Thor110 502 Posted October 26 (edited) While porting over the missing rooms from the Sith Academy on Korriban and adding the missing room to the Hotel on Manaan, I got carried away looking around Manaan's levels and was overwhelmed by the amount of holes in the level geometry, so I decided to take a crack at fixing some of it up. I'm amazed how many clearly visible holes there are, these level repairs will be included with my port but I will also release them for the original game. If anyone knows of any problems like this, feel free to let me know and I will look into fixing them, it would be nice to see every level in the game get this treatment even if it takes a little while. Manaan - m26ae & m26ac Spoiler This is the area with the hotel and the missing room, so this is where I have started for now. These images show some of the more prominent holes that I have repaired. Spoiler manm26ae manm26ac Here's an overview of the level as a whole. Spoiler This is the original level model. Walkmesh This is the level with my current edits, I have even been able to delete the large black box that was made just to cover up all of the holes in the level geometry. Walkmesh I decided to delete some of the excess walkmesh pieces as it felt like they were unnecessary, however the moment I was done with that, I realised that it's probably used by EAX audio to reverberate sounds off of the walkmesh, I will find out if that is definitely the case and if it is, I can just swap them back out for the originals fairly quickly. Nearly every vertice I have checked so far has been out of line with the one next to it! There's a lot of tinkering and thinking left to do and as this isn't really my area of expertise I don't know how far I will get, but I would like to look over every level and fix every hole if I can find the time and patience to deal with all of the problems. Merging Levels Not sure how feasible this is, but in theory both these parts of Manaan could be made into a single level, as they both match up alongside one another when imported, however the other parts of Manaan do not. Spoiler The Endar Spire levels also fit together. Taris Sewers Thor110 Edited October 28 by Thor110 Screenshots Manaan 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthParametric 3,790 Posted October 27 6 hours ago, Thor110 said: Not sure how feasible this is It's entirely possible. The level geometry side of things is the least of it though. The main thing would be ensuring there are no problems arising from changing module IDs, since Manaan has multiple instances of cross-module teleporting as part of the main plot. There might also be problems with ResRef clashes, since both Bioware and Obdisian did love their generic name reuse. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor110 502 Posted October 27 3 hours ago, DarthParametric said: It's entirely possible. The level geometry side of things is the least of it though. The main thing would be ensuring there are no problems arising from changing module IDs, since Manaan has multiple instances of cross-module teleporting as part of the main plot. There might also be problems with ResRef clashes, since both Bioware and Obdisian did love their generic name reuse. The ResRef Clashes could take a little while to deal with, but the cross-module teleporting would be a simple matter of updating the teleporting scripts and doors. Just did a search of the Manaan levels and these are the files that reference manm26ae. Spoiler manm26ab.rim manm26ac.rim manm26ac_s.rim manm26ae.rim manm28aa_s.rim And manm26ac is referenced by the following files. Spoiler manm26aa.rim manm26ac.rim manm26ad.rim manm26ae.rim As for it's feasibility I meant more along the lines of if it would be problematic to load in on Mobile or Xbox, though for PC I am sure it would be no issue at all. I did look at the other parts of Manaan but they are at totally different locations and rotations, so connecting the whole area would be a pain, it's a tempting prospect though. Do you know if the walkmeshes are used for EAX audio? I suspect they are but am not certain. 10 hours ago, Thor110 said: I decided to delete some of the excess walkmesh pieces as it felt like they were unnecessary, however the moment I was done with that, I realised that it's probably used by EAX audio to reverberate sounds off of the walkmesh, I will find out if that is definitely the case and if it is, I can just swap them back out for the originals fairly quickly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salk 375 Posted October 27 I would not mess with merging modules at all, but I'd welcome any model fixes done to the Manaan geometry for the original game. I think the K1 CP would be the natural home for those, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor110 502 Posted October 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Salk said: I would not mess with merging modules at all, but I'd welcome any model fixes done to the Manaan geometry for the original game. I think the K1 CP would be the natural home for those, though. Too late, I already done it though I haven't merged the level contents yet, but I have a version of the level where I can walk between all of the rooms from both levels. But I will release the model fixes as a stand alone when I am done with them. I am also looking to fix any other models with holes in them throughout both games, so if you know of any, feel free to point them out. Edited October 27 by Thor110 YouTube Preview 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N-DReW25 1,338 Posted October 28 On 10/27/2024 at 6:22 AM, Thor110 said: I'm amazed how many clearly visible holes there are, these level repairs will be included with my port but I will also release them for the original game. If anyone knows of any problems like this, feel free to let me know and I will look into fixing them, it would be nice to see every level in the game get this treatment even if it takes a little while. I know I've reported a few noticeable issues on Manaan to the K1CP bug tracker a while back and they've since fixed them in the 1.10 update. When you download K1CP, it comes with a list of the things the mod has fixed (alternatively, this same list might also be on one of their public GitHubs). You could use this list to see what they've fixed so that you can fix them in your own mod, I wouldn't want to use your mod and find out it undoes the model fixes of K1CP. On 10/27/2024 at 8:58 PM, Thor110 said: I am also looking to fix any other models with holes in them throughout both games, so if you know of any, feel free to point them out. The Endar Spire. Even with the K1CP mod installed, which already does fix pre-existing holes, if you look for them you can still find holes. Off by memory, the first module end_m01aa is still ripe with holes in the walls. But I think this model problem is something you'd be interested in. In the hallways of the starboard section (end_m01ab), if you look up at the ceiling you'll see overhead pipes yet in the hallways of the Command Module (end_m01aa), the parts of the ceiling where the overhead pipes should be are empty. And yet there are Beta screenshots of the Command Module halls having overhead pipes as seen here. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor110 502 Posted October 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said: I know I've reported a few noticeable issues on Manaan to the K1CP bug tracker a while back and they've since fixed them in the 1.10 update. When you download K1CP, it comes with a list of the things the mod has fixed (alternatively, this same list might also be on one of their public GitHubs). You could use this list to see what they've fixed so that you can fix them in your own mod, I wouldn't want to use your mod and find out it undoes the model fixes of K1CP. I agree, I guess I will have to take a look at them. 3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said: The Endar Spire. Even with the K1CP mod installed, which already does fix pre-existing holes, if you look for them you can still find holes. Off by memory, the first module end_m01aa is still ripe with holes in the walls. This is how many holes there are in the walls, they added planes behind nearly every section of the level to try and hide them! 3 hours ago, N-DReW25 said: But I think this model problem is something you'd be interested in. In the hallways of the starboard section (end_m01ab), if you look up at the ceiling you'll see overhead pipes yet in the hallways of the Command Module (end_m01aa), the parts of the ceiling where the overhead pipes should be are empty. And yet there are Beta screenshots of the Command Module halls having overhead pipes as seen here. I don't think I have seen those screenshots before so it's interesting to see some of the differences. All of this really started as me adding the missing room in the hotel and I got carried away! There are already a lot of model fixes available for both games, but Manaan doesn't have a stand alone set of fixes that I know of. Update : I have checked all of the model fixes present in the KotOR1 Community Patch for Manaan. There is only one model file currently that has fixes from the group of model files I have applied fixes to as noted here. https://github.com/KOTORCommunityPatches/K1_Community_Patch/issues/476 I also made those changes while editing the levels in this area as well as fixing a wide range of holes in the level geometry and even adding some geometry as seen here. Spoiler Missing Roof Added I still have a little bit of work to do to on these levels, but so far as I can see there are no fixes that I haven't also made. Edited October 28 by Thor110 Update 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salk 375 Posted October 29 I'll certainly be using these model fixes for the original game once they're out. I want to point out that other than the K1 CP, there's been a number of geometry repairs made to both K1 and K2 by @PapaZinos. Coordinating efforts would go a long way, I think. Cheers! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor110 502 Posted October 29 3 hours ago, Salk said: Coordinating efforts would go a long way, I think. Agreed! I was hoping between us all we could do exactly that. 3 hours ago, Salk said: I want to point out that other than the K1 CP, there's been a number of geometry repairs made to both K1 and K2 by @PapaZinos. Thank you, I am aware and have their model fixes included with my project. 3 hours ago, Salk said: I'll certainly be using these model fixes for the original game once they're out. I still have a few little issues to fix and some UV issues to sort out, there's an absolute mess around every vertice on Manaan it seems, they all seem ever so slightly out of line with on another! I have also taken the liberty of deleting faces that exist in places where they are not visible. Such as on all of these types of pillars. I am also working on adding ceilings to each of the hallway sections like this. Because previously there was a noticeable gap up the sides of all the hallways where the sky was visible. As seen in the following images. These exist in every hallway throughout Manaan. I also cleaned up these little kinks in the corners of the sections with these pillars. Removing 7 faces from each section and simply adjusting the existing faces to cover the gap. Note : the holes in the hallways are visible here too. There really is a lot to fix it seems! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salk 375 Posted October 29 Great investigative job there. Out of curiosity, have you by any chances checked for similar issues also on other planets? I'm just wondering if the geometric mess you unearthed on Manaan is extraordinary rather than standard quality check on Bioware part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthParametric 3,790 Posted October 29 11 minutes ago, Salk said: extraordinary rather than standard It's pretty much the norm across all modules. Just depends on how deep you want to go looking. The more problems you fix, the more new problems you discover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salk 375 Posted October 29 3 minutes ago, DarthParametric said: It's pretty much the norm across all modules. Just depends on how deep you want to go looking. The more problems you fix, the more new problems you discover. That's depressing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor110 502 Posted October 29 35 minutes ago, Salk said: Great investigative job there. Out of curiosity, have you by any chances checked for similar issues also on other planets? I'm just wondering if the geometric mess you unearthed on Manaan is extraordinary rather than standard quality check on Bioware part. I haven't had a close look at other areas of the game, Manaan definitely has some spectacular messes though. 22 minutes ago, DarthParametric said: It's pretty much the norm across all modules. Just depends on how deep you want to go looking. The more problems you fix, the more new problems you discover. It's infuriating, so many vertices slightly out of line! 18 minutes ago, Salk said: That's depressing. It really is! I have also been looking into cleaning up excess geometry, deleting faces that cannot be seen and merging faces that can be one, like this. It seems somewhat pointless but I feel like making the changes while I am there. I haven't actually applied these changes to my fixes yet because I need to figure out how to properly adjust the lightmap in order for this to actually work, though there are countless problems with the lightmaps, I would rather not add more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salk 375 Posted October 29 Yes, DP has reported how the lightmaps in the original game are often a complete disaster. Honestly, I sometimes wonder - considering all the input from modders that delved into the game's resources - how the game could be kept together, let alone making it functional enough. 😅 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor110 502 Posted October 29 (edited) 23 hours ago, Salk said: Yes, DP has reported how the lightmaps in the original game are often a complete disaster. Honestly, I sometimes wonder - considering all the input from modders that delved into the game's resources - how the game could be kept together, let alone making it functional enough. 😅 Yeah, it's surprising, some of it is so wrong. Realistically the game needs remaking from the ground up. Update : I just spent the best part of a day writing a plugin for Blender to help speed up the process of realigning the misaligned vertices throughout Manaan. The script also works for Objects in Blender, because why not. I kept looking at the "Snap -> Selection to Active" button in the menu, thinking it could help if only it did a single axes, but there wasn't an option for only using one, so I made it happen. Edit : More Manaan fixes. Spoiler I keep seeing these holes everywhere! Sometimes distorted UV's too. Is the cantina supposed to have no roof!!!!!! Must get wet in there if it rains... And this one which I know K1CP already fixes but I fixed it anyway. So many problems... Edited October 30 by Thor110 More Manaan Fixes 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthParametric 3,790 Posted October 31 On 10/30/2024 at 3:12 AM, Thor110 said: Realistically the game needs remaking from the ground up Well that is supposedly happening, although I suspect that whatever eventuates is likely going to be KOTOR in name only. As far as the mod community remaking levels goes, there's not much point while still bound to Odyssey's limitations. If reone ever gets to a usable point, or if nVidia add OpenGL support to Remix, then that would be a viable option. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
farazrock13 0 Posted November 1 Hey Thor I had a request if you would be able to do it I would be forever grateful. I wanted to know if you could do the same mod for Kotor 2. I finished the game and the only way I can currently is by not doing the missions close to the end to prevent the restart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thor110 502 Posted November 1 2 hours ago, farazrock13 said: Hey Thor I had a request if you would be able to do it I would be forever grateful. I wanted to know if you could do the same mod for Kotor 2. I finished the game and the only way I can currently is by not doing the missions close to the end to prevent the restart. I don't know what you are referring to exactly. This thread is focused around 3D model repairs for both games, but it sounds to me like you are asking me to make a free roam mod for kotor 2 like I did for kotor 1 and I already have, I released them both at the same time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
