Disciple - how would you have improved the character

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

We've all heard the arguments against Disciple here and a great many other forums. The discussions tend to go along the same lines: he's a Jedi Fan-boy, he's an incompetent Republic spy, that he's so bland that Atton appears edgy next to him, the "love story" seems to present him as a simpering tool, etc.

 

If you had the opportunity to reshape the character to make him more likable, how would you go about it? I'd like to hear what you all have to say.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Hm... I'd like to be useful, but I don't mind him as he is at all.

 

What sort of re-shaping would you have him undergo? can't change the VO's... and he has a role to play in the story...

[MassShadowCreator 10]

i didnt like him, i prefer handmaiden she is so cool

[bead-v 251]

can't change the VO's... and he has a role to play in the story...

I think he meant what you would change on him if you could change anything..

 

And to answer the question: I wouldn't change anything, he seems alright to me. He's far from being my favorite, but I have nothing against him.

[juansaman 10]

I do think he can be improved, but it's hard to find the way to do it. The thing that could have made him be a more important character on the story is the holocron quest.

As told before, you can't change his VO and he has his role on the story. I think the only way to improve him is to create a holocron quest where you have to find the relics with the help of some clues/puzzles and look for comments from the Disciple not used in game in behalf of this quest if exist.

But that's a major project.

[Guest Bob Ta'aar]

If you wanna go as far as to replace him with somebody completely different, I would go with someone kinda a bit like Jolee Bindo ... a Jedi who left the Order long ago, or some other Force-sensitive who never was part of the Order, but came back to Dantoine to learn more about himself and the Force.

I'd definitely change him to another species. Personally I find humans soooo boring, especially in Star Wars, where there are sooo many different interesting species.

[Qlue 10]

I'd like to see him with some interesting back story on why he chose his path. He was dry, but he was also a historian (tends to come with the territory) and he was little more than a shadow in the 'male' version. If he was fleshed out a bit more and brought some of his own skills to the party, he'd be much more interesting.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

If there was something more to his character other than being fairly innocent, I think that it would make him more interesting. If you look at pretty much any other party member (besides droids), they all have some sort of 'dark side' to them. Disciple is the only one that doesn't seem to have that.

[Guest JediExile]

I'd like more background on him, too. I don't remember if it was explained in TSL--it's been a while since he played it. But, why exactly did he want the Exile to train him? Why was he so intent on her being his Master?

 

Also, a little more interaction with the other characters. It seems that he only spoke with Atton and Kreia.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

Interesting points being made here.

 

1) Disciple as Historian: I think it would have been fun to hear some examples in Jedi and Republic history, especially as events cropped up where he could draw parallels. It also may have been amusing to poke holes in his theories on how he thought things happened and how they actually occured. As Scorchy pointed out in his walkthrough how he misinterprets Revan's history for example: A Jedi Fan Boy flunks a history test

 

2) Spies and Dark Sides: I think his work as a Republic spy should have been discovered by the Exile (after Kreia and Atton preferably) if you asked the right questions, had a certain amount of influence, and had a significant amount of points in Awareness. Having exposed him as a spy, then an Exile could either "keep him pure" or corrupt him - explaining how his undercover abilities have been easted working for the Republic.

 

JediExile, I think that the Exile was slated to train Disciple but he never got to receive his training because she followed Revan to war. As many of the other Jedi also went off to war, there weren't enough teachers to give the training. Yep, Dusciple got the shaft. (It would be interesting if he was a bit more angry about that - more dark side stuff to exploit.)

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

(It would be interesting if he was a bit more angry about that - more dark side stuff to exploit.)

 

Exactly my point. He sticks out too much with his 'innocence' routine and even him being a republic spy isn't emphasized enough IMO

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Sounds like you guys just want to replace him with someone different.

 

Hm, I do agree exploring his work as a spy more might be interesting.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Markus Ramikin

[ttlan 18]

This is what I wrote, years ago :

 

Discovery of the Disciple.

Open the library door.

 

Here's ... "THE" Disciple (his real name, Mical).

 

Open a conversation.

 

He is pompous, pedantic, priggish, spreading his "knowledge" from the top of his science with phrases like:

 

• my contemporaries would judge me ...
  
• I am not certain you understand ...
  
• Do you wish me to explain? ...
  
• What else would you like to know? ...
  
• I'm trying to save the Republic ...
  
• I do not know if you are aware ...
  
• I have been trained by some of the best researchers in the Republic
  
• I can apply my knowledge and skills to helping you ...
   
