Doctor Evil

You can try to present logical, sustained and compelling arguments arguing sensibly at the flaws in his beloved 'TFA' and he will still find a way to ignore them and personally insult you while he does so. Just look at HH and my *numerous* posts a few pages back. And while we're on it who really thinks that the Box Office is any way to grade a movie?! I mean does anyone really believe that a movie like Avatar is little more than a glorified Dancing with Wolves in space?

Oh it's you again. Your "logical and compelling arguments" were nothing but whine fests that were filled with "boo hoo my EU got cut from canon, my comic books aren't canon!" and pretty much getting upset when I pointed out flaws in YOUR arguments then shutting down completely. I'm starting to believe that some of you just have problems reading in general, I never said this movie was without flaws as I have pointed it out from time to time, but the flaws you're pointing out mostly aren't even really present. You say I ignore your posts and yet you ignore mine on a consistent basis. Look back and pretty much I address each and every one of your points quite well, at least until you decided to do your whole "oh i'm clever so I'll edit my post over and over to respond to what Doctor Evil is saying when he makes a new post!" So before saying how "Dr Evil ignores me and my points and insults me!" Try thinking about that and how that actually applies to you, because I have read every single one of your posts and responded to them adequately; and when I do, usually I get "oh you're an idiot, I'm not gonna bother responding!" Meaning you can't even summize a response, and are upset because I actually do my homework. If you can't do basic reading and back your own points up with evidence (which you haven't done well at all) then you deserve to be ridiculed. This is a debate, after all, don't get upset when I point out flaws in your own argument and can actually engage in a long, well thought debate. Oh, and I do hope maybe you'll take what I said into consideration this time. If you actually read what I say and respond in kind by addressing my points, I will treat you with respect because I have done that with every one of your posts.

The hypocrisy is real.

And so far you dissenters haven't really given me a decent argument of why this movie isn't good, one of the reasons being that whenever I respond to your posts, I rarely get a full response in kind. All I'm getting is conjexture, baseless anger, and "flaws" that are either present in all of Star Wars (the convenient stuff) or "It's a rehash so it must be bad" when it's actually not a rehash if you pay attention, and the whole rehash argument can be applied to nearly every Star Wars movie. Also, Box office isn't the only way to judge a movie, but it is a factor. If a movie was garbage, it wouldn't be getting nearly the amount of money it needs. Compare TPM with TFA's box office. TPM and TFA have a huge divergence in how much money they earned, simply because TPM wasn't a good film and people said it wasn't, thus fewer people watched it as a result. With TFA, people have said it was a good film and thus people keep going to see it, and then go see it again because they like it so much. It's basic logic, you should try it sometime bub

Now, as much as I'd love to discuss me, how about now we move back onto the subject at hand, which is actually discussing the movie.

 

Now that that's set aside, I really feel that the future for the new trilogy lies in really getting to flesh out everyone's characters in no. 8, just like they did in ESB. If we take the starting point as Rey then I think they should try to delve deeper into her prodigious abilities and develop the resulting challenges that presents her, both physically and emotionally. Hopefully they will avoid an explanation analogous to the 'Chosen One' cop-out and I must admit, I do think the idea that she might have once been Luke's apprentice is appropriate if done properly.

I think it's all but clear she's had some training at the time, but my hope is she doesn't know luke at all.

(sorry if my sentences run a bit, it's early over here, I'll probably go back and format them so they might be a bit easier)

I really like how Dr Evil appears to think that by mentioning that the movie is successful and lots of people saw it he's scoring some kind of a point.

I really like how you and HH have failed to prove me wrong on any of my points and just end up not addressing them yet think you're extremely intelligent at the same time for disliking the movie, and it is scoring a point in my meaning that people think the movie is good. That's an opinion I share, glad you have an issue with that kiddo.

well most people I have spoken too seem to think the movie isn't half as good after their second viewing... I've seen it three times in cinemas (I also watched TPM 3 times in cinemas and most people actually loved TPM at first (they were a little confused but were fine with it). It wasn't until AOTC was released when the PT backlash really started

No, the backlash for TPM was pretty immediate. I remember people clapping as the opening credits rolled and then booing at the end, and critics were extremely harsh on it. Never heard one person booing at the end of TFA, it was either mostly claps or silence if it was a casual crowd

AS for the people, on my end most people loved it even more on their second viewing, so we can go either way, but as I said the box office stats speak for itself

 

Also, I still do not believe Rey will be Obi-wans daughter or grand daughter. Like I said, it will damage the established character that we have already. Rey was most likely a student of Lukes that managed to survive (and after several viewings of the movie and reading the novel, I feel as though Snoke may try and turn her to the dark side later on in the series because I still feel as though Kylo is trying to hard to be 'evil', whereas Rey already has alot of hate and anger built up inside)

How would it damage the character at all? This again sounds like "we must worship the OT it is all that is holy blah blah blah" It's perfectly concievable that he had relations with satine when he was a horny young boy because he was a horny young boy second of all they loved each other and when that happens, its more than just chillig.

