Sleheyron and other things

[Fair Strides 508]

Sadly for you we (I?) are already on that

Though feel free to see if you can improve on 1.8.3, keeping in line with "Restoration" if you want a new challenge after your own mods

 

Nice pun, HH!

 

If I touch anything big like that, it's gonna be the Disciple's Holocrons...

 

Disclaimer: Mention of affiliated projects or related works does not guarantee effort, pain, trauma, lifeblood, sweat or time will be invested. Please look elsewhere, Shark Tank.

 

P.S: So, am I still dead to you?

[LDR 234]

Come to think of it, I have a confession to make as well. I'm a lazy modder. I used to have a passion for these games that bordered on obsession. When I first began modding, way back in 2009 (before I joined the community), I started working on the infamous prison ship mod. After a few months I had it polished and almost complete, and I teased everyone with only a few screenies by the time I finally joined LucasForums. And then the first of a long series of bad luck bestowed upon me. I lost all my files on my computer. I was infuriated. I started it back up and after a few months it was all lost again. I started it up again and also started working on my other projects as well. And then my KOTORs decided to stop working and I had to get a new computer. On the new one the games still wouldn't work for a good few weeks. Ever since then, for over 4 years, my drive for modding has been deteriorating.

 

I start work on a project, and then after a while I run into a bug. Instead of bothering to fix it, I move on to one of my other projects or shovel the problem onto someone else (like poor Fair Strides here). So instead of focusing on one project at a time and possibly having 3 or 4 mods released by now, I have about 8 projects which are a quarter-finished. In 2 years I'm going to be in college and I won't have as much time to work on these mods as I do now.

 

Anywho, my reasoning is almost exactly like Fair Strides's. Also, if anyone's going to start up the Sleheyron Project for a third incarnation, I'd be more than willing to lend my abilities to it.

[Fair Strides 508]

Come to think of it, I have a confession to make as well. I'm a lazy modder. I used to have a passion for these games that bordered on obsession. When I first began modding, way back in 2009 (before I joined the community), I started working on the infamous prison ship mod. After a few months I had it polished and almost complete, and I teased everyone with only a few screenies by the time I finally joined LucasForums. And then the first of a long series of bad luck bestowed upon me. I lost all my files on my computer. I was infuriated. I started it back up and after a few months it was all lost again. I started it up again and also started working on my other projects as well. And then my KOTORs decided to stop working and I had to get a new computer. On the new one the games still wouldn't work for a good few weeks. Ever since then, for over 4 years, my drive for modding has been deteriorating.

 

I start work on a project, and then after a while I run into a bug. Instead of bothering to fix it, I move on to one of my other projects or shovel the problem onto someone else (like poor Fair Strides here). So instead of focusing on one project at a time and possibly having 3 or 4 mods released by now, I have about 8 projects which are a quarter-finished. In 2 years I'm going to be in college and I won't have as much time to work on these mods as I do now.

 

Anywho, my reasoning is almost exactly like Fair Strides's. If anyone's going to start up the Sleheyron Project for a third incarnation, I'd be more than willing to lend my abilities to it.

 

"Yes, yes. Poor Smeagol, nobody likes Smeagol" ~~

 

Don't worry, LDR. If anything I'll hassle ya when you're not motivated enough. You and I are in for the long haul, man. And I like solving your problems! They help me speed up the already-early hair loss I copied from my Uncle Joe!

 

I'm still a bit miffed by the bug we had on Battle of Duxn... and how simple the solution was.:|

[milestails 264]

There is, however, a Sleheyron demo.....

 

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/Sleheyron_Demo;97629

 

and a still functioning, yet inactive message board....

 

http://www.sleheyron-rp.proboards.com

[Vriff 21]

I've been meaning to start modding for years. I've read and watched many tutorials but never actually did anything. I keep saying "some other time, when I have more time" and it never happens. >_> I even download 3DS Max, and other tools every so often, install them, install KOTOR, and never actually use them.

