Doctor Evil

Gotta say I'm excited for this, and I especially like how anakin's design changed from TCW to this show. And just how menacing did Matt Lanter sound there, my god that gave me chills

AAAAND from this trailer it looks like Ezra's fate is teased... he's gonna go to the dark side. Calling it right now

And how about that TFA connection with the crossguard green saber? And who was the hooded sith? Not palpatine, could it be an earlier snoke/Plageuis?

Any thoughts about upcoming?

Oh, and by the way, is there any way I can stream previous season 2 episodes? BEcause I am really behind on it :V

I'm currently judging it as a standalone film; as the first of the new trilogy, I feel it needs to establish itself on its own merits.

 

'History repeats' would be a good theme, but it should be possible to have more deviation imo.

Perhaps, but it's also hard to judge LOTR as a standalone since they all are parts of a great saga, and I think that's how Disney is shaping the new trilogy.

As for deviation, I think it is more or less in how the story was told and with what characters, for example, how Ironic was it that Han Solo of all people was the one who told rey and finn about the force? I think, though, the deviation was pretty muc hthere

Originality is something a lot of movies lack, especially star wars. As long as the story is told well, and done right, it will fly for me. That's my take on it, but I can respect your wish for a bit more deviation.

I agree, he did not plaigurise, nor did he admit to it. I do however feel that his film clings too much to the known path. It feels more like an adaption than a sequel and I feel it needed to establish its own identity. It was kinda good, but I'll probably have forgotten most of it in ten years since there wasn't a great deal of uniqueness.

Thanks for that man, and I'll read all of your previous post eventually, but I just got off work so LOL

TBQH, I think this is what they are playing off though: Events repeating, the ring theory, etc, and maybe it's why Luke ended up just walking away, because he knew that these events would keep happening? Maybe that would be the plot... That would be brilliant

There's just too much we don't know for us to be making assumptions about the entire movie and trilogy at this point as it deliberately leaves so much vague

I am surprised that your STRAWMAN TROLLING has been permitted here. This forum enforces so many archaic rules but they let your continued arguing with EVERY other member continue?

 

I have not even bothered to read any of your posts and I bet most other people here have skipped over your endless insults as well. It is painfully obvious you want to be right. So I declare you the winner. You are the winner.

 

Congratulations you have done well for yourself.

Lol, guess I'm a troll for having a response. So I'm not allowed to respond to something I feel has flaws, in a thread that's about discussing the movie? Ok.

If you're going to make a point, expect someone to respond. Debate 101, and if you're going to act like an idiot then expect to be ridiculed somewhat. Don't get mad when we can actually point stuff wrong.

hes upset because JJ admitted TFA was ANH rip off after he'd spent weeks arguing it wasn't... the proofs in the pudding.

The proof is in the pudding that He said there was SOME re-usages, that doesn't mean it was an ANH rip off. If your logic goes by that then TPM is a ripoff of ANH, and ANH is total garbage for ripping off Joseph Cambell

EDIT: Snap, looks like I copied off leonard there

your article still says he intentionally copied ANH lol... You cant argue the facts

I can argue the facts when they are hilariously wrong and ridiculously construed... He said he can see why you'd think that, but actually the several HOMAGES were intentional. I don't think that counts as a blanket copy paste.

You're saying how I'm mad, and yet you're the one sounding upset because I can stand by my opinion and back it up with facts while you keep saying stuff without giving sufficient evidence to back it up. Have a Nice Day

Please let me know when you can actually debate and use reading skills

Thank you. Specificly there are more sophisticated science fiction movies that are worth MY time. And my time has nothing to do with anybody else. Besides the classics, I thought Ex Machina was amazing.

Then go watch those movies because Star Wars has never been a "sophisticated" sci-fi movie, it's basically like LOTR: An epic retelling of the hero's journey with slightly different events, results, and whole new characters.  If you want sophisitication, go watch Interstellar, 2001, or the Martian, Alien, etc.

 

SW TFA is very comparable to Mad Max Fury Road in that they were both basically remakes of previous titles. Fury Road was a superior movie imo and I am please to note that since my post here I have learned that I am far from alone. In almost every SW forum there is a significant number of people who disliked where the story has gone.

So in your words then, you're fine with MMFR for being a "remake" but not Star Wars? The double standard is strong with this one.

