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@Mutilator57 Is correct. Plus Obsidian have said they were intending to make KOTOR 3 about the Exile going into the outer rim to find Revan and fight the "True" Sith Empire. This is what Chris Avellone the lead writer for Obsidian (at the time) said: “The third game involved you, as a player character, following where Revan went and then taking the battle to the really ancient Sith lords who are far more terrifying than the Darths that show up. These guys would just be monsters. These would have a level of power that was considerable, but at the same time you'd be able to dig more into their psychologies, and their personalities, their history, and even how they dealt with the player, how they talk with the player, the different powers they cultivated and developed, and for some of them like – they're the ancients, so they're not just ruling a solar system, [but] swathes of the galaxy. “So the places you travel to [you’d see] how they left their stamp on that world, or that solar system, or whatever collection of moons. You'd see how horrible that was. Part of that environment would tell a story about that. [That] would be a great, epic way to end the trilogy. The Old Republic are out there. We just didn't get a chance to do it.” This is copied straight from the Wookieepedia page. A link to the Wookieepedia page for the cancelled KOTOR 3 with a plot summary: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_3 TOR didn't create the idea of the hidden "True" Sith. TOR just changed the idea a bit so instead of it being a hidden empire, it was just random Sith emperor who was the best at everything. Also according to TOR this random emperor was manipulating Revan since the beginning of KOTOR 1 and Revan did actually fall to the dark side. KOTOR 2 told us that Revan never truly fell and was just trying to strengthen the galaxy because Revan knew there was a greater threat waiting for the right moment to strike. TOR is a fun game but Revan being manipulated the whole time basically destroys any plot ideas KOTOR 2 built

Hey man thanks for your post. But I might be bias since I am a Kreia fan, but it's been sometime since I completed K2 and I've never completed it with the restored content mod, which is why I am replaying the game with the restored content. Anyway my point is I don't remember that quote but like I said it's been sometime since I completed the game. The reason why I remember what she says on the Ebon Hawk is because I just went through that conversation. But either way I think I picked an enemy old EU fans will like. I just can't see how Nihilus's hunger could skip an empire full of Force users.

I think that line referred to Ulic Qel Droma, when he recruited Mandalore. Canderous was old enough to have fought in that war. Lol, what? So Revan wandering out there, the entire time he was in jail? Did they put him on trail before the Senate or something like that? I haven't read the book, or played any of swotor, but the more I learn about the retcon, the more I have to laugh.

This sounds awesome! Best of luck on this! @Ebony Moon Yep, Canderous said the "Sith came to them with an offer" which clearly meant the remains of Naga Sadow/Kun's forces and not the ones Bioware came up with for SWTOR. The loading screens themselves in K1 like you said stated the Sith species died out long ago, so Bioware retconed their own game! Also, remember at the end of K2 where Kreia says Revan will need Jedi and Sith alike? Well, that's another thing Bioware changed since Revan was locked up in jail during the events of K2.

Based on a suggestion by @ebmar, I have been fooling around with some holograms for the Ebon Hawk after it crashes onto Lehon. I'm not sure if it will actually amount to anything, but here are some "sketches" that I have been posting in the /r/kotor Discord.

Yeah, that's a huge inconsistency that really undermines the entire game. That, and how the Exile is portrayed. TBH, personally, I would been happy with K1 never having a sequel unless it was Revan Reborn conquering the galaxy or Revan the Prodigal Knight righting wrongs. I saw something about what Chris Avellone said- now don't get me wrong, I like the guy more than I do Karpyshin, and I do like playing K2, but I think that K3 would miss the epic grandeur of the Tales of the Jedi and the first Kotor. It gets to the point that anything beyond Nihilus, you're basically summoning Cthulhu. Probably it was canceled because the celestials(?) Father, Son, Daughter was the end all be all of the Force for most mortals. Anything else beyond them is incomprehensible. Cosmic beings at certain point may not care about Light Side, Dark Side, etc. That's just my opinion, of course.

So Sion and Kreia are lying? Ok, that could create an interesting basis for a hypothetical K3. Out of interest, what other inconsistencies have you picked up (other than Nihilus' hunger)? Your ideas for a new K3 story are very intriguing. The only reason I brought up the devs is to refute the implicit argument that it was ToR/Revan novel that introduced these ideas. They didn't, they were present in TSL right from the beginning. Of course that doesn't matter if you're arguing that the evidence in TSL is either inconsistent or simple manipulations by the Triumvirate.