Because not the entire galaxy exists of Force wielders capable of massive powers.

 

Any other easy questions I can answer in 5 seconds?

Maybe my other points of Leia being in love but not falling, how love redeemed anakin, and love kept Luke kept himself from killing Vader. You still have yet to answer me on those, let alone the dozens of other counter-points I've put across you during this thread that you have failed to address, or even Jolee's point of love. There are countless others. Love is a central part of Star Wars, and it's a central part of the light side.

OH YEAH, let's pull one from EU which is non-canon: Luke and Mara Jade. Weren't those two in love? They must have fallen to the dark side, then...not!

You're trying to sound snarky and smart when you're making claims without backing them up, then completely ignoring the evidence I bring up to disprove you (this has to be the 5th time, right?). Kind of makes you look dumb. If you're wondering why I'm a bit annoyed with you, that's the reason right there.

Well, there was that time aboard her ship involving her, him, another man, and a blaster. As i recall, Obi-wan's words were, "If you had asked me... I would have left the Jedi Order."

Exactly my point. The Clone Wars series showed that the two were extremely close in their younger years, and given that fact, it's extremely likely they did more than just cuddle, and they weren't much older than teenagers during that time (they might actually have been teenagers, I don't know their exact age, but it was before Obi-Wan met Anakin).

It sure worked out VERY WELL for Han and their son...

 

Oh, wait.

 

Are you intentionally trying to sabotage your point?

Oh dear, if only you could actually read my points and address them correctly, but then you haven't done that very well throughout this thread, let alone come up with decent theories. You're really not that good at this, aren't you?

If love in general lead to the dark side, then I guess the galaxy would be pretty devoid of life. Nice logic there bub. Take it from Jolee Bindo -->

"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you... not condemn you."

―Jolee Bindo, to Revan, when discussing love (

Ben Solo fell to the dark side not because he loved his father, if anything love nearly brought him back to the light, as it did when Vader saw his son nearly electrified to death. Love, if anything, is an artifact of the light side. Star Wars has plenty of evidence to this.

What we saw between Anakin and Padme was (attempted at least) passion, though they were actually in love, they let their passions take over them and in the end it controlled anakin's actions. Fear of losing padme is what drove him to the dark side, not love itself

Love lead Anakin to the Dark Side... yeah, LET'S MAKE BABIES.

That would be... very stupid.

No, fear of losing padme lead to the dark side. Very different thing. Guess Leia is on the dark side then since she loved Han.

Obi-Wan was quite different in his padawan days, and a bit unorthodox. I wouldn't put it out of his capabilities to be more than close with women, say Satine.

Or are just interested. I watched Indiana Jones IV in the cinema too, since I loved the first 3. It was horrible, probably one of the worst movies ever...

Cool story, but if it was bad then people wouldn't be going back to re-watch it. People knew TPM and KoCS was garbage after their first viewing, and if they aren't thinking TFA is bad now, then it's actually good. If it takes 3 viewing just to pique your interest, then you have problems.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but a lot of people genuinely like the movie because its a good movie

Just saw this and lol'd

TR-8R is apparently the best new character of the film, he's even a meme. Love it

So it just passed avatar is #1 grossing film in America of all time http://www.avclub.com/article/force-awakens-now-officially-no-1-movie-all-time-u-230344?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Default%3A1%3ADefault

Regardless of what you thought, a lot of people love it apparently, a lot of people I know are going to see it multiple times

Glad to see someone else (Markus) also beat his head on the stone wall.

Needlessly considering the "answers" he was seeking was pretty much in the movie, and in Star Wars itself.

But let's forgive the OT for making the a lot of the same "mistakes" that this movie has made simply because it's the OT

As I said before, I got it from the KOTOR manual, when it says about lightsabers, "Only Jedi have the skill to use these weapons. Any other users would be more likely to injure themselves than their opponents."

 

I think the difficulty might come from the fact that a lightsaber beam is weightless (at least according to the KOTOR manual), which would especially throw off those used to other melee weapons.

That's because it's a game design rather than an actual canon fact, it was that way so soldiers and non-jedi classes had an excuse as to why they couldn't use lightsabers.

*sigh* here we go again.

