zbyl2

Lets see... Kreia - the end boss, so she obviously has to die. T3-M4 - survives. HK-47 - survives. Atton - survives or not, it's up to you if you win the fight vs Sion. Handmaiden - survives unless you piss her off and she fights Visas (in which case her fate is unknown) Visas - survives unless you choose to kill her on the Ravager Mira - survives unless you're dark side or lose to Hanharr Hanharr - unknown (if DS) Mandalore - survives Disciple - survives, unless he fights Atton, in which case his fate is not known (probably dead) G0-T0 - might die, depending on your choices in the HK factory Bao-Dur - unknown, potentially dead. How is that "dropping like flies" and "not having any choice"?

They just took bunch of screenshots of whatever looked cool without worrying about it actually being in the game, as proved by having HK-47 on Taris on the same cover. There was an alternate version with a giant rancor in an arena, too.

Actually, it would be pretty interesting to have a star wars game set entirely on only one planet.

It's from the oldest design doc I could find for the planet. Very next one has this instead [CHANGES]Selkath related material was here previously and has been removed.[/CHANGES] so it's very likely you don't remember it or never even read that one.

To be honest I had the same urge for a minute when watching all the footage with VP few months ago but I quickly realized how much time it would take and never seriously considered it. I wish someone finished it though. But it needs bead-v and his camera animations.

Well, why don't you just follow the dark side and GIVE IN TO YOUR URGES.

Well there was one mod aiming to do something similar, y'know. Little project. Malachor VI, they called it.