   
  
• When you want to ask him a question with "I have some questions for you," he begins by taking you for a fool, throughout the adventure, with:
   

  Disciple:
  "That is hardly surprising. What do you wish to know? "

   
  
• And he's a little funny, too!
   

  Disciple:
  "and once I arrived, I felt it was necessary to stay, to protect what was left."

   
  Well ... the monk soldier! ... We just loot the entire lower level of the enclave, putting all the artifacts that were lying there in our pockets after massacring the entire local wildlife loudly, blowing up doors and computers, high voices with Jorran and Kaevee, without ajar his door to see what is happening! The young Kaevee, from the top of her 17 years old, does not hesitate to rush in front of us and to reprimand us.
   
   
  
• Even better! He allows himself to judge the Exile, and even better, he judge you worthy of being his master!.
   

  Disciple:
  I have watched you. You have become strong in the Force again - but that is not all. You have achieved a center in the chaos around us, and I have felt it.

   
  
• And the most delicious: gentleman had a destiny!
   

  Disciple:
  I want you to teach me the ways of the Force. To become a Jedi Knight, what I meant to be.

 

It will be understood: I do not like this character.

 

That said, he is a well of knowledge regarding the history of the Jedi Order. Mical will sit, after Kotor 2, at the Jedi Council of the Jedi Order restored.

 

He is also a naive that have been plunged into the potion of honesty from his earliest childhood, this changes us from Darth Traya, aka Kreia, who become a liar and a betrayer out of revenge, using others to achieve her ends (she leads all Kotor 2 in manipulating everyone from beginning to end).

 

When two conversations will be held on the same subject by Mical and Kreia, we will trust Mical and we will listen carefully what Kreia will tell.

 

It should be noted that at one point he said:

 

Disciple

"And there are Admirals within the fleet, who recognize that the Jedi must be found if the Republic is to hold together."

 

We think of course at the former companion of Revan, Admiral Onasis, to whom he is accountable. He is a pawn of the Republic, not a so bad spy:

 

"Admiral, this is Mical. I have found the exile."

 

He was probably been profiled, a moment, as a pawn of Attris, to whom he reports, as suggested by a phrase left in dialog.tlk.

 

StrRef 122863:

"Mistress, I have found the exile - and that which hunts the Jedi."

 

 

Bug from Obsidian in story? Pure speculation of Mical?

Mical was surprised how the Jedi chose exile.

 

107958 :

No. It is something of a mystery why they would exile themselves as they have.

 

Really? ... At this point of the game, when he says that, nobody, apart Atris and the Exile (and his/her team), knows that there are still 4 Jedi hiding. The Galaxy believed they are all dead and all the Jedi Order off. Even Kreia does not know if some of them are still living. Darth Nihilus has killed them all and Kreia is now on the way to eradicate the previous tool she made (Nihilus and the Sith), by making a new tool, most powerful.

 

Changing Mical profile

To change "simply" the profile of Mical, without changing the game, one should "simply" change all these snippets of sentences quoted at the beginning (but the VOs...).

[Logan23 205]

I think that Mical would be better if there were more information on his study of the Jedi. We could get an anchor of the old Jedi beliefs and be able to argue wither they were right or wrong in their choices and even which ones exactly.

 

This could give the player some feeling of dismissing what the Jedi stood for or denounce what their dogmatic beliefs were or just their choices with events like Revan, Mando wars, etc...

[Guest JediExile]

JediExile, I think that the Exile was slated to train Disciple but he never got to receive his training because she followed Revan to war. As many of the other Jedi also went off to war, there weren't enough teachers to give the training. Yep, Dusciple got the shaft. (It would be interesting if he was a bit more angry about that - more dark side stuff to exploit.)

 

YES! It would've been fun to see an dark sided, angsty Disciple. Perhaps it would've put the snark in his run-ins with Atton.

[jjo 2]

This is kind of an old topic, but I'd kind of like to contribute my two cents.

 

I've never been a big fan of the Disciple. He's grown on me a bit, but I didn't care for him at all the first time I played through TSL. He kind of creeps me out, actually. I could be wrong, but I got the feeling that the Disciple had a crush on the (female) Exile since before the Mandalorian Wars. And I felt like he left the Jedi Order primarily because the girl he had a crush on left to go fight and he decided to go off and mope. Nearly a decade later, he meets the Exile again and just invites himself to join her while not being too helpful. All he does is talk about how the Republic is in bad shape and how the Jedi aren't always considered "right" since they're separated from the vast majority. Gee, thank you for telling me what I already know!