I like how instead of proving me wrong you're just being a total tool by throwing OOC insults at me. It's ok though because I can still prove you wrong through actually ADDRESSING YOUR POINTS ._.. And since you only responded to one point of mine without addressing any other (you did this in a previous post as well bud ) and went "oh im not gonna bother!" just shows how incompetent you are. Don't go questioning people's mental abilities when you take people's quotes out of context and then only respond to one point.

Oh, wow. At this point you don't just fail at reading comprehension, it's clear to me you're not trying to understand anything I'm saying, because if you put in that necessary cognitive work, you'd be unable to point out nonexistent problems with it. Just one example before I'm done with you.

I actually do point out problems with it from time to time, but the difference is that I don't obsess on it like you do. I try to also focus on what the movie DID good, which apparently you could not figure out for yourself.

 

OBVIOUSLY the proximate reason Han is there is that he's looking for the Falcon. Duh. But the overall reason, the one that changes Han from a random smuggler uninvolved in the mission at the start of the movie to an important character later on, was Rey finding the Falcon. That's the unlikely coincidence, one which makes Han's involvement a contrivance. Do I need to explain every obvious little thing because you can't make the simplest mental connections when reading a post by someone you're disagreeing with? (*)

It wasn't that the writers said to themselves "oh, now that Rey has the Falcon, it might make sense to involve Han" - they started with the need to include Han and put the Falcon on Rey's planet as a way to cause that. And my point is that that's lazy writing. It would have been easy to write the plot in a way that made Han's involvement necessary and not accidental, to give Han or some other character a motivation and the means to make it happen.

Yep, you clearly fail at paying attention to the movie. Han goes back to smuggling because of what happened to Ben solo. He can't cope with the fact that he lost his son, and thus leaves Leia to try and get away from everything. It's the same as if his son had died, parents tend to break up and have problems. This is what happens to real people.

Apparently you once again didn't read what I said. The Falcon is pretty easy to detect since it has a glaring ID signature, and I'm sure that Han would recieve an alert immediately if it was in his vicinity. Yes, he happened to be in the area. Maybe it's another explanation of "The force wanted it to happen" like every other coincidence in Star Wars, or maybe you just have nostalgia goggles on.

 

In Kotor 2, why does the Exile have the Ebon Hawk, the same ship as the protagonist of the previous game? Contrivance? No. It was brought about by the motivations of the character T3-M4, who brought the Hawk back and was looking for Jedi to help Revan. Even though the real reason was probably "so that we can reuse the game asset and give players the ship they're familiar with", the Exile didn't just inexplicably find the Hawk parked on Peragus for no knowable reason. Do you understand what I mean? (*)

 

(*Rhetorical questions, of course. I'm done with this conversation.)

Actually, he/she did find it parked for no reason. If you remember, the only reason why the Exile took the hawk was because it was the only ship capable of getting them out of there. The Exile has no clue of what the Ebon Hawk is except that it got them out of there. It wasn't until AFTER Peragus that Kreia and T3 explain why the Ebon Hawk happens to be there. Just like TFA, or did you miss that tidbit while your mind was trying to come up with a tirade?

You didn't like the movie? Fine, but don't go out of your way insulting people who actually did

Notice how I have the courtesy to address every single quote of yours instead of taking them out of context. You're trying too hard to appear intelligent by criticizing the "coincidences" when the movie actually explains itself.

Oh Cthulhu, where do I even begin.

It's not garbage, that's my point. It's a fully functional ship which just seems to stand there abandoned. No lock on the doors, no lock on the navicomputer, nothing.

But compared to what's around them it's ancient. For all intents and purposes, it's a collector's item.

 

Basic sanity check: imagine it's a modern setting and we're talking about a car. A car with a full gas tank and keys in the ignition, just standing there near a busy marketplace for the protagonists to grab, with a layer of dust on it suggesting it's been standing there for a long time without anyone just taking it. We'd think it ridiculously convenient and a weak point in a movie, wouldn't we? And that's even before it turns out the car just happens to be the very one used by the protagonists in a previous movie.

Welcome to Star Wars convenience.

 

A silly comparison. In A New Hope Han and Chewie are just random guys we just met. It's not a coincidence, it's anthropic principle; any pilot Obi-wan happened to hire would have been part of the plot and, in retrospect, have had a chance to be an important player in the following events. But that we run into Han and Chewie again for no real reason is contrived.

That's such a backwards argument and you know it, do you even read what you're saying? We run into Han and Chewie because Han's been looking to find the falcon, and since he'd recognize it's signature anywhere, it's not exactly unexpected that we'd run into him. Try again

 

Roll a 6-sided die 10 times and remember the combination of numbers that you got. Whichever combination you got, out of the 6^10 possibilities, there's nothing special about and it's not a coincidence. But if you repeat the experiment later and get the same combination, THAT is a coincidence of extremely low odds.

