots in being protective of rights, and offer assistance in trying to contact some of the original authors.

[Box 8]

I'm obviously not the oldest or most accomplished member of the community, but I feel obligated to make my position known more for the sake of others who may share it.

 

I'm disappointed that we seem to have this problem of being suspicious of other modding communities. It makes us look tribal and it makes me embarrassed. We should all be on the same side here. I would also ask everyone to think about the current culture of no and how it affects people other than yourself, particularly how it affects consumers of mods who aren't members of deadlystream or similar fan websites.

[Sithspecter 909]

I think the most positive thing that will come from this is that MilesTails will get a well-deserved break.

[Sith Holocron 2,479]

I think the most positive thing that will come from this is that MilesTails will get a well-deserved break.

Hear, hear!

[Sithspecter 909]

Okay, it seems like most people aren't understanding where some of the authors are coming from in our disgruntlement. Xander and Box, for example, haven't been around as long as some of us old timers.

 

Way way back, before there was Sithspecter, there was PCGameMods. PCGameMods was one of the largest file hosting sites, and had many, many popular mods hosted exclusively there. Sometime in 2006, PCGameMods shut down, losing many KotOR Mods. The community survived. People made a mods request thread, and the mods were passed happily around.

 

When I arrived at Lucas Forums on January 3, 2008, modding was a big and happening thing. There were new modders every week, TSLRP was promising, Quanon had just released the first ever brand new area, and it seemed like anything was possible. Huge projects rose and fell, WIP threads were booming, and the community was vibrant. Community rules were strictly enforced. Very strictly. It was fun!

 

Then, in June of 2008, TSLRP was leaked. The community was split. Some applauded the decision to leak the unfinished mod, others saw it as a downright immoral violation. In any case, the unfinished mod was out there, now out of the control of the modders. I don't know enough about TSLRP to know if they would have had a chance had the mod not been leaked, but it certainly hurt any chance they had left. As you well know, TSLRP was never finished. TSLRCM eventually rose to take its place, some years later. Could there have been a finished TSLRP had the mod not been leaked? Maybe, but now we will never know. This isn't a criticism of TSLRCM, they did an outstanding job. In any case, the community survived. People played the bugged version, but it wasn't so great. People made more mods, and some people worked on their own TSL restoration...

 

Then, in March of 2009, File Front threatened to shut down. It was a time of panic in the KotOR community. Folks frantically downloaded the mods, screenshots, and descriptions to try to preserve the mods. They didn't upload them, mind you, because that was not the way we did things. Fortunately, KotOR Files did not go down at that time. The modding community breathed a sigh of relief, and then went on. People made more mods. Some people began to think of another website not in danger of shutting down...

 

Then, in August of 2010, Deadly Stream came to life. The transition was slow, as most people were familiar with KotOR Files and Lucas Forums. Some made the leap faster than others. I was unceremoniously slow to this party, placing my faith in the larger but slowing Lucas Forums. However, a few visionaries saw the eventual closing of File Front and made a place where KotOR mods would be safe for years to come. Many modders began to release their mods here as well. Others chose not to. The community survived. People made more mods.

 

Later, in 2012, there was another File Front scare. KotOR Files was under threat of going down again. Once again, folks frantically downloaded the mods, screenshots, and descriptions to try to preserve the mods. They didn't upload them, mind you, because that was not the way we did things. Fortunately, KotOR Files did not go down at that time either. The modding community breathed a very nervous sigh of relief, and then went on. People made more mods, but not as many. KotOR Files became a broken skeleton of what it once was, and more and more people came to Deadly Stream.

 

Finally, in 2015, FileFront went down. GameFront archived most of the files, which finally spelled an end for the dying KotOR Files. People could still get the files, but it wasn't the same. It was just a matter of time until they were gone. Once again, folks frantically downloaded the mods, to try and preserve them. They didn't upload them, mind you, because that was not the way we did things. But, people made more mods. The community was actually regaining popularity!

