Star Wars Episode VII Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

[1Leonard 134]

Guys, come on:

This isn't 4chan, people here value being polite.

Right after Doctor Evil is called:

So far the only SW-fan I find obnoxious is you.

 

Let's not call each other names please. 

 

Let's be excellent to each other. 

 

We all have opinions and that's okay, don't let it get too heated.

[Malkior 472]

It's cool guys. Honestly I will reserve judgement for when I actually see this "sequel" (I know, a bit shocking to be on a spoiler thread..) I hear great things from some people about the quality, and if the movie can stand on its own, then I applaud that.

 

However, I am going to be honest with you guys, at this point prior to watching this, as a direct sequel, I think this movie honestly shouldn't exist in my opinion.

 

If it reuses the plot of the first breakout Star Wars film but has to hold onto what made the films so popular, (lightsabers, X-Wings, certain doom by galaxy killing weapon), then all of those are to its detraction. (Lest we forget what happened to the Terminator storyline..)

 

I would much prefer a "spiritual successor" to Star Wars, where everything from the theme to the characters are drastically different, yet it takes key events from the previous films and gives them a new or fresh prespective.

 

However, my opinion is simply my expectations for my idea of an appropriate film. It would be far more reasonable, as far as I'm concerned that others don't assume just because people disagree with decisions of the movie that automatically they are blinded by nostalgia.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

And here I thought this would be a fun and engaging conversation about plot theories and where people think the rest of the trilogy is headed...

[Doctor Evil 51]

I would much prefer a "spiritual successor" to Star Wars, where everything from the theme to the characters are drastically different, yet it takes key events from the previous films and gives them a new or fresh prespective.

 

And that's what I thought this movie was and did, and it's why I liked it. I think a lot of people had some lofty expectations of what this movie was and should be, I didn't I came in blank, expecting to be entertained, have a good time and watch a good movie and I did. I wasn't negative or positive when I came in. People watch this movie I feel, and some just expect it to be something it's not, and when it's not what they expect it to be exactly then it's automatically bad. Not true of most, but there are people who are like that.

 

And here I thought this would be a fun and engaging conversation about plot theories and where people think the rest of the trilogy is headed...

 

My thoughts exactly, I didn't want to spend my time trying to defend this movie, rather I wanted to actually talk about where it's headed, but considering how much vitrol has been going on I felt oblidged. (Isn't there a thread for the opinions on it?)

 

ALL HAIL DARTH PLAGUEIS

[1Leonard 134]

It's cool guys. Honestly I will reserve judgement for when I actually see this "sequel" (I know, a bit shocking to be on a spoiler thread..) I hear great things from some people about the quality, and if the movie can stand on its own, then I applaud that.

 

However, I am going to be honest with you guys, at this point prior to watching this, as a direct sequel, I think this movie honestly shouldn't exist in my opinion.

 

If it reuses the plot of the first breakout Star Wars film but has to hold onto what made the films so popular, (lightsabers, X-Wings, certain doom by galaxy killing weapon), then all of those are to its detraction. (Lest we forget what happened to the Terminator storyline..)

 

I would much prefer a "spiritual successor" to Star Wars, where everything from the theme to the characters are drastically different, yet it takes key events from the previous films and gives them a new or fresh prespective.

 

However, my opinion is simply my expectations for my idea of an appropriate film. It would be far more reasonable, as far as I'm concerned that others don't assume just because people disagree with decisions of the movie that automatically they are blinded by nostalgia.

Honestly, I think this movie could stand on it's own.

 

There are a couple of throwbacks for nostalgia's sake, but the characters are new and very interesting, I think.

 

I don't really see how including a lightsaber in Star Wars (Who'd have thunk it) would be to its detraction?

 

 

And here I thought this would be a fun and engaging conversation about plot theories and where people think the rest of the trilogy is headed...

We're all Star Wars fans, it's why we can't have nice things

[Hassat Hunter 571]

And here I thought this would be a fun and engaging conversation about plot theories and where people think the rest of the trilogy is headed...

