TSL Textures Remastered

[Quanon 261]

You prefer the low-resolution and washed-out textures that were created without the tools and techniques of today and an understanding of how to get the most out of your game engine... Well, I guess that would appeal to some .

 

 

Mmm... No, think you misunderstand.

I like higher resolution and a more details. Just found the contrast looked bit strong.

 

Don't think softer tones demand less resolution and being washed out. It's not the same IMO.

But, great work none the less. And carry on

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

Mmm... No, think you misunderstand.

I like higher resolution and a more details. Just found the contrast looked bit strong.

 

Don't think softer tones demand less resolution and being washed out. It's not the same IMO.

But, great work none the less. And carry on

 

Yeah, there usually is a difference between seeing the textures as part of a screenshot and seeing the textures in-game. There is a difference due to differing "temperature" (etc) profiles used between your OS desktop and that used by the game -- also your in-game contrast and brightness settings will play a part. So, it doesn't look as "dark" in game, also, the textures are the way they are due to specular.

 

Pretty much all the textures make use of specular as long as the alpha channel is not being used for something else. Some of the "bright" parts is actually the specular effect being applied to the textures, making the surrounding areas appear darker in a way -- I've noticed it is more pronounced when viewed as part of a screenshot out of game as well.

[VarsityPuppet 1,084]

Yeah, there usually is a difference between seeing the textures as part of a screenshot and seeing the textures in-game. There is a difference due to differing "temperature" (etc) profiles used between your OS desktop and that used by the game -- also your in-game contrast and brightness settings will play a part. So, it doesn't look as "dark" in game, also, the textures are the way they are due to specular.

 

Pretty much all the textures make use of specular as long as the alpha channel is not being used for something else. Some of the "bright" parts is actually the specular effect being applied to the textures, making the surrounding areas appear darker in a way -- I've noticed it is more pronounced when viewed as part of a screenshot out of game as well.

 

Could you explain a little bit about the specular effects? I only ask just because I guess I'm not that familiar, and wonder what that would translate to in terms of what you're doing with the textures?

 

Like tgas with alpha channels and envmap cm_baremetal in the txi? or something else?

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

Could you explain a little bit about the specular effects? I only ask just because I guess I'm not that familiar, and wonder what that would translate to in terms of what you're doing with the textures?

 

Like tgas with alpha channels and envmap cm_baremetal in the txi? or something else?

 

K1 and TSL do specular along a similar lines as many more modern games do it via a normal map, in that the Red, Green and Blue channels of an RGBA image are used for the normal map, with the alpha channel being used for the specularity map -- as essentially a specularity map is a grayscale black and white image representing what is and isn't shiny. However, K1 and TSL instead use the diffuse (or color) map where the RGB is used for color with the alpha channel used to house the specularity information. Which is fine as long as you don't need the alpha to represent something else -- like actual transparent parts of the image. This is why some games (probably most) use a separate grayscale image as a sepcularity map, or, house it with the normal map instead.

 

Anyway, yeah, the specularity is the alpha channel of the diffuse image along with the correct line added to the TXI file. Most of my TXI files only have the one entry in them and that is: "envmaptexture CM_baremetal". That tells the renderer to use the correct shader in order to use the alpha channel as a specularity map.

 

FYI: you don't have to use CM_baremetal as the specularity map; TSL more or less only has the one generic specularity texture, but K1 actually has 2. I also created a few custom ones, however, I usually just use the standard one as it seems to work well enough.

[Quanon 261]

Yeah, noticed the 'darkening' in screenshots to. Certainly when I was re-texturing Malachor. Most of my shots looked like pure black/ grey mess.

Thanks for that info on the specular thing. I love the artsy part of games, but never got to far in the more techy side of things.

 

I did notice that Kotor does have a few normalmaps. Water on Manaan and some of the floor textures. Dantooine estates comes to mind.

Was looking for a plugin for Photoshop to do normalmaps; but didn't find one that was willing to work. Of course 3Ds Max should be able to handle it.

 

Eh, something I might have to dig into.

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

Yeah, noticed the 'darkening' in screenshots to. Certainly when I was re-texturing Malachor. Most of my shots looked like pure black/ grey mess.