 

Then, in 2016, GameFront announced its closure. This was going to be the death of the tattered remains of KotOR Files. Once again, folks frantically downloaded the mods to try to preserve them. But, this time a group of people from Nexus decided to upload them without permission, despite that not being the way we do things. In a very similar situation as the 2008 leak of TSLRP, the community is now divided. Many users believe Nexus to be the savior of File Front. On the other hand, a number of modders feel as if their rights have been violated.

 

It didn't have to be this way. If Nexus had taken the time to try to contact authors or even just the communities that make up the fan bases for each of the games, it would have been a step in the right direction. I'm not saying they should have sat by and watched the File Front ship sink. I'm saying if they are going to do something, to do it right. Do it properly.

 

I had over a dozen mods at KotOR Files. That was where I downloaded many of the mods that got me into modding. But the most important thing through all of this wasn't the files, it was the people. Through modding, I have been able to interact with many folks from across the globe in a unique and special way. Some became my good friends over time. Many have moved on over the years, and are no longer active. But a mass dump of all their files doesn't quite feel like a tribute to them. I feel like my friends and their wishes are being ignored by a large site, whatever their motivation may be. I know how important authors' rights have been in this community for over a decade, so please understand that this issue runs very deep.

 

I'm going to do what I can to contact original authors so they can regain control over their mods. I still don't agree with the decision to upload without consent and without trying to make contact, but I'll see what I can do to fix some of this mess now that I have Nexus' attention.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Might I add that it's incredibly inconvenient for me to have to search Nexus for my mods and then specifically ask for them to be removed.

 

I suppose it is that way by design though.

[Blue 68]

Okay, it seems like most people aren't understanding where some of the authors are coming from in our disgruntlement. Xander and Box, for example, haven't been around as long as some of us old timers.

 

...

 

Finally, in 2015, FileFront went down. GameFront archived most of the files, which finally spelled an end for the dying KotOR Files. People could still get the files, but it wasn't the same. It was just a matter of time until they were gone. Once again, folks frantically downloaded the mods, to try and preserve them. They didn't upload them, mind you, because that was not the way we did things. But, people made more mods. The community was actually regaining popularity!

 

Then, in 2016, GameFront announced its closure. This was going to be the death of the tattered remains of KotOR Files. Once again, folks frantically downloaded the mods to try to preserve them. But, this time a group of people from Nexus decided to upload them without permission, despite that not being the way we do things. In a very similar situation as the 2008 leak of TSLRP, the community is now divided. Many users believe Nexus to be the savior of File Front. On the other hand, a number of modders feel as if their rights have been violated.

 

It didn't have to be this way. If Nexus had taken the time to try to contact authors or even just the communities that make up the fan bases for each of the games, it would have been a step in the right direction. I'm not saying they should have sat by and watched the File Front ship sink. I'm saying if they are going to do something, to do it right. Do it properly.

 

I had over a dozen mods at KotOR Files. That was where I downloaded many of the mods that got me into modding. But the most important thing through all of this wasn't the files, it was the people. Through modding, I have been able to interact with many folks from across the globe in a unique and special way. Some became my good friends over time. Many have moved on over the years, and are no longer active. But a mass dump of all their files doesn't quite feel like a tribute to them. I feel like my friends and their wishes are being ignored by a large site, whatever their motivation may be. I know how important authors' rights have been in this community for over a decade, so please understand that this issue runs very deep.

 

I'm going to do what I can to contact original authors so they can regain control over their mods. I still don't agree with the decision to upload without consent and without trying to make contact, but I'll see what I can do to fix some of this mess now that I have Nexus' attention.

 

Your post here (If i'm understanding it correctly) seems to be defending your right to not have your mod uploaded to another platform. Fine I get that. I'm not sure anyone else in this thread has stated otherwise. For me I'm just pushing back against this bring out the pitch forks and skewer those horrible people at Nexus for daring to try and do their part in preserving the hard works of others. You may not like or agree with how they went about it (Which I think you have made evidently clear in your many posts on this thread). But they are still honoring the wishes of the mod owners I don't see why there is still so much flack when mod owners are still getting what they want in the end. If they were ignoring your requests I could see the hostility as warranted.