 

Oh, young Padawan. Much of the Force you have to learn still, yes...

 

And I'm pretty sure I've given plenty of accounts why the superweapon didn't work and what IMO would work much better instead, only to get a "You SW-fans are a disgrace. If you don't like this movie I hate you!" back. What is this? Episode III?

[Doctor Evil 51]

And I'm pretty sure I've given plenty of accounts why the superweapon didn't work and what IMO would work much better instead, only to get a "You SW-fans are a disgrace. If you don't like this movie I hate you!" back. What is this? Episode III?

 

You completely misread what I said, that's not what I said at all... RIP reading what other people say. I said CERTAIN SW fans, and I had specific points as to why I liked the movie in previous posts and why the plot works. You just kept saying over and over how it's because it was in Episode 4 and supposedly it "doesn't fit the plot" when you don't say how it doesn't fit the plot, nor the people using it.

 

Let me know when you're willing to address each of my points and we'll talk, because for now it seems you're just making a blanket statement.

 

So I'm done with this, next.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Doctor Evil

[Mutilator57 140]

 

 

Rehash is not the same word as remake, a remake is more akin to Clone than a rehash.
Excuse me, by EU I meant everything after Return of the Jedi EU, since that's what I assumed EU generally referred to. While I said borrows heavily, I meant in terms of how it was borrowed rather than how much as borrowed, but borrows nonetheless. I'll try to be more clear next time.

 

Please don't jump to conclusions or gut-react. I didn't say ALL star wars fans.

 

Rehash: reuse (of old ideas or material) without significant change or improvement. A worthy premise of my description of CLONE! No no no, the EU does not only refer to what is after ROTJ, but everything outside the movies, tv-shows etc. If what they did was merely dispose of the EU following ROTJ then that would have been upsetting, but far more manageable than what they have perpetrated upon SW fans now. They have removed all EU! So all the great Old Republic stories too, even though they're not likely to touch that era again. All I can say is that they better make damn good movies to justify this devastation and so far, I have been disappointed. No you didn't say all SW fans, but you didn't need to because you didn't (until now) make the distinction. You implied most SW fans were like the way you described all the way until now.

 

 

Luke skywalker had practically become a legend amongst most people in the galaxy despite the events of 30 years ago, but remember that the Empire, being a facist regime, most likely downplayed or even outright denied the claim of the emperor's death. Given the presence of the First Order, Jedi are generally best for resolving issues, who better than get the last of the Jedi? And the Superweapon, as I said, is there because the First Order is basically a bunch of people attempting to re-create the Galactic Empire, and the Galactic Empire was all about dominance through power

 

Because if Luke has disappeared then why bother even looking for him? Why waste time searching for someone missing for ~ 30 years instead of actually fighting the Empire First Order directly? The explanation you have provided is sound, but incredibly convoluted which is what led me to my conclusion about it being weak. By all means I agree with you, in-universe the superweapon makes plenty of sense. But for the plot of a movie, which is what we're discussing, it screams weak and lazy since it has been done before in-universe an incredible amount of times!

 

 

So because the movie leaves you with questions it automatically makes it worse? It's what entices you to watch the following movies. The original movie was made standalone because there was no guarantee it was going to be a hit, and when it was they wanted to follow up on that success, that's what bred the originals as a successive arc. If anything leaving us wondering gives us something to think about, and I like to think in movies. Let's take a look at Interstellar. The backstory of the movie isn't entirely clear, but we know that the Earth is slowly becoming more toxic to humans, and that society has degraded due to a large famine, though we don't know to what point. The backstory for TFA is that the old governments are gone, what happened is becoming stories told to a new generation, and with the vacuum in power, someone is about to take over. That someone is the First Order, and I don't think the New Republic was nearly as strong as either the Empire or the Republic.

Not because it leaves me with questions, on the contrary; good movies should have cliffhangers, they're thrilling. My point is that the lack of explanation about CRUCIAL elements of the plot is the movie's downfall, they exchanged careful elaboration on the plot and state of the galaxy for a frenetic pace that leaves too many questions. It is not a good thing when we don't even know anything about the Republic, so when they're destroyed, it had the effect of a needle-prick because I was not emotionally-invested in their cause because we knew nothing about them and their struggle! You oversimplify the backstory, everything you describe is easily ascertained. I am talking about some of the deeper, but still absolutely necessary questions about the state of the galaxy.

 

 

No, what I'm saying is that because of the backlash, it caused a fear of such happening again. There's nothing stopping them from creating something new in the following movies, and this is only the start of a trilogy, so I don't get why we're automatically trashing it because it has some parts similar to what we've seen before, it's like trashing a TV show when you haven't even seen 3 episodes of it.

 

All you have done is proved my point, it was their fear and insecurity which led them to their creative choices. I completely understand that this is merely the first installment, but the parallels to the OT are so prevalent and profound that there are seldom few differences.

 

 

 

It's common principle that films and writers copy off themselves, big or small. Return of the Jedi did it with the Death Star, Phantom Menace did it with the explosion of the Droid control ship. The big battle above Coruscant in Episode 3? Reminiscent of Episode 4. The quest to find the star forge and destroy it? Reminiscent of Episode 4. Discovering you're the evil sith lord behind Darth Malak? Reminiscent of Episode V. Like I said, this logic automatically makes lots of Star Wars automatically worse because it re-uses ideas from its predecessors. It's not poor writing when done right while feeling fresh and the movie, in my opinion and in lots of other people's opinion, did both.

Of course it is common for films to *reference* past movies and *allude* to past events, yet in TFA, it was more than that, the entire story could have been slotted into an ANH setting and you would struggle to tell the difference!! I'll show you an image that highlights just how similar they are if I can find it.

*EDIT* Found the image

 

[Doctor Evil 51]

I'm not even going to bother responding to the previous post you made Mutilator because that just seems to be a bunch of what you said earlier, only a bit more angry. What I want to say was already said a post earlier, but I'll give you credit for at least attempting to address my points.

 

I'm tired of going in circles responding to the inane backlash about the supposed fault of the movie re-iterating some of what made the first successful, so I'd like to actually discuss what might happen for the following ones

 

( and EU wasn't that great to begin with, post ROTJ or Old republic. TOR was utter garbage and ruined the whole Kotor franchise. I'm glad that was retconned. And yes I did make the distinction )

[1Leonard 134]

 

Rehash: reuse (of old ideas or material) without significant change or improvement. A worthy premise of my description of CLONE! No no no, the EU does not only refer to what is after ROTJ, but everything outside the movies, tv-shows etc. If what they did was merely dispose of the EU following ROTJ then that would have been upsetting, but far more manageable than what they have perpetrated upon SW fans now. They have removed all EU! So all the great Old Republic stories too, even though they're not likely to touch that era again. All I can say is that they better make damn good movies to justify this devastation and so far, I have been disappointed. No you didn't say all SW fans, but you didn't need to because you didn't (until now) make the distinction. You implied most SW fans were like the way you described all the way until now.

 

You're acting as if Disney personally invaded your house, removed all your EU comics and stories, piled them up and burned them. The old EU isn't removed, it's just not canon anymore. The good will still be enjoyed. The (very) bad will still be laughed at.

 

 

 "You SW-fans are a disgrace. If you don't like this movie I hate you!" 

I highly doubt anyone said that.

[LiliArch 115]

Then I can understand your frustration, because for people to be criticizing TFA's usage of the superweapon is ridiculous when ROTJ did the same thing.

Frustration, no. That would require I would actually care, which I do not. (Of course, I've never been a very good SW fan to begin with. OT's writing makes me gackle oh so much at times.)

 

We live in the era of re-makes, and while it did rehash Episode 4 a bit, I think it brought enough new to the table to make it feel fresh

And being the era of re-makes is where most of the modern movies and games fail, in my opinion, but that's another subject entirely. I wouldn't call this one a re-make, though. The way I see it, "re-make" is "let's tell the same story with same characters again, just making it look cooler, or changing the setting slightly". It's not "let's tell the same story again, but with another characters and calling it a sequel". The latter one is just... a Hollywoodian sequel which, even though may feel lame for a storyteller, does make perfectly economical sense. As long as people buy something, it's worth being sold, right?

 

It doesn't mean everyone would like it, but as long as the majority likes it enough to go and see it in the theatre, it's filled its purpose.

[Mutilator57 140]

I'm not even going to bother responding to the previous post you made Mutilator because that just seems to be a bunch of what you said earlier, only a bit more angry. What I want to say was already said a post earlier, but I'll give you credit for at least attempting to address my points.

 

I'm tired of going in circles responding to the inane backlash about the supposed fault of the movie re-iterating some of what made the first successful, so I'd like to actually discuss what might happen for the following ones

 

( and EU wasn't that great to begin with, post ROTJ or Old republic. TOR was utter garbage and ruined the whole Kotor franchise. I'm glad that was retconned. And yes I did make the distinction )

 

You read into my post whatever you like, all I can say is that I haven't even the faintest whiff of anger at the current predicament, more like disappointment. FYI I don't need your 'credit' and would prefer it if you didn't patronise me, this was the holier than thou (arrogant) attitude that HH referred to earlier. Allow me to conclude that your opinion of the EU is not shared by many SW fans and a few bad apples don't warrant throwing out the whole bushel basket. Although I do agree with you on one thing; at the very least a solid foundation has been laid for the remainder of the trilogy, so we should discuss that with (hopefully) the same rigor and enthusiasm!

 

You're acting as if Disney personally invaded your house, removed all your EU comics and stories, piled them up and burned them. The old EU isn't removed, it's just not canon anymore. The good will still be enjoyed. The (very) bad will still be laughed at.

 

I'm expressing my disappointment at the current situation. Is my rhetoric colourful? Yes of course, it is a reflection of what I feel is a mistake for the SW franchise. My issue with the EU being (decanonised?) is that whilst of course it is still enjoyable, it no longer fits into a relatively cohesive whole which other writers could draw upon. In its current state, it is little better than fan-fiction.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

"You SW-fans are a disgrace. If you don't like this movie I hate you!"

 

I highly doubt anyone said that.

I've seen more "If you like this, you're a mindless OT Fanboy" than the opposite.

 

Going back to modding now. Have fun tearing each other apart!

[1Leonard 134]

You read into my post whatever you like, all I can say is that I haven't even the faintest whiff of anger at the current predicament, more like disappointment. FYI I don't need your 'credit', don't patronise me, this was the holier than thou (arrogant) attitude that HH referred to earlier. 

_{^{If I'm honest you're both kind of being dickish to each other. everyone is}}

 

 

I'm expressing my disappointment at the current situation. Is my rhetoric colourful? Yes of course, it is a reflection of what I feel is a mistake for the SW franchise. My issue with the EU being (decanonised?) is that whilst of course it is still enjoyable, it no longer fits into a relatively cohesive whole which other writers could draw upon. In its current state, it is little better than fan-fiction.

 

Honestly, that cohesive whole was a pretty messy place in practice. Sure you had some diamonds, but most of it was mediocre, which was probably why Disney just cut it all out to replace it with something that's a little better. I expect the "new" EU to still be cohesive, there has been no clue to suggest otherwise. It's not like new writers can't draw upon the new stuff. Heck, they can even draw upon the old, not literally referring to the characters but they can revisit and expand upon their ideas and themes.

[Mutilator57 140]

_{^{If I'm honest you're both kind of being dickish to each other. everyone is}}

 

 

I can agree with that, although as you've probably discovered I HATE being patronised so lets avoid doing it to each other and we can get along swell!

