Doctor Evil

The superweapon in The Force Awakens doesn't work because it's completely unnecessary and there's no buildup to it. You think the purpose of the First Order's actions are to find Luke Skywalker before the Resistance does. It's not really explained why in detail, but it's enough to go on for a while. Then they introduce "the weapon" out of nowhere and soon after the new Republic is destroyed before we ever knew who they were or how and why they fit into the picture. And then suddenly the movie is about destoying the Starkiller and saving Rey instead of anything the first hour was building up to.

 

In the original Star Wars, the Death Star is central to the entire plot from beginning to end.

The movie actually turned to saving Rey, rather... And the New Republic was formed from what was the Rebellion in the first movie. I don't think that they were entirely destroyed but who knows. Starkiller base was slowly built up to it, just because it wasn't the central point doesn't mean it wasn't important to the plot

Again, TFA is not a bad movie. IMO, the super weapon has been rehashed one to many times... It was fine in Ep. 4 and 6, but ep. 7 should have gone with something new

So the fact that it has a superweapon at all automatically hurts its credibility? The superweapon wasn't even the central point of the plot. Everything you're saying seems to be copy and pasted from what the trolls on IMDB boards are saying... "EP 7 used superweapon, EP7 isn't original, should be different"

Please tell me how you would have done Episode 7 then, enlighten me. If something is successful, you can guarantee it might be re-used in the future. It worked for Episode 4, it worked for this movie. One of the reasons for making this movie was to create Star Wars for a new generation, and thus I figured they're re-create some of what made the very first movie awesome in order to bring it to some of the younger fans like myself who never got to experience the original in theatres. Did it borrow a bit from the originals? Certainly. Did it feel fresh? Absolutely. It's all about the execution, and here it was done great

not everyone agrees with my opinion on ANH (I think I have already expressed some of the issues I have with Ep. 4, its obvious no one else agrees with me so Ill leave it at that), but I think most people agree with me about TFA... 

If you think most people agree with you on TFA then you need to check A. the Rotton Tomatoes score and B. the IMDB score, both of which are extremely high for Star Wars (IMDB score is dropping a bit due to the excess in trolls though). All you've cited so far is subjective evidence that isn't even solid, as for your criticisms of TFA, you're complaining about it not being original... which I again go back to one of my points. If you didn't like how it wasn't original, then why are you watching Star Wars? And if you didn't like how it had a superweapon, why did you like ANH and, even more importantly, Return of the Jedi, both of which centered around superweapons. If anything, the Starkiller is not the central plot point of TFA. Finding Luke skywalker is.

You have yet to answer me on any of these points what so ever, if you can't back up your claims then why do you keep making them over and over?

That's not in the least bit relevant, what's relevant is that we saw people/things we did not know talk about things we cared nothing about. 

 

Do you honestly think episode I's intro is as exciting as IV's?

To be fair, it's not an action intro like Episode IV is, you could say the intro is more akin to Return of the Jedi's style intro

I am being harsh as I do like the movie (Probably more due to the nostalgia of it being the first SW movie), but it isnt my favorite one and it does have alot of issues with it that 90% of SW fans either fail to recognize or pretend they are not their

From what we're seeing, you're being critical for the sake of being critical as you were with TFA. If you could actually cite some concrete examples of why you think ANH is an inferior movie to the others then maybe we'd take this more seriously, because all of what you're citing is opinionated.

Oh please, everything before the death star in ANH was boring, the battle scene (although interesting, decided to focus more on C3-PO bad comedic act and R2-D2 escape), and most of the scenes on Tatooine are bland and boring. Instead of getting to see the storm troopers (and fett) in action, we get to hear about an old man rave on about how he knew Lukes father and was a jedi once. The acting was avg at best (Mark Hammils acting in ANH was not great). If it wasnt for the introduction of the death star and the rebellion at the end of this film (which shouldnt even have been in the film as the last battle had very little to do with the actual plot, which isnt actually explained to well either. Was the plot about saving Leia? Or teaching Luke about the force? Or destroying the death star? Or even Luke getting away from tatooine... And this is one issue most people have with EP. 1), Id go as far as to say it would have one of the worst SW movies out of the 6.

