Mod Build Request Thread - KOTOR

[Thor110 494]

4 hours ago, DarthParametric said:

Aspyr already fixed this for the Switch version. You just need to steal it. Although from what I can tell, they used a kind of hacky (hardcoded) approach rather than fixing it properly, so it would need some additional work to port it across. Aspyr gonna Aspyr I guess.

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Didn't you do a fix for this as well? From what I recall yours looked acceptable though you weren't happy with it, that version doesn't look nice at all.

P.S. : That's a lot of requests!

Edited May 20 by Thor110

[DarthParametric 3,782]

15 hours ago, Thor110 said:

Didn't you do a fix for this as well?

I was messing around with something, as seen in the linked Discord discussion, but it never really went anywhere beyond a basic proof of concept.

15 hours ago, Thor110 said:

that version doesn't look nice at all

The top section is a little questionable, but the bottom looks ok to me. Or at least the lefthand side anyway. They did actually make that part an extension of the original with new artwork. They only made it for 16:9 though, so it doesn't solve the issue for ultrawide aspect ratios. So you'd have to do some custom work regardless. You could use it as a starting point perhaps.

[N-DReW25 1,336]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:05 AM, Snigaroo said:

Yavin and The Great Hunt

The NPC Deesra Luur Jada tells the player about the Terentatek on Dantooine and you can return and tell him about the times you kill Terentateks on your journey.

 

Maybe this function can be co-opted into a full fledged side-quest which leads you to Yavin 4. By having it this way It'll prompt you to go to Yavin 4 with good reasons for doing so.

 

As you've mentioned, making brand new "original" areas will be a problem. Whilst I agree that Motor Squad level of quality for Yavin 4 isn't desirable, players would probably forgive reusing areas if the graphics of these reused are at BOSSR level of quality.

 

On 5/11/2023 at 9:05 AM, Snigaroo said:

Return to Dantooine

I know the Sandrale Estate got bombed to smithereens, but maybe the Matale Estate could serve as a Sith Garrison which could justify how it survived the occupation and become Khoonda.

 

Instead of Vrook or any one else important, why not use Deesra Luur Jada instead? He did canonically survive the bombardment.

 

A major problem with returning to Dantooine is the fact that the population of Khoonda mostly despises the Jedi 5 years later, if the player came back and helped people that will really threaten the continuity. Instead of helping Dantooine survivors, why not go out on quests to help Jedi Survivors or Dantooine survivors with Force sensitive children escape from the Sith and help them get off world?

 

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The Hutt of Dantooine

 

This here is a Pre-Release Screenshot of Shuma the Hutt from before he was cut. Judging from the screenshot, he was replaced by So'laa.

 

Would you consider this request fulfilled if it was added to RC-K1CP? Or are you asking for a standalone mod for the Hutt, with maybe some custom content on the side to spice up his character (Maybe even add him to the Return to Dantooine mod as a Sith Collaborator)?

 

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Believable Selkath Takeover

The solution would be to turn the Hrakert station levels into an Outlast Game. You gotta take the Selkath and turn them into the zombies from 28 Days Later, retexture them and soak them up in blood, modify their model so you can visibly see their sharps claws and add a new sound so you can hear their claws slashing into you. Give them new, zombie-like soundsets and take use of the "Battle Cry" field so you can hear their ungodly screams as they charge at you, these soundsets should be distinct from the normal Selkath soundset so you can tell these Selkath are beyond all human reasoning... like zombies.

 

The Selkath fighting each other makes sense to me, once the humans are gone the Selkath have only themselves to fight/eat... they probably weren't fighting each other from the start.

 

Litter the modules with Republic and Merc NPCs that have an OnDeath script so they die upon entering the module, this'll create the "Bodies everywhere" the first Merc tells you about. It would be good to have severed arms, severed heads, bones, indistinguishable organ piles, Republic trooper helmets and the like but the placeable limit really puts a stop to creative ideas that could really add to the Hrakert atmosphere... the blood puddle placeables would have to suffice.

 

Placeables have their limits, but NPCs do not. It is possible to make a head invincible in the appearance.2da, this is normally a bug but here it can be exploited and turned into a feature. Have a headless NPC spawned in dead and add a blood puddle placeable where the head should be could really sell the idea that Selkath are ripping people apart. Maybe there's a way to make a severed head via the appearance.2da, render the body invisible making it a floating head NPC and have it die upon spawn so that it looks like a severed head in-game instead of an NPC... maybe severed arms could be added as Vibroblade models and these invisible NPCs can hold these severed arms as weapons, I don't believe weapons disappear from OnDeath scripted NPCs so this could work.

 

Pick a clothing texture for the scientists and add blood PNGs over it and play around with colors and layers to create a bloodied effect, this can make the corpses look brutalized and this works within our limitations. If a modder is able to play around with NPC models, remove an arm... or a leg... or an arm & a leg... and replace the socket with a bloodied texture and a little bone protruding out... maybe even modify a Republic Soldier's body model so that his ribcage is exposed from behind.

 

Maybe even change the area music and the overall sound of the level. This could be the area with the most freedom, I'd think a softer, gloomier area music would add to the experience... and a softerr, more urgent and desperate combat track could make the Selkath more intimidating.

 

Obviously don't make any of the above look like an Outcast game, instead a mod like this should work with the limitations of the Kotor engine. No matter what is done It'll never a genuinely scary experience, but if it's "scary" like the old Silent Hill games are then it could be a superior experience to the vanilla game.

 

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Actually Hard-to-Navigate Shadowlands

I have experimented with removing the K2 map in other levels, but doing so in that game breaks the "barking dialogue" feature so using it outside the Jekk Jekk Tatt wasn't really viable upon realizing that.

 

Of course, you could black out the map or add some sort of "Error" message that makes sense in-game. I do believe the pause menu is supposed to be the player's "Datapad", some NPCs do refer to the player owning a datapad so any static or error or blacked out map would have to be consistent with that game design.

