[SPOILER] Who were the Sith in M4-78EP?

[N-DReW25 1,336]

This may be a rather confusing question but who were the Sith who inhabited M4-78?

The Sith on Dxun and Onderon where quite evidently apart of Nihilus' branch of Sith. Nihilus wanted to use Vaklu to overthrow the queen to leave the Republic so he may use Onderon as a Sith staging base. Using the power of the Dxun Tomb, via the ritual, the Sith could control the Onderonian beasts to their will (Of course until they stop the ritual). Nihilus intended to feed on the power of the tomb after the fall of Onderon which obviously never came to be.
 
The Sith Triumvirate on Malachor seemingly where the last of Darth Revan's empire. Obviously from the cut content all I know about these Sith is that they had an Academy on Malachor, whether or not they had a fleet like Nilihus did is unknown or whether or not the Sith on Malachor and Nihilus' sith where the same group I also am not completely sure however judging from the fact in cut content Nihilus and Sion fought I'm willing to bet the two groups are rivals with the same belief.

So I'd like to ask "Who are the Sith on M4-78" and "Which faction of Sith would gain from having control of M4-78?"  (Let's not forget M4-78 is an industrial planet that creates war droids and presumably other weapons and ships for the Sith so having M4-78 in the post-war would definitely provide a major edge to whatever faction has it)

[Spectrometer 16]

I always thought that, if they weren't some kind of "Lost Tribe-esque" Revan/Malak branch, they were probably a part of Nihilus faction. Sion never cared for building a military army (his forces on Peragus, Korriban and Malachor are nearly all assassins or lesser Sith students), while Nihilus is known for having a massive fleet and an army capable of planetary scale invasion, so most probably some Lord under Nihilus command wanted to investigate a planet as resourceful in fuel and minerals as M4-78. I know this is added by the modders, but the dead Sith Lord near the entrance of the Environmental Zone supports this, as he is wearing the robes of Nihilus' Sith.

 

BTW, they are all remains of Revan/Malak Empire, at first they were all a united remnant under Traya's leadership, with its hideout in Malachor, but when Sion and Nihilus betrayed Traya, the Triumvirate splitted, and it seems Nihilus took the larger part of the army while Sion kept Malachor.

[djnugent 34]

You know...that's actually a really good question... because NOW we could almost say that they were part of the Sith Empire from Dromund Kaas and that M4-78 was right on the edges of the border between the Republic and what is now known to be the Sith Empire. I don't think that would be too much of a stretch.

 

This could also open the door to introduce a Sith (species) mod that can actually be incorporated without impacting the rest of the game. Say, looking up records of the previous Sith inhabitants and there's an image of them being led by a Super Evil Red Tentacle-faced Sith Guy. Wouldn't even have to make him an interactive character and it would not only expand the story, it would be a nice way to give a nod to The Old Republic game stories. Like a foreshadowing of things to come "in the future"... 

(insert dramatic music here)

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Not every corpse on a battlefield in a war movie deserves a back story.  The same applies here.

[djnugent 34]

WARNING! WARNING! THIS POSTER PROCLAIMS TO BE OPINIONATING... you've been warned 

 

 

Not every corpse on a battlefield in a war movie deserves a back story.  The same applies here.

 

I agree with the concept and can respect where you're coming from with that opinion...because you're right - who cares?

However, in this context, I disagree. While I don't need to know who that random Sith was that was dead, it was a compelling and interesting question if you expand it outside the context of that one corpse - who were the Sith that came to M4-78 and/or where did they come from if not from the Sith characters already present in game?

 

The thing that made M4-78 EP so impressive (to me) was that you guys were able to take bits and pieces of some models and only hints of lost/hidden storyboard and turn it into something that felt like being immersed into a real Star Wars story. So while I agree that the "The Life and Times of Darth Shmuckatelli -- That one random Sithy dead guy you saw that one time" isn't necessary, any addition that could further enhance the overall Star Wars continuity picture would do nothing less than enhance the experience of being even further immersed into the connected Star Wars universe. And for me, that's the whole point of doing this in the first place.

 

Of course, it should be noted that I don't know exactly (or even vaguely   ) what changes were made in 1.3 ... nor am I a modder... in that I haven't modded anything ever other than some random retexturing done for personal use. I just enjoyed the hell out of these mods and I always love good conversation.

 

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

On 3/23/2018 at 3:45 PM, djnugent said:

I agree with the concept and can respect where you're coming from with that opinion...because you're right - who cares?

However, in this context, I disagree. While I don't need to know who that random Sith was that was dead, it was a compelling and interesting question if you expand it outside the context of that one corpse - who were the Sith that came to M4-78 and/or where did they come from if not from the Sith characters already present in game?

 

The thing that made M4-78 EP so impressive (to me) was that you guys were able to take bits and pieces of some models and only hints of lost/hidden storyboard and turn it into something that felt like being immersed into a real Star Wars story. So while I agree that the "The Life and Times of Darth Shmuckatelli -- That one random Sithy dead guy you saw that one time" isn't necessary, any addition that could further enhance the overall Star Wars continuity picture would do nothing less than enhance the experience of being even further immersed into the connected Star Wars universe. And for me, that's the whole point of doing this in the first place.

 

Once version 1.5 finally comes out, someone could in theory make a mod to add a subplot about the doomed Sith into the game.  However, I don't see a big market for it frankly.

 

On 3/23/2018 at 3:45 PM, djnugent said:

Of course, it should be noted that I don't know exactly (or even vaguely   ) what changes were made in 1.3 ... nor am I a modder... in that I haven't modded anything ever other than some random retexturing done for personal use. I just enjoyed the hell out of these mods and I always love good conversation.

To me, the more interesting story is if the Sith didn't inititally establish the colony, who did? Have you found the answer to that, yet?

[jc2 581]

Something that has always bugged me within TSL, is that Visas repeatedly stress that there are "many factions within the Sith" yet we only see Sion and Nihilus...

 

Were there other Sith Lords who held shattered remains of Revan's Empire?

 

Could it be another "faction" altogether....

 

Honestly, the colonists always bored me... the droids never shut up about "the colonists" and it left me disliking even the mystery of who they were... 

[N-DReW25 1,336]

Not every corpse on a battlefield in a war movie deserves a back story.  The same applies here.

True, but all of the corpses on M4-78 are Sith Soldiers except for this one corpse that is obviously a Sith Lord. You are correct, this Sith Lord doesn't need a backstory as he's only really there to give the player a new Lightsaber or a piece.

[djnugent 34]

 

To me, the more interesting story is if the Sith didn't inititally establish the colony, who did? Have you found the answer to that, yet?

 

Hmm...only thing's I could find were this:

 

The only droid that told you anything substantial was that the original colonists were from the Quelii Sector. The only significance there is that this is the same sector containing Corstris, Pil Diller, Varn, Vinsoth, Amorris, Dathomir, Axxila, and Selaggis VI, and the only significance there is Vinsoth as the home of the Chev and the Chevin, and Dathomir...and we know all about what Dathomir is. The other planets were just briefly mentioned in a story somewhere.

 

The only other thing I could find was a brief reference in Medstar:Intermezzo.... which was literally....nothing...

 

So...small possibility that Dathomir is involved...but only because there does not seem to be any origin or old enough stories of Axxila, which is compared as "Coruscant if it was inside out". And briefly appeared in a comic book...apparently...

 

 

So SH: The answer is...probably not...? 

[N-DReW25 1,336]

Hmm...only thing's I could find were this:

 

The only droid that told you anything substantial was that the original colonists were from the Quelii Sector. The only significance there is that this is the same sector containing Corstris, Pil Diller, Varn, Vinsoth, Amorris, Dathomir, Axxila, and Selaggis VI, and the only significance there is Vinsoth as the home of the Chev and the Chevin, and Dathomir...and we know all about what Dathomir is. The other planets were just briefly mentioned in a story somewhere.

 

The only other thing I could find was a brief reference in Medstar:Intermezzo.... which was literally....nothing...

 

So...small possibility that Dathomir is involved...but only because there does not seem to be any origin or old enough stories of Axxila, which is compared as "Coruscant if it was inside out". And briefly appeared in a comic book...apparently...

 

 

So SH: The answer is...probably not...? 

Also, the droids were dispatched to M4-78 around the time of the Exar Kun wars so that may have something to do with it.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

Hmm...only thing's I could find were this:

 

The only droid that told you anything substantial was that the original colonists were from the Quelii Sector. The only significance there is that this is the same sector containing Corstris, Pil Diller, Varn, Vinsoth, Amorris, Dathomir, Axxila, and Selaggis VI, and the only significance there is Vinsoth as the home of the Chev and the Chevin, and Dathomir...and we know all about what Dathomir is. The other planets were just briefly mentioned in a story somewhere.

 

So...small possibility that Dathomir is involved...but only because there does not seem to be any origin or old enough stories of Axxila, which is compared as "Coruscant if it was inside out". And briefly appeared in a comic book...apparently...

Also, the droids were dispatched to M4-78 around the time of the Exar Kun wars so that may have something to do with it.

[JCarter426 1,214]

There's no indication of who those Sith were meant to be in the game files, and I don't believe the final mod is meant to give any indication either. There were ideas discussed during development concerning the Sith, but ultimately none of them made it into the mod. So they could be anybody. Revan's empire controlled half the galaxy, and many factions of Sith remain.

 

and Dathomir...and we know all about what Dathomir is

Dathomir wouldn't be populated by the Nightsisters until a couple thousand years later. Though it's conceivable that there was some other Dark Jedi-related group there before them, there's nothing in any expanded universe canon to suggest that.

 

In any case, the Sith were not the colonists, so there needn't be any connection like that.

 

As far as I recall, the Quelli reference didn't have any significance. It's just a place with preexisting KOTOR connections, being the location of Praven Prime and Malak's homeworld.

 

Also, the droids were dispatched to M4-78 around the time of the Exar Kun wars so that may have something to do with it.

It was before that. And again, Sith != colonists. They were lying.

 

There are actually three different questions here - who the Sith were, who the real colonists were, and where the droids came from.

[N-DReW25 1,336]

 

 

The M4-78 droid who recognises HK-47 refers to him as "HK-01" and another M4-78 droid corrects him by saying "I do not think that is HK-01".

 

Multiple droids including M4-78 himself state the colonist dispatched the droids about 60 years ago, so unless the war was started before then the Gu-Vandi or the L'Xing wouldn't have sent droids to colonise M4-78 due to the Civil War.

 

If the Gu-Vandi and/or L'Xing where apart of the Republic and/or where a large government that could explain why the Selkath sent Kolto to M4-78 as clearly they where a faction who needed and could afford the large credit cost for the Kolto required for a whole planet-sized colony.

 

M4-78 said that the colonist stopped sending him messages 7 years before the events of Kotor 2. Kotor 2 is set in 3951 BBY which would mean they stopped sending messages in 3958 BBY... the same year Telos VI was bombed.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

The M4-78 droid who recognises HK-47 refers to him as "HK-01" and another M4-78 droid corrects him by saying "I do not think that is HK-01".

 

Multiple droids including M4-78 himself state the colonist dispatched the droids about 60 years ago, so unless the war was started before then the Gu-Vandi or the L'Xing wouldn't have sent droids to colonise M4-78 due to the Civil War.

 

If the Gu-Vandi and/or L'Xing where apart of the Republic and/or where a large government that could explain why the Selkath sent Kolto to M4-78 as clearly they where a faction who needed and could afford the large credit cost for the Kolto required for a whole planet-sized colony.

 

M4-78 said that the colonist stopped sending him messages 7 years before the events of Kotor 2. Kotor 2 is set in 3951 BBY which would mean they stopped sending messages in 3958 BBY... the same year Telos VI was bombed.

Except I'm the reason the Quellii reference was put in. I wrote that backstory because there was nothing in there before.  (That's the reason I wanted a decent voice actor for the Inquisitive Droid that can hack his own commands.)

[JCarter426 1,214]

Multiple droids including M4-78 himself state the colonist dispatched the droids about 60 years ago, so unless the war was started before then the Gu-Vandi or the L'Xing wouldn't have sent droids to colonise M4-78 due to the Civil War.

They very well could've planned a colony for the sake of planning a colony and not because of the civil war. However, by the time of the game, they are in no condition to start a colony due to the civil war. The planet was abandoned, so apart from that being a reference to other events mentioned in the game, it doesn't really have a connection to where the droids or Sith came from.

[HK-47 84]

I was under the impression that the original colonists came from somewhere unknown to terraform the planet, but something happened to them before they could arrive. Then the Sith, presumably under Revan, found the planet, and established themselves as the original colonists. I'm pretty sure this was what was established by the first M4-78 iterations. Whether that was game story, or made up, I don't know.

[Malkior 476]

version 1.4 finally comes out, someone could in theory make a mod to add a subplot about the doomed Sith into the game. However, I don't see a big market for it frankly.

 

 

 

 

To me, the more interesting story is if the Sith didn't inititally establish the colony, who did? Have you found the answer to that, yet?

 

..I'd be part of that market, then. The one thing that bugged me the most after playing M4-78EP was how the question of who the original Colonists were and whether the Sith were actually with Revan or part of the "True" Sith Kreia kept alluding to.

 

For a time, I even theorized they could have been connected to the Star Forge and how it too was capable of creating armies from nothing

And arguably may or may not have been sentient itself

 

[zbyl2 811]

I never wanted to give a definite answer as to who the "real colonists" were, but there are hints that they came from that sector HK-47 talks about. It was Sith Holocron's idea and I liked it.

 

The 60 years (or whatever number I gave in a mod) is a reference to a time of a "Great Droid Revolution", that took place around the time M4-78 was first colonized. That's also where HK-01 references come from, because that's the HK unit droids from the time of a Droid Revolution would know.

 

Back on topic, interesting question about who the Sith were. As CS-36 puts it, "they're one of many Sith factions spread across the galaxy..."

 

Vash found information about M4-78 in Korriban's terminal, so they're likely linked to Sion in some way. Then again they all work together "in some way".

 

Truth is, I never really thought it trough, and I've no idea if someone at Obsidian did

 

 

 

. Then the Sith, presumably under Revan, found the planet, and established themselves as the original colonists. I'm pretty sure this was what was established by the first M4-78 iterations.

It was made up and we wanted to remove Revan references for EP version.

 

 

If the Gu-Vandi and/or L'Xing where apart of the Republic and/or where a large government that could explain why the Selkath sent Kolto to M4-78 as clearly they where a faction who needed and could afford the large credit cost for the Kolto required for a whole planet-sized colony.

 

M4-78 said that the colonist stopped sending him messages 7 years before the events of Kotor 2. Kotor 2 is set in 3951 BBY which would mean they stopped sending messages in 3958 BBY... the same year Telos VI was bombed.

 

Well Selkath only started sending Kolto after the Sith arrived on the planet. I don't think anyone on Manaan knew what M4-78 was.

 

"7 years ago" I THINK is a time when the L'Xing/whatever war started, as per the HK-47's story, and M4-78 was abandoned. It's been a while though so I may be mis-remembering that.

[JCarter426 1,214]

I don't believe there's an established date for it, but I believe you're right regarding the reason for that date being mentioned in the mod. It would fit with the timeline if we assume the L'Xing/Gu-vandi incident was incited by Revan via an HK unit.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I never wanted to give a definite answer as to who the "real colonists" were, but there are hints that they came from that sector HK-47 talks about. It was Sith Holocron's idea and I liked it.

Was it mine or was it Sharen Thrawn's? I honestly can't recall anymore but I think it may have been his idea. I certainly pushed it though.

 

The 60 years (or whatever number I gave in a mod) is a reference to a time of a "Great Droid Revolution", that took place around the time M4-78 was first colonized. That's also where HK-01 references come from, because that's the HK unit droids from the time of a Droid Revolution would know.

Would you rather M4-78 tell you about it? (I mean you could read it either on Wookiepedia or when you recover one of the Alderaan datacrons in SWTOR but this seems more fun.)

 

[zbyl2 811]

Was it mine or was it Sharen Thrawn's? I honestly can't recall anymore but I think it may have been his idea. I certainly pushed it though.

 

 

Oh, I thought it was yours. I guess it might have been his.

 

I think Great Droid Revolution angle was his idea, and the L'xing/something war came later.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

I haven't done research on EP yet but yeah . . . pretty sure it's his.

[Guest]

Stuff like this makes me really surprised that someone from the TSLRCM Team hasn't done an interview with Chris Avellone and asked questions along these lines.

[zbyl2 811]

I thought about it and then I was like "man it's been 10 years he probably doesn't even remember all the stuff we'd actually want to ask".0

 

I might do it next year for TSLRCM's 10th anniversary lol.

[N-DReW25 1,336]

I thought about it and then I was like "man it's been 10 years he probably doesn't even remember all the stuff we'd actually want to ask".0

 

I might do it next year for TSLRCM's 10th anniversary lol.

If you are going to do that, which I really hope you do, perhaps you could do something like what Sith Holocron does and ask the Deadlystream community what questions they have for him and you can pick the best questions to ask (Though that may not be a good idea as I bet you'd have to pick from hundreds of questions)

 

Make sure you ask about the GenoHaradan for me if you do