I was looking through our old design doc trying to find some interesting random tidbits I could share. I was going to make a post about a Sith Survivor, but I found something in a document from early 2009 that even I barely remembered... at some point, before I even properly joined a team, we were planning to have some Selkath/Manaan connections on a planet. I left a small reference to that in the "Interstellar Transport" side quest, but it used to be much bigger than that. Following are unedited quotes from said design docs. I'm honestly not sure who wrote it (might have been Sharen Thrawn, or Stoney, as I believe it was mostly the two of them writing first version of the plot for EP). Landing Arm: You can also ask LS-44 why does the Landing Arm is in such a mess state (with the docking claws broken, visible sings of some kind of explosion etc). He explains that soon before the radiation leaked into the Industrial and Central Zone, a small freighter with medical supply, that was being provided weekly to the colony by an outside contractor, got stuck in the docking claws right after landing. LS-44 continues by saying that crew of the ship as well as M4-78 droids were trying to fix the Landing Arm’s systems and free the freighter, but it proved to be impossible because of the freighter’s heavy weight, caused mainly by high amount of cargo stored. The freighter’s crew got an order to move the whole cargo out of the vessel to reduce the weight. LS-44 says that it helped making progress on getting the ship out of the claws but shortly after that, a series of incidents that occurred in the colony made the crew of the freighter take more drastic methods. When the radiation leaked into the colony, the freighter’s crew panicked as they thought they were under attack. They decided to flee from the planet as soon as possible, thus they had to blew up the docking claws to free their freighter as there was no time to try to free it using conventional methods. They made out as it seems. Later on, and this is kinda linked to the "Sith Survivor" as you needed to get Kolto to cure him: You have to get the kolto from contractor yourself. You go to speak with the droid representative of his who is watching the medical cargo in the Storage Room ( In-7). The droid says that his supervisor refused to sell additional kolto to the Sith’s droid. You order him to contact you with the Selkath anyway. A hologram of a Selkath appears. The Selkath says that he will not be making anymore deals with the Sith or their droids. You can ask him why doesn’t he want to make a deal with the droids/Sith. Selkath explains that:Revan was LS: After the Jedi Civil War, Manaan ended all business relationships with the Sith, as it proved to be a bad deal for them overall. Revan was DS: After the Sith Civil War on Korriban, the Sith themselves ended business relationships with Manaan and never showed any interest in purchasing the kolto from the Selkath again. Selkath contractor says that he was always against the idea of making deals with the Sith and many other ideas the Manaan government was forcing, which was the reason he decided to distribute the kolto independently. He was contacted by the droids to make a deal and supply kolto to M4-78. He didn’t even know about the planet’s existence. The droids introduced themselves as representatives of the planet’s Colonists, he wasn’t aware that the Colonists were the Sith. Apart from regular shipments, the droids demanded only that he will not tell about the deal to anyone and/or reveal the location of the planet and that the shipments will be delivered to M4-78 by droids only. Selkath was a bit suspicious about this whole thing, but the droids said that their Colonists offer a double payment. Selkath contractor couldn’t decline to such offer as it was hard for a small, independent supplier to obtain the kolto and especially the clients. He says that his freighters and the crew were always waited on by the droids only on M4-78. It wasn’t until the shipment of kolto before the last one that one of his droid crew members actually spotted a officer on the planet and informed his supervisor about that. Selkath contractor was terrified, but couldn’t break the deal knowing who he was actually dealing with thus he sent another shipment of kolto but this time things went wrong. The freighter got stuck on the Landing Pad and when the radiation leaked and he ordered his droid crew to escape from the planet, his ship was shoot down. One of his droid representatives (which he deputized to watch for cargo in the Industrial Zone for the time the rest of the crew was trying to free the freighter that was carrying the last shipment and got stuck in the docking claws) informed him then that all the Sith (save one) has been killed in the radiation leak in the colony. If he won’t sell the droids additional kolto, the very last Sith will die eventually too which would make the droids end the deal with him soon after that (as they don’t need kolto themselves). This way, he won’t have to pay a ridiculous high penalty for breaking the contract prematurely. Thus, he will just wait and as he says, the problem will fix itself. But you can’t wait for one knows how long for the last Sith’s death, especially since the droids will do everything to sustain his life as long as they can. You have couple of options of persuading the Selkath contractor to sell the kolto so you can save the Sith. You ask if the Selkath contractor will agree to sell the kolto to the droids in exchange for breaking his contract with them immediately (thus ending his business with the Sith without having to wait till the last of them dies). He agrees on that. You have to speak with the command droid ( In-6) again and explain him that in exchange for a kolto, the Selkath contractor demands ending the contract between him and the Sith. The command droid says that only the droid unit that actually made/signed the actual contract could break it. He explains that the contract was made by one of the medical droids in the Medical Unit ( In-1). He advises you to speak with them. You head to the medical droids. When you explain the situation to the droid that made the contract, he explains that the droids would have to pay a