 

Would restoring the cut Shadowland module be of any desire?

 

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Leviathan Command Deck Difficulty Increase

Not that this is exactly what you asked for, but in one of my Sith Soldier ideas for a mod is the concept of "Sith Marines", a Sith Soldier variant who appear only on the Leviathan. The idea is that Sith Soldiers and their variants have hide items that give Sith Soldiers different buffs based on what variant they are, the standard Sith Soldier would only have Immunity Poison so since Sith Soldiers would be removed from the Leviathan the Sith Marines would be stronger then the Soldiers of the base game.

 

Of course, I do plan on adding some of these Sith variants as standalone NPCs. So buffed Sith Commandos could guard the bridge doors and other unique Sith variants could have unique abilities that could increase the difficulty of Sith Soldiers you encounter.

 

Of course, any other changes do have to consider the Stealth feature. You don't want to add more Sith to the armory only for players to use Stealth to loot the room under their nose.

 

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Bastila Needs to Hide

I'm assuming this is referring to Operation Kill Bastla Remade? What exactly about that mod don't you like about it and how could another mod do the same thing but better?

 

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Leviathan Bridge Difficulty Increase

You see a contingent of battle droids in one of the Stunt cutscenes with Calo Noord or Bandon on the Bridge, maybe they could be either on or just outside the Bridge as guards.

 

Something I didn't like about the Bridge is how the Stunt cutscenes you see the Bridge is swarming with Crew Officers but when you arrive they're absent. Always thought it be cool to have like a ramp so that the player can get down to those out of reach control sections and fight some of those Officers.

 

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Comprehensive Melee Model/Texture Improvement

Well, if you aren't looking for HQ Blasters level of quality you could always use the K1 Melee Texture Enhancement mod.

 

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Unique Player Clothing

Like this?

 

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School is Good for You

Not sure if that attribute function exists in K1 like it does in K2. HK-47 gets his attribute stat increases through replacing his "Hide" item with a stronger hide, a "Hide" is an invisible background item which is worn by NPCs which the player cannot normally access. Every droid NPC has a hide which gives them Immunity to Poison and such.

 

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When I Say Leave, Leave

What you described is how Selven functions in the vanilla game, just make it like that so that their "I warned you" dialogue automatically fires before you can raid them.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

53 minutes ago, N-DReW25 said:

Every droid NPC has a hide

Also Canderous. Any UTC can equip one.

52 minutes ago, N-DReW25 said:

The NPC Deesra Luur Jada tells the player about the Terentatek on Dantooine

Can't say I'm a fan of the Yavin idea, but squid head there could stand to be moved off Dantooine. If you follow the recommended/canonical planet order and do Korriban last then you're never able to report back about what you find there. He probably needs to start on Dantooine in order to give you the existing breadcrumb, but maybe he could tell you he's flying off somewhere to do something for the Council and you can find him there afterwards. Tatooine seems like the only logical choice though, unless you added another planet or something like a space station.

[Snigaroo 119]

1 hour ago, N-DReW25 said:

The NPC Deesra Luur Jada tells the player about the Terentatek on Dantooine and you can return and tell him about the times you kill Terentateks on your journey.

Maybe this function can be co-opted into a full fledged side-quest which leads you to Yavin 4. By having it this way It'll prompt you to go to Yavin 4 with good reasons for doing so.

I don't have a problem with tying Deesra into the quest, but I do think that it shouldn't be available immediately after Dantooine and should be restricted until at least one Tarentatek had been fought. This would let Yavin be balanced more effectively, I feel, with less possible differences in player level to account for. Reasonably, the designer could assume that the player would likely be at minimum level 12 by the time they arrived there in that case, whereas, if available immediately after Dantooine, the player could be as low as level 9.

 

1 hour ago, N-DReW25 said:

As you've mentioned, making brand new "original" areas will be a problem. Whilst I agree that Motor Squad level of quality for Yavin 4 isn't desirable, players would probably forgive reusing areas if the graphics of these reused are at BOSSR level of quality.

Most mod users would probably not have issue with it, no, however for build inclusion reused modules aren't sufficiently seamless. Even though I adore LDR's Crashed Republic Cruiser, I only use it as-is because Hammerheads are all of the same vessel class, and thus it's believable that the one on Lehon looks broadly identical to the Endar Spire and Harbinger. Even then, I have issues with his reuse of the Manaan module for the underwater section, sufficient enough to bump the mod down from Essential to Recommended on my tier breakdown. In some other mod cases--such as back-porting the Enclave sublevel to KOTOR--"reusing" those modules would also be fine, because KOTOR 2 establishes that those areas exist, and all the mod would be doing is introducing them to a game where they are otherwise inaccessible. But for a mod like Yavin which is an entirely new planet, there's no wiggle room for identical layouts: the content would need to be novel. Which is why it's at the top, because I know that's a huge ask and would absolutely take a team to accomplish.

I do think there's a little bit of room to maneuver here; there's a lot of skills yet-untapped outside of the mod community, and I continue to think that 3d modelers in particular are probably to be found in relative abundance on reddit. Finding ones passionate enough to learn the KOTOR-specific tools they need and remain dedicated to the project over the long-term would likely be the biggest challenge, I think, but it's again worth remembering that I'm not demanding these mods be made. They're things that I'd like to see, and ultimately I'm hoping to inspire interest in, but I understand that many--Yavin especially--are huge asks. If it's found that the tools, modelers or interest just isn't there, that's entirely understandable.

 

1 hour ago, N-DReW25 said:

I know the Sandrale Estate got bombed to smithereens, but maybe the Matale Estate could serve as a Sith Garrison which could justify how it survived the occupation and become Khoonda.

Instead of Vrook or any one else important, why not use Deesra Luur Jada instead? He did canonically survive the bombardment.

