Blog #94 - The Problem with Master Vash

Sith Holocron

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A formerly unreleased remnant of the unfinished chapter of the M4-78 Documentary


M4-78: The Problem with Master Vash


One thing that I don’t think I’ve previously discussed is the problem of voice overs of the character Master Vash – the Jedi we’re seeking in the M4-78 materials. Did you know that there are two voice actresses for the lines that appear in the game?


When we first see and hear Master Vash, it’s an old video that T3-M4 plays of your Exile’s trial on Coruscant.  The voice actress for Vash in this scene is Vanessa Marshall.  


Vanessa Marshall has played a number of parts over the years, including a few characters in the Extended Universe including: Master Bela Kiwiiks (from SWTOR), Hera Syndulla (from Star Wars: Rebels and Forces of Destiny) and assorted characters in KotOR2. [ed: insert pictures of the various characters]   I’ll put an IMDB link to her CV in the video description below. 


Here’s where things take a turn. Vanessa Marshall isn’t who we hear on the planet of M4-78 though.  That completely different voice actress is Kath Soucie.  In the Star Wars EU alone, she’s played the female Smuggler and minor characters in SWTOR, Mira Bridger and Minister Maketh Tua in Star Wars: Rebels, Mon Mothma from the Star Wars: The Clone Wars cartoon, the Nightsister in Star Wars Empire at War: Forces of Corruption, Mara Jade in Star Wars: Empire at War, and the list goes on and on with other non-Star Wars roles. [ed: insert pictures of the various characters]  I’ll put an IMDB link to Kath Soucie’s CV in the video description below.


There are two people doing the work of one character.  Most folks don’t even notice the actress change up as each section has few lines and they are separated by a decent amount of both in-game and real-world time.  Let’s be honest - most people aren’t making off like a shot from T3’s Trial video to go straight to Korriban so they can meet Vash right away.


Why bring this up though?


One of the limitations of any of the versions of M4-78 mods is severe limitation of lines that can be used for what Vash can say in the mod.  There’s not a lot.  Since they are two different voice actresses, you can’t grab sample from one Vash iteration and hand it off to the other.  It won’t sound right as they aren’t trying to actively mimic each other.  An enterprising modder could technically grab lines from other games to try to extend Kath Soucie’s lines from one of the games listed below.  However that modder would have to limit themselves to lines where Soucie’s lines sounded like her Vash impression that were left on the KotOR2 disc. Then they would run into the same issue of limitations of what the actress can say based on those lines.


The answer to this would seem to be to recast the part of Master Vash entirely.  Whenever this has been brought up, there’s been pushback.  The most common reasons is a connection to the few lines that appear in the Coruscant files that appear in both modded and unmodded versions of the Coruscant trial scene – which as pointed out earlier – isn’t even the same actress as the one on Korriban.  
 

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I had no idea that her voice actress changed, nor the history of SW involvement both voice actresses had. Neat to know. 

I've never liked how TSL and mods treated Master Kash with her either dead or very limited by dialogue. With the single exception of a modded video, on your channel I believe, that had Master Kash fight Sion to allow the PC to escape, which seemed a little more befitting for a more likable and noble Jedi and accommodated the limitations quite nicely. I could get behind recasting or just giving alien VOs to her to integrate her back into the story/Dantooine scene. 

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Thanks for the comment!

5 minutes ago, jc2 said:

With the single exception of a modded video, on your channel I believe, that had Master Vash fight Sion to allow the PC to escape, which seemed a little more befitting for a more likable and noble Jedi and accommodated the limitations quite nicely. 

I believe is this one you might be referring to.

(It's actually where I got the screen cap for the Blog Title because I got lazy!)  

Pssst: Why the dark side points?

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An enterprising modder could technically grab lines from other games to try to extend Kath Soucie’s lines from one of the games listed below.

Wow, that sounds extra but pretty much get the picture here. Are there an example of mods/projects that practically done the aforementioned method?

Anyway, as a friendly reminder; perhaps you could swap the word 'below' to 'above' to perfectly match the context.

Many thanks for considering the latter! :cheers:

Edited by ebmar
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Very interesting, Sith Holocron!

I agree with @jc2 with regards to Vash being treated very unfairly in the game and recasting may be needed to give her more to do.

However, if she had a more active role in the story, what would be her fate?

If she survives and makes it to Dantooine, will she pull a Zez and Kavar and start blaming the Exile for everything?   

It would be a shame for the only actual nice Jedi to cave like that and then get struck down by Kreia like the others.

What do you think?

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14 hours ago, narshaddaarocks said:

I agree with @jc2 with regards to Vash being treated very unfairly in the game and recasting may be needed to give her more to do.

However, if she had a more active role in the story, what would be her fate?

If she survives and makes it to Dantooine, will she pull a Zez and Kavar and start blaming the Exile for everything?   

It would be a shame for the only actual nice Jedi to cave like that and then get struck down by Kreia like the others.

It really depends on what modders want to do with the character as they are only limited by their ability and their imagination.  If Vash was recast, who's to say that she'd even want to go Dantooine?  It might even be a modder's favor for her not to want to go to Dantooine as the other Jedi Masters do not acknowledge her being there at any point in the Rebuilt Jedi Academy discussion.  Let's look at few things that could be done - and folks could add items below as they occur to them.

  • Continue the discussion on Force Bonds that currently exists in the game disc files?  Would knowing more about the Force Bonds be of interest to a player?
  • Have lengthier discussions with Vash on the nature of their player's current alignment?
  • Perhaps Vash might offer an apology (on her own behalf that is, not the Council's) for throwing the Exile out of the Order?
  • Expanded training montage?
  • Could Vash have additional feedback on the Masters that the Exile has encountered already?  Additional comments branching off of whether your Exile spared them or attacked them?
  • How about some more information on what she did on the planet?  She has to have more information on the nature of planet of M4-78.  Assuming we're talking about a version of a mod that includes Kaah, then she was standing right next to her hacker padawan having things explained to her.  Her (relatively) calm outlook compared to Kaah's might offer different outlooks on M4-78 as a whole.
  • And perhaps the player could suggest to Vash what she could do next?  Maybe tie Vash into other mods that aren't connected to M4-78 right now (i.e. Korriban Expansion, Vash being a resource to consult about those pesky missing Jedi Holocrons, having her pick up and train Kaevee, etc.)?

And that's just off the top of my head.

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@Sith Holocron

I like those ideas!

Here's one I would add:

*Vash is most appreciative of your actions on M4-78, but she will not join the rest of the council on Dantooine because she has more work to do and she knows the council will never have the strength and courage to do what is right.

 This way she gets to live without selling out like Zez and Kavar!

 

 

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