So still curious, I did a bit of further checking. Here's what Kreia has to say: "And its empire, the true Sith Empire, rules elsewhere. And Revan knew the true war was not against the Republic. It waits for us beyond the Outer Rim. And he has gone to fight it in his own way". I think the loadscreens are more of a general guide than anything to be relied on with accuracy. Further, those loadscreens also operate on the same knowledge that the PC has. To the galaxy at-large, the true Sith appear dead. That doesn't mean they actually are, even if that was probably the intent of the K1 devs. Clearly, K2 retconned this. I'd be wary of what Kreia says. Remember, she manipulates you for the entire game. It's really only at the end that she finally comes clean as to her true motives. Your second point is interesting, but more of a plot hole than anything else. When it comes down to forecasting what unknown enemy Obsidian intended Revan to face, I think it's clear that the True Sith were that enemy. In addition to the dialogue in-game, devs have confirmed this was the case. But at the end of the day it's your mod. You include whatever you like!

If you read the comic, Tales of the Jedi, the Mandalorians were burned pretty badly by Ulic Qel Droma. You can skip parts? Having to watch what they've done to one of my all time favorite characters is like chewing on aluminum foil. I'm sure the game itself is okay, I'm not knocking that. Yeah, what they did to the Exile, what the hell? That's even worse than what they did to Revan and Bastila.

Yeah I remember what Kreia said, and has been apart of my story for years, and yeah Canderous does say when you first ask him to tell you war stories. He says what Ebony Moon posted. So since in K2 when you accompany Mandalore the other Mandalorians are wary, because they don't want to be in service to the Jedi/ SIth again. They had a bad time when they were allied with Exar Kun. So remnants of Kun's Sith could have approached them with the offer. If you ignore the retcons and skip the storyline about Revan SWTOR is not that bad. It's not great but not terrible. I am not an mmo fan but I did enjoy the Jedi Guardian storyline. Though I never finished because the game gets repetitive and boring. Luckily I had only subscribed for one month. But what made me annoyed besides the Revan retcon, was their was no mention of the Exile or their allies in the game. I mean if it wasn't for a lightside Exile and the Lost Jedi there wouldn't be a Jedi Order. I hate the mistreatment my Exile got by EA BioWare and the book.

I am currently in the process of playing K2 with the restored content mod, and when conversing on the Ebon Hawk, Kreia says Revan met no Sith Empire. Anyway Nihilus hunger would have driven him to the Sith if they had an Empire. Like the Jedi masters on Miraluka, Nihilus would have consumed them. It makes no sense how they could stay undetected from Nihilus for so long. SWTOR's retcons will not be addressed in the mod.

But Revan never went there. Even Canderous mentioned a Sith Empire in K1, but it seemed he referred to remnants of Exar Kun's forces. And there's older Sith like old Jorak Uln in the Valley of the Dark Lords, who was apparently from the Exar Kun times- and had kept the Academy open. But we are reminded in load screens that the Sith as a species had died out centuries ago. So I don't get the impression of the Sith Empire that was retconned for swotor, and certainly not the magnitude of threat.

Yep. It's been maintained in K1 that the true Sith had died out centuries ago and in K2 Kreia says on two different occasions that Revan did not come across a Sith Empire. To be consistent with K! and K2, the unknown enemy would have to be something other than Sith, unlike swotor retcon. Also, that means that Revan and Malak willingly went to the Dark Side, not tortured into it by some Sith emperor. Underscoring the part where Kreia maintains that Revan going dark side was a sacrifice, not forced into it. Besides, Kreia would know if there were another big empire of Sith out there.

Yeah the story is currently going under slight revision since the enemy has been changed. Originally the enemy were going to be remnants of Naga Sadows empire, but then after some discussion with a forum member we came to the realization if such an empire did exist. Darth Nihilus' hunger would have driven him to consume them. So I looked up Wookiepedia and found a better threat. So yeah the story is pretty much the same only the enemy has changed.