Oh wait, could it be that maybe all movies are extremely convenient? But sure, let's make everything stroke your ego, and have exposition to explain everything

For a character to be important to the plot, there have to be reasons -  logical, causal reasons - for them to be involved in the goings on. A role for them to play. For example in Empire Strikes Back, Han is involved because Vader wanted to use him to draw Luke out. The plot is Vader's attempt to capture Luke, and Han is Vader's bait in the trap set for that purpose. If Vader went after Luke in some other way, Han's escape to Cloud City would have made him unimportant; it'd be good that he survived, but he'd no longer be important to the film's plot.

 

On the other hand, there is no logical reason why Qui-Gonn takes Anakin with him to Naboo to take part in the war. "So that Anakin can destroy the control ship" is not a reason, not unless Qui-gon specifically states "I sense the boy is meant to play a role in the coming war" - but that's not what happens, he expects Anakin to sit the battle out in the safety of a fighter's cockpit. Which is why that movie makes less sense than it could have with better writing.

 

Similarly, "so that Han can have a scene where he dies to Kylo Ren" is not a reason that makes Han important in TFA. He's part of the events through sheer accident. "because he was one of the reasons Ben fell to the dark side" makes him important to the background, not to current events.

 

This is part of why ESB is a good movie and TFA is... less good. The audience is not left asking "why are all these important characters at the same time and place in Cloud City, isn't that contrived?", because there are reasons for this, emerging from the plans and desires of the characters. It's not just scriptwriter say-so, it makes sense: Boba Fett and Vader would have followed Han and Leia whereever they went, and then Luke would have gone there to save his friends. In TFA, lots of stuff has no reason except for authorial say-so, and that's not good writing.

You're saying all this stuff and not giving any evidence. Han's importance to TFA is to Kylo Renn's character development. Second of all, he's the one who knows how to get the droid to the Resistance.

 

I'm looking for the barest respect for the audience's intelligence, and the barest effort to come up with something that isn't that ridiculous. It would have been so, so easy to do better than what they did, it's like they didn't try at all, just someone asked "how can we top the Death Star" and that was the first draft idea that someone threw up and they just went with it without caring if it makes the barest amount of sense.

Thanks for taking my quote of context, really makes you look smart... not. If it's so ridiculous, maybe explain how it is

 

LOL. So does an axe. Doesn't mean it's handled the way a lightsaber is.

Right back at you. That energy baton thing is similar to a tonfa. If you are suggesting training with a tonfa will let you perform well with sword... and lightsabers are supposed to be hard and dangerous to use. Granted, he did lose to the stormtrooper, so whatever. But his fight with Kylo shouldn't have lasted 10 seconds, and actually landing a hit on Kylo? No.

Oh boo hoo, a non jedi can use a lightsaber because all it is is just a sword made of laser beams, that doesn't mean they are good. Maybe you should look back where I said kylo is injured. Do you even read?

 

"It will make sense in the next movie" is never a good justification; 9 out of 10 the real answer turns out to be "bad writing". The remaining 1 out of 10 is often accompanied by the work acknowledging the unexplained thing (e.g. one character asking another "How did you do that? That should have been impossible"), thus telling the audience "yes, this is something unusual, and you can reasonably expect it will have an equally unusual explanation". But this movie, standing on its own, is just asking us to accept that Rey is just that much of a prodigy.

Apparently the concept of a trilogy is incomprehensible to the likes of you. Star Wars is no longer meant to be just one movie, nor has any of the movies since ESB. There were PLENTY of questions that made sense in return of the jedi, but I guess that get's a pass since it's the original trilogy. Take a look at lord of the rings and you'll see what I mean

 

Yep, the Force can be a great explainer of such things. I am reminded of the "ta'veren" concept from the Wheel of Time, which is pretty much unabashedly explained as "main character powers" - and it works.

 

But there is a limit to it. For example, to use the Anakin on Naboo example again: if the reason Qui-Gon took Anakin with him to a warzone was the Force, what did Qui-Gon think his reason was? If he was consciously following a hint from the Force, the audience is not told this. If the Force led him to think he has mundane, sensical reasons for it, what are those reasons? Even if destiny is subtly bringing things and people together, those people still must have their own motivations for doing what they do.

 

Now Rey happening on the Falcon (and therefore later meeting Han) might have made sense as a Force-induced coincidence, even if an actual plot reason for their meeting would have been better. But the actions of whoever left the Falcon there unguarded do not make sense. Even when you are willing to use it as a crutch, you can only excuse so much with the Force.

"The Force" is use to explain every single convenient thing in Star wars, and there is a lot of them. If you can't handle that, go watch another movie.

Agh... there are no coincidences, there is only the force

That too, I probably should have mentioned that XD

It's not as horrid as the prequels, but the writing is full of stupid.

 

So yeah. The Millenium Falcon discarded like garbage, just standing there, unguarded, with no security or  even closed doors, and it just so happens to be fuelled and running, perfectly flight- and combat-ready. Realistically, it would have been stolen long before the movie gets there.

If it's garbage, then why would it be guarded? Second of all, the falcon was regarded as garbage by Luke in ANH, so there. It wasn't perfectly considering that it nearly crashed a couple times due to dust collecting in its engines. Second of all, I can guarantee that the owner of that shop probably kept it fueled in case he needed to make a hasty escape. It's not that hard to open the doors since there probably is a switch on the outside

 

Then they just so happen to get found by Han and Chewie.

Welcome to plot development 101, Luke and Obi-wan just so happened to run into han and chewie in A new Hope

 

Then Han's contact just so happens to have Luke's lightsaber in her possession.

That's a plot question that will probably be answered later, but these "just so happened" questions aren't special to this movie but pretty much all of star wars. Why did Luke just so happen to crash next to yoda's house on Dagobah? Why did the Red R2 unit that Owen bought so happen to blow up so R2 could go with 3p0?

 

All this stuff is in there not because the plot of this movie needs it in any way whatsoever - you could cut out Han and the Falcon and all you'd really need is some different way for Rey to get a lightsaber before her fight with Kylo. It's there because it was in the previous movie, it's familiar to the fans, and they needed to shoehorn it in somehow. But Han is not important.

Really? How so? How would Rey know to go to Maz's planet considering she doesn't even know it exists? BB-8 would take them to the resistance system, but she wouldn't find the lightsaber

 

And the worst part? I can EASILY fix that so that they become integral plot elements and don't offend the viewer's intelligence. Make it so that actually Han is the only person who knows where Luke went. (Maybe Luke told him, or maybe Han was crafty and managed to figure it out, but Luke made him promise not to tell Leia and others). Or if not Han, then R2, similarly to Revan-T3, and R2 is with Han. And the device the little ball droid was carrying is actually a tracking code for the Millenium Falcon, so that the Resistance can find Han/R2 and ask them where Luke is. There you go, the Falcon and its crew are suddenly important and don't feel shoehorned.

... ugh. Han was integral to the plot because he was one of the reasons Ben fell to the dark side, not to mention the reason he probably fell further. Han and Luke probably weren't on the best of terms since Han probably blamed him for his sons fall, why would he tell HIM of all people where he went. Second of all, why would Han just let Luke stay where he is without going to check up on him, AND if Han was really the only one to know where he is then it would have been easier for the First Order to just nab him and laugh as they interrogate him. AS for R2, he was with leia, so yeah.

 

Then there's the notion of draining a star into a planet as fuel for a weapon... no. Just no. Does anyone writing this have any idea how much bigger a star is compared to a planet?

This is Star Wars, not Interstellar or 2001. If you're looking for scientific accuracy, you're looking in the wrong place considering the very first movie had laser blast sounds in space and that lightsabers are about as practical as that, or that even a moon-sized space station is able to travel nearly as fast as a ship as small as the millenium Falcon. I'll admit it was a bit dumb, but I refer to my previous point

 

As a minor point (which shouldn't be minor, but compared to the idiocy of the Starkiller weapon it's nothing), Kylo Ren is a trained and experienced Darkside user who's successfully defeated several Jedi apprentices. Finn is just a soldier, and fighting Kylo was his second or third time wielding a lightsaber. There is no way in the universe he should have landed a hit. It should have been Vader-vs-Luke-in-Cloud-City except squared; even wounded, Kylo would toy with him a little then injure him. Even Finn's successfully using the lightsaber against the stormtrooper with that funky weapon should have been explained somehow ("Let's hope my vibrosword training holds up with this"), other than "main character powers" that is.

*sigh* Kylo was wounded, and he was inexperienced because Snoke clearly says "It's time to complete his training." He wasn't a full sith, rather a dark jedi wannabe. Second, all stormtroopers carry that energy baton, which means Finn probably would have had training with it. Counts as a melee weapon. Maybe you should pay attention more to the movie. Finn barely did much as he ended up getting his arse kicked anyway

 

For that matter, Rey defeating Kylo is also unsatisfying, for the same reason why Luke defeating Vader in Cloud City would have been. It took Luke frikkin' Skywalker 3 movies to get good enough to take on Vader.