 

He mostly creeps me out because he follows the Exile around like a puppy, eternally devoted to her. Except he's not really devoted to her, he's devoted to his idea of her that he's built up over the past decade. That was something I took issue with in TSL in general: how your companions of opposite gender just kind of instantly fell in love with you. I believe that's due to the fact that the Exile is siphoning off of his or her companions' Force connection and it creates a sort of Force bond (which in turn causes a greater feeling of intimacy). But it still bugs me. I loved the romance sidequests in KOTOR (Carth more than Bastila...she always kind of annoyed me with her hoity-toity attitude), but you had to work to get them going and actually have regular conversations with them. I liked how Carth (or Bastila) got to know Revan well and fell in love gradually instead of instantly latching onto Revan and acting like a pathetic puppy following every order due to some sense of "love".

 

I'm not exactly sure how he could be "improved" without drastically changing his character, though. Mical is supposed to be a naive, doe-eyed innocent. I just wish he was less creepy and had more of an independent personality or something.

[Pazaak 12]

I'd like him to not exist. Although, this might just be bias from someone who is deathly in love with Brianna. I just wish she could be recruited on male and female playthroughs...oh well. Were that the case I might be inclined to make a female character.

 

Beyond that? Yeah, I pretty much agree with all the stereotypes. He's a bland character, he's incompetent at his job, and he has some weird fixation on jedi. My loathe for him cannot be expressed in words, the ONE point I mildly enjoy his character is when he's fighting Atton over the Exile, but that's only because he's taking a rational and noble approach to a situation that surely has no happy ending.

[Lawkmt3 17]

I'd space him. I've got no love for Milk-Dud, then again I think he and Brianna are perfect for each other!

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

You just revived a old thread of mine that was dead since March 2011.  Congratulations!

 

Now you all can watch me pimp my Disciple cut lines video.

 

[Mellowtron11 180]

I know that this is an old topic, but I'd like to add something else. At least from a gameplay standpoint, I know a lot of people complained about the Disciple's low wisdom score, which was rather problematic when he became a consular. Then again, both he and the Handmaiden come off as very sheltered and naive individuals, so the low score kind of makes some sense. Still, the low score was rather annoying for his force power potency.

 

 

Now you all can watch me pimp my Disciple cut lines video.

 

I'm curious why this wasn't added in TSLRCM. The audio files sound like they're all there. Was there a lack of direction in the game scripts of what to do with the files, (ex. player's responses) or a lack of places on the map modules to have the holocrons placed at?

[N-DReW25 1,322]

 

 

I'm curious why this wasn't added in TSLRCM. The audio files sound like they're all there. Was there a lack of direction in the game scripts of what to do with the files, (ex. player's responses) or a lack of places on the map modules to have the holocrons placed at?

That wasn't added because there weren't enough files left over to complete it those audio files "may" be the only thing that indicates it was ever a feature! Though if someone really wanted to they could place custom Holocrons and make a separate restoration mod for it but then there's the whole male problem since by default he's female only!

[Mellowtron11 180]

That wasn't added because there weren't enough files left over to complete it those audio files "may" be the only thing that indicates it was ever a feature! Though if someone really wanted to they could place custom Holocrons and make a separate restoration mod for it but then there's the whole male problem since by default he's female only!

Makes sense. I doubt anyone wants to do voice splicing to compensate for male exile lines as that would be a nightmare to edit. 

[N-DReW25 1,322]

Makes sense. I doubt anyone wants to do voice splicing to compensate for male exile lines as that would be a nightmare to edit. 

Uh, The Disciple is female only which means you can only recruit him if your female unless you have Party Swap or Handmaiden for Females or Disciple for Males so then you'd have a bunch of Holocrons just lying around for no specific reason that is another reason why it wasn't included in TSLRCM.

[Sith Holocron 2,473]

These quotes from the "What's restored in TSLRCM?" thread may prove enlightening.

Note: NR means "Not Restored".
 

[NR - not enough files left] The Holocrons - Throughout the game, if the player is female, she'd find Holocrons in various places. She and the Disciple would examine them and would learn new abilities.

[NR] Disciple's Hidden Holocron - Disciple takes the Exile into a hidden, locked room in the Enclave and displays a holocron as well as recording of when the Exile left for the Mandalorian Wars, leaving a padawan without a master behind.

[DarthVarkor 384]

I struggled with the issue of The Disciple when it came to my film I'm working on now. I wanted him to be in it, but not as he is in the game. So I've re-voiced him, and made him a captain in the Republic fleet. Given him a bit more of authority and confidence, too, but still retaining his very polite and friendly manner. Hopefully it'll work. That's the way I'd improve the character, anyway,