Sith Assassins in K1

[Spectrometer 16]

Hello. Today I was thinking about the differences between K1 and TSL, not only narrative, but also artistic/Aesthetic ones. And it occurred to me, why not change the groups of 3 Dark Jedi trying to kill the player in every planet (either the one leading the group or the 2 flanking him) for ported Sith Assassins?

I think it would be a nice little addition to continuity, as it is established that this branch of Sith existed before the Triumvirate took over between K1 and TSL.

[eNoodles 31]

I think the game spawns in default dark jedi for those encounters, so if you replaced their model/texture you'd be replacing every single regular dark jedi in the game (unless they have different faces or something like that for genders, but even then you'd be replacing a large portion of them). The only way to do specifically what you want is to edit the script that spawns them in/add them into the modules where you get attacked by the dark jedi.

 

Do you recall where exactly they spawn? Like what the names of the modules are?

Edited July 19, 2018 by eNoodles

[Spectrometer 16]

I installed the NPC Overhaul Mod and it replaces only the leading Dark Jeid in every planet with the Sith Master model, so I think it´s possible, probably with the method you describe.

As for the modules, sorry, but I don't know their exact name (I'm no modder actually lol) and I cannot open them with any program to know them.

If it helps, the one in Tatooine is the module of Anchorhead, the one in Krashyyyk is the Great Walkway's one and in Manaan... IDK, I always do it as the third planet so I always encounter Bandon in the Hrakert Station module.

[eNoodles 31]

That would actually be pretty easy to do, but it wouldn't be compatible with the aforementioned NPC Overhaul mod. You sure you'd still want that over the NPC overhaul?

Edit: Actually, nevermind, it would be compatible. I'll get back to you in a bit.

Edited July 20, 2018 by eNoodles

[A Future Pilot 161]

You should be able to just edit the .utcs of each one and replace their appearance with the Sith Assassins (you'd have to add a line for the Sith Assassins to appearance.2da). Depending on the naming convention of the utc files, you may need to add them to their respective module files instead of straight into the Override.

[eNoodles 31]

Ookay, I don't know how to port models properly from KotOR 2 to 1 without crashing the game. I could retexture an existing model to look like a sith assassin, but that'll take a bit of time.

[A Future Pilot 161]

2 minutes ago, eNoodles said:

Ookay, I don't know how to port models properly from KotOR 2 to 1 without crashing the game. I could retexture an existing model to look like a sith assassin, but that'll take a bit of time.

Before you go through all that trouble, I can try my hand at it

[eNoodles 31]

3 minutes ago, A Future Pilot said:

You should be able to just edit the .utcs of each one and replace their appearance with the Sith Assassins (you'd have to add a line for the Sith Assassins to appearance.2da). Depending on the naming convention of the utc files, you may need to add them to their respective module files instead of straight into the Override.

Yep, that's what I did. I just thought they would be using some kind of default dark jedi utcs but so far it seems like it's unique to those two encounters (tat17_darkjedi01 is in anchorhead and the great walkway). 

[eNoodles 31]

Well, I was able to port the model of the sith assassin's body over, but for some reason doing the same steps for the head does not work (although it doesn't crash, it's just invisible). There are also "problems" with the animations of the legs and left arm, and by problems I mean lack thereof (probably because the anims are labeled differently in TSL or there's simply more of them). I don't have any experience with modeling and animations so I'm kind of stumped.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17_pB4PhKlujmXWUFKypD9ELwaBPeA0NI/view?usp=sharing 

[JCarter426 1,215]

First, put some clothes on. Trask can tell you how.

Second, in order to compile a body model, you need to have the supermodel in the same folder for MDLEdit or MDLOps to read and get the proper animation data. For that model, the supermodel should be S_Female02.mdl/mdx. Just extract it and put it in the same location as the other model. Although, you may have problems depending on which game's supermodel you use, due to differences in the models. You might have to try both.

I'm not sure what the issue with the head is, as there are no secret modeling rituals here. Most likely you've set something in the 2DAs incorrectly.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

If it is being used to replace the Dark Jedi, that's a full body model, so doesn't use a head. The appearance.2da line would need to be amended.

[eNoodles 31]

On 7/21/2018 at 1:13 PM, DarthParametric said:

If it is being used to replace the Dark Jedi, that's a full body model, so doesn't use a head. The appearance.2da line would need to be amended.

I know, I have. I added a new row with it's own head label and everything. And I added the head into heads.2da

 

On 7/21/2018 at 1:09 PM, JCarter426 said:

First, put some clothes on. Trask can tell you how.

Second, in order to compile a body model, you need to have the supermodel in the same folder for MDLEdit or MDLOps to read and get the proper animation data. For that model, the supermodel should be S_Female02.mdl/mdx. Just extract it and put it in the same location as the other model. Although, you may have problems depending on which game's supermodel you use, due to differences in the models. You might have to try both.

I'm not sure what the issue with the head is, as there are no secret modeling rituals here. Most likely you've set something in the 2DAs incorrectly.

Wait, so if the supermodel is the mdl/mdx, then what is the actual model? I'm a bit confused. I have the converted mdl and mdx in my override, as well as the texture ofc.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

And what is the value of the modeltype column?

 

The supermodel is  S_Female02. You need a copy of the binary supermodel in the same folder as the ASCII model to compile against. You should get a warning if you don't. What are you using? MDLEdit or MDLOps?

[eNoodles 31]

Just now, DarthParametric said:

And what is the value of the modeltype column?

B. I dont know what that does, so I decided to leave it be.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

B is what it should be, body-only. F is full body (i.e. integrated head).

[eNoodles 31]

On 7/21/2018 at 2:10 PM, DarthParametric said:

B is what it should be, body-only. F is full body (i.e. integrated head).

Ok, thanks for the explanation, but that leaves the head issue unsolved.

 

On 7/21/2018 at 2:07 PM, DarthParametric said:

The supermodel is  S_Female02. You need a copy of the binary supermodel in the same folder as the ASCII model to compile against. You should get a warning if you don't. What are you using? MDLEdit or MDLOps?

MDLOps. I did have the binary and ascii models in the same folder, and I didn't get any warnings. Everything went smooth.

[JCarter426 1,215]

You might have to try using the other game's supermodel as the source then. It's tricky to navigate because different things will break depending on which you use, but there is a process that works for everything.

[eNoodles 31]

1 hour ago, JCarter426 said:

You might have to try using the other game's supermodel as the source then. It's tricky to navigate because different things will break depending on which you use, but there is a process that works for everything.

Assuming I understood everything you just said, I'm pretty sure that's how I did it. What exactly are you talking about when you say "source"? As in for the conversion in MDLOps?

[Kexikus 995]

There might be some confusion here:
You need the binary supermodel (S_Female02.mdl and .mdx) as well as your ASCII model (whatever that's called) in the same folder. And you'll have to try S_Female02 from both K1 and TSL as only one of them might work.

Maybe you already did that, in that case, ignore my post.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

You only want to be using the supermodel for the game you are compiling for. If you are compiling for K1, use K1's supermodel. It should also go without saying that the model must share the same rig as the supermodel. You can't use TSL robes with K1's supermodel, as they have different rigs (all the extra bones Obsidian added for the flappy bits).

[JCarter426 1,215]

17 minutes ago, eNoodles said:

Assuming I understood everything you just said, I'm pretty sure that's how I did it. What exactly are you talking about when you say "source"? As in for the conversion in MDLOps?

10 minutes ago, Kexikus said:

And you'll have to try S_Female02 from both K1 and TSL as only one of them might work.

That is what I'm talking about.

5 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

You only want to be using the supermodel for the game you are compiling for. If you are compiling for K1, use K1's supermodel. It should also go without saying that the model must share the same rig as the supermodel. You can't use TSL robes with K1's supermodel, as they have different rigs (all the extra bones Obsidian added for the flappy bits).

That's not always true. I'm not exactly sure what causes it in every case, but I've experienced problems with compiling a model with the supermodel for the game it's being put into rather than the game it came from. For K2 body models ported to K1, this often results in the animations on the left arm breaking. Some things do, however, have to be compiled with the source matching the game it's compiled for - face bones won't animate if they're compiled with the wrong one, for example. In the case of the robe bones, a K1 supermodel can't be used as the source because it lacks those bones and therefore it'll never compile properly for them. I had to jump through some hoops to get the bones to animate on a K1-compatible rig. But despite all these complications, for every model I've ported so far, something has worked. Just a matter of figuring out the right combination of things.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

I can take a sledgehammer and smash two metal objects together until they sort of fit. That doesn't mean I'd be advising other people to do the same. New users should be taught how to do things properly. One reason why that wiki sure would be handy....

[JCarter426 1,215]

But do you want to do it properly or do you want to do it for KOTOR?

[eNoodles 31]

Got the head working- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r-Th9HOmeez_fGZyQl9jB6c04KfANbBB/view?usp=sharing

Except the animations are even more messed up with it. I didn't really understand everything you guys said here. What exactly is a supermodel as opposed to just a model? Am I supposed to have the ascii model in override as well? Why would that be necessary? 

1 hour ago, Kexikus said:

And you'll have to try S_Female02 from both K1 and TSL as only one of them might work.

Just using the mdl/mdx files from TSL and placing them into K1's override crashes the game when they get loaded. Is that what you meant or am I misunderstanding?

[JCarter426 1,215]

35 minutes ago, eNoodles said:

I didn't really understand everything you guys said here. What exactly is a supermodel as opposed to just a model? Am I supposed to have the ascii model in override as well? Why would that be necessary?

A supermodel is a model with animations on it. The model (in this case Sith assassin) is parented to a supermodel (in this case S_Female02) and gets all its animations from that. Most models don't have animations on them and instead get them from the stock set of 5 supermodels so they all have all the animations available on those models. Because efficiency and such.

35 minutes ago, eNoodles said:

Just using the mdl/mdx files from TSL and placing them into K1's override crashes the game when they get loaded. Is that what you meant or am I misunderstanding?

Misunderstanding. You don't need to put the supermodels in Override as they're already in the game. And copying binary models from one game to another is bad, as you've experienced. However, MDLOps needs a binary MDL/MDX supermodel in order to properly compile any body model. So when you compile, you need to have:

a) The ASCII model file you're compiling

b) The binary MDL file for the supermodel your model uses

c) The corresponding MDX file for the supermodel source

- all in the same location. MDLOps will then generate the new MDL and MDX model files for your model that you want to put in Override.

The issue here, though, is that you get different results depending on what you decide to use as your supermodel. This is where the approach turns into a sledgehammer, but what I would suggest in this case is extracting S_Female02.mdl/mdx from both games and try compiling the assassin models twice, using each one as your source supermodel.