ridiculous sanction for breaking the contract prematurely just as the Selkath would have as he explained it already earlier on. Neutral option: You can agree on financing the termination of the contract. Other options: You can ask “ In-1” to have a look at the contract and it’s terms and conditions. The Terms and Conditions that are interesting for you are: “ In case the contractor’s license expires, the contract can be terminated without having the client pay a penalty for doing it.” You have to ask the Selkath contractor about his license. He will refuse to tell you anything about it. But his droid will provide you all the information he possesses. It appears that the Selkath contractor’s license on exporting kolto has recently expired and due to long bureaucracy procedures on Manaan, he still hasn’t obtained a new one which. LS option: You tell the “ In-1” droid about it and say that he can now end the contract without any consequences. When the Selkath contractor hears about it, he begs you to now inform the Manaan government about it. He says that he knows he shouldn’t operate in the time he awaits for his license renewal, but in those hard times and because of the family he has he couldn’t afford to sustain his operations. You assure him that you would never do such thing and refuse to accept a discount on Selkath cargo. DS option: You blackmail the Selkath contractor to inform the Manaan government that he operates without a valid license. The Selkath contractor will agree to break the contract himself, give the kolto to the droids for free and additionally provide you a discount for the rest of his cargo just so you don’t ruin him. After the contract is broken, you can choose a class of kolto to buy from the contractor. Selkath explains that there are containers of high-class kolto but also a couple of cheap containers of a much less effective low-class kolto, often obtained by the miners who can’t afford the higher-class one. The decision is yours. LS option: You choose the high-class kolto that will restore the Sith survivor to a perfect condition. DS option: You chose the low-class kolto which although will curse the Sith survivor, many scars and wounds will remain.. It doesn't explain how we suddenly got kolto on M4-78 though. Still would be kinda neat to have a cameo from a Selkath. Tidbit from the Environmental Zone description: There is a wreck of the Selkath freighter (the one that got stuck in the docking claws on the Landing Arm) in the 3rd Recharge Station (we will need a new model for it but I think it wouldn’t be much of a problem?). Bodies of the droid crew of the freighter that fell out when the ship crashed are scattered all over the 3rd Recharge Station area and the Outer Defense Region. More non-combat hacking options on that zone, linked to said ship: 3. Outer Defense Region – to deal with the four turrets and heavy combat droids, you have to access the Selkath freighter computer and blow up the bodies of the droids that are scattered in the Outer Defense room. This will destroy the droids and the turrets. Additional explanation for how Vash and Kaah got to the planet, which kinda contradicts the holo-recording we set up on Korriban. ... how they found out about the Sith here in the first place. ES-05 says that Vash and Kaah told her that they were trying to discover the location of the Sith main bases. In order to do so, Kaah was monitoring all the kolto suppliers on Manaan, as it was the only source of kolto in the galaxy and it was logical to them that the Sith would need to get it from there too, just like they used to due in the times of the Jedi Civil War. Kaah finally managed to find a Sith trace that leaded to M4-78 while spying on a small independent supplier. When they decided to come to the planet, they sneaked into a small freighter of that Selkath supplier on Manaan, hidden inside the kolto containers and get into the colony when the freighter docked in the M4-78’s Landing Arm. They damaged the docking claws to get the freighter stuck in the Landing Arm so they could have a ship to escape from the planet. Then, they managed to deactivate the Guardian Droid in the Central Zone and sneak into the Environmental Zone where no Sith were present. Finally they found ES-05. They were sure the Sith were pretending to be the planet’s Colonists and wanted ES-05’s help in getting rid of them. She agreed to help them if they were able to prove that the Sith were indeed lying. After they did, ES-05 agreed to help them by allowing Kaah to use her systems to spike into the security systems (something she wasn’t allowed to do) and release cause the radiation to leak into the colony. [...] Also, you can ask about the wreck of the Selkath freighter you saw in the Environmental Zone. ES-05 explains that when the Selkath freighter took off from the Landing Arm, Kaah assumed those were the Sith who tried to escape from the planet and fired at them. The crew tried to fight back by bombarding the Environmental Zone (hence the holes visible in the Zone) but Kaah managed to shoot the ship down. It crashed in the Environmental Zone. When ES-05 checked the security cameras, it turned out that those were only the droids of the Selkath contractor from Manaan. Apparently there was another step before we could reactivate and talk to L5-65. I don't think anyone is going to be sad about it being cut out: When you ask her how you can set up an independent connection between her and L5-65, she explains that the computer on the Selkath freighter may still be working. If it is, a slave circuit could be installed on it allowing ES-05 to control it and use it’s communication systems. ES-05 gives you a slave circuit to install. You head back to the Environmental Zone and attach the slave circuit to the ship’s computer. You can do it now, or after you reactivate L5-65. That's it for Selkath/Manaan references. There's a lot more interesting stuff in those docs, some if it good, some of it really bad, but it's interesting to read after all these years and look at various ideas we've had over the course of the development. I wish we could access the lucasforums and see the discussions we had on that group. I'll post more random tidbits like that if people are interested.