I've been working on a mod for KOTOR 2 for the past year and a half solo. The mod is my vision of what KOTOR 3 could have been. The mod starts 5 years before the events of KOTOR 2 and a month after the end of the original KOTOR. The mod will ignore the 'canon" set by SWTOR. The mod will span 5 or more years. You will be able to control both Revan and the Exile during specific plot points. In the beginning of the mod you are in a locked room only with a terminal. When you click on the terminal you will be asked questions like. What gender was Revan and the Exile and what alignment were they? There are two paths to the mod one is a lightside path the other is darkside path. Depending on your answers you will either start as Darth Revan on his flagship or if you use the lightside you will start off as the Prodigal Knight on a big planet. Think Taris but bigger. There will be two big planets and several small planets. The smaller planets are the enemy's slave worlds. For now I will not reveal who the enemy are. All I would say they are more brutal than both the Mandalorians and Sith. This enemy is the reason for both Revan and Malak's fall, and is the threat Kreia speaks of. Also you will start off at max level so you can choose the attributes and powers for your Revan and Exile. In the beginning you will play as Revan, once the time comes to play as the Exile you will be taken to the character creation screen where you can customize the Exile. The reason why you will start off at max level is because the enemy will be tough, and since they are dead to the Force they will have high saves making them almost immune to your Force powers. There will be human and other alien slave warriors that can be killed with the Force. I do not recommend playing as a Jedi Consular or Sith Lord unless you want a challenge. Also I forgot to say depending on your alignment you will either get all your K1 companions (Lightside) or only Bastila, Canderous, HK47, and T3M4 (Darkside). The Exile will also get all their K2 companions. Since I don't have the luxury of hiring the original voice actors. The mod will be using spliced dialogue you since their voices. I will need to recruit voice actors for the new npc's and temporary companions. Also I will need to recruit a texture artist to reskin the modules and a talented scripter. But that's in the near future for now I am busy with world building, audio, npc's, dialogue, and items. Well that's all for now. When I get the modules retextured I will post screenshots. If you know anyone who is a texture artist, voice actor, or scripter let me know either here or by PM. If anyone has suggestion let me know also. Todo list for now: Put together 5 more planets one will be big and the enemy's homeworld. Currently 3 out of the four Republic planets are done. Finish Revan's Flagship. I am using the Leviathan module as a base and am having some issues like, locating textures for it and were to put the rest of the K1 files. Module 90% done. I used this tutorial: Finish replacing npc's with new npc's on planets already done.

LOL! I got a good laugh out of reading that. Like I didn't even remember Drew said Atris was Bastila's age. Like lol what? And I was also reminded just how badly Drew screwed up Revan and Bastila reading that. Like did the guy forget he wrote K1? So Bastila was basically just watching TV while the events of K2 went down then?

No, doesn't mean they are lying. Not at all. Even if there is a Sith Empire out there, it is almost irrelevant as a threat in the face of an even greater threat, which was even hinted at in K1. Now I haven't finished my current game with the added cutscenes- I'm at Malachor, but I do remember what Sion does say in the vanilla. Do they say outright that there is a Sith Empire waiting to attack in the restored content? Do they say where Revan is and what Revan is doing? A lot of what they say is open for interpretation, unless the restored content says otherwise. "A greater threat to come" is what I remember Sion saying. Very ominous if it was the enemy I thought at the time. I had gotten the impression of another enemy entirely throughout both games, an enemy which would be more consistent. And, to be very honest, more impressive and interesting than yet more Jedi vs Sith. The Exile would excel against this one, considering Kreia's focus and training. Unless they do say that the Sith Empire is a direct threat, one comment does not necessarily mean the other. Kreia: "There is a Sith Empire out there." Sion: "The threat that is to come." (I'm on mobile right now so I don't remember the exact quotes) Unless the restored content ties the two together, the one comment does not necessarily mean the other, unless you are upholding what the devs have planned. Which I don't think Talyn intends with this mod. And neither does this make either Kreia or Soon liars.

I think you're misinterpreting me. I'm certainly not endorsing or advocating for ToR's story. I'm simply saying that the idea to have the True Sith be the ultimate enemy wasn't an idea that ToR introduced and so can't really be called a retcon. It was actually something introduced in TSL and is well-established as a part of that game's ending narrative. It isn't even something that is heavily implied or left ambiguous (like the Kreia/Arren Kae connection), both Kreia and Sion flat out admit as much right before their deaths. All ToR did was expand and elaborate on what was actually said in TSL and the intentions that the devs had for K3. Now, if you guys want to ignore it or chalk it up to more of Kreia's manipulations or create a better story, then by all means.

This is about the continuity for the mod Talyn is making, which honors what we find in the two games. Personally I don't go with the retcon, I go only what is found in K1, not even all of K2's stuff. It is all "Legends" now anyways. Here's a rather scathing review about the retcon which does point out the inconsistencies http://theunion4ever.com/nerd-bucket/sbswa-old-republic-part-35/ even that reviewer acknowledges that the devs intended this all along. Hell, I even did my own take of what is left of the Sith Empire in my old Kotor fics written years ago. Not very many of them are Force sensitive and they are surviving in a quiet corner of the universe, hardly a threat. I wanted to portray them as a people who wanted to be free of the corrupting influence of the fallen Jedi who had dominated them for centuries. The had even cleaned out any other remnants based largely on what was fanon way back then before Revan came along and struck a deal with them. I had taken that cue from the hints in the games., but I tried to keep it consistent, or at least what makes sense to me personally. I still maintain that Nihilus would have devoured any significant presence of the Sith. He even comes out of the Unknown Regions in the game. Blatantly ignoring that doesn't make any sense. Oh, okay, I saw that part. