Making Darth Nihilus a hardcore badass Sith Lord

[ChrisC26 12]

Fair point, however I feel she means balance more so between Dark and Light than anything else. Nihilus' hunger is nearly described more as curse than a power, as it drives him not the other way around.

[coolphoton1234 3]

One need not be able to control it to be an Eldritch Abomination. Mind you, Sion's descriptions are very 'shuggoth with anger issues'.

[dyronl 0]

From a game design perspective, a staged wave style fight is a bit done to death, but certainly an improvement on the current situation.

 

I'm knew to the modding side of these games, but do we have a way to import new animations & or cutscenes?

 

 

An idea I came up with in the Chat while talking to LIliArch and Malkior:

 

"You know, one way to make the Nihilus fight harder would be to make his Force Zombies attack you as you're walking up to Nihilus before the fight (or in the middle of the fight, or at the end).
And buff them. :D"

I completely support idea behind this.

 

Yes, he is weakened by Exile, but the point is that he was weakened enough just to be BEATABLE, not to be a pushover like he is right now.

 

Without weakening Nihilus Exile wouldn't have a slightest chance of opposing him, with that is he is forced into "traditional" combat, but even then he should present an epic challenge.

 

I get the feeling that first idea was that you should face him alone and later they added companions into the fight, but forgot to update him to this new situation (and therefore lack of meaning for sacrifice of Visas), or that this Nihilus was just a placeholder and in the all hurry to finish a game they forgot tho replace him with real one.
(Those are just my crazy theories, but seriously there is something really not done right here..)

 

Anyway, he should be buffed seriously, but please stay clear of bringing zombies in to the fight, it just wouldn't look right. They serve their purpose to look spooky and bring atmosphere on the bridge, making them fight you - would just look ridiculous.
They do not even seem good for draining, after all they look like a dead husks without meaningful life force left in them.

 

Also, did you consider making Nihilus drop Mandalore out of the fight?
A convenient way to do this could be that after Nihilus Force Crushes them all, he falls to the ground and remains laying until the end of the fight, while other Exile and Visas remain standing.

 

He just seemed out of the place there, and frankly story-wise wouldn't be of much help while fighting Nihilus, and he can wake up and join Exile and Visas after those two finish him. Apart of making the fight a bit more challenging , it would be cool alternative place for starting that Visas / Mandalore convo when he gets up.

 

So my ideas are:
1) Buff his stats (of course)
2) Drop Mandalore before the fight by Nihilus
3) Make him stun Visas and use Death Field at you two at some some phases of the fight

 

So, what do you think?

I like the zombies getting in on the action, but rather than taking out Visas and Mandalore, I think a stronger choice would be to put a strong debuff on them (plauge style, but a long enough charge to last forever, removed after fight ends via script) then have Nihlus draining everyone sans exile in the room the whole fight. That allows the player with a set of challenges, plus an opportunity to strategize a bit, perhaps make some difficult choices, with friendly fire being a real option.

 

It changes the whole atmosphere of the fight into something tense and desperate instead of spooy and then meh.

[Malkior 476]

Just an idea, but what about his force Zombies themselves being able to drain FP for a different strategy of prioritizing them if you rely on Force Powers.. :]

 

It could support the notion that they feed on your force energy, while also changing up the cliche "weaker goon with boss" nature of the fight.

[90SK 159]

Ah yes, Nihilus is great territory for expansion.

 

Maybe using the Mandalore's armor short circuiting part before the final area to get to the bridge?

And then he comes in later on the com after Nihilus is dead and whatever ("What are you doing??" etc) That way its more intimate, just you Nihilus and Visas. That also cuts out the whole part with the armor explosion after nihilus is dead, and gives more attention to that dark side smoke. TSLRCM Nihilusvfight was always really cool with the added effects. Also different music, maybe the Nihilus theme with something suitable mixed in.

New effect for Nihilus' signature drain instead of the detached light orb and lightning would also be really cool. Either that or just removing the drain effect part, it was so bad in the original when he falls and he's force draining out his personal bubble.

Cutscene off the bridge, show the Exile walking away with Nihilus zombies dropping here and there.

Cut to the Ravager escape cutscene after that and save the player exiting the Ravager.

 

It needs to be an event instead of a chore. Really all the bells and whistles you can think of would be amazing. 