It's so weird to see someone refer to MCA as "Mr A". Funnily enough he'd agree with a lot of your comments, especially when it comes to having too many companions. You're completely wrong when you say that development schedule shouldn't impact the story. Of course it should, you could easily implement all that content if you had two more months, and you could flesh them out even more if you had another few weeks. And crapping on M4-78 in these kinds of rants is kinda pointless because we really don't know what was planned for that planet or how it was supposed to fit with the rest of the game. People don't seem to realize how little of M4-78's plot was left and how much of my mod is purely made up. And Goto is a really cool character, there's just no incentive to talk to him to actually find out about it lol. He's also pretty useful in combat in droid heavy areas.

"Make my sacrifice matter"? An out of context demo line doesn't really help us. Well, not really since he disappears anyway even if you don't find the factory. Atton has a different reaction depending on whether you triggered that quest or not ("now that you mention it, where did he run off to?" vs "oh yeah. HK-47 also").

There's no indication in game files as to what happened to him, so there's nothing we can do about it. He disappears just before battle of Telos (as noted by Grenn) and is never seen again.

Very cool! I always hoped we could do some sort of regular deadlystream podcasts, but we never got around to it. Good to see someone else starting KOTOR podcast series

Dude. Spoilers.

Huh, I don't remember that version of the puzzle. I've got a similar one though, which we scrapped for being too complex. Sorry for the quality, that's the best I could get out of a word document. I recall you being against even having a mandatory puzzle that late into the planet.

That's true, unfortunately, except for stuff that actually made it into some kind of design document or another. I actually still have quite a few of those, called storyline, storyline_old (written in '09! before TSLRCM was even a thing), storyline_ver_4_1... they could probably be mined for some interesting ideas we had back then. I think one of them might have another droid faction, similar to what you mentioned. I've also got two different IZ.2_Draft_2_by_JC - but the Ind Zone ended up being pretty much what you described in it, IIRC. And I've got this thing in M4-78 screenshots folder. Image dates back to 2010... anyone remembers what that was about? Because I don't.

If anyone else is interested in giving it a go, now is the time to say so.

There are two fights now. One vs Atton, one vs Exile.

It's been long enough that I think we should be able to freely discuss the mod's development and content we scrapped during it

Hassat, you don't seem to understand what he's getting at here. You seem to be thinking about how the planets are connected but you're completely ignoring game's themes. To give a more obvious example, think about how often the game talks about the past, be it your own, your companions or the Jedi and galaxy in general. Dxun (and by extension Onderon) fits right into it, because that's where you fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Korriban plays with that theme in the tomb. Goto is all about fixing the galaxy after the Jedi Civil War, and Nar Shaddaa as well as the whole Jedi bounty plot is basically an extension of his character. Dantooine is obvious. M4-78's got nothing. There's a lot of things we can argue about when it comes to M4-78, but it is definitely much more stand alone than any other planet in the game.

What makes you think I thought you were bashing the mod? I started my reply with saying I agree with you.

No, yeah, I agree, it's definitely more of a stand alone thing. Wish we kept the Sith Survivor plot, then we could probably have him talk about the whole planet being almost death in the Force due to it being populated by machines, which would have reinforced game's themes a bit better. Still, Vash does fill in an important plot detail, in a way, as she has more comments about the Force Bond than other masters. Nah, M4-78EP was never really meant as a restoration, it's mostly custom content. There's barely anything left from the planet except for few major plot points, and we filled in the blanks between them.

Regarding Mira vs Hanharr, it is definitely needed. VP talked about moving it somewhere else, but it can't really happen anytime later, because it has to take place before you get to see party members vs assassins at the academy's entrance.

You can go to M4-78 wherever you want. You can even do Korriban first then do M4-78 as your last planet. It's never stated who the real colonists are, and I never gave an answer either. It's just a lot of hints in the game which you can't piece together without some EU knowledge. Hint 1) is that the colony is 68-ish years old, and if you use HK-47 for the droid quest, one of the units refer to you as HK-01. Both are references to something called Great Droid Revolution. Original idea was that planet's origin were linked to that conflict, but I believe we scrapped that. Colony was still founded around the same time. Hint 2) is from the side quest SH mentioned, which is pretty easy to miss and I know most people never finished it. You learn that colonists were sending regular transmission to M4-78 for a while... and then it stopped. You can help the droid locate the source of those transmissions: a space sector, called Quelli. That's where Praven Prime is located - you may recall the planet from one of HK-47's stories. That's where the mistranslation led to a brutal war. IIRC they stopped sending transmissions around the time that war started. That's what I recall anyway, it's been years since I talked about M4-78's background to anyone. There's no indication of how the colony came to be in TSL's files, so the whole backstory was up to us. I decided it's best to leave it vague.

Good stuff! And probably the first time in star wars history when a special edition is superior to the regular one and imagine all their best stuff is in Episode 3! Those kids are LOUD at 17:40.

Most of them have been MP3s since I discovered that's what caused the steam issue. Ones that aren't were an oversight on my part HH posted a change log in another thread and it would obviously be provided to all potential testers along with new EXE file.