 

As a movie sw tfa was a good action flick at best. There is no question it was exciting. Story wise it is pathetic. The fact that the new Darth Vader is Han and Leia's son just is too stupid to bear.  You would never find an American Vietnam veteran's son joining the communists in North Vietnam 25 years later and attacking the USA or children of holocaust survivors becoming nazis and killing jews. It doesn't make a difference how much they dislike their fathers this would just never happen. It is beyond reason! The story just falls apart right there. 

You seemed to be in awe of EU, but then EU made the new darth vader as Han and Leia's son (Jacen Solo). Forgot about that did you? As for Kylo, Maybe you're not taking into account the massive amount of pressure he probably was under, being the grand son of Darth Vader, son of the famous Han Solo and Leia Organa, and nephew to Luke Skywalker, and having to live up to their legacy?

Just because he's their son doesn't make him the personality of Han and Leia, let alone the two most likely had marital problems because Han isn't the 9-5 kind of father, rather he probably wasn't home much.

that logic by the way then should be applied to Anakin and how he never should have become evil because he fought for good and was a good soul as a young slave

 flame bait moved to woft file, no wonder the troll liked this comment ^^

It's not flame bait, it's a genuine question when you basically categorized all of us who like TFA to have a "lower standard of entertainment". I don't know VP very well, but he doesn't seem to be the kind of person who flame baits. If he was, he would have been far more active in this thread.

I like how you think I'm a troll simply because I am capable of forming a counter-argument and being able to maintain it, but believe what you want then. Not my fault that you don't bother to check the other side of the coin

or maybe you are backtracking lol because even the director admits his film was ANH rip off... Read the whole article on screen, its their to view

Lol I'm backtracking? I watched the video on screen maybe you should read the articles I put up. Thanks for proving me right on that you don't actually read.

This is what he says, rather than "Admitting that he ripped off ANH" as you say he did

“I can understand that someone might say, ‘Oh, it’s a complete rip-off!’ ” he says, adding, “What was important for me was introducing brand new characters using relationships that were embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new — to go backwards to go forwards.”

He's conceding the opposite point of view, giving the other side "I can see what you mean, but this is what it really is", not outright saying "oh you're totally right I ripped off ANH".

 

“The story of history repeating itself was - I believe - an obvious and intentional thing, and the structure of meeting a character who comes from a nowhere desert and discovers that she has a power within her, where the bad guys have a weapon that is destructive but that ends up being destroyed - those simple tenets are by far the least important aspects of this movie, and they provide bones that were well-proven long before they were used in Star Wars.”

This is something I believe the movies are playing on, and might make a part as to why Luke left, because history keeps repeating itself, ALA the Ring Theory, but let's immediately hate on the movie because it has similarities to A New Hope.

Don't see him saying in ANY of these quotes that he ripped off A new hope, seems to me you didn't even read that article on the screen as you claim you did.

Also, read that 40 plot points article i posted

did not read the article in which he was interviewed lol... He said it himself, its in the fine print. It doesnt matter about that dudes opinion because JJ says so himself

And this is why I laugh at you dissenters, because you don't read any evidence from the other side rather than the stuff you bring up and think you're correct, completely ignoring everything else. Have you even thought about that maybe the guy misquoted JJ abrams and only used a part of it? It's quite easy to do that in a youtube video. Look at both sides of the coin before jumping to a conclusion.

Using an article might be better considering that youtube vid is extremely biased, keep trying on that whole "it totally ripped of ANH whine whine whine!", because he doesn't have to justify himself to anyone.

http://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-responds-to-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-comparisons/

this one works too --> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jj-abrams-criticism-star-wars-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-rip-off-a6804546.html

Where has it ever been said that lightsaber blades do have some significant weight? It's a beam of energy for crying out loud. Since when have lightbulbs became significantly heavier when they're switched on?

 

Not saying that a non-Force-user wouldn't be able to use a lightsaber, but you can't use training with a weapon that requires completely different muscle control for that. Logically, melee training would qualify you to the principles of (at least the basic) movements you need to do, but not to the fact how you need to control your body while doing it, if the balance of your weapon is not what you're used to.

Did I say it was significant? You're forgetting the hilt is made of some kind of metal, which definitely does carry some sort of weight including the crystal inside. Maybe not as heavy as a general sword, but I don't see how it would be that disoreinting, and notice that Finn wasn't exactly good with the lightsaber anyway. His melee training prevented him from being completely inept, but he was defeated easily nonetheless

Ugh didn't want to quote myself here

Then read my post, because I think that answers it suitingly for the context of the movie.