If they needed Rey to win (which they didn't: they could have her lose, then before he kills her, Kylo loses consciousness from blood loss, or Finn shoots him in the back), then they should have played up Kylo's injury, show us his vision swimming, like he's barely clinging to consciousness. At this point, why is Kylo an impressive villain again? And does something like "Jedi training" and "combat experience" mean anything?

Again... Renn isn't a full sith. But then again you're forgetting we barely know Rey's background at all. You're jumping to conclusions when you're leaving out a ton of possibilities, like maybe she was trained and she didn't know it? Why is she having flashbacks about the Jedi getting killed when the movie doesn't say she was there? Or, Why do you think she kept with a staff all those years on Jakku? Don't you think THAT might have helped?

 

You mean the middle finger?

Never thought of it that way

You also want to change the tag and template resref inside the file to match...

^ that too

Thanks guys!

Actually, I discovered that replacing the sith lightsaber is as simple as re-naming the file to what the Sith Lightsaber's is, thus removing the necessity of a UTP edit ( plus I assume the game requires you to have the saber itself in inventory in order to progress, so having the file as the name of the sith saber would probably prevent broken games )

He was collecting them, not using them.

 

But yeah, positively sure Finn is the first non-Jedi that used a lightsaber aside from the mechanically enhanced (Grievous, and he was horrible with them). Which is jarring to me too.

No, because Pre-Vizla used the darksaber in Clone Wars, it pretty much shows that anyone can use them, because they are just swords with laser beams (hue hue austin powers reference)

I don't get how people come up with this notion that lightsabers require special powers to use, where at all was it said that non-jedi can't use them very well? If anything, they just prefer blasters because you can only be GOOD with a lightsaber if you have the force because that helps you block blaster bolts.

Also... technically, Vader and Sidious wern't the ones who blew up Alderaan (Vader actually despised the death star), it was Tarkin's call alone that destroyed Alderaan

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

Plus he practically was Tarkin's ***** through A New Hope.

Anyway, we're de-railing the thread ._.

There was one interesting theory I read about Snoke being Kylo Ren from the future. He had photos comparing the scars that Kylo received in TFA to some of the scars on Snokes face and they are really similar in shape (surprisingly). Although I think SW fans would be outraged if this was the case

Dear god... time travel in Star Wars. That's a new one, I don't think we've seen that at all in any Star Wars, EU or otherwise, but I think it's one we'd all like to avoid unless it's done right, otherwise you end up looking like Star Trek: Voyager

Exactly, Sidious even started demilitarizing much of the empire and went from Advanced clones to normal civilians (which provided many jobs for locals in the outer rim as well)... That was the explanation for the reason why their normal weapons were a downgrade from TCW aswell (It was stated in one of the Kanan comics). And many of the bad things that the empire were portrayed as doing were there before the empire was established (and lets be honest, much of the senate in the republic were involved in many of these bad things that the empire were shown doing in the OT, the senate wouldn't even help Naboo when they were being invaded by the Trade Federation. IDT the empire would allow that to happen) Also, it had been established that the Republic was already pretty corrupt. from the senate to the jedi

 

I was hoping Kylo would be Ezra as well, theirs still a possibility that Kanan or Ezra are Snoke though. I do like Kanans character alot, the marvel comics have portrayed him brilliantly. I still feel as though they wouldnt have SW rebels around unless it tied into the films somehow.

Ehh.... I don't see that happening, I still think Snoke is going to turn out to be a re-incarnation of Plageuis. If not, I'd love to see how this would be done, especially since the alternative is some random evil dude popping out of no-where

IDT they will make her a Kenobi, it takes alot away from Kenobi's established character and IDT he would have risked having a child no matter how much he loved Satine. If anything, she has more of a chance of being a child of Kanan or Ezra (Who I still wish to see them tie into the new trilogy somehow, whether or not they have a descendant (like Rey) or maybe an appearance). I am hoping she is just some random chick who may have been Lukes apprentice at sometime before Kylos betrayal

I was hoping Kylo Renn's identity would have been kept secret till the next movie or episode 9 to reveal that he is..... Ezra. Too bad, because that would have been a wonderful tie in. Still, I'm ok with how it turned out, but it'd be nice if the galaxy could move on from the skywalker drama

 

No I am not, I was always an empire supporter... I prefer the empire. At the end of the day, both sides wanted peace among other things (Which is why Sidious created the deathstar, to keep all systems in check and without conflict), its just Sidious didn't care about the means to achieve it unlike the rebels (who have failed because the same war is still going on after 30yrs)

ALL HAIL LORD SIDIOUS.