 

 

Honestly, that cohesive whole was a pretty messy place in practice. Sure you had some diamonds, but most of it was mediocre, which was probably why Disney just cut it all out to replace it with something that's a little better. I expect the "new" EU to still be cohesive, there has been no clue to suggest otherwise. It's not like new writers can't draw upon the new stuff. Heck, they can even draw upon the old, not literally referring to the characters but they can revisit and expand upon their ideas and themes.

 

That's why I used the word 'relatively'. Of course there were mistakes, flaws, things that were downright laughable. Nevertheless, chucking the baby out with the bathwater was IMO a mistake because whilst all of the EU content is still there to draw upon as you say, in practice however, I doubt that they will use much of it.

[Doctor Evil 51]

I doubt that they will use much of it.

 

Wrong, I can totally see Kylo Renn and Rey having a similar if not the same relationship as Jaina and Jacen did, abliet different since they don't know each other. Disney themselves said that the EU does have some great stuff they can draw on and re-create in their new canon. Who knows, we might even see Thrawn in the next movie ( I actually would have preferred him to General Hux, as cool as he was as the hitler nazi replica, Thrawn would definitely have been a winner for some of the EU fans out there )

[1Leonard 134]

That's why I used the word 'relatively'. Of course there were mistakes, flaws, things that were downright laughable. Nevertheless, chucking the baby out with the bathwater was IMO a mistake because whilst all of the EU content is still there to draw upon as you say

Can see where you're coming from but good and bad are kind of subjective in this case. Who should have made the decision on what to keep and what to throw away? 

 

 

in practice however, I doubt that they will use much of it.

People in this thread have been getting mad because TFA reused some plot points found in the EU (Han and Leia having a kid who goes dark)

 

It's already happening, it'll probably happen again.

I think that people will always find a way to reincorporate good ideas.

[Mutilator57 140]

Just to clarify, I didn't hate the movie, I thought it was great! I just thought that there were some issues that could be addressed and avoided in the next movie is all
 

Wrong, I can totally see Kylo Renn and Rey having a similar if not the same relationship as Jaina and Jacen did, abliet different since they don't know each other. Disney themselves said that the EU does have some great stuff they can draw on and re-create in their new canon. Who knows, we might even see Thrawn in the next movie ( I actually would have preferred him to General Hux, as cool as he was as the hitler nazi replica, Thrawn would definitely have been a winner for some of the EU fans out there )

 

I agree with you. When he addressed his soldiers its like listening to the Nuremberg Rally or something, really frothing-at-the-mouth. It is good that they have used parts of the EU and I am hopeful that they will, but I wished I shared your faith...

 

Can see where you're coming from but good and bad are kind of subjective in this case. Who should have made the decision on what to keep and what to throw away? 

 

Exactly. I would have preferred to keep ALL of it rather than throw it all out.

[Doctor Evil 51]

Exactly. I would have preferred to keep ALL of it rather than throw it all out.

 

Having to sort through all of EU is an immense task, especially when trying to make a movie that can create a new trilogy and stand apart. They will re-incorporate it bit by bit, have faith mate

[Haveayap 127]

How about no Disney title screen?

 

In the past, we had 20th Century Fox.

Well in NZ, we had something similar to this before the movie :/ 

 

along with lots of promotion of several other disney related franchises

 

 

The entire premise of trashing the EU was to remove the shackles and story restrictions that this imposed on the new trilogy. If they used that opportunity to make a movie which was effectively a rehash of another classic, with parralels, allusions and references as far as the eye can see then I think it's safe to say that they played it *too* safe and I would venture to say, wasted the opportunity. 

 

 

Nail on the head, although I felt even in ROTJ it was stretching it a little thin. They got around this however, by revolving the story around not the super weapon but around Luke, his father and the Emperor.

 

 

Exactly. I had no emotional involvement in the Republic's (demise?). While were on it too, what was the purpose of differentiating the Resistance and Republic - had me scratching my head the entire movie.

 

Thats another issue with Ep. 7, the only way to understand all of it is to go read all of the other content which I am pretty sure 90% of movie watchers do not want to do that... (the reasoning for the difference between the rep and the resistance has been explained in the books) 

 

 

What they did was create spiritual rehash of Episode IV by bringing back certain ideas of what made the first great. Films copy off their predecessors all the damn time, and LMAO EU was a pile of trash other than the jedi knight series and Thrawn as you said. Emperor Reborn was about as intelligent as dumb and dumber.

 

The movie was intended to be for the next generation of movie-goers while giving the oldies some nostalgia.. .Yes it borrows heavily, but I don't get why that's such a bad thing when it works fine. And no, it's not effectively a clone, there are quite some differences between this and Episode IV mate.

 

I am a Star Wars fan, but sometimes I'm ashamed to be one because of how autistic certain fans can act, especially when they blindly hate the prequels when they weren't nearly as bad as what people say they are (though they aren't good).

 

 

I don't get where you're getting this idea of finding Luke is a weak plot and got overshadowed. It was still one of the main points of the movie, but destroying a weapon that can suck up stars takes precedence. It wasn't necessarily a huge arc on its own more or less a plot point

 

 

This was an issue I believe could have been easily resolved in the opening text crawl, but if you need a movie to explain everything to you on a silver platter with no explanation at all then go watch the originals again. These movies are intended to be trilogy rather than stand-alone-ish like the originals were.

 

 

Yes, let's put Rey on some generic prison ship/station/planet 101 that's completely forgettable and serves no purpose but to just hold Rey prisoner, how dare it have more than one use! How dare it be a superweapon for a regime that models itself off the Galactic Empire, a regime that ruled through fear of destruction!

 

It's there because it's the First Order's tool for victory over the Republic, and it's also there because like it or not, this movie isn't geared just those who saw the originals and loved it but for, like I said and Disney said, the next generation.

 

If you want to blame somebody for how the movie "played it safe", then blame yourselves because the Star Wars fans were what cause George Lucas to change the plot of the prequels (even though they weren't good anyway), and fear of fan backlash is what drove them to make the movie somewhat safe.

 

I don't get why you all are so angry at them re-using the superweapon again, because by that logic then ROTJ is automatically worse for it using a second Death Star. I was happy they modeled it somewhat off A New Hope because it's the start of something good for star wars.

 

What s ridiculous statement... No one here is actually saying TFA was a bad movie, but it has several issues such as a copy and paste of EP. 4 plot, a stupid overused super weapon, the movie does not stand on its on (to fully understand everything that has happened, you need to read other material). Im starting to believe that you are just trying to kid yourself into this movie as being the 'perfect' master piece much like the prequal haters who try and claim they are the worst films in history when it is not (No movie can be truly perfect, maybe except TESB)

[8t88 1]

I tend away from discussions about reused plot points in Star Wars, (Previously I did it with EU material, now I guess I'll be doing it with TFA) because it all seems a bit pointless to me.

 

Take A New Hope. It uses the granddaddy of cliched story-lines, (Farm Boy saves Princess from Black Knight/Sorcerer's Castle) and it worked very well. That's one of the big things that made ANH great, it took a story-line you'd seen and did a new spin on it. As long as TFA does this,  (I haven't seen it yet) and does it well, I'll be okay with it.

 

 

Exactly. I would have preferred to keep ALL of it rather than throw it all out.

 

 

I don't mean to be rude, but some of the EU is... messed up. Take for example the Jedi Prince thing that technically was still canon. Apparently somebody thought back in the day that the jedi must have some weird monarchical hierarchy. That series also introduced the Emperor's three eyed, mutant son, (Frankly, I don't want Sidious and procreation in my mind at the same time; It makes me shudder.)  

 

I miss a lot of the EU too, but when people say they want EVERYTHING back, I just have to mention that.

[Mutilator57 140]

I tend away from discussions about reused plot points in Star Wars, (Previously I did it with EU material, now I guess I'll be doing it with TFA) because it all seems a bit pointless to me.