I see what you did there... stealing my mojo.

You seem to flip flop between opinions faster than Kim Kardashian changes clothes. You originally said Episode 4 was good by lopping it in the same category as 3 which you said you liked a lot, and now you're saying it's not? Make up your mind about the movies for crying out loud and create a solid argument for your point... this just seems like pointless rambling by someone who's trying to sound like a non-conformist (no offense).

And Leonard once again pretty much said what needed to be said there, not much else I can say on my end

I agree completely, TFA was essentially JJ and Disney trying to please all the OT fanboys. It was a good movie, but the plot just takes the shine away from the movie. The whole super weapon thing is really starting to get old IMO (and why would the first order make a weapon more vulnerable than the death star that can only be used twice, thats hardly threatening) and has been used one to many times. But its not just that, even alot the new characters in this movie feel like they are from the EU (Lets face it, Ben solo is similar to Ben skywalker (just different parents))...

So you're saying they're similar characters just because they share the name? I haven't read EU heavily, but from what I know Jacen is more akin to Kylo Renn than Ben Skywalker is... do your homework.

And once again, you're letting a lack of originality ruin your experience, so why didn't it ruin your experience with ROTJ when that was focused around a superweapon?

Such contradictions

EDIT: If anything, using the elements of the EU is great because there were some good parts of it, and Disney said that they would re-incarnate the good parts of EU

You have got to be trolling here.

 

The prequels aren't hated because they were different. They were just badly made movies. I'm currently rewatching all of the movies with my girlfriend an the prequels are just a bore after the OT. Has nothing to do with being different, but everything to with their quality. 

 

Politics can be exciting (House of Cards, Game of Thrones), but Lucas decided to focus on it in the prequels and just didn't cut it.

 

And for the record: I do not hate the prequel trilogy, not at all! I just acknowledge that they have flaws and aren't as good as the Original Trilogy (though III and VI are on the same level sometimes).

This post also summizes my thoughts, but I can tell you that there are people who hate any Star Wars that isn't like the originals

No, they're not. Boring, badly written, computer generated prequels are.

Episode II was a result of Lucas changing the plot because so many people complained about Jar Jar and what happened in episode I, IMO Episode I's CGI usage as just fine, it was Episode II had it bad because they had to change a lot... but that's a discussion for another topic

As for the fanboys, it is actually true in some sorts because a majority of the vocal haters on this movie tend to be those who liked only the original movies,

I was more surprised by TIE Fighters fitting two people.

Star Wars rebels showed it could, though it was tight. This is 30 years later in terms of tech and likely has some differences over what we saw in the original

But still, there are many bootlickers in charge of Star Wars who try to please the fanboys. The Force Awakens is essentially a more violent remake of A New Hope, and on Rotten Tomatoes, it has about the same rating as A New Hope. I'm pretty sure a reviewer said that Episode VII pretty much has the same plot as A New Hope, but that's what they wanted. And I think that was the reason the Prequels weren't universally loved, because they were different from the Original Trilogy.

This is true, that's what made the prequels fail in the eyes of some fans, and that's what sadly made Disney afraid to screw up TFA and thus played it safe, because of said backlash by fans, but it's happening because now it's what they wanted with the prequels... TBH OT fanboys are the cancer that nearly killed this franchise

* In the old movies they did explain it would need the Force to wield lightsabers without just cutting yourself to pieces... here; not so much. Even if Finn isn't great at it, he does seem to handle it (and he hit Ben Solo).

That's just retarded... If I needed some magical powers to wield some sword then medieval warfare would have been a myth. If anything, I'm glad that concept has been retconned. The only thing that separates Lightsabers from swords is that they are made of lasers. That's it. And before you make this point, the general populace doesn't use them because they probably prefer blasters to what they think is an antiquated weapon

OH, and I need a source on where they said that, never heard that one before

* Sounds like Disciple, still needs training though to be a Force User.

Didn't I say she had training? The age she was left on Jakku, she probably was trained from being a toddler, not exactly hard. Oh, and in the Clone Wars we saw toddlers able to move stuff with the force without ANY training what so ever, and THATS canon.

* The movie could have worked perfectly well without the super-weapon. I mean; the main plot was going for Skywalker anyway. No superweapon needed there. It felt tacked on for the sake of having a super-weapon.

Agreed, but for me it worked... The plot involved rertrieving Rey from the first order, might as well have that base where they are keeping her be more significant than some random prison outpost

* Still, you would expect bombers to accompany a bombing run, no matter how upgraded the fighters are.

Don't get why you'd need them when the fighters themselves are bombers, just split them up for different uses

* I like II and III. Sadly, I do feel this one's sticking way too close to IV.

Episode II was pathetic, the plot didn't get moving until the last 30 minutes. Episode III I liked, but had some bad parts... Episode I is not a great movie, but vastly overhated

Well, I would give it around 6.5/10. It's not horrible but I expected much much better.

 

I have to agree with most things Zbyl say. Why are there a New Republic AND Resistance? How did the First Order rise from the ashes of a destroyed Empire which had no more power? Where does Snoke come from in a Jedi and Sith-less galaxy? (Atleast Ben was explained). And to answer the question, it was stated in the movie Luke removed himself after his student fell to the dark side. Ben Solo that was. If any other students where mentioned I missed that, just the one. Which answered where a Sith came from post-ROTJ. But still, what's up with Snoke?

*cough* Darth Plageuis/Jar Jar *cough* They'll explain it in the next movie, though if it turns out to be some random sith guy I will in fact be disappointed

 

Some other irksome stuff of the movie:

* A lightsaber is a Jedi weapon. Here; everyone can just use it with the flick of a button, even Finn. Heck, he even beats the Jedi, the ones who where supposed to be the only lightsaber users without cutting their own limbs off? Why?

Does the same rule apply to katanas? If someone isn't a samurai they can't wield a Katana what so ever? Finn didn't know what he was doing and he had no choice. His first time he didn't have a blaster and ended up getting his ass kicked by a trooper with what looked like an electric pole (as expected). The second time he had no choice because Rey was out cold and he had to hold Kylo Renn off otherwise he'd just take her again, and Finn fittingly got his ass kicked again. So it's not like he's super skilled with it, in fact it shows he's out of his league, but using a lightsaber is actually as easy as flicking a goddamn button... because that's all it takes to turn it on.

 

* Likewise the female Skywalker (no way she's not related) suddenly gaining all powers without training, you know, unlike Luke or Anakin, THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI IN THE GALAXY mind you, seems... well, super-cheap. I was kinda expecting the Stormtrooper to walk to the door and then sarcastically comment he's joking like the first time... or when he opened the door Ben Solo was there instead. But big was my suprise when it turned out... it was working instead. And... out of the movie into the "wtf?" area.

This I agree was questionable, but again I attribute this to that there's more to Rey than meets the eye... Methinks she was one of Luke's students at an early age but when Renn attacked she was put somewhere "safe" and she repressed the memory... who knows.

 

* Complete rehash of IV. Droid send with information to planet made of sand, meets a Skywalker, meet resistance, blow up superweapon. Well, all check.

Except the droid wasn't relaying info of the superweapon, rather info of Skywalker... and it was incomplete. Finn had the info on the superweapon, and the focus on the Starkiller base wasn't until the 3rd act of the movie.

Talking about superweapons... really... REALLY? You don't need to have a 4x Death Star to make a good movie, thank you. Infact the stupidness of this weapon did infact degree my enjoyment of the movie. Seriously, no more superweapons please. This isn't The Old Republic where BioWare is so out-of-ideas there are 3 super-weapons per planet to take out, if not more.

I agree on this that after this movie there should be no more superweapons for a long time... But people accepted what EU threw out and it was galvanized with so many superweapons I couldn't tell which was which. For this instance, it worked for me because it is a reboot of the franchise

 

* Sometimes a bit too much overacting on Rey and Finn, which got annoying. When they weren't shouting or going "woooooo, that's *one* good pilot!" it was much better.

Occasionally, but when has Star Wars ever had perfect acting?