 

36 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

Can't say I'm a fan of the Yavin idea, but squid head there could stand to be moved off Dantooine. If you follow the recommended/canonical planet order and do Korriban last then you're never able to report back about what you find there. He probably needs to start on Dantooine in order to give you the existing breadcrumb, but maybe he could tell you he's flying off somewhere to do something for the Council and you can find him there afterwards. Tatooine seems like the only logical choice though, unless you added another planet or something like a space station.

I don't think it's particularly interesting to use Deesra, in the sense that he's basically your Tarentatek nerd, not really with the same clout or gravitas as one of the Masters. I think, personally, that it would probably be more poignant to see a Master or two struggling to assist in the aftermath of the assault, frantic and fearful, rather than some random dork. It's canon that all the Masters survive also (they're in the LS ending), so it wouldn't be out of place for any of them to be present, though again I think Vandar should be missing so his survival is only discovered during the Dodonna cutscene at endgame.

I do agree with Parametric here that Deesra should be moved off-planet though, regardless of his status in any other quest/request, and I don't think Tatooine is a bad choice. JC's Trandoshan Tailor moves him to Tatooine after Dantooine's destruction and the builds also utilize that, so there could even be some level of interaction between the two mods, indicating that those that could fled the planet before the Sith assault on a ship that was bound for Tatooine. 

 

2 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

A major problem with returning to Dantooine is the fact that the population of Khoonda mostly despises the Jedi 5 years later, if the player came back and helped people that will really threaten the continuity. Instead of helping Dantooine survivors, why not go out on quests to help Jedi Survivors or Dantooine survivors with Force sensitive children escape from the Sith and help them get off world?

I don't think that the populace's hatred is incompatible with the Jedi trying to help them, nor even really unfounded. The Council did know that Dantooine's location had been compromised from the very start of the Jedi Civil War and did exactly nothing about it, and the Sith did only show up because the Jedi--knowingly--remained. One could argue that even a single Jedi convert to the Sith could've given up the location of any new hidden Academy the Jedi tried to found, and that's true enough, but it doesn't change human nature; it's more-or-less entirely reasonable, from a human perspective, for the settlers to blame the Jedi about what happened, even if the Jedi struggled to help in the aftermath. Indeed, I could even see a scene about that being included as part of the mod, with the player ungratefully chased off the planet by a mob of angry citizens even after doing all they could to help them.

Now, there should definitely be options for the player to return to Dantooine in a self-serving way, to try to loot as much as possible and take advantage of the chaos for their own benefit. But I think railroading even an LS player into entirely ignoring the suffering of civilians and focusing only on the Jedi is incongruous. While doing everything you can to help and still being reviled for it isn't exactly fitting with KOTOR's tone, I don't think it's actually incompatible with it either, at least at the point of the game that this would be coming. The destruction of Dantooine, the death of so many Jedi and the capture of Bastila is the game's thematic low point, its most despondent time. I think having a rather bleak look at Dantooine and a bitter conclusion to your best efforts to help would tie into that productively.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

This here is a Pre-Release Screenshot of Shuma the Hutt from before he was cut. Judging from the screenshot, he was replaced by So'laa.

Would you consider this request fulfilled if it was added to RC-K1CP? Or are you asking for a standalone mod for the Hutt, with maybe some custom content on the side to spice up his character (Maybe even add him to the Return to Dantooine mod as a Sith Collaborator)?

Very much the latter, yes. I think him being a Sith collaborator would be an excellent way to tie in why he was there on Dantooine, and what he was using his money (and ostensible influence over the local economy) for.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

The solution would be to turn the Hrakert station levels into an Outlast Game...

I wouldn't be inherently opposed to any of this except for altering the music track--I might situationally be okay with using K2 tracks in K1, but even that is a definitive "maybe" from me. Everything else, if it can be added and function seamlessly, I would be fine with seeing how it turns out ingame. I agree that the level can never be truly scary, but making it clear that the Selkath are actually dangerous is the main goal.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

I have experimented with removing the K2 map in other levels, but doing so in that game breaks the "barking dialogue" feature so using it outside the Jekk Jekk Tatt wasn't really viable upon realizing that.

Of course, you could black out the map or add some sort of "Error" message that makes sense in-game. I do believe the pause menu is supposed to be the player's "Datapad", some NPCs do refer to the player owning a datapad so any static or error or blacked out map would have to be consistent with that game design.

Would restoring the cut Shadowland module be of any desire?

I wasn't aware there was a cut Shadowlands module, though I'm not terribly surprised to hear it. What was its original purpose, do we know? And what state is it in--how much work would it take to put together in a functional capacity?

I do think Kashyyyk is quite short and another module would be helpful, especially if it could be used in conjunction with the lower shadowlands module, but what would be put there is another question. The stealthed Mandalorians from the lower Shadowlands could be moved there, maybe, but there would likely need to be something else.

As to the error message, yes I think that would work fine, as long as it was practicable to implement and looked decently okay ingame, including how it appears when the player is "traversing" the map on the minimap at the top-left.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

Not that this is exactly what you asked for, but in one of my Sith Soldier ideas for a mod is the concept of "Sith Marines", a Sith Soldier variant who appear only on the Leviathan. The idea is that Sith Soldiers and their variants have hide items that give Sith Soldiers different buffs based on what variant they are, the standard Sith Soldier would only have Immunity Poison so since Sith Soldiers would be removed from the Leviathan the Sith Marines would be stronger then the Soldiers of the base game.

Of course, I do plan on adding some of these Sith variants as standalone NPCs. So buffed Sith Commandos could guard the bridge doors and other unique Sith variants could have unique abilities that could increase the difficulty of Sith Soldiers you encounter.

Of course, any other changes do have to consider the Stealth feature. You don't want to add more Sith to the armory only for players to use Stealth to loot the room under their nose.

I would still want turrets and minefields at a minimum, but I'm not necessarily opposed to a new marine class, though in my opinion it would only make sense for them to occupy the barracks and not to be on the bridge. They would be shock troops, if we're using semi-modern marine cognates, not area defense.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

I'm assuming this is referring to Operation Kill Bastla Remade? What exactly about that mod don't you like about it and how could another mod do the same thing but better?

I tested that mod at release so you'll have to forgive a slightly spotty memory, but I recall that I definitely felt that the text description of the hood Bastila used wasn't well-written and seamless, and that its implementation was not necessarily instantly clear to the player. I would want something that would be sufficiently clear to any player, new and old: that means something that's totally seamless and easily-understood even if this is someone's first time playing the game. I recall thinking at the time that describing Bastila's need to hide herself in a descriptive text popup (like the ones KOTOR 2 uses, with explanations of mechanics put [in bracketing like this]) might be for the best.

I also don't remember what actually happens if you removed her hood (or if you even could), but I recall thinking that the hood should either be impossible to remove on Taris, or if you did remove it prior to Davik's estate and in view of any NPC it should be an instant game-over. I know that's probably hard as hell to implement in that manner, but something to that effect; it shouldn't just make visible Sith hostile to you. The moment they see her at all and radio it in, it's over.

Finally, I think I was also not crazy about the appearance of the hood and how it fit her body model necessarily, though again it's been some time.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

You see a contingent of battle droids in one of the Stunt cutscenes with Calo Noord or Bandon on the Bridge, maybe they could be either on or just outside the Bridge as guards.

Something I didn't like about the Bridge is how the Stunt cutscenes you see the Bridge is swarming with Crew Officers but when you arrive they're absent. Always thought it be cool to have like a ramp so that the player can get down to those out of reach control sections and fight some of those Officers.

Oh that would be good I think: two small turrets (the thin variety you see in the Sith Military Base on Taris, guarding the armory) next to Karath; guard droids outside the door; and a ramp leading down to the work stations of the officers, with the officers joining in the fight against you.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

Well, if you aren't looking for HQ Blasters level of quality you could always use the K1 Melee Texture Enhancement mod.

Indeed, however I think it actually suffers from too much of a 1:1. I think the colors used are jarring when in higher resolution, and that's why I say I think it's probably for the best not to use upscales or to try to borrow from the base textures precisely, because some of them are truly nonsense when you see them at higher resolution.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

Like this?

Similar in concept yes, though for that particular mod the clothing is much too strong (and @Leilukin even agrees with me, based on the mod description). She's made it clear it's not designed with balance in mind, and I didn't want to impose by requesting she retool it to fit my balance demands, since that's not the objective of the mod.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

Not sure if that attribute function exists in K1 like it does in K2. HK-47 gets his attribute stat increases through replacing his "Hide" item with a stronger hide, a "Hide" is an invisible background item which is worn by NPCs which the player cannot normally access. Every droid NPC has a hide which gives them Immunity to Poison and such.

Well, that's annoying. If it can't be done it can't be done, but I'll leave it up in case someone thinks of a way.

 

3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said:

What you described is how Selven functions in the vanilla game, just make it like that so that their "I warned you" dialogue automatically fires before you can raid them.

Yeah, that would be perfect.

[darthbdaman 71]

You can't add attributes, feats, or spells in K1. You can use hide items to simulate it, but it's not a perfect solution.

It's not clear what the lower shadowlands level had. There isn't anything left except the actual area itself. If you look through the list of K1 Modules, you can see plenty of missing letters and numbers though. These are the ones that are visibly missing based on numbering, but there are very likely others we will never know about.

• tar_m03ac (something in Taris Lower City, b and d are both present, so this very likely actually existed at some point)
• tar_m06 and tar_m07 (who knows, both numbers are completely skipped)
• tar_m10 (cut vulkar base level, this is the only basically finished cut level)
• tat_m19 (tatooine temple, in lost modules pack)
• m21aa (tatooine or korriban czerka depot, in lost modules pack)
• kas_m25ab (cut shadowlands level, only reason we know this exists is the models as it isn't obvious its missing, as there is no m25ac)
• m29-32 (who knows, between Manaan and Korriban numbering)

 

For the Great Hunt, I think having Deesra as a potential starter works fine. You talk to him, and get the great hunt meta quest, but if you find either of the journals first, it just skips that journal entry and immediately starts you on the Yavin part. I think structurally how you would get to Yavin is interesting here. I assume you still start by going to the station first? Would the planet then unlock on the galaxy map, or would you shuttle down from the station. I think either would be interesting. In the old days before new modules the shuttle would have worked quite well, as you could retexture the top of the Unknown World temple which has Bastila's shuttle there, but I can see how retextured modules are not desirable anymore.

[Snigaroo 119]

7 minutes ago, darthbdaman said:

You can't add attributes, feats, or spells in K1. You can use hide items to simulate it, but it's not a perfect solution.

No, far from it. I'll just remove that request; functionally there's no seamless way to implement it to the standards I would want.

 

7 minutes ago, darthbdaman said:

 think structurally how you would get to Yavin is interesting here. I assume you still start by going to the station first? Would the planet then unlock on the galaxy map, or would you shuttle down from the station. I think either would be interesting. In the old days before new modules the shuttle would have worked quite well, as you could retexture the top of the Unknown World temple which has Bastila's shuttle there, but I can see how retextured modules are not desirable anymore.

I think shuttle works best, because that way you have to go to the station first and encounter Suvam. For new players it would let them get the lore dump about Exar Kun before actually going down to the surface.

[Mephiles550 227]

For what little input I can suggest, my plan for Yavin 4 in Kotor in my head was to just use ported Dxun modules Thor110 provided and do the planet kinda in reverse. Using repurposed TSL modules in kotor as 'new' levels feels like the modern equivalent of just reskinning old Kotor modules.