Thanks for that info on the specular thing. I love the artsy part of games, but never got to far in the more techy side of things.

 

I did notice that Kotor does have a few normalmaps. Water on Manaan and some of the floor textures. Dantooine estates comes to mind.

Was looking for a plugin for Photoshop to do normalmaps; but didn't find one that was willing to work. Of course 3Ds Max should be able to handle it.

 

Eh, something I might have to dig into.

 

KoTOR doesn't really do normal maps, it uses an older technique when they first called it "bump" maps. It is very much a RGB normal map, in that I'm pretty sure it will ignore any Alhpa channel component -- which some games use for specular, others use to store a depth map. And even then the RGB approach will likely be inferior to anything a more modern game engine can handle; like only good for things that need to look shiny in a very plasticky or rubbery sense, which limits its uses.

 

So far I don't think anyone has ever gotten the game to accept a custom normal map; the game will refuse to load them. I've tried a number of times a number of ways and had no luck with it. Did think of a another way to try recently but I doubt it will be successful and even if it is, not sure how much benefit it will add. Though, I figure there is another more sure fire way of doing it, two actually, but that means a lot more work; one more so than the other.

[MrPhil 58]

If you want to test-out the fighters, try Chainz.2da's saves at this URL:

http://deadlystream.com/forum/topic/828-game-savetsl-entire-game-save-collection-2of2/

You are looking for save "000112 - Game111"

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

If you want to test-out the fighters, try Chainz.2da's saves at this URL:

http://deadlystream.com/forum/topic/828-game-savetsl-entire-game-save-collection-2of2/

You are looking for save "000112 - Game111"

 

Already found the saves, didn't know which one to use though. Still, bit busy at the moment with a tricky part of the Telos Restoration Zone:

 

 

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

Telos Ravager and Sith Fighters test:

 

 

In order to get any detail on the fighters the texture has ended up 2048x2048 and coming in at around 16mbs... I really hope who ever was responsible for this texture was subsequently fired   .

 

Especially as the lower half of the texture is completely blank and as far as I know, serves no purpose but could of been used for higher detail Sith Fighters -- higher in detail than I can get currently with an image half the size at the very least.

[Rtas Vadum 17]

 

I did notice that Kotor does have a few normalmaps. Water on Manaan and some of the floor textures. Dantooine estates comes to mind.

Was looking for a plugin for Photoshop to do normalmaps; but didn't find one that was willing to work. Of course 3Ds Max should be able to handle it.

 

Eh, something I might have to dig into.

 

There should be a .dds plugin for Photoshop that adds a filter for normal maps. I've only used it for Oblivion and VTMB - though it seems a little odd there, since trying to get something to shine and have a normal map, it ends up way too shiny(makes character models look like a malfuctioning T-1000)...since I'm a little unsure if the game works like Oblivion, in that the normal map texture can handle both the definition and shine.

[Fair Strides 503]

Telos Ravager and Sith Fighters test:

 

 

In order to get any detail on the fighters the texture has ended up 2048x2048 and coming in at around 16mbs... I really hope who ever was responsible for this texture was subsequently fired   .

 

Especially as the lower half of the texture is completely blank and as far as I know, serves no purpose but could of been used for higher detail Sith Fighters -- higher in detail than I can get currently with an image half the size at the very least.

 

Hey, SIC. If you can track down the model the Sith Fighters use, I'd be more than happy to edit the UVW map so that you can add more detail to the texture. Possibly re-portion it out and definitely use the lower half of the texture file...

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

Hey, SIC. If you can track down the model the Sith Fighters use, I'd be more than happy to edit the UVW map so that you can add more detail to the texture. Possibly re-portion it out and definitely use the lower half of the texture file...

 

Yeah it's the backdrop sith fighters which are part of the animated skybox model I think. Looking at what textures they use -- haven't opened them up yet -- the only 2 models to do with this in these sections I believe are: "221telc" and "222tel06" which both use the "TEL_Rav" texture. Ideally they should be using an entirely different (new) texture, UVW mapped to use all of the space.

[Quanon 261]

The one thing I think held back the Kotor games in the graphic department was that it had to run on the old Xbox. I think the textures got really down sized hard to make it run on the console and to let it fit on the 'dvd' disc, or whatever it was the xbox used. Not sure if by Hex editing you can track down the meshes that make up the sith fighters in the skybox model. So you can give them a unique texture all of their own.