[Hassat Hunter 571]

* I thought about the Nihilus fight thing. It wouldn't be that hard to set up (just switch the areas battle music). During conversation was rather jarring since it's long and people can skip through a lot. It doesn't really work well with the intermid cutscene however.

 

 

 

Cutscene off the bridge, show the Exile walking away with Nihilus zombies dropping here and there.

* Points at one of his mods*

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Don't know if this is still really active, but I would be against a stat increase. That seems to me like it would just make the fight a bit more tedious, especially for somebody who likes to play with combat set to difficult. Is Nihilus having 500 extra VP or a higher chance of stunning you so that you can do nothing except stand there really a good contribution to the game? I don't think so.

 

That said, the other ideas thrown around in this thread seem like they might be good. Having Mandalore out of the party before the actual fight especially seems like it might be cool, at any rate.

 

IMO. Traya is definitely a Consular. Sion is probably a Guardian. Nihilus is a bit harder to pin so I'd just say he is the more Sentinel type.

 

Undoubtedly irrelevant at this point, but I think a comparison in terms of Marauder, Assassin, and Lord would be more appropriate for the Sith Triumvirate.

[coolphoton1234 3]

Don't know if this is still really active, but I would be against a stat increase. That seems to me like it would just make the fight a bit more tedious, especially for somebody who likes to play with combat set to difficult. Is Nihilus having 500 extra VP or a higher chance of stunning you so that you can do nothing except stand there really a good contribution to the game? I don't think so.

 

That said, the other ideas thrown around in this thread seem like they might be good. Having Mandalore out of the party before the actual fight especially seems like it might be cool, at any rate.

 

 

Undoubtedly irrelevant at this point, but I think a comparison in terms of Marauder, Assassin, and Lord would be more appropriate for the Sith Triumvirate.

depends on which attributes and how much. Add 40pts  to Con and I agree, ad it to Wis or Cha and the fite is much more challenging. I think giving him better gear (even just vanilla would work, with upgrades) would be just about the minimum to make him a 'hardcore' boss. Just don't add the 'lord' presege class to him.

 

on the second point i sort of agree but there really is no assassin, unless you count trayus..

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

Still active yes. Just waiting until I have a plan, a sane scripting solution and some free time.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

depends on which attributes and how much. Add 40pts  to Con and I agree, ad it to Wis or Cha and the fite is much more challenging. I think giving him better gear (even just vanilla would work, with upgrades) would be just about the minimum to make him a 'hardcore' boss. Just don't add the 'lord' presege class to him.

 

on the second point i sort of agree but there really is no assassin, unless you count trayus..

 

I already usually have to do the fight more than once before I succeed (although I'm on Difficult), so I would definitely be more interested in adding a new, interesting layer or two to the fight scene rather than simply increasing the difficulty.

 

I agree about there being no assassin. My point was that assigning Sith lords the titles of different Jedi classes doesn't make the most sense.

[thesagan 0]

The problem with most KOTOR bosses is that they are too alike. Lightsaber battle after lightsaber battle. If you want to make a boss stand out, go for something different. Want to make Nihilus badass? Make him like the emperor on ROTJ. No lightsaber or physical attacks. Force powers only. IMHO a real sith master has little need for trinkets and jedi weapons. He can stop a heart with a stare or fry someone to death with a bolt of lightning.

[ChrisC26 12]

^We see Nihilus showing his superiority like that to some characters already but he's not supposed to be able to treat his metaphorical rival in such a sense. Sidious abusing his power on Luke made some sense cause Luke was still not fully trained and it was needed by the story for Vader to save his son. But regardless of that Vader is able to withstand the Emperor's attack, had Vader been at his peak the Emperor would not have stood a chance if you ask me.

[Haveayap 127]

^We see Nihilus showing his superiority like that to some characters already but he's not supposed to be able to treat his metaphorical rival in such a sense. Sidious abusing his power on Luke made some sense cause Luke was still not fully trained and it was needed by the story for Vader to save his son. But regardless of that Vader is able to withstand the Emperor's attack, had Vader been at his peak the Emperor would not have stood a chance if you ask me.