If you could get permission from the animator, you basically already have the Yavin IV Ebon Hawk animations made.

IDK what you'd do for the temple hangar, here maybe get creative and imply it landed somewhere off screen like how it works for the Yavin Station in the vanilla game. You work your way from all the Mandalorian Base (abandoned military settlements around the temple), go through the two main jungle areas (remove the original TSL Ebon Hawk at the end of the first one), go the the temple exterior of Exar Kun (Freedon Nadd's modules) and fight a spirit of Exar Kun inside his (Nadd's) tomb or something. For some variety, the weapons caches could instead lead to a hidden modern Sith Base or something that's being used for... nefarious deeds or something. The Holocron toolset lets you create custom Sith bases, right? That could add some extra variety and more quests. This is just some brainstorming I had on a rainy day. I'm also a big fan of the cut Kotor modules, the cut Kashyyyk level and the cut Tatooine cave would work good for some kind of story relevance, the latter especially towards providing more hints about the Infinite Empire or Rakata

If you include the weapons cache with the droids (it feels so out of place I'm almost convinced it's just a repurposed old Tatooine Anchorhead module), combining all Dxun modules, a new Sith base and those two cut modules, that's 8 or 9 modules, something like that. On par with planets like Kashyyyk and Malachor in terms of length maybe. 

[Thor110 494]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:05 AM, Snigaroo said:

Actually Hard-to-Navigate Shadowlands

  Reveal hidden contents

The Shadowlands are referred to as this extremely dangerous zone of wild beasts and treacherous undergrowth, difficult to navigate and nigh-impossible to survive in. Except the only animals you see are Tach, Katarn and Kinrath, none of which are particularly threatening, and you very conveniently have a map the entire time.

The difficulty I don't believe can be solved adequately because it would take either making Katarn and Kinrath unrealistically difficult to fight OR adding different animals to the planet, none of which I think are more suited. There is the possibility of back-porting a small amount of Hssiss from K2 into the lower Shadowlands, I suppose, but I can't see any other creature from either game that would make sense down there, and a couple of Hssiss doesn't really solve the overall problem.

I am hoping that traversal, at least, can be addressed however. Removal of the map would be great; removal of the map until you get Jolee would be even better, with Jolee's presence restoring the map to you. I know the map can be removed per-module in K2, so I'm hoping removing it is at least possible in K1, but if the map absolutely can't be removed then adding in a modded map which is almost entirely wrong would also be an interesting way of going about this, where the player can't rely on the map to navigate because it's lying to them. That won't do much, due to the smallness of the area, but it's something.

 

I had an interesting idea for the lost shadowlands level that I was going to attempt in my port at some point that could potentially be used for KotOR1 as well, though I hadn't considered using it in this way but now I am thinking about it.

My idea was to add three area transitions that would lead you back to the same area, like the lost forest in the legend of Zelda games, where you have to go in a specific set of directions in order to reach your destination.

So it would be like go East, then North, then West or something, each time you enter the level it could spawn a random arrangement of enemies based on whichever direction you have taken and eventually you could come out near Jolee's Hut or the Star Map.

I was just going to have it as an extra area behind the log where Freyyr can be found roaming, but this might be a better use of it.

[Snigaroo 119]

1 hour ago, Mephiles550 said:

Using repurposed TSL modules in kotor as 'new' levels feels like the modern equivalent of just reskinning old Kotor modules.

I appreciate the brainstorming, however for exactly this reason this would still not be something I'd be willing to consider for build inclusion. Making use of cut modules such as the Tatooine temple is fine, given that those don't actually appear in the course of the normal game (though of course a Tatooine module is of dubious worth for a Yavin project). But it wouldn't be seamless for a player to play KOTOR and have a reskinned Dxun-as-Yavin and then go on to KOTOR 2 and see Dxun again. This is why I made it explicit in the request that that particular request absolutely would require the use of new modules, there's just no way to make the project sufficiently seamless without original modeling work.

 

1 hour ago, Thor110 said:

I had an interesting idea for the lost shadowlands level that I was going to attempt in my port at some point that could potentially be used for KotOR1 as well, though I hadn't considered using it in this way but now I am thinking about it.

My idea was to add three area transitions that would lead you back to the same area, like the lost forest in the legend of Zelda games, where you have to go in a specific set of directions in order to reach your destination.

So it would be like go East, then North, then West or something, each time you enter the level it could spawn a random arrangement of enemies based on whichever direction you have taken and eventually you could come out near Jolee's Hut or the Star Map.

I was just going to have it as an extra area behind the log where Freyyr can be found roaming, but this might be a better use of it.

I actually love this idea, that's something I was considering as well but thought it might be impractical to implement. If it can be done I would love to try it, my only concern being that it might wind up being frustrating or confusing for the player. There would need to be some method to "solve" the puzzle added, and I think it would also need to be used in conjunction with removing or falsifying the area maps in some way or else it would just seem too much like taunting the player and not simulating the difficulty of Shadowlands traversal.

[Thor110 494]

5 minutes ago, Snigaroo said:

I actually love this idea, that's something I was considering as well but thought it might be impractical to implement. If it can be done I would love to try it, my only concern being that it might wind up being frustrating or confusing for the player. There would need to be some method to "solve" the puzzle added, and I think it would also need to be used in conjunction with removing or falsifying the area maps in some way or else it would just seem too much like taunting the player and not simulating the difficulty of Shadowlands traversal.

Could add a counter that means if you get lost for too long, Jolee find's you, that way the sequence and dialog from where you follow him to his hut could still be used.

[Snigaroo 119]

2 minutes ago, Thor110 said:

Could add a counter that means if you get lost for too long, Jolee find's you, that way the sequence and dialog from where you follow him to his hut could still be used.

That's a workable solution. I'd want to see how it behaves ingame, and especially for something like this I'd like to see a video of it in an early alpha state just to see how the modules join together, but I like the sound of it.