 

So why not take the approach of working with them to find a peaceful solution before crying out in the streets that they have stolen you intellectual property? I still do not see what all the fuss is about. Nexus is a solid platform that many people trust in. I've never used it for anything other than some Dragon Age mods because it didn't have meaningful support for KotOR games.

 

I don't see how you can proclaim it as a mess when only a few people have spoken up negatively about it.

 

And you still haven't answered my question as to how this is any different from Archive.org. It's still on another server that you didn't consent to and by the way you don't have a lick of control if it's on there or not as far as I know.

 

Please don't take me the wrong way either. My intent is not to inflame, I just want to make sure people are being justly represented. 

[Sithspecter 909]

Your post here (If i'm understanding it correctly) seems to be defending your right to not have your mod uploaded to another platform. Fine I get that. I'm not sure anyone else in this thread has stated otherwise. For me I'm just pushing back against this bring out the pitch forks and skewer those horrible people at Nexus for daring to try and do their part in preserving the hard works of others. You may not like or agree with how they went about it (Which I think you have made evidently clear in your many posts on this thread). But they are still honoring the wishes of the mod owners I don't see why there is still so much flack when mod owners are still getting what they want in the end. If they were ignoring your requests I could see the hostility as warranted.

 

Once again, we keep going round and round with this: Preservation Does Not Require Immediate Publication. I'm not faulting Nexus (I'll get back to Archive in a minute) for working to preserve, but instead their decision to publish quickly with little effort to contact mod authors. This is how I think it could have been handled better:

 

1. Nexus notices Game Front is closing

2. Nexus downloads all the mods, descriptions, screenshots, and structure

3. Nexus announces that they have backed up all the File Front mods

4. Nexus attempts to contact mod authors

5. After a reasonable period of time with no feedback from authors, Nexus publishes the mods.

 

All I'm asking for is a bit of effort to contact original mod authors. Take me, for example. I'm already on Nexus. I'm an active and contributing member. If they wanted to know if I would give my permission to upload my old mods, they could have simply dropped me a PM, received a polite "no", and everyone could have gone on their merry way.

 

And frankly, they did ignore my requests. Each of my mods had a specific clause prohibiting uploads to other sites.

 

If Nexus gains advertising revenue from page views, part of their motivation very well could be a modest amount of profit from posting hundreds and hundreds of mods from now classic gains. Their motivations may not be as pure as they seem. That's just speculation, but could very well be the case.

 

 

 

I don't see how you can proclaim it as a mess when only a few people have spoken up negatively about it.

 

Once again, few users have spoken negatively about it. The problem is that now the whole thing is a bit upside down. You have a flood of old mods that are more "recent" than the newer mods, which is confusing and hurts active members with newer mods. In addition, the categories are all weird now. You have duplicate categories, and it's difficult to navigate.

 

 

And you still haven't answered my question as to how this is any different from Archive.org. It's still on another server that you didn't consent to and by the way you don't have a lick of control if it's on there or not as far as I know.

 

It's more visible. That's the big deal. And possibly the revenue issue. But really it's the same at its core. I think the Archive is now a non-issue though, as I believe Xander has been trying to access links from there but has been unable to, and getting various redirects.

 

 

 

Please don't take me the wrong way either. My intent is not to inflame, I just want to make sure people are being justly represented. 

 

My biggest problem with the Nexus thing is this: I'm an active member there, I contribute to the community. Nexus claims to do everything they can to maintain rights and permissions of the author, but then upload old, embarrassing mods that I was glad went down with the KotOR Files ship. All they had to do was ask.

 

I'm glad some (let's be honest, a lot of the old, old mods were just terrible) of the mods are still available for posterity. I'm glad to see the original screenshots and descriptions. I'm disappointed in their lack of effort to seek the permissions they claim to uphold. That's all.