Sidious only ever used a lightsaber to mock his enemies...  If Sidious used his full power on Luke, luke would have died instantly

[ChrisC26 12]

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from? That would imply that Sidious jokingly lost to Mace Windu and jokingly ran from Yoda? If you're getting that from a EU/Legends story then I guess its true to EU/Legends canon but I'm sorta happy that the EU/Legends is no longer part of the "official" canon because of their excessive "God-ifying" of some characters. AFAIK from the currently established "official" canon, Anakin and Luke (Leia might be tied with Luke?) are by far the two most powerful characters with the Emperor and Yoda behind them.

[Malkior 476]

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from? That would imply that Sidious jokingly lost to Mace Windu and jokingly ran from Yoda? If you're getting that from a EU/Legends story then I guess its true to EU/Legends canon but I'm sorta happy that the EU/Legends is no longer part of the "official" canon because of their excessive "God-ifying" of some characters. AFAIK from the currently established "official" canon, Anakin and Luke (Leia might be tied with Luke?) are by far the two most powerful characters with the Emperor and Yoda behind them.

I would say that the only "godified" characters in the EU are the old Sith masters from when the Old Republic was founded, and thus have a very limited connection to the characters from the movies. Also, in the EU stories, Luke and Leia and the gang are always fighting non-force-using grunt soldiers and military leaders most of the time, so it's a bit shy of "most powerful ever"

 

If you want OP characters, check out the Prequels. (Or the "canon" Old Republic game) In those, the only thing that can kill a Jedi is another Jedi, and the galaxy is destroyed in the process of these conflicts.

 

....

 

But we're getting off-topic here..

 

Nihilis is still a weak-sauce and uncreative fight, compared to his vaunted power described in TSL.

[Haveayap 127]

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from? That would imply that Sidious jokingly lost to Mace Windu and jokingly ran from Yoda? If you're getting that from a EU/Legends story then I guess its true to EU/Legends canon but I'm sorta happy that the EU/Legends is no longer part of the "official" canon because of their excessive "God-ifying" of some characters. AFAIK from the currently established "official" canon, Anakin and Luke (Leia might be tied with Luke?) are by far the two most powerful characters with the Emperor and Yoda behind them.

Well, IMO... Sidious lost to Windu because he knew that the real battle was being fought inside anakin, Mace only realized this when Sidious stated that the fear and anger he felt (That was fueling Maces strength) was not his, but Anakins... Than you know the rest of the story. As for Yoda, he went toe to toe with Yoda but as soon as their lightsabers were gone, Sidious was by far the superior force user (This is all 'official' canon... The movies and the novelizations of them are still canon and besides, even in one of the new books, Sidious' lightning almost split a planet in half and scarred the surface and Vader created a planetary earthquake and almost destroyed the whole planet with the force). As for his duel with Luke, He wanted to make Luke suffer before he killed him, he did not foresee Vader betraying him to save his sons life (with good reason, as Vader had stood beside Sidious in every other situation they have faced)... 

[Jorak Uln 458]

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from? That would imply that Sidious jokingly lost to Mace Windu and jokingly ran from Yoda? If you're getting that from a EU/Legends story then I guess its true to EU/Legends canon but I'm sorta happy that the EU/Legends is no longer part of the "official" canon because of their excessive "God-ifying" of some characters. AFAIK from the currently established "official" canon, Anakin and Luke (Leia might be tied with Luke?) are by far the two most powerful characters with the Emperor and Yoda behind them.

The big misunderstanding here  was the statement from G. Lucas marking Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord not taking the Expanded Universe (Ragnos, Thon, Exar Kun etc.) into account. As he said himself, he doesnt like EU at all.

 

I think this point is important regarding Nihilius/the Old Republic.

 

As i see it, there are quite some similarities to the Tolkien Universe, where the movies illustrate the dangers of the ring war in all kind of ways, while many arts and secrets from the first era where long  forgotten. 

Unlike in the movies, each fraction werent decimised at that time through endless wars and were overproductive in developing in any kind of art. (Sauron was only one of many protagonists, a servant to a greater evil).

 

Now the defining point regarding Star Wars is:

 

- in both Worlds we notice  a clear decline of knowlegde=power over time -> at the beginning millions of Sith/Jedi/Massassi/Mandalorians train, fight in war, developing new force techniques etc.

 

-> at the movies time, only a handful of Jedi/Sith was left, and they werent used to fight for their lifes every day at all.

 

So the answer of the outcome is clear, what happens if 50 people train in an art or thousands in every generation.