I'll do it...one day.

[Quanon 263]

Wow, SS!

 

That's a very faithful recreations of the official Bioware screenshots. A real shame the PC got stolen >:- /

I lost my first area models due to a fried Graphic card in my Laptop... 

And I've got the same sentiment. Creating new areas, making them fun to play and look good is a very BIG task.

Most folks don't know what goes into it and how tedious it can get to solve all the tiny bugs and other messes in your model.

It is mostly just that part that can suck so hard you sort of rage quit on a project. I've restarted my Nar Shaddaa project 3 times now.

Blasted lightmaps!!!

 

I don't hold a grudge against Disbeliever. I tried to apologize to Disbeliever, but I guess I never got my message across to him.

And perhaps he thought Holowan was a bit too much in favor to me ... since I'm a long time resident. *sigh*

 

 

Oh, SS, the capital of light is still being worked on, though very very slowly.

Whenever you feel like it; I'm just a PM away ;-)

[Sithspecter 908]

Oh, SS, the capital of light is still being worked on, though very very slowly.

Whenever you feel like it; I'm just a PM away ;-)

 

Oh good grief, I'd forgotten all about that. I don't know if it's in the cards for me. I think my huge mod creation window might have passed. Not that I didn't have a blast working on what I did.

[Mandalore 61]

All of you guys are great. Just saying that. I haven't done much for a while either, because to echo the words of SS, I'm more interested in working out new ways of doing things and getting past issues than actually creating content - I've been following the work VP and Fair Strides are doing on making new tools and understanding the file types, and that's the kind of thing I really want to be doing, I just have no idea where to really start. The only language I really know is Python, which doesn't really seem useful for this sort of thing (though I started Java in my Computing class a couple of weeks ago), so I've mainly just been marvelling at your brilliance.

[Fair Strides 508]

All of you guys are great. Just saying that. I haven't done much for a while either, because to echo the words of SS, I'm more interested in working out new ways of doing things and getting past issues than actually creating content - I've been following the work VP and Fair Strides are doing on making new tools and understanding the file types, and that's the kind of thing I really want to be doing, I just have no idea where to really start. The only language I really know is Python, which doesn't really seem useful for this sort of thing (though I started Java in my Computing class a couple of weeks ago), so I've mainly just been marvelling at your brilliance.

 

Why thank you, Mandalore!

 

It isn't an easy task, what VP and me are doing, even if I dug up the Official Bioware File Format pdfs they had up in the nwn section of their site. I found those by a fluke link that I thought would be a dead end...

 

As it is, I've got the TLK figured out and shared that with VP. He did some C#/C++(Can't recall which) magic by turning the GFFs to XML like Tk102 did. I can't wait to see what tools we make!

 

By the way, I encountered a piece of modelling that NWMax doesn't support...

I tried decompiling the swoop bike model for K1 and the import got screwed up by a "frameend 0 0 0" piece of the ASCII file; the same exact thing happened with the models for the mines.

 

Quanon, do you have any input on this anomaly?

[Quanon 263]

 "frameend 0 0 0"

Sounds like animations to me. And IIRC, all versions of MDLops don't tread animations very well; or not at all. Plus there are still some mystery 'nodes', little parts that the creators of MDLops didn't know what it was. The only thing I know is that MagnusII was working on the animation 'problem' for Kaurora. I guess he has some really good insight on how the whole MDL and MDX thing works. 

 

I'll have a look in my contacts on my Gmail, I should have MagnusII email address, I used it waaaaaaaay back in time to get in touch; or try PMing him on LF.

Sometimes he replies, could take a while though. I do know he used the info from NeverWinter modding sites to get started on Kaurora; but the guy is a genius

 

I can't help much, I'm just a creative type of guy, never had much interest in coding.