 

* A distinction was made between stormtroopers and clone troopers was made, which was a nice touch, but they didn't really went far with it afterwards, sadly enough. Talking about stormtroopers, they HIT stuff. So non-Star Warsy. Total canon-break

Lmao, well to be fair these are different stormtroopers.... maybe they just got better training

 

So yeah... definitely too many points of annoyance to make me go all "great movie!"

Sticking close to ANH, then completely overpower *everything* (super-weapon, Jedi) doesn't make a better movie.

But it did work for ANH, and the superweapon mcguffin worked for Episode 6, if we get annoyed at over used plots then Star Wars probably would end up in the dumpster fire of bad movies... But I agree, no more superweapons after this

 

EDIT:

Thought of another "why?" during the movie...

* With the bombing run they use X-Wings too, X-Wings are fighters though, the Y-Wings are for bombing... but... no Y-Wings anywhere to be found. Why?

But X-wings are armed with proton torpedoes, as seen in Episode 4, so they can function as fighter/bombers. Y-wings are a lot less versatile.

 

This is more proof that most OT fanboys don't like a different story.

Actually it's the OT fanboys who are complaining most about this crap, they complain about anything. It's why I can't stand most of them who A. cry about the Prequels and B. Cry about the edits to the originals

But Ep. 6 was just a better film full stop. More emotional, made more sense (you didnt have to read 10 books to fully understand the plot)... Ep. 7 was good, but it had nothing on EP. 5 and 6 sorry, they are in a league of themselves (and Im sure most people would agree)... Like I said before, their is nothing wrong with ep. 7, but this story line has been rehashed one to many times and mirroring ep 4 plot was annoying. I wouldnt rate Ep. 7 in league with ep 5, or 6, but id say its as good as 4, and 3

Oh please, if you need to read books to understand the plot of episode 7, then you're doing it wrong. I knew absolutely nothing coming in other than what was given from the trailers and I had a fine understanding of the plot, and I emotionally was really satisfied with what I saw on screen in terms of Finn nearly croaking and Han getting stabbed by his son (while I knew that would happen). Yes, I'd say episode 6 was great emotionally in its finale, however the sense of realism was horribly maligned in terms of contrived plot design, the worst death for a great side character ever, a pathetic ending that is unrealistic for the executor, and, again, the whole damn ewok sequence. If you say episode 6 is better than Episode 4 then you my friend are a lost cause. Most people in fact say Episode 6 is the weakest film of the trilogy mate, and most people agree with me that TFA is a damn good film. While Episode 5 is still the best movie in the franchise ( and quite possibly one of the best movies in history ), I'd say Episode 7 makes its case for a solid second best movie in Star Wars... and that's high praise. Episode 6 is tied with Episode 3 for 4th/5th best, but they are still good movies

I still don't get this whole "omg it's like episode 4 it's bad" and somebody needs to explain that one to me, because by that logic then lots of what many people consider good star wars is bad (kotor, for example)

Episode 6 is in the same category as episode 3... good movies marred by awful scenes or sequences. With Episode 6 it's the ewoks, and Episode 3 is the occassionally awful dialogue writing.

Episode 7 is far superior to both in terms of me caring and me enjoying the movie. Just because it isn't original makes it bad. Look at Kotor, the whole thing revolved around finding a way to destroy the giant mcguffin device known as the Star Forge, serving as a similar maguffin to the death star. It borrowed heavily in terms of plot elements from the originals... Does that make it bad? If anything it having similarities to episode 4 is an homage to what made Star Wars great and since it's been 40 years since the first movie was released, it's quite forgivable.

I'm sorry, but these complaints of "oh it's not original so I can't like it" are nearly as annoying as the whole "Jar Jar is the worst thing ever made and the prequels suck entirely" saga

EDIT: Lemme point out that Episode 6 also had a superweapon, the Death Star II, as the mcguffin.

Its not a bad movie, Im still going to be critical off it as the rehashed plot is really annoying and lets be honest, it shouldnt of happened. As  the days go by, I am getting more and more critical of the movie (It is in no way a master piece, I still prefer ep 3, 5 and 6)

So if it's not original in its plot it's automatically annoying? Ok, so you must not like any MCU movies.