 

And thats also part of the fascination of the Old Republic, to unveil these never seen ancient secrets, artifacts, while always have that omni-present haunting feel of disembodied evil (=Nihilius) lurking anywhere following you.

Unlike the movies it doesnt  feel just to chase a guy with bad manners and a lightsaber, but sth. evil beyond.

 

 

Therefore, Nihilus frightening  command of the force (far beyond whats seen in the movies) should be resulting in

 

a) a more terrifiying inscenation at the begin of the fight

b ) a fight with brutal difficulty (Dark Souls!) where you seriously have to consider  sacrificing Visas.

[Haveayap 127]

The big misunderstanding here  was the statement from G. Lucas marking Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord not taking the Expanded Universe (Ragnos, Thon, Exar Kun etc.) into account. As he said himself, he doesnt like EU at all.

 

I think this point is important regarding Nihilius/the Old Republic.

 

As i see it, there are quite some similarities to the Tolkien Universe, where the movies illustrate the dangers of the ring war in all kind of ways, while many arts and secrets from the first era where long  forgotten. 

Unlike in the movies, each fraction werent decimised at that time through endless wars and were overproductive in developing in any kind of art. (Sauron was only one of many protagonists, a servant to a greater evil).

 

Now the defining point regarding Star Wars is:

 

- in both Worlds we notice  a clear decline over time -> at the beginning millions of Sith/Jedi/Massassi/Mandalorians train, fight in war, developing new force techniques etc.

 

-> at the movies time, only a handful of Jedi/Sith was left, and they werent used to fight for their lifes every day at all.

 

So the answer of the outcome is clear, what happens if 50 people train in an art or thousands in every generation.

 

And thats also part of the fascination of the Old Republic, to unveil these never seen ancient secrets, artifacts, while always have that omni-present haunting feel of disembodied evil (=Nihilius) lurking anywhere following you.

Unlike the movies you dont  feel just to chase a guy with bad manners and a lightsaber, but sth. evil beyond.

 

 

Therefore, Nihilus frightening  command of the force (far beyond whats seen in the movies) should be resulting in

 

a) a more terrifiying inscenation at the begin of the fight

b ) a brutal fight with Dark Souls difficulty where you seriously have to consider  sacrificing Visas.

Yes, lets make him op, like almost kills you with two lightning blasts

[DarthRevan101 104]

Maybe Mandalore and Visas' health could be halved as a result of Nihilus' power?

 

Yeah, it would be good if sacrificing Visas had an actual, big effect. Problem is that either way Visas doesn't affect the rest of the game.

[ChrisC26 12]

Well, IMO... Sidious lost to Windu because he knew that the real battle was being fought inside anakin, Mace only realized this when Sidious stated that the fear and anger he felt (That was fueling Maces strength) was not his, but Anakins... Than you know the rest of the story. As for Yoda, he went toe to toe with Yoda but as soon as their lightsabers were gone, Sidious was by far the superior force user (This is all 'official' canon... The movies and the novelizations of them are still canon and besides, even in one of the new books, Sidious' lightning almost split a planet in half and scarred the surface and Vader created a planetary earthquake and almost destroyed the whole planet with the force). As for his duel with Luke, He wanted to make Luke suffer before he killed him, he did not foresee Vader betraying him to save his sons life (with good reason, as Vader had stood beside Sidious in every other situation they have faced)... 

 

In what new book do those two nearly destroy a planet using the Force? I'd like to read the segments, even though I dislike the idea of the Emperor or Vader being able to do that with the Force, it does sounds cool lol.

[Haveayap 127]

its something like lords of the sith or somethung... its canon

[coolphoton1234 3]

Dosen't Sidius almost kill everyone on Corisaunt with force storm after his resurrection?

 

also... the Sith at the very least worked very hard, and were moderately successful, in preserving force techniques for millennia, as illustrated when Darth Bane lernd of the ...mind bomb i think? from a holocron.

[Darth Vader KOTOR 3 0]

Należy dodać nową moc: Czerwone Błyskawice, które zabierałyby graczowi i jego towarzyszom punkty życia i siły przez Dartha Nihiliusa, więc byłby prawie nie do powstrzymania. Barwa światła taka sama jak ta, która zabrała Ravangerowi zwłoki Dartha Nihiliusa. 

[streamplotx 0]

I would participate more than giving out ideas for this mod but the most I would be able to do at this point is buff him on the .UTC