[Fair Strides 508]

Sounds like animations to me. And IIRC, all versions of MDLops don't tread animations very well; or not at all. Plus there are still some mistery 'nodes', little parts that the creators of MDLops didn't know what it was. The only thing I know is that MagnusII was working on the animation 'problem' for Kaurora. I guess he has some really good insight on how the whole MDL and MDX thing works. 

 

I'll have a look in my contacts on my gmail, I should have MagnusII email adress, I used it waaaaaaaay back in time to get in touch; or try PMing him on LF.

Sometimes he replies, could take a while though. I do know he used the info from NeverWinter modding sites to get started on Kaurora; but the guy is a genius

 

I can't help much, I'm just a creative type of guy, never had much interest in coding.

 

Yeah, I figured that.*sigh*

 

My only guess on it is that it tells the game where to read the frames from next? But the 0 0 0 reminds me of X Y Z...

 

And the issue isn't MDLOps, but NWMax. I don't think people want to go digging into that can of worms...

I think if we take it out of the ASCII, import the mdl into GMax/3DSMax, work on it, export, and then add it back to the same positions, it should be fine. However, I have no idea...

[Fair Strides 508]

In any case, HAVE FUN MODDING! Don't take it too seriously. It's supposed to be fun. Don't be afraid to create corny stuff like the Gizka Gun or the Giz-kebob.

 

As an aside...

 

Man, I took the time to make a dancing mod, okay?!

 

Mind you, I accidentally used the armband on Atton during testing and fully expected the game to crash! Seeing Atton actually dancing pretty much had the same effect on my brain...

[Quanon 263]

Yeah, I figured that.*sigh*

 

My only guess on it is that it tells the game where to read the frames from next? But the 0 0 0 reminds me of X Y Z...

 

Hmm, you know each model has a lot of those little green boxes, those helper objects. Floating about.

Like mask hooks; which say where the game needs to put a mask to a players head; There's even a head hook.

All sorts of that. Perhaps this is also about such an object; where the X Y Z is set to 0 0 0 and somehow this makes NWmax go 'bonkers'.

 

I've had NWmax do crashes on all sorts of stuff. Though I can't recall anything like the above.

[Fair Strides 508]

Hmm, you know each model has a lot of those little green boxes, those helper objects. Floating about.

Like mask hooks; which say where the game needs to put a mask to a players head; There's even a head hook.

All sorts of that. Perhaps this is also about such an object; where the X Y Z is set to 0 0 0 and somehow this makes NWmax go 'bonkers'.

 

I've had NWmax do crashes on all sorts of stuff. Though I can't recall anything like the above.

 

If it helps, slogging through the ASCII for where the "frameend 0 0 0" was, I found it attached to the dummies for the where the thrusters are(the actual thruster deal with the flame and what not is controlled elsewhere), which were placed about six inches from the thrusters on the swoop.

 

In the mine models... I can't remember what it was attached to, but I know it was a dummy.

 

...

 

Maybe... maybe the frameend thing means when to destroy the element/not show it in-game?

[InSidious 235]

Well, this thread turned nostalgic quickly...

 

Just want to add a couple of thoughts, since I've been at this about the longest (? I think? Unless someone's heard from svosh or any of the other elder gods of the KotOR community lately).

 

First of all, SH may have been a little brusque at the start of the thread, but back in the day that would have seemed like a nice post; particularly compared to the way I used to reply to people (and still do, on occasion.)

 

On modding, there's a lot of really good commentary in here already. Modding KotOR is a pretty unrewarding hobby, and to an extent it always has been.

 

When the community had more members, little mods tended to get lost behind more major releases, the possibilities were very limited, some things were harder to do, and established wisdom tended to discourage you from trying new approaches to existing problems. On the other hand, people using mods could be pushy and demanding, expecting a professional level of service from hobbyists. It tended to produce an impatience with newbs and people who had problems with mods. My point is, it's never been all that rewarding. Either you have to get satisfaction from simply getting things to work as you want them in the game, and from making the system do what you want, or you will probably give up.

 

It's also really, really slow. Modding KotOR is never that easily done. The games were never designed to be modded, after all. But it is slow, and as SS said, lonely. Collaborations rarely work in modding these games, partly because we have so few modders spread over the world, and partly more systemic issues. TSLRCM is a good example of how a team can work, but there, as I understand it, two very committed people did the majority of the content restoration, and then a couple of other, very committed, people did the beta-testing, and all of them contributed to bugfixing (please correct me if I've got the process wrong). Alternatively, look at BoS:SR, where one highly committed modder worked, and then effectively subcontracted for specific things to other modders.

 

That's not how collaborative mods usually look a the outset. Normally, you get six people with ideas, a couple of inexperienced modders and maybe one modder with some scripting experience/other significantly useful knowledge under their belt. And the thing falls apart quickly, because the modders either don't have the time, the energy or the experience to really put in the work needed, the plot remains hazy or underdeveloped as people bicker over ideas, there's a lack of forward momentum, enthusiasm dies, and the project is abandoned. I've watched this happen a lot of times, and I've been part of it happening quite a few times, too (generally speaking, things I collaborate on either take forever or never get released at all. I'm like a curse on mod releases...)

 

Enthusiasm does wane over time. Everyone's does. My enthusiasm for modding has died off more times than I can count. On a couple of occasions, I've got so fed up, I've decided to abandon modding completely. It happens. The thing is, your enthusiasm will come back, too (though it may require a little stoking, on occasion). Take a break; the mood will pass, and you'll want to mod again. It's how I've kept going this long, anyway. Admittedly, my habit of taking on large projects and then spending forever releasing them is not the best example to follow, but still. There's nothing quite like seeing something you've worked on for weeks work smoothly in game, and then seeing it ready for release.

 

Another thing worth considering: at this point, new mods keep the games alive. It's pretty much only big, new mods which are going to attract downloads and replays at this stage. So to a certain extent, a mod is a big deal in itself. I'm not saying that to try and put the pressure on, but it's worth bearing in mind that if it's big enough to get people back into playing KotOR (or playing for the first time - TSL is closing on ten years old at this point...), then it may start generating modders itself. Keeping this community going at this point is down to us.

 

 

Why thank you, Mandalore!

 

It isn't an easy task, what VP and me are doing, even if I dug up the Official Bioware File Format pdfs they had up in the nwn section of their site. I found those by a fluke link that I thought would be a dead end...

 

I've got a couple of those relating to the area files, from working on my big (still incomplete) tutorial on module editing, if you're still looking.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

TSLRCM is a good example of how a team can work, but there, as I understand it, two very committed people did the majority of the content restoration, and then a couple of other, very committed, people did the beta-testing, and all of them contributed to bugfixing (please correct me if I've got the process wrong).

Mostly 2 very dedicated people, and one very dedicated tester (not to say the rest did a bad job). Stoney and Zbyl did the bugfixing.

Then later on, around 1.7 Stoney dissapeared a little, zbyl got less active (mostly due to M4-78EP), but instead I learned how to mod, VP did several additions (but wasn't on fulltime) and SH helped out on the audio-front. And from 1.8+ it's pretty much been my "baby".

So yeah, not exactly the typical run of the mill.

There's nothing quite like seeing something you've worked on for weeks work smoothly in game, and then seeing it ready for release.

And then imagine.. year(s).

[Sithspecter 908]

Anyone happen to have the original Sleheyron screenshots from the game? I know there are 5 but I can only find 2.

[milestails 264]

There's a couple here: http://www.starwarsknights.com/screenshots.php

[InSidious 235]

In addition, I found a couple from your WIP page for Sleheyron:

http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120920131235/starwars/images/1/1c/Sleheyron_KotOR.jpg

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2436903&postcount=307

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2423734&postcount=15

 

But if I ever had more, I don't now, I'm afraid.