[Thor110 494]

2 hours ago, Snigaroo said:

That's a workable solution. I'd want to see how it behaves ingame, and especially for something like this I'd like to see a video of it in an early alpha state just to see how the modules join together, but I like the sound of it.

It's just an idea for now, but it's perfectly workable.

Just requires some creative thinking to actually implement.

The best way to do this would be to fill the lost shadowlands with a set of waypoints.

The North, East & West transitions with a level exit that sets a Boolean value after resetting the previous value if it isn't the correct one, if it is the correct one, don't reset it, if it isn't increase a number variable as a counter to ensure you can't get lost for too long, on entering the level you would check these values and spawn an encounter accordingly, on exit you would have to delete any remnants of previous encounters because the level would be the same level you are returning to.

It's fairly simple in theory, in practice, making it fun and ensuring it plays out well, not so simple.

Definitely an idea that has been at the top of my list for a while now, but as I mentioned I was just going to use it as an extra area in the port that could lead somewhere or something, I hadn't really worked out the details of what I would do with it yet, just that I had considered doing the same thing as the lost forest in Zelda.

Annoyingly you have now piqued my interest as I think this could play out really well, but it also requires a complete rework of the other two shadowlands levels.

That could be simplified to just reworking the first area a little bit, depending on how you want it to play out.

 

I would probably simplify it as much as possible to reduce the amount of work and stick an area transition where the first set of enemies are as you turn the corner, before turning another corner and encountering Jolee, at which point you would then be in the lost forest, after say four area transitions, I would spawn a copy of the Jolee encounter, or transition the player back to the first level just around the first corner, with an area transition behind you that turns you back, similar to the desert in Tatooine, unless you have encountered Jolee, or visited the Star Map, in order to try and prevent the player getting lost twice it would probably have to be the Star Map, which would limit your ability to return and leave you lost in the forest until you have found the Star Map.

 

Or Jolee could inform you of the direction to take in the Lost Forest and provide a journal entry, which would ensure you can come and go as you please, as for the VO around this, I think he does say at some point it's easy to get lost, so it could probably just be appended to the current journal entry.

 

From there it's just a matter of setting up variations of encounters in the lost shadowlands that spawn and despawn as you come and go.

 

All sounds simple enough... but making it dynamic and compatible with other mods, might be tricky... if not impossible...

 

Certainly sounds fun though.

[Snigaroo 119]

9 minutes ago, Thor110 said:

All sounds simple enough... but making it dynamic and compatible with other mods, might be tricky... if not impossible...

Mod compatibility would be the only possible dealbreaker, aside from the case that it winds up just not being fun.

As much as I like the idea, it might be better to try to isolate the entire thing to the new module itself. Can a module transition to itself? If, rather than splitting off the first Shadowlands area, the module was instead used as a transition module between the upper and lower shadowlands, the "maze" module could just keep putting the player back in its own module until they found the right "combination" to exit it. Since all the changes would then be isolated to the modded module, mod compatibility would be preserved.

[Thor110 494]

6 minutes ago, Snigaroo said:

Mod compatibility would be the only possible dealbreaker, aside from the case that it winds up just not being fun.

As much as I like the idea, it might be better to try to isolate the entire thing to the new module itself. Can a module transition to itself? If, rather than splitting off the first Shadowlands area, the module was instead used as a transition module between the upper and lower shadowlands, the "maze" module could just keep putting the player back in its own module until they found the right "combination" to exit it. Since all the changes would then be isolated to the modded module, mod compatibility would be preserved.

it would be possible to change the transition with the elevator to a new module, but doing this could potentially also break compatibility.

I think the best bet for maintaining mod compatibility would be to inject the new transitions and triggers directly into that fist module, removing that first set of Katarns and placing a trigger and transition at both ends of it, one leading to the lost forest and one leading back to it, that way mod compatibility could be ensured, provided no one decides to alter those Katarns.

Which is extremely unlikely.

It would result in next to no changes to the two vanilla modules, except added trigger warpzones, an added dialog file and some scripts, then the lost shadowlands level and it's functionality could sit in-between those triggers.

A further waypoint could be added so that if you exit the lost forest under the right conditions you encounter Jolee fighting the Katarns upon entering, such as getting lost, otherwise, you would encounter him naturally, by walking around that corner where the first set of Katarns usually are.

It might feel a little rough though as I am pretty sure you can see the lift from around the corner, if you cannot, it should feel perfectly fine.

Though this sort of thing could take days to weeks of solid work to properly construct.

Not to mention all the testing and slight tweaks to improve it's functionality.

I also considered doing something similar with the Dune Sea, but realistically that one would require a new level to be made that had four exits, fairly simple to do, but doing this type of thing twice in the game, wouldn't feel right at all.

One problem I can foresee is loot being left in the lost forest from previous encounters, or dead bodies remaining, but I think that could be worked out by not dropping any loot on the encounters within, as for the dead bodies, that would begin to depend on if the user is using a mod to prevent them from disappearing as if I recall there is one, at least for TSL I believe there is, not certain about K1 right this second.

If there isn't, it might be possible to have a short time dialog saying you venture forth north, east or west in order to account for those bodies disappearance so that they don't remain there as you return.

Then there's the issue of what to spawn, where, when, why and under what circumstances...

[Snigaroo 119]

15 minutes ago, Thor110 said:

One problem I can foresee is loot being left in the lost forest from previous encounters, or dead bodies remaining, but I think that could be worked out by not dropping any loot on the encounters within, as for the dead bodies, that would begin to depend on if the user is using a mod to prevent them from disappearing as if I recall there is one, at least for TSL I believe there is, not certain about K1 right this second.

There is a bodies stay mod for K1, yes. I don't recommend its use in the builds, so from the builds' perspective this wouldn't be an issue, but it's still probably a good idea to consider how to handle it for general mod interoperability.