Nice job not being able to respond to my other points, I'm still waiting for someone to do that

The hilt has weight of course but the blade doesn't have a weight you can perceive normally as it is a compressed beam. Of course it has an atomic weight but that would hardly matter. First of Luke has the force inside him and second moving this blade slightly to make a blaster parry is not the same thing as wielding the lightsaber in combat trying to kill people. And that a Jedi was only able to use the weapon was established lore. When West End Games created the first Star Wars RPG this was pretty clearly stated about lightsabers and guess who they consulted when they created it. To my knowledge only in the EU was this rule ever broken by Boba Fett because of his sheer badass factor. I do not watch the Clone Wars series because the musical score is horrible unStar Wars, the 3d animation style looks terrible and it contains Ahsoka another concept that I despise. For me what happened in the Clone Wars was published by Dark Horse comics.

Except that EU is no longer canon and that lore is as well, as 2013, all previous material other than the movies and the clone wars series was no longer canon. That "fact" is extremely obscure and didn't even apply to the movies. Regardless of you opinion of Clone Wars, it's canon and thus it shows standard people can use lightsabers. Pretend it's not canon all you like, but it is according to George Lucas Canon and Disney canon, and that West End games RPG probably said the same thing as for the reason kotor did: for a game design so the non jedi classes can't use lightsabers to create game balance

Oh, and let me point out that "lore" was ignored by George Lucas himself when he allowed Pre Vizla and General Grievous to be able to use lightsabers.

 

Rey doesn't learn anything, she excels at everything she touches immediately. Luke had to learn, Anakin had to learn and she doesn't.

And you know this how? your vast and infinite knowledge of this movie? She had to learn that the gun she was holding had a safety on, and like I said if you actually can read, we don't even know her past so how can you say she didn't know how to do some of that through actual training.

wrong, The rebellion didnt win, The empire were reorganized after the new republic won key battles than they both signed a treaty because of the never ending conflict. Also, Why do you bash every opinion that doesnt agree with you? It seems rather ridiculious that you still defend some of the issues this movie obviously has

Source--> http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order

Wookiepedia

"Following another year of bloody conflict, the fractured Empire would make its last stand over the sandy wastes of Jakku against the New Republic, resulting in high casualties on both sides. Defeated and facing severe internal unrest, the Empire would be forced to sign the Galactic Concordance, severely limiting its ability to wage war and ushering in its transformation into a mere rump state.^[3]

"

 

Looks like the rebel scum won to me. :/

I defend issues the movie obviously doesn't have, and I have the right to state my counter-points. If the Rebellion didn't win, then why were they the dominant government in the galaxy and the Empire wasn't even present? If the Empire was truly "re-organized" then that in itself is a victory for the Rebellion because it overtook the Empire as the DOMINANT FORCE IN THE GALAXY, second to the fact that the Empire signed the treaty in order to survive. Do you not understand politics?

I'm curious why you only address this point rather than my others, given that you think they are "obvious issues". Not only that, but I don't think you've ever addressed all of my points in a post, let alone read half of what I've written.

As for that, I'm thinking you're taking issue with the fact that I CAN provide counterpoints and explanations to these "issues", let alone that you seem to take issue yourself with those that like the movie for what it is.

I'm still waiting on the responses to that 40 points debunked article i posted AND the cinemasins SW video

Huh, okay, guess that's not actually canon. I think I read it in the KOTOR manual, and it certainly makes sense...

Again, non canon and used as an excuse so the non-jedi classes were restricted from using them

 

Also note that Luke was being trained by a Jedi Master at that point.

Because that makes all the difference in the span of 5 minutes of training all together. Obi-Wan literally sat back and just said "use the force" without telling him how to actually use the lightsaber.

Yes, but the sword blade weighs something -- probably quite a bit -- and the lasers weigh nothing. I do believe that this would make it quite disorienting for an experienced melee user.

Where has it ever been said that a lightsaber is weightless? Please, tell me, because then Luke would not have been able to deflect those blaster bolts so easily on the Falcon in ANH since he had ZERO training prior by that logic that it requires training.

I do think that Rey's Force abilities seem to manifest themselves a bit too quickly. As for the lightsabers, I don't think that Force Sensitivity is necessary to use them, but realistically some training would be necessary due to the weightlessness of the beam (which would particularly throw off experienced melee users such as Finn).

But Finn has had training with melee, it's shown that every stormtrooper learns to use that one baton, and as for the "weightlessness" regardless of that, the principle is the same as a sword... with lasers. how many times do I need to say this?

 

I agree with the point about it being sort of weird that Han doesn't ever use Chewie's bowcaster until now.

Because it's not his gun nor his style, it's like how you use your same car for 10 years while the wife uses hers, then you swap one day and are like "wow!"

Where do I even begin? I guess with the known and beloved characters. Nothing Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Lando, Admiral Ackbar, Mon Mothma, Wedge Antilles etc. did matters. 30 years have passed and we have basically the same situation again. I do not care if you call this a gross oversimplification, if the situation lends itself to make A New Hope BIGGER, LOUDER, FASTER Edition with sprinkles of Empire and Return it is the same thing. At least in the EU after the Emperor's death there was a real hope that things would get better which made sense but noooooo we need to keep the status quo here.

 It wasnt status quo. The Rebellion Won, and established a new government to replace the Empire known as the Republic, however a terrorist organization known as The First Order devoted to the ideals of the Empire wanted to reverse that. It's like how ISIS cropped up about 10 years after Al Queda's deal. And yes it is a gross oversimplification. The similarities to the other movies were intentionally done by Abrams rather than by accident, and second of all the movie has some big differences

This movie turns all returning characters into fuckups. Luke tried to get the Jedi going again, failed and than went sulkely into exile. That is just not his personality at all and therefore is a betrayal.

How would you feel if you had a great project that was yours, one that you worked so hard on, to only have it blow up in your face and then screw everything over? Luke only had a week's worth of training total, so he's not exactly some sort of all-knowing Jedi Master. If the Jedi of old made mistakes and were trained for years, expect Luke to create some big screw ups. Also, this is 30 years later in the saga, people change.

Leia for some stupid reason isn't part of the government where she belongs but the general of this new Resistance of the First Order. For crying out loud why didn't she develop here latent force abilities? She would have been the logic choice as Luke's first student just as it happened in the EU, but because it was in the EU we can't have that now can we

If you read EU as well as you thought, Leia didn't become a student until she was older than she is in this movie... simply because she didn't want to do it. Just because you can become a jedi doesn't mean you'd want to, even though I would. Second of all, the Resistance is an offshoot on the New Republic

Han Solo is either nearly 70 years old or he is 70 years old and he is still smuggling stuff and is indebted to aholes across the galaxy WTF? Another character that should have progressed in the story to be something different. I mean he is the hero and respected general who led the planetary assault to take down the 2nd Death Stars shield. This character would have realised his smuggling days are DONE. He doesn't need to do it ANYMORE. He has a greater and better calling than this but no we need to tickle that nostalgia bone. There can be no logical char progression if we want to create ANH 2.0. This is a personal pet peeve of mine. Han Solo taking Chewie's bowcaster using it and than gushing all over this thing is stupid beyond believe in two ways. The first is that a wookie bowcaster needs a wookies strength to be operated but Abrams wouldn't be Abrams if that mattered to him. The second is that Han has been around Chewies bowcaster for about 50 years or more. He has seen that thing countless times in action. Why would he ever be surprised about its capabilities? Han takes the mentor role of our female protagonist and of course just as the mentor in ANH he has to die. Harrison Ford most likely only agree to return to kill Han off as well. There was zero emotional impact when it finally happened. You saw it coming from the getgo and because of that it has no weight.

You should read that response to the 40 plot holes. Han Solo lost his son to becoming a mass murder, that's as bad as if he died. When parents lose a son like that, it affects then deeply and psychologically scars them. Generally when that happens to people, they tend to go back to something comfortable and familiar, in this case for Han it was smuggling simply because it helps him forget the hurt. Psychology 101. Second of all, wtf kind of logic is that about the bowcaster? It's a weapon that's the size of an m4 carbine, and doesn't exactly appear to be that heavy. And if we're pulling "Well according to EU," please remember that Kyle Katarn had no trouble wielding bowcasters throughout the Jedi Knight series, or Delta Squad for that matter in Republic Commando.

We knew Han was going to die. Why? Because Harrison wanted him to die way back in ROTJ and there was no way he'd do it again without killing him off. I don't understand how it holds no emotional impact when he basically evolves to the point from being a douchebag to a caring father who's willing to give up his life for a chance to save his son.

Where the hell is Lando Calrissian?

Because the movie needs to include every single character of the OT... For that matter, where was he in the prequels? Where's palpatine in the new movies? Where's Boba Fett in the new movies, WHERES JABBA's CORPSE

Finn is a weird mix for me between an Eddy Murphy character, a coward, and somehow still able to kick some butt and it doesn't work at all. His two fights with Anakin's lightsaber are laughable and ludicrous. Somebody without a connection to the force is more likely to cut off his own limps than somebody elses. Because of its weird properties like the blade having no noticeable weight a Jedi needs to use the force to wield a lightsaber effectively. That is also why during lightsaber fights not many force abilities are ever used, because the Jedi is already occupied with wielding his lightsaber. That's why I despise these two scenes with all my heart. A prime example of Abrams pissing all over established lore again which he mastered to a degree seldom witnessed.

 

Poe had a good beginning which was than subsequently destroyed by his deus ex machine reappearance. Oh I got lost in the desert and than I was picked up. Really? His pilot abilities are so great that the dog fight scenes with the TIE-fighters turn into a parody. One maneuver, three destroyed TIEs BOOM BOOM BOOM. In this new Star Wars Wedges abilities are just not good enough, Wedge you suck to much for ANH BIGGER LOUDER FASTER! His buddy buddy thing with Finn has no time to develop and literally comes out of nowhere.

Once again... where is it mentioned, if ever, that non-force wielders can't use a lightsaber? Han cut open a tauntaun with a lightsaber, guess he should have died instantly. How about Pre Vizla from the Clone Wars series who has no force abilities what so ever yet is seen nearly beating Obi-Wan? Your established lore doesn't even exist, and also to expand: Lightsabers aren't generally used by non-force users simply because they can't predict blaster bolts coming in, and it is about as useful as a sword in an age of guns to non force users.

Tends to happen when he gets launched in a different direction from Finn, it's not that hard. He's actually a good pilot that can show his skill finally with the movie technology we have With Luke, his skill wasn't exactly as pronounced simply due to the constrained filming tech of the time. He's friends with finn because he rescued him and maybe people just are easy to get along with.

Also, wedge wasn't in the movie because the actor thought being in Star Wars again was beneath him

Kylo Ren *sigh* what a pathetic replacement as a main villian. When things don't go his way he hacks ship consoles a part with a lightsaber like some kindergarden child's temper tandrum. I also laughed when he removed his mask and the face of Adam Driver appeared. A lot of people critize his mask wearing just for being a Vader rip-off. I am actually fine with it, he desperately needs the mask to have any kind of intimidation factor. As soon as the mask came off he was no more than an unconvincing Dark Side user. As for his Vader worship, did nobody tell him the whole story of Anakin Skywalker. He says "I am going to finish what you began grandfather" but his grandfather redeemed himself for the love of a son and gave up on the Dark Side business. This guy isn't aware of that fact? Also gets beat by a non force user and one with zero or barely any training while himself being trained his whole life. Adam Driver convinced me in no scene without a helmet that he was a Dark side force user. He always looked confused and never managed to display aggression at any point in the movie. Haiden Christensen managed to do that quite convincingly. Even when he stabs his father Kylo still looks confused, in doubt and whiny even when he is saying that things are now clear for him. We are suppossed to be afraid of this guy?

I guess if the villain is a human person with a struggle between light and dark rather than a mysterious figure, he's automatically pathetic. How would you feel, considering that your grandfather was a huge sith lord and you had to live up to the legacy of your family members? As for the "finish what you started", yes we know Vader redeemed himself but maybe you're leaving out the possibility that this is more manipulation by Snoke. We're not supposed to fear him, we're supposed to sympathize and simultaneously get angry with because he betrays his father.

And now for the main event the female heroine of this whole deal. I have to preface this by saying i LIKE strong female characters, because somebody might accuse me of hating it just for that but that couldn't be further from the truth. When it was announced that the exile would be canonically a female I was very happy with that particular decision. Kreia is my favorite fictional mentor character of all time. My favorite playthrough is female exile with a female mentor so if you accuse me of misogyni you are wrong. But Rey must be the queen of Mary Sue characters. The mans name is JeffREY Jacob Abrams and if you still think that has nothing to do with her wondrous abilities i can't help you.

 

Rey gets everything handed to her without any or very little explanation. Never flown a spaceship in her life, but can pilot the Falcon in a dogfight in a way that makes Han Solo green with envy. Can repair the Falcon better than Han as well although he has known this ship for about 50 years. Is an expert in hand to hand combat and staff combat which somehow ludicrously translates to her also being able to fight competently with a lightsaber. As I already stated with Finn it wouldn't translate at all. Learns to shoot a blaster like an expert in 10 seconds flat. Can just selfteach herself force abilities of high order like the Jedi mindtrick while just recently being told that Jedi actually existed. Before thinking they were a myth. Rips a lightsaber straight out of a forcegrip of a way more experienced and trained force user. It isn't even a struggle for the saber it just flies straight into her hand with no effort whatsoever. Beats said force user (I know he is wounded, I still won't let it go) in a saber fight with either no or so little training that it would hardly help her.

Yes I am aware that people theorize that she received training prior to having been dropped of at Tatoo... excuse me Jakku. As I said it would be logically so little that it doesn't matter. Her memory clearly showed that she was youngling age when she was dropped of at Jakku without any guardian like a true Spartan. Do you remember Yoda's youngling class and what they did with a lightsaber? Waving the lightsaber around from left to right a bit with the training drone set to lowest level. THAT is the kind of training Rey would have logically received at that point which makes perfect sense. A child so young needs to still get the hang of the physical world and therefore understanding spiritual or metaphysical concepts of high order is very VERY unrealistic, but he wouldn't be Abrams if he cared about any of that.

 

Anakin was the chosen one and he also needed to be trained in the force. Before that he had the untrained abilities. Luke also needed to be trained. He as well possessed the untrained abilities. But no not this little snowflake. She is after all a veiled Disney princess and those excel at stuff for no apparent reason. Aside from the female lead she is also the male lead as well. When Finn grabbed her hand to run she refused to do it after all we need to drive the point home that little miss perfect is a strong female who needs not depend on silly males. But when she takes his hand it is fine. The characters went to her rescue but our little Mary Sue wouldn't be a Mary Sue if she didn't just free herself before anyone can help her. Strong independent female needs no help from anybody. Notice that the male leads which took her role previously pretty often required help or got their butts kicked badly. If you by now think I hate this new Disney princess you are completely right, but I am completely Dark Side when it comes to this whole movie.

Are you kidding me? She says she's a pilot in the freaking movie, she wouldn't say that if she had never piloted anything in her life. Second of all she spent half of her life on a desert junkyard with tons of electronic junk that she has to scavenge to make a living... If you want to survive, you tend to pick up a thing or two. She has a staff, and that's basically the same idea as a lightsaber because a lightsaber is just a sword made of lasers. As for a blaster, it's not that hard... All it takes is point and shoot ( plus the safety for that gun) and I'm sure she's fired a blaster before on Jakku.

Apparently the idea of learn fast or die can't apply to star wars, and second of all we know the force is a deity, one with a will. There are times where it guides individuals. She let her instincts take control, which allowed her to be so potent.

Second of all, let's discuss why Luke wasn't as good to start

"I don't believe it!" - Luke

"That is why you fail" - Yoda

It's that simple, but Rey probably did believe she can do it because she didn't have much choice. As kreia says: "Nothing is impossible with the Force"

Kylo Renn isn't even a full sith, Snoke said it himself that he needed to complete his training and he  wasn't as effective because he was injured by chewbacca's bowcaster when he was shot, a weapon that we see is immensely powerful... I think that would severly hamper his ability to fight as well as he can, but Finn get's his asskicked, and Rey succeeds because Finn managed to injure Renn a bit before being chopped down.

On the overall plot the search for Luke Skywalker is just a thin veil to tell ANH again with a bit of Empire and Return. How this movie blatantly copies that plot has already been discussed here so I don't need to repeat it myself. Why so many people are willing to give this movie a pass is utterly mind boggling to me. Never in the history of ever to my knowledge has a franchise ripped of its own story so shamelessly. The prequels also contain nods to the original, like Padme putting a blanket on Anakin the way Leia did to Luke. But in this movie it is like being hit with the steel pan of nostalgia all the time. Remember this? *BANG* You liked that a lot didn't you? *BANG* AND THIS *BANG* AND THIS *BANG* AND ALSO THIS!!!!!!!!!!11111

 

On Anakin's lightsaber (yes Anakin's, he built it and fought through a good bit of the Clone Wars with it. A lightsaber is a personal weapon after all.)

What is it even doing in this Cantina? For all we know it should have disintegrated while falling to the "surface" of Bespin. And furthermore why can every idiot that goes backstage just open that box and leave with that thing? That door wasn't even locked.

Wait, a New Hope was about finding the lost Jedi instead of Destroying the Death Star? Oh I should have known! We're giving it a pass because it's a good movie, it doesn't blatantly copy off the original. If we're going that route, then remember the "original" copied directly from Joseph Campell and the Hero's Journey, which i put the link to earlier in the thread

Have you ever heard of something called the force? It tends to affect things in the physical realm, with or without motivation. That locked door is easily explained by that. As for the light saber, that's something you can attribute to a plot element that will be explained in the next movie.

I don't blame Kasdan for this mess. I think he had no leeway whatsoever. They told him to write an ANH copy and he did. I do blame him for accepting the job. Orci and Kurtzman would have sufficed to write this dreg.

 

To sum it all up The Farce Awakens is a great action movie and a terrible entry in the Star Wars story, as Black Flag is a great pirate's game but a terrible Assassin's Creed and Into Darkness is another great action movie but an atrocious Star Trek movie. At least the Star Trek fanbase recognized it for what it is.

Actually Star Trek fans generally liked the new movie, it was Into Darkness that was shunned. Star Trek 09 was only smacked on by some of the hardcore original series fanboys.

So I just stumbled onto this, a quite good response to that huffington post article of "40 unforgiveable plot holes" (has profanity in it, if that offends you then don't click)--> http://epicstream.com/news/Star-Wars-Fan-Debunks-Huff-Posts-40-Unforgivable-Plot-Holes-in-The-Force-Awakens

But as for the movie's soundtrack, I definitely agree with Haveayap, it was still clearly a brilliant piece by John Williams. However IMO it just did not hold the same emotional impact or flare that the previous soundtracks did, especially ROTS and ESB. Although having said that giving credit where credit is due, I did think that whilst most of it was not particularly memorable, at the time (whilst watching) it did increase the tension and excitement, if albeit briefly. 

Oh absolutely, ROTS and ESB had star wars's finest pieces and are the best tracks yet, but despite that I still enjoyed the track for the movie. TBQH the only music track I didn't enjoy was AOTC. Other than Across the stars, most of the music was re-used from episode I and the ones they came up with were mostly bleh (I don't count the arena, because that actually wasn't used mostly until episode 3).

Like I said earlier, I think williams and Abrams tried a different perspective. Rather than setting the tone for the scene, I think they let the scenes speak for themselves with the music simply filling the gaps. It's a restrained form, and I think it worked fine. TBH I rank this track overall at 5th best, behind ROTJ but ahead of TPM.

(btw, you guys should seriously watch that cinemasins video, it points out some really glaring stuff that even I haven't noticed before even though it's for comedic purposes)

So how much is Disney paying you because you seem to refuse any issues that TFA has and usually say everyone else are making stupid arguments out of nothing...

I wish they were paying me, because I love doing this.

"Read the article, I will say that most of those points are accurate,... mostly. however, doesn't stop me from loving it still"

You  wonder why I get condescending and then you don't bother to read what I say. I haven't said everyone is making stupid arguments, only the ones who actually do.

Now, I have said no more superweapons would be nice... R2 waking up was super convenient, Rey's sudden ability with the force also being too convenient, and the over-the-top bit of Finn standing on rey's face...really...and that there was little to no explanation on why the Republic wasn't openly fighting the First Order. Now, does that make the movie bad for me? No, I still like it.

What I'm also saying is that the original movies also had a lot of huge flaws as pointed out by the video... does that mean they are automatically bad movies? the issue I'm pointing out is double standards and hypocrisy

 

Well I think you just refuse to admit that this movie was a flop s

Read the article, I will say that most of those points are accurate,... mostly. however, doesn't stop me from loving it still

For those of you ripping on TFA for having a lot of issues of convenience and stupidity, watch this: and without nostalgia goggles (oh, and btw, yes they usually are for comedy but these are quite accurate)

It was a complete copy of A New Hope! There was nothing original about it! Where was Luke Skywalker running around the galaxy with his team of Jedi Knights kicking Sith butt? Instead we find a divorced washed up Han Solo who somehow got his ship stolen while he's a freakin General in the resistance??? This movie should have been the final mission for this trio before giving it to the female Jedi and the Wookie.

Guess defecting stormtroopers turning good, a reasonably humanized villain, and a plot that revolves around finding a missing person counts as un original for star wars.

Since when has star wars been original? --> http://www.moongadget.com/origins/myth.html this shows how much star wars practically copied mythology.

 

Han dies just like Ben??? I couldn't believe they were going to do that as she watches??? TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I hate to say it but I miss George. He had his faults but he also had a PASSION for Star Wars. This film lacks SOUL. It is the worst film in the series and now the Star Wars universe will be forever divided by Lucus Star Wars and Disney Star Wars. I AM A PRE-DISNEY STAR WARS FAN!

This... makes no sense, why wouldn't that happen? It's motivation for Rey to be pissed at Kylo... I respect your opinion but hot damn... If you think this movie is worse than attack of the clones, then there's not much to be said there

 

The best parts of the movie were completely dropped. Who was the old man at the beginning? Why didn't the storm trooper commander take her helmet off?  Darth Spanky was the worst. I just want to slap him! What a baby! He wasn't scary at all. He was a brat having a temper tantrum. All that was missing was him jumping up and down stamping the ground in a fit. Why was he wearing that stupid helmet? What reason? He's a Vadar wannabe?

So was anakin, but we don't even know why he fell, second of all the old man in the beginning is probably someone who will be clarified later (anyone think he looks like Kanan from rebels?)

I'm sorry, but the rest of that post I'm just gonna leave there because it's just too mind-numbing to read, and I'd probably be a bit too hostile for your liking... Chill out and maybe watch the movie with a clear head, because that stuff sounds practically made my head hurt with how little sense it made.

And I've already said how the movie isn't a copy of a new hope.

I particularly regretted going out of my way to make it extra clear in which sense I used the words "important to the plot" - in order to clarify what one of my issues with the movie is - because you then scratched off two lines in which you brought up two ways in which Han was "important" that had nothing to do with what I had just been explaining. It's discouraging.

 

And when you combine that with condescending or otherwise unnecessary crap like "Try again", "Maybe you should pay attention more to the movie", "But sure, let's make everything stroke your ego,", then I'm sorry but you don't come across as worth the effort. You can go on complaining that nobody talks fairly with you, even though you supposedly addressed every point made by me and HH and whoever, but until your posts start looking like you're actually willing to make the effort to understand what the other guy is saying, I expect this'll keep happening to you.

I was condescending when you yourself decided to play that game, don't expect me not to level the playing field, but w/e. I responded to most of them, to which it seems you had issues with it and then proceeded to get all personal, but ok. Those "statements" regarding pay attention actually applies because it seems to me you're gut reacting and then not focusing on what else the movie is doing, because the movie moves fairly fast.

Don't get upset when I can play the same game you can.

Quite - but even that isn't quite what I meant. If people are discussing specific issues in the movie, and someone brings up "well it was successful, people like it" as a response to that, then they don't realize they aren't even speaking on topic. It's  discussion at the level of monkey-politics: everything nice you can shout about the movie is a point against the guys on the other treetop who are the enemy team, criticising it.

I actually brought it up simply as a fact, not as a response. I said that it surpassed Avatar as #1 scoring film, to which HH replied and I did as well, and I also pointed out it's as a result of people going to see it multiple times

Well, hey, tis all good. Take your time on it, besides I gotta re-do all my mods on TSL again anyway

Well, the problem with it still needs to be solved with the TSL patcher, it's complicated AF to get this baby working, and now i'm getting broken games because of the nar shadaa thing not triggering now

From what I've observed, both sides tend to accuse the other of not addressing their points. I don't have the patience to go back and read these arguments again, but I'd guess that there's probably some wrong on both sides.

 

In my case, most of the points addressed at first were obviously subjective in nature, and I acknowledged them as such. I addresses the others back and was left alone after that (although that may be because I was ignored; I don't know and don't want to cast blame).

 

Just try to be respectful and listen to the other side, okay?

Well, the ones you responded to were subjective, but since you seemed to enjoy the movie, I didn't think it was that big of a deal, If you want I'm down to go back to that. However, there wasn't much to say. The only ones of mine you went on were the kylo ren ones, which again were subjective so there wasn't much point since there wasn't much else to be said.

I can truthfully and confidently say that I have tried to the best of my ability to address the criticisms of the movie that people bring up, and at times I do concede parts which are a bit dumb or not well thought out, but looking back through the thread I say I've pretty much responded to most people when I started in this thread, but then again I'm biased there because... hey, it's me

My problem is that I want to have an intelligent debate, and then what I ended up getting back from certain people was just whining and insults with no substance, and then taking my quotes out of context and completely ignoring others when people responded. To me that was just... ugh.