TBH, if you think about it, what was the real reason that the rebellion started? I mean were things THAT bad under the empire? Destroying planets aside (which occurred as a message like nagasaki and hiroshima to the rebels) I read that the empire was pretty good. Maintained peace, had a decent military corps that was worth joining and taught you a lot, levelled out the economy, etc. We didn't really see how evil they were until they destroyed Alderaan and tortured Leia

This is pointless.

You realize he's messing with you right?

Here are my two theories on Rey---IF she is part of the Skywalker family tree.

 

1. She is the daughter of Han and Leia. However, Han didn't know about her. Han and Leia could have been separated during the pregnancy and Leia hid her existence from him. This would account for Leia's intense hug of Rey. It also covers the possible father figure feeling Rey had for Han in their brief meeting.

 

or

 

2. Since Luke/Anakin's lightsaber was recovered,....so was Luke's hand. Rey was created from Luke's genetic material. if I remember correctly, this was part of the old Timothy Zahn triology books. This would allow Rey to be Luke's "daughter" without introducing some random new female love interest.

 

Discuss amongst yourselves.........

Still think she's a kenobi. Remember, in the Clone Wars, it shows how Kenobi got intimate with Satine a lot before Anakin came into the picture, and they are depicted as somewhat scorned lovers. I'm sure that she probably hid it when Kenobi chose to stick with the order rather than her.

1) By far the biggest is that this did not seem to mesh well with the general "Star Wars-y" atmosphere that I had in my brain after six movies and two KOTOR games. I think this is a more legitimate feeling since I actually watched both episodes V and VI less than a week ago. In the prequels, I felt like Padme didn't fit into the Star Wars universe; here, I felt the same way about most of the characters. With some parts especially (especially a number of sequences featuring Finn), it seemed a lot more like people from our world getting to be in the Star Wars universe -- which, admittedly it was. The situation wasn't helped much by the returnees, since they generally looked and felt different from themselves in the OT -- although I can chalk this up to the actors being decades older.

I've seen this by some people and this just makes no sense... Franchises change, but this is just subjective

 

2) This had better be the last Star Wars movie that culminates in a space battle-type scene to destroy the planet-destroying device. It was kind of old after the second time (in ROTJ) and my reaction this time is basically "really, you couldn't think of anything different?"

 

This didn't feel like A New Hope all over again to me, though, but I did notice parallels. But the overall feel is totally different for me. Again, I think that's largely due to the characters.

This is my sentiment here along with a lot of us who enjoyed the movie, we're done with having superweapons after this one, but I think for the movie it didn't detract from it. Maybe it's because the last time Star wars did this was 30 years and 3 movies ago

 

3) They killed off exactly one major character -- and it had to be Han Solo? The iconic character who also, I might add, was doing a heck of a lot more than any other returnees? I could have taken it better if they'd taken advantage of the great opportunities to kill off Finn, or Poe, or Kylo, but it was just Han. I also would have liked it more if Han's death was a bit more blunt -- that would have taken some of the sting away from it.

 

I hope that Luke sees a fair bit of action next film. I did note the irony that Han, who in A New Hope was mostly scoffing at Obi-Wan, ended up filling a very similar role to him in this film, rather than Luke, who would have seemed to be the logical choice for that role.

Characters die, this movie was meant as a passing of the torch to the new generation. You don't kill the mainstays of the new trilogy in the first movie.

As for the role passage, Luke is going to be a bit similar to how Yoda was, I'm interested in seeing how that dynamic works. IMO Han's similarity to obi-wan is only because he tells them of the force and then dies. That's it, and it's fitting for him because he was the one who was like "force is bullshit" in the original movie, it shows how much his character has changed.

 

4) Seeing any familiar planets, rather than just new ones similar to those, would have been nice. Instead we just get a bunch of new ones, including those that look similar enough to Tatooine and Coruscant that I though they were those when I first saw them. I also wished that more planet names could have been given. In particular, when the bad guys blew up the Republic, I was thinking "did they just blow up Coruscant?" It would have been nice to not have to come home and consult Wookieepedia to find out.

They said in the movie it was the Hosnian System, stated when they get to the resistance base. I'm fine with there being no tatooine or coruscant considering how they were in nearly every single movie.

5) Not enough exposition/too much confusion in some parts. In particular the Empire wreckage all over Jakku. Might be slightly unrelated, but I also thought that the Resistance was incredibly stupid to stay on the planet that the First Order was going to blow up and not evacuate.

A. The movie does a lot of visual story-telling, which was enough IMO to get a feel of what's been going on. You don't always need exposition. I will say this, however, the opening crawl could have had a bit more detail on the state of the Republic.