 

Take A New Hope. It uses the granddaddy of cliched story-lines, (Farm Boy saves Princess from Black Knight/Sorcerer's Castle) and it worked very well. That's one of the big things that made ANH great, it took a story-line you'd seen and did a new spin on it. As long as TFA does this,  (I haven't seen it yet) and does it well, I'll be okay with it.

 

 

 

 

I don't mean to be rude, but some of the EU is... messed up. Take for example the Jedi Prince thing that technically was still canon. Apparently somebody thought back in the day that the jedi must have some weird monarchical hierarchy. That series also introduced the Emperor's three eyed, mutant son, (Frankly, I don't want Sidious and procreation in my mind at the same time; It makes me shudder.)  

 

I miss a lot of the EU too, but when people say they want EVERYTHING back, I just have to mention that.

 

If you actually look at the context of the 70s ANH was actually atypical of its time. The movies of the 70s were one's filled with antiheroes and tragic endings, ANH was actually the first of a new generation of films that reverted to the old monomyth formula.

 

As for the EU all I can do is keep repeating what I have been saying, just because of junk like what you've mentioned doesn't mean it all had to be thrown away, that's the beauty of a creative universe, writers are free to take their own risks with stories. Sometimes they produce junk, but sometimes they make masterpieces. One need only look to KotOR as an example.

[8t88 1]

If you actually look at the context of the 70s ANH was actually atypical of its time. The movies of the 70s were one's filled with antiheroes and tragic endings, ANH was actually the first of a new generation of films that reverted to the old monomyth formula.

 

I think you've missed the point.  Reused plot points are reused plot points, regardless of context. If TFA is doing it, its nothing new when it comes to Star Wars.

 

As for the EU all I can do is keep repeating what I have been saying, just because of junk like what you've mentioned doesn't mean it all had to be thrown away, that's the beauty of a creative universe, writers are free to take their own risks with stories. Sometimes they produce junk, but sometimes they make masterpieces. One need only look to KotOR as an example.

 

Your opinion. Though I was more commenting on your statement that you wanted ALL of it back. A lot of people who say that, no offense intended, don't know the EU as much as they think they do. All together, about a fourth of the EU is good, while the rest drifts between mediocre and painfully horrid.

 

And its not entirely gone, take Star Wars Rebels for instance. They basically took the idea of the Inquisitors straight out of the EU.

[Mutilator57 140]

I think you've missed the point.  Reused plot points are reused plot points, regardless of context. If TFA is doing it, its nothing new when it comes to Star Wars.

 

 

Your opinion. Though I was more commenting on your statement that you wanted ALL of it back. A lot of people who say that, no offense intended, don't know the EU as much as they think they do. All together, about a fourth of the EU is good, while the rest drifts between mediocre and painfully horrid.

 

And its not entirely gone, take Star Wars Rebels for instance. They basically took the idea of the Inquisitors straight out of the EU.

Your point was that it used '...the grandaddy of cliched story-lines...' and thus took something we'd seen and it worked well. My point about the context was meant to illustrate that it actually wasn't something we'd seen, or at least, not something seen in that era of cinema and that's why it worked. It defied expectations. 

 

And am I to suppose that you are an erudite when it comes to knowledge of the EU? That you know something more than people who actually like and wanted to keep the EU? No offence intended of course I can assure you I know the EU quite well so your concern is unfounded. Nevertheless, I have said it again and again and again, just because some of the EU was flawed does NOT mean it needed to all be chucked. Besides, as my learned colleague pointed out earlier, how do we know what was good and what wasn't, it's all subjective right? Just like your figure of a fourth of the EU which is entirely your opinion.

 

As for Rebels, you've got to be joking. I want the EU to be used, not massacred by its inclusion in this IMO sad-excuse for a television show!

[Doctor Evil 51]

As for Rebels, you've got to be joking. I want the EU to be used, not massacred by its inclusion in this IMO sad-excuse for a television show!

 

I'm guessing you hated Clone Wars as well, If you hate Rebels then you my friend are a lost cause ( no offense )