17 minutes ago, Thor110 said:

Then there's the issue of what to spawn, where, when, why and under what circumstances...

Modders have way more experience than I do in this respect so I think the best thing I could probably suggest is just "do what seems fun," within reason. As long as whatever spawns appears on Kashyyyk and isn't a Tarentatek, I don't think I would have seamlessness concerns about it.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

5 hours ago, darthbdaman said:

m29-32 (who knows, between Manaan and Korriban numbering)

M31AA - Sleheyron Arena A (CUT)
M31AB - Sleheyron Arena B (CUT)
M31AD - Sleheyron Arena D (CUT)

[darthbdaman 71]

I forgot those were found. So 29 through 32 were almost certainly all Sleheyron

[Thor110 494]

1 minute ago, Snigaroo said:

There is a bodies stay mod for K1, yes. I don't recommend its use in the builds, so from the builds' perspective this wouldn't be an issue, but it's still probably a good idea to consider how to handle it for general mod interoperability.

Good to know, I am not entirely sure how I would handle that as while testing my KotOR Chess idea a little while back, I found out that you cannot use DestroyObject(); on a dead body, for whatever reason, perhaps there is another method that could be used.

Here is where I would place the three waypoints (1,2 & 3) and two trigger zones (1 & 2) while removing the ( I think ) two Katarn that lie in-between the first two points.

This "should" absolutely ensure mod compatibility.

Then there's the lost forest, which doesn't have an actual map, but that could be used to mystify the area somewhat, or the map could be disabled ( at least it can in TSL, not sure if it's possible in K1, but if it isn't, then no map would suffice )

I'm really tempted to make a start on this idea as it sounds like it could add a great deal to the game in just giving the Shadowlands a lot more depth.

Given that I could construct the base functionality of it in no time at all especially.

Would you be willing and able to actively test this if I were to start working on it? As I would appreciate your feedback on how it would play.

It would also be possible to add random events to this, such as a lost NPC or perhaps even specific loot, my thinking is by using the Kashyyyk variable that controls the random single line dialogs that some NPCs can speak, this would also make it highly likely that you would get a different event or set of circumstances with each playthrough of the game.

A lost NPC could be a Wookie perhaps, or maybe even Komad Fortuna if you have already encountered him once of course, this would remove the need for non-alien VO.

I am starting to wonder how many other unique possibilities could be added, but I think this is limited to a combination of how many turns the player takes through North, East & West, the counter for those turns and the random dialog variable, but when taking three booleans into account, along with a random dialog counter, that I think goes up to 8, but might be able to go higher, along with the counter, all of a sudden there is the possibility for a lot of variation.

[DarthParametric 3,782]

8 hours ago, Snigaroo said:

What was its original purpose, do we know?

Only speculation as far as I know. The likely assumption is that this was the original intended location of the Star Map, but they ended up cutting it because adding a third level just made getting to it an unnecessary slog. But given the various interjections by Zaalbar in existing Shadowlands DLGs, it seems clear that he was intended to accompany you at one point at least.

8 hours ago, Snigaroo said:

what state is it in--how much work would it take to put together in a functional capacity?

The level itself is fully textured and lightmapped. But there's no actual content for it. So the amount of work remaining to turn it into something playable is basically "all of it".

 

[Snigaroo 119]

1 hour ago, Thor110 said:

Would you be willing and able to actively test this if I were to start working on it? As I would appreciate your feedback on how it would play.

Being 100% honest, it would probably be easier for you to take quick videos of the gameplay and send it to me than it would be for me to get a test setup. I need to keep my build installs preserved as-is locally for testing and troubleshooting, and while that's not insurmountable I'd need to zip them up and move them elsewhere so I could reinstall a blank-slate version of the game to test the shadowlands tweaks. I'm more than happy to help, it's just probably easier for me to watch clips than for me to get my own setup in a position to run through it myself, at least until you're at a definite release candidate stage.

1 hour ago, Thor110 said:

It would also be possible to add random events to this, such as a lost NPC or perhaps even specific loot, my thinking is by using the Kashyyyk variable that controls the random single line dialogs that some NPCs can speak, this would also make it highly likely that you would get a different event or set of circumstances with each playthrough of the game.

The randomness element I like quite a bit, and particularly the idea of running into Komad down there. That was another thing I thought about possibly requesting, but thought would be difficult to introduce him down there in a natrual manner with the way the current Shadowlands is set up.

[Thor110 494]

14 minutes ago, Snigaroo said:

I need to keep my build installs preserved as-is locally for testing and troubleshooting, and while that's not insurmountable I'd need to zip them up and move them elsewhere so I could reinstall a blank-slate version of the game to test the shadowlands tweaks.

A suggestion, something I do for testing multiple builds of TSL, is to just keep a copy of the vanilla game install in the Steam folder, I then duplicate it and rename it to append " - Vanilla" and install what I need to the installation, from there I can run as many builds of the game as I want, I just rename the folders back and forth.

This is very helpful for me as it means I can swap back and forth by just renaming them.

18 minutes ago, Snigaroo said:

I'm more than happy to help, it's just probably easier for me to watch clips than for me to get my own setup in a position to run through it myself, at least until you're at a definite release candidate stage.

Well, I just got the base of it all setup already, which is only the two triggers, an additional waypoint and the lost shadowlands level, along with three booleans.

So nothing yet really, but every little detail counts, so "The Lost Forest" - yes or no? ( Feel free to drop me a line on Discord or in DM's if you wish to prevent a constant back and forth in this thread )

19 minutes ago, Snigaroo said:

The randomness element I like quite a bit, and particularly the idea of running into Komad down there. That was another thing I thought about possibly requesting, but thought would be difficult to introduce him down there in a natrual manner with the way the current Shadowlands is set up.