[Fair Strides 503]

The one thing I think held back the Kotor games in the graphic department was that it had to run on the old Xbox. I think the textures got really down sized hard to make it run on the console and to let it fit on the 'dvd' disc, or whatever it was the xbox used. Not sure if by Hex editing you can track down the meshes that make up the sith fighters in the skybox model. So you can give them a unique texture all of their own.

I'm working on that. Unfortunately, hex-editing it still won't change the UVW...

 

Also, I ran 221telc through MDLOps, imported it into 3DS, changed the texture and UVW on that one piece.

 

Thing is, KAurora will export to binary the original ascii from MDLOps, but not the Ascii from 3DS. I tried it again just importing and not changing anything, and it still won't go...

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

The one thing I think held back the Kotor games in the graphic department was that it had to run on the old Xbox. I think the textures got really down sized hard to make it run on the console and to let it fit on the 'dvd' disc, or whatever it was the xbox used. Not sure if by Hex editing you can track down the meshes that make up the sith fighters in the skybox model. So you can give them a unique texture all of their own.

 

Yeah, I thought that might be a factor, but really, why not make use of the extra texture space? I think what happened is that they were going to do it differently but then ran out of time either went with what they had or did some quick fix. They may have also gone this way because they couldn't get the sith fighters to look right via the XBOX hardware -- there may have been rendering limitations. So, they opted to go blurry instead and hope that with the action going on that players wouldn't care if they had played through to that point.

 

But really, there would have been at least one producer who had to sign off on it, and in my opinion, this is just unacceptable quality-wise -- especially as with their tools, it would have been a 15 minute fix:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hex editing is not going to much help I think; you can edit the meshes to use a different texture, but editing UVW mapping is more difficult. There are discernible numbers that you can make out clearly along with the texture filenames, appears to actually represent a value, however what does what, is harder to discern from the soup of surrounding gibberish.

 

I'm working on that. Unfortunately, hex-editing it still won't change the UVW...

 

Also, I ran 221telc through MDLOps, imported it into 3DS, changed the texture and UVW on that one piece.

 

Thing is, KAurora will export to binary the original ascii from MDLOps, but not the Ascii from 3DS. I tried it again just importing and not changing anything, and it still won't go...

 

Yeah, I didn't think you'd have much luck .

 

I think there is another way to do it that I thought of last night before going to bed that might work with existing tools, better than hex editing...

 

EDIT: like my new desk? I textured it myself .

 

 

 

 

 

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

A bit of an update...

 

In way of the Ravager and Sith Fighter texture, this is as far as I am going to take it for the time being:

 

 

 

 

The texture is stupidly over sized, and for that you get far more detail for the ravager than will ever be shown on screen and barely any detail on the Sith Fighters at all...

 

 

 

 

I'll wait and see if Fair Strides has any luck with editing and exporting the model -- unless it is modifying the perl scripts that MDLops uses, I don't see it being a success :/.

 

EDIT: I take it you guys would like for this texture to be made available ASAP, I might do that once I've heard back from Fair Strides on what happened further with his area model editing efforts.

 

Have made some more progress with the Telos Restoration textures, need to do one more rock (replacement) texture, the "grass," new shield wall animated texture, and then finally additions to the skybox to tie it altogether. I'll post up a set of screens for that when I'm done.

 

I've also been doing some placeable object textures, in particular those found within the restoration zone:

 

 

 

 

I'm quite pleased with the new transparent and yet still shiny glass effect for the speeder windshields.

 

Below is a hover sled with a ship engine -- might hex in an alt variant texture for the engine:

 

 

 

 

 

For those curious about the meaning of the transparent pink desk in the last post, well, a problem I've had is that modified placeable models seem to pop out of existence when the camera passes over them; I do believe I know have this resolved as the modified mesh for this desk can attest to:

 

 

 

 

UV mapping of the lights for the desk is different along with the angle of the side monitors, in case you're wondering.

 

The approach I've taken should allow me to make further improvements to existing placeable models that requrie more than a hex edit to switch the texture used:

 

 

It should also be a big help in making certain models useable again, like this one which was used in K1 but I don't think ever appeared in TSL:

 

 

 

 

 

The new(er) approach(es) I was hoping would allow me to modify more complex model files like those with animated elements and lightmaps. It doesn't so that means that module environment models are sill a big issue.

[Dark_Ansem 12]

Sorry to hear that but your work is awesome none the less

[Taki17 4]

Is it possible to add more ships besides the Ravager? It'd be nice to also see some Sith and Republic warships. But given the current problems you're facing, I don't know if that would work.

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

Sorry to hear that but your work is awesome none the less

 

Thanks, it's nice to hear that people like the work. I know that I gripe a lot about the limitations of how to do things, but that's because I see how things can be and get frustrated when I can't make any progress in making them a reality. Still nice to hear that people like what they see; let's me know I should keep at it .

 

Is it possible to add more ships besides the Ravager? It'd be nice to also see some Sith and Republic warships. But given the current problems you're facing, I don't know if that would work.

 

Yes and no, I could hex one of the model rotating cylinders to use another alternative texture, but, I think it is a waste of effort and unnecessary burden to place on the game renderer for very little burdent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The best option really is to edit the mesh, especially the way the cylinders are UVW mapped to use any texture. The way it's setup I'm sure was a quick way of doing it, however, the end result is very poor. I'm no modelling expert, but, I'm pretty sure they could of had differing parts of the mesh set to use different parts of the texture to better effect, rather than letting it "wrap" the texture around the mesh.

 

I might give it another shot, as one of the problems is that I don't use these tools on a regular basis. Every time I start up again I have to essentially relearn how to do things -- though this time I'm making notes . It also doesn't help that my model editing folders and files aren't very well organised; this is in part due to how MDLops and NWmax exports files, with all exports using the same .mdl file extension whether they are in binary or ASCII text format. If you neglect to make a change in NWmax as to where it exports files and what it calls them, it's easy to have things overwritten and lost; not to mention it can be initially unclear what file version you're working with -- an NWmax export or MDLops.

 

Anyway, I'll probably get around to looking at the problem in more depth, and this particular model is a good test case to see whether module environment models can be edited and run in game without any issues; but, currently I have other small projects that I'd like to finish up first before taking on another code-based one.

 

 

 

 

 

[MrPhil 58]

LoLor? What's that rock?

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

LoLor? What's that rock?

 

I guess you've never seen a normal map? It's a blend of the before diffuse (color) texture and the normal map derived from it; a plugin I'm working on for the image editing program.

 

 

Xuul has done a YouTube video of my original release for this mod:

 

http://youtu.be/zOi5pPmZfmQ

[MrPhil 58]

So basically, you are talking about a plugin for a program that takes a texture and modifies its lightning and makes it easier to work on a batch of texture? That's not exactly my cup of tea, but that's what my ignorant brain can cough up for an explanation lol. That's why I work  on a very small scale and never do amazing skin jobs

[sELFiNDUCEDcOMA 97]

So basically, you are talking about a plugin for a program that takes a texture and modifies its lightning and makes it easier to work on a batch of texture? That's not exactly my cup of tea, but that's what my ignorant brain can cough up for an explanation lol. That's why I work  on a very small scale and never do amazing skin jobs

 

The filter plugin takes the diffuse (color) texture and then allows you to select a range of options and output a normal map to be used with the diffuse texture in games. Normal maps are a way of making a low-poly 3D model look like it has more detail by telling the renderer to render the diffuse texture's pixels differently in way of lighting -- as simply as I can put it.

 

Some references on normal maps:

• Normal Mapping (OpenGL) - has video to watch which might help
• Oblivion Parallax and Normal maps - fairly good info on the mechanics, especially makes clear the respective RGBA channels
• Tangent Space Normal Mapping - I guess you could say this is more technical and "modern" in a way, but also gives additional info

[Quanon 261]

IIRC; in todays games, they make highpoly models and from those create all kinds of maps. And then apply those maps to a lower poly version of the same model.

But I guess you're not about to remodel everything from the Kotor games to get normal maps

 

Love the video! Really shows the work you put into this!

[LDR 231]

I really like what you did with the Restoration Zone! Glad you took all of the "peanut butter" off of the Czerka structures. It looks so much nicer now.