And if you prefer Episode 6 to this movie then that's all I need to hear lmao

And by the way, I consider myself critical of movies as well

Admittedly the movie follows a similar structure to Episode IV, however it is in no way a bad movie and in fact I like it so much that it's my second favorite star wars movie made at 9.2/10 (behind ESB @ 9.5/10).

Re-hashing what made Episode IV great was brilliant because it allows people who didn't get to experience that movie in the theatres (like me) to do so while also bringing a lot of new ideas, characters, and stories to the table. In that effect, it works beautifully. Rey is fantastic, Finn is quite hilarious, BB-8 is genius, and Renn is excellent and arguablly well acted (though the whole temper tantrum scene was strange). Despite the fact that I could predict the whole plot of the movie before I saw it, I still love it. That doesn't make it bad, as long as it does it right... and it did. The MCU-like comedy also worked for Star Wars, and I love that it was implemented. And yes, it did feel like Star Wars.

There's a group of people who decided to start bitching about this movie so much that it makes me sick, it's the same baseless argument behind those who blindly hate the prequels. Since when has Star Wars ever been 100% original? I think a lot of Star Wars fans don't know what they want and when anything isn't exactly what they want they start complaining and it's what ruined the prequels. I sincerely hope it doesn't with this trilogy. There's also those who are running their mouths about the movie saying how it's bad simply to sound like they're not a part of the pack. Being a hipster doesn't make you cool, it just either makes you look simply different or you can look like a total moron.

I also believe that the following movies will move away from being shadows of their predecessors and innovate new plots to Star Wars. Can't wait till Episode 8 is going to come out, and I am surely going to watch this movie several more times in theatres.
 

(I'd also like to point out that I still believe the Darth Jar Jar theory applies, and that Snoke is merely the latest bodily posession of Plageuis/Jar Jar.... BTW, during my screening, I had someone to the right of me blatantly talking half the movie and filming it with his flash on while talking on his phone. I was about to kick his ass when someone already got the manager and booted his pathetic ass out of the theatre. People who ruin movies like that should go drown themselves, I have no tolerance for that crap.)

THEY ALL DIE LUKE DIES KYLO DIES REY DIES FINN DIES THE FORCE DIES EVERYBODY DIES.....

Honestly, I don't know what to think, I'm going to have to see it again before I make my final judgement

No, Bioware confirmed they are not making a Kotor 3, but they do have a similar, rpg like SW game in the works from my understanding

you mean a gears of war clone with RPG elements, yes? Because that's now their specialty thanks to EA

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

Seriously, as long as EA develops any Star Wars games, I can guarantee they will disappoint. I do not want EA to tarnish the sheer potential awesomeness of this game, please. I hope Disney instead gets someone else to develop 1313 other than EA's puppets (Visceral, Bioware, and Dice), just keep it away from EA's greedy DLC loving hands

shouldn't this be in "other games?"

I'd like this theory to be true, I really would. But my gut instinct just tells me that the fan reaction won't be mainly positive as this one thread on Reddit would lead us to believe. This move is way to risky, even for JJ Abrams. The Tweets from Jar Jar's actor are either a fantastic troll or amazing foreshadowing.

 

Eitherway, it'll be raining salt if it's true.

The greater the risk, the greater reward. The move to put Darth Vader as Luke's father was risky as hell and that turned out awesome. The Reddit is actually quite accurate... a lot of people have read it, I know PLENTY of people in my actual life who have read it, believe it, and want it to happen. And let me tell you, the hate for Jar Jar isn't nearly as huge as you believe it to be, it's just the vocal group that makes it seem like Jar Jar is terrible

I was kidding here Lol, however, I will say that jar jar binks and all these bullcrap conspiracy theories are ridiculous, i thought jar jar was just a generic character, I didn't hate him i didn't like him, he is just generic.

There is absolutely no way that he is going to be in any future movies, it wouldn't make any sense, and he is so darn foolish he'd be dead as soon as someone left his side.

 

Point being, he is dead, good riddance.