B. The same argument could be made for the Rebellion on staying on Yavin IV, just because we saw them re-unite there doesn't mean they aren't shortly going to leave.

 

6) Kylo Ren. As far as I'm concerned, there is not a single redeeming feature about him. All the other bad guys in Star Wars were at least cool in some way; Palpatine's absolute genius for most of the saga, for instance. Instead, to me, Kylo just seemed kind of lame. Some specific things against him:

a) The way he killed Han Solo, obviously. Might have been better if it wasn't Han, of course.

b. I didn't like the under-the-mask voice at all. It reminded me of some of the voicing from M4-78 that sounded more amateurish.

c) Rather than controlling and using his anger like the Sith, he just crazily bashes stuff with his lightsaber. That makes him seem more lame to me.

d) He has to force pull a dude to his hand to choke him instead of doing the Darth Vader choke.

e) You are never EVER going to persuade me that his lightsaber is anywhere near as cool as the original/"real" lightsaber.

I wish he had died at the end of the movie a la Darth Maul. Probably one of my least favorite Star Wars characters ever. I get the feeling he's going to be redeemed at some point, which will make some parts of this movie (killing Solo comes to mind) worse for me.

Does he need to be redeeming? If anything, the movie is showing the opposite of Vader's transition. He's probably not going to be redeemed, if anything he'll be full dark from here on out.

a) Please tell me how? From what I'm seeing, this is just you upset because Han died (no offense). Him killing somebody else wouldn't have had half the effect that Han's death had, considering he was his father, and an estranged one at that.

b. that's subjective, but I digress

c) He's not a sith, atleast not yet. Snoke himself says he needs to complete his training, if anything he's a neophyte. Also explains why he gets his but whooped by Rey.

d) That's a choice, not a need.

e)...ok?

And what purpose would that serve? It would do the same thing to Darth Maul, terribly under-used. Like I said, you don't kill the mainstays of the trilogy in the first film.

 

7) Crossing into minor details at this point... It would have been way epic for Wedge to come back, since we were having another battle to destroy the planet-destroying machine. (Although looking it up, I see that it was the actor's fault, so I guess this one doesn't count.)

I laughed when he said it would be "beneath him" what a joke

 

8) Some of Rey's abilities seemed to manifest quite quickly, especially the Force-related ones. It didn't really bother me much though, and if she does turn out to be offspring of Luke (and whom?) then it makes perfect sense to me.

I think she's a kenobi, but as for her abilities we don't actually know the full story behind Rey. She could have had training and not known it, and I'm sure this will be explained in the next movie

 

9) Similarly, it seemed slightly amazing that Finn didn't slice himself in half during his first bout with the lightsaber. Again, though, it didn't bother me that much.

Don't understand why he would... it's a freaking sword that's made of lasers. He's had training in melee clearly thanks to every storm trooper having that baton

 

10) Is there a requirement for every movie to have a romance or something? Was it really necessary?

Where the hell is the romance other than Han and Leia's rekindling? Seriously? Rey kissing Finn on the head does not equate to romance

QUOTE (since there's apparently a limit?) "I know this looks like a lot of complaints, but I did enjoy the movie overall. It was a good movie, I think. Just had some flaws and wasn't the continuation of the Star Wars saga that I was hoping for. Admins, sorry if this post went too long."

I'm sure you did, I just wanted to address them for you

And as for it not being the continuation... And let's face it the new star wars is not going to be a visual representation of our head-canon anymore... It's new stuff.

1) The major death laser thing is a bit overdone. Let's leave that plot device alone for a while?

 

Agreed, while I also wasn't erred by the superweapon thing, I think it's time to move on

 

2) "Snoke"? That name seems a bit undercooked to me. Let me know when it comes out of the oven.

*cough*pseudonym for Darth Plageuis *cough*

 

3) Let's think about the soundtrack. Is there anything new in it that you could imagine humming walking out of the theater? Perhaps the soundtrack will grow on me - we'll see.

For me, The scene with the destroyer eclisping Jakku and the following music as the shuttles descended towards it. Also the march of the resistance theme.

Here's a link to the soundtrack, it's on youtube -->

TBQH the music was somewhat tame in places, but I think it's because they wanted to let the scenes speak for itself rather than setting the tone for it

 

4) Hated Adam Driver's performance the first time I saw TFA but I don't think I minded it at all the second time. (The Mrs. has put a ban on Kylo Ren merchandise in the house because of - reasons.)

Personally, I think he was greatly acted, particularly how his voice sounded almost robotic and menacing even when after he removed his mask in some parts.

These are just my opinions though