My current thought is to have one set of waypoints to spawn loot at, dynamically through a script, using a basic string and integer number setup to randomly select what placeable type spawns where and under what conditions.

Then another set of waypoints for spawning enemies, again with a similar system to try and ensure that the map doesn't feel the same every time you pass through it.

As well as a set of waypoints for the random encounters, so that they could be at different spots each playthrough too.

So pretty much just three widely dispersed sets of waypoints, in an otherwise empty map, a nice break from the Tach's too.

An onEnter script would then check the boolean values and some other conditions and setup the map accordingly, while an onExit script would depopulate the area.

 

The Kashyyyk patrons don't actually use a banter variable like I first thought, but instead use a return random value starting conditional, which is much more efficient and versatile.

There are actually 11 G_Banter booleans in KotOR1 that go completely unused, I guess they were never used in the end as a better way was found to condition the dialogs.

I'm not 100% sure which values I should use to determine the conditions because of this now, but I suppose I can just use the Random() function which would give me a much higher level of control over the amount of things that can change and how much they can change, along with the Booleans for which direction the player has just travelled from.

 

It will feel a little strange though, getting the elevator all the way down to the ground level and then being confronted with a transition straight away, what are your thoughts on this?

I am considering adding another trigger and dialog that says something along the lines of "It's easy to get lost in the forest" maybe I should replay Ocarina of Time or watch a playthrough and find a quote or reference for the fun of it. ( pretty sure there's a good one out there somewhere )

 

Will get the basic functionality setup and go from there, in the meantime if you have any thoughts or if you know of any cut content that could be used here, let me know.

Or if you want to dream up a written story to go into a datapad as another random encounter, so that it isn't just Komad & some lost Wookie, but a human written datapad about someone's journey lost in the forest, that will give three random encounters, which is a nice amount to start with.

If not, I guess I could write something too, you just seem to really go all-in when discussing the possibilities and immersion of the game, it's story, it's flaws and things like this, so I figured you might enjoy the opportunity.

I tend to focus on functionality, but we will see what happens. ( if anyone else has ideas too, feel free to pitch in, but don't go too wild, just things that make sense lore-wise )

[Snigaroo 119]

11 hours ago, Thor110 said:

( Feel free to drop me a line on Discord or in DM's if you wish to prevent a constant back and forth in this thread )

I will take you up on that since I don't want our conversation to discourage others from talking about other requests or suggestions here--we'll move to coordinating this in DMs.

[Salk 373]

I'm particularly interested in the following:

Restored Swoop Upgrade Functionality

It always bothered me that there is no way to upgrade the bike. I have personally worked on making the times to beat on the circuits a much more believable matter, but I would welcome the chance of having some upgrade to the swoop bike available. For complexity's sake, I'd limit it to a one-time event.

Bastila Needs to Hide

I never had the chance to test Operation Kill Bastla Remade yet, but it seems to me that there is no need to re-invent the wheel. That mod seems to do already what should be done. The textures could be improved and perhaps some other tweaks may be beneficial. But I'd rather collaborate with the author of the mod to make it better rather than start from scratch.

Mission Needs to Pay Attention

This one can almost be considered a fix. I will work on it.

Going into Shock is Good for You

I think I've locally already dealt with it so that you don't get the DS points if you're actually helping the prisoner. Not sure about giving LS points though.

When I Say Leave, Leave

Going the Selven way is fine and dandy, but I think a player on stealth should bypass the second trigger without problems though. I don't remember what happens if you try to sneak in Selven's room while in stealth mode, but in Selven's case I'd go for an automatic detection.

 

 

[Snigaroo 119]

17 minutes ago, Salk said:

It always bothered me that there is no way to upgrade the bike. I have personally worked on making the times to beat on the circuits a much more believable matter, but I would welcome the chance of having some upgrade to the swoop bike available. For complexity's sake, I'd limit it to a one-time event.

I understand that logic, however at least two merchants mention carrying swoop parts: the Rodian Czerka clerk on Tatooine and the Ithorian droid merchant on Manaan. That's not to say that two upgrades are mandatory, but maybe it should be that one of those two must be interacted with to perform the upgrade, and once you've upgraded your bike the dialogue about buying swoop parts from them is removed from their rotation of possible greetings.

 

17 minutes ago, Salk said:

Bastila Needs to Hide

I never had the chance to test Operation Kill Bastla Remade yet, but it seems to me that there is no need to re-invent the wheel. That mod seems to do already what should be done. The textures could be improved and perhaps some other tweaks may be beneficial. But I'd rather collaborate with the author of the mod to make it better rather than start from scratch.

@Hunters Run is still active, so yes certainly this is an option. I am always hesitant to ask modders to change content that they've already produced to fit my standards, unless they've specifically requested build consideration. However, if he's amenable and willing to bear with me probably needing a month or two before I can do a test playthrough of the mod and make a definitive list of what I'd want to see out of an update, I of course have no problem working with the existing mod.

 

17 minutes ago, Salk said:

Going into Shock is Good for You

I think I've locally already dealt with it so that you don't get the DS points if you're actually helping the prisoner. Not sure about giving LS points though.

Well, as I see it, the "neutral" option would just be not interacting with him at all. He's requesting you put him into shock because he thinks that he can survive while preserving the location of his stash, and the alternative is death of continued imprisonment. To me it seems like an LS decision, though I would have absolutely no problem with a mod which had two install options, one just removing the DS and the other changing it to LS.

 

17 minutes ago, Salk said:

When I Say Leave, Leave

Going the Selven way is fine and dandy, but I think a player on stealth should bypass the second trigger without problems though. I don't remember what happens if you try to sneak in Selven's room while in stealth mode, but in Selven's case I'd go for an automatic detection.

Yes, I agree, I just didn't know if that was easily scriptable. Stealthed players shouldn't trigger aggro from the guests while looting their junk, as long as they remain undetected.