 

And if he isn't dead, they sure as mustafar aren't gonna cast him for this movie (kidding, If this was confusing and out of context, he was a crap character and he isn't going to be in any of the movies).

 

RIP Jar Jar Binks

Much closed-mindedness I sense in you. If you actually watched the video, read the reddit, and went back to watch the movies all over again you'd find all of the evidence is spot on... If he's not something more than it is, then what do you attribute these facts to be... coincidence? Luck? As obi-wan said, there's no such thing as luck, but Jar Jar seems to be incredibly lucky... And before you say "it's just coincidence, bad bull  blah blah blah..." explain why Jar Jar mimicks in multiple sequences what other characters are saying as they are saying, or how he perfectly performs several movements of the Zui-Quan form?. He's a fully CGI character, everything his character does is deliberate, nothing is accidental. Please do your homework before posting

Second of all, he's not dead, what kind of bullcrap did you pull that from? And no, they're not casting Ahmad Best in the movie, that does not mean Jar Jar isn't in it, for all we know he switched to his more sinister voice, ALA Andy Serkis.

"I also would like to point out that some people believe the holiday special is better than the prequels... which leads me to believe those guys are either sniffing glue or would have been upset at any little difference between the OT and the prequels. (Though I will admit my friend and I watched it and we laughed harder than we ever have in our lives)"

 

I still can't sit through an entire viewing of that movie.

As long as you don't take it seriously, it's the funniest crap ever made... the whole grandpa wookie porn sequence made me cry from laughter

"most SW fans"? I highly doubt that. Most Star Wars fans don't even know about any of these Jar Jar theories and just believe that he's a dumbass. Once again, I'll say that I'd actually like if Jar Jar's role in Star Wars was expanded, but it's too risky of an idea. I also think it's interesting how you think ep1 is the best of the prequels. How do you think ROTS fares in comparison to Phantom Menance?

https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w

Read the comments on this mate, that will tell you the fan reaction of Jar Jar being a sith lord. So far, the post is in the top 5 reddit posts of all time, I think that says something.

Of course people would probably get salty about it, but I don't think Jar Jar would actually physically be snoke, we might still see his face in flashbacks as the reveal is shown. Like I said, Jar Jar = Darth Plageuis = Snoke

One of the goals of the movies is to redeem the prequels in the eyes of the fans, I think this would be a damn good way of doing that. Now, granted, a lot of Star Wars fans are quite close minded about this, sadly, but I bet you they might change your minds if this twist is executed right.

Haveyap is right on the money. TPM, while not a great movie, is not nearly as awful as fans claim. Jar Jar never annoyed me that much, the only bad parts were Jake Lloyd and some tedious, unnecessarily long sequences combined with a few snore-worthy acted interplay scenes. AOTC is the worst Star Wars movie made... the plot doesn't even get going until half way through, and by then the audience has already checked out. Revenge of the Sith is really close to being a good movie, but there are a few scenes with some god awful dialogue that just ruin the believably of what else is fantastic.

I also would like to point out that some people believe the holiday special is better than the prequels... which leads me to believe those guys are either sniffing glue or would have been upset at any little difference between the OT and the prequels. (Though I will admit my friend and I watched it and we laughed harder than we ever have in our lives)

IDT Maul can be Snoke as he is a lizard like figure, he could be a distorted Jar Jar though

Well JJ Abrams is known for throwing red herrings out there to confuse the audience before it is released (I.E. ST Into Darkness) so you never know

Now I feel bad, because if this theory is true, than Ill no longer be apart of an elite group of Jar Jar fans

TBQH if it isn't true i'll be slightly disappointed simply because of the potential of this twist...

The only other plausible identity for Snoke IMO would be Darth Maul (Assuming Jar Jar is Plageuis

Kyle Katarn was fantastic character... with a not so fantastic apprentice... (P.S. someone should remake Jedi Knight Jedi academy and revamp the story, because the dark side ending of JKA is the stuff )

Anyway, if this is what I think it is, we got another confirmation, or perhaps not necessarily a confirmation but an affirmation of support of the theory by Mark Hamil

oh boy, Mark Hamil had better not be trolling: https://twitter.com/hamillhimself/status/672921577533677570