[Sithspecter 908]

I was able to find all 5 and some extra early KotOR screens here:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic/images/

 

Some of these are pretty interesting.

[MrPhil 58]

There are a lot of screenshots in there. A lot of concept art also. Guess it took some digging to find these in there uh? Well, I wish you won't loose your current computer to a f'ing stealer...

[ZM90 100]

As for ZM90 I personally think it is a good idea to focus on K1R first, whether or not they ever decide to restore Sleheyron is their choice but I think they might tackle it after the first release of K1R as an expansion.

 

Well you are correct that K1R is a much higher priority, we do want to eventually do Sleheyron if we can however it is at the bottom of the list honestly due to the degree of time it would take.  We also have other expansions we plan to do before that if Sleheyron is done.  Another thing is once 1.0 is released we're probably going to take a break from anything K1R related to refresh ourselves which is why we want to make 1.0 as bug free as possible.  Modding is fun for a while but when you are nearing the end of a big project you start to feel burned out and you need time to refresh yourself and then come back to modding later.  

[Malkior 472]

Quick question; have you already drafted a full story for the planet? I just read the near-entirety of the old Sleheyron thread, and according to that (and the writer for Kotor), it was originally to be a convoluted plot about underworld hutt politics and illegal arena fights mixed in with finding the elusive Star Map which was owned by one of those hutts. Are you shooting for anything that ambitious?

[disbeliever 3]

Hello all,

 

I am still around and still working. I don't quit something I start, although as I said on the Holowan thread I just updated, I get to work on this maybe once every few weeks. 34 year old husband, and father of 2, with 2 career jobs.

 

And I think someone said about me that I take modding serious, that's true. However, I take everything I commit to serious. In my life experiences it's suited me well to succeed. I don't commit to a project and then just abandon it.

 

After I was forced to go at it alone, I decided it was far to problematic to rely on others for something like this, but I also decided I was only going to finish the planet Sleheyron and release it to the community to be done with as they please. I know nothing about programming or scripting for KotOR, and honestly don't have the time to learn. So rather than beg for someone to do that portion, and it possibly never get done, I would just make the world.

 

I have 8 areas planned. After our group broke up I trashed everything that was done to that point and began again. If anyone remembers it was the landing bay that had ramps to a shop area, with a swoop bike garage. Cables on the ground everywhere, a real harsh and hopeless place. That's sort of the feeling I wanted to get across. I took Logan's advice on the boards and felt an DLC for KotOR needed to be more than just eye candy, and have a real feel to it. You look at it and think "God damn, I don't ever want to visit here".

 

I got about 4 areas completely finished and in game, then decided 3 of the areas didn't fit with my vision and started over yet again. As it stands now I have 5 of the 8 areas completely done. Although I am in the process of moving my entire KotOR modding folder to a new laptop, which means configuring all of the necessary programs and 3dsm plug ins. Some of it I honestly don't know if I even remember.

 

Just about the only thing Q and I agreed on at the end was not to simply copy what Bioware had tried to do, but create an entirely new and fresh experience.

 

I'm not angry at Quanon anymore, although at the time I was furious. He vanished for a good chunk of time and then told me he needed a break from modding due to personal reasons and/or mental health. I got that, respected that and was fine with that. IIRC I wished him well and a speedy recovery. Then a week later he's making a WIP thread showing new work he's been doing, after telling me he was done modding. I just am not programmed that way. If I commit to something or someone, I make it work or make sure they have someone else to pick up the slack. Like everything in life communication is essential and key, and he just gave me none. He explained all of that earlier it seems to this thread, but I wanted to give my perspective on things. It's water under the bridge now.

 

If people are looking to collaborate on this, I am def. in. We would need to do some serious project management before starting though. I work as a manager of applications development and know project management inside and out. We can sit down and really get a plan together to finally get this done.

[disbeliever 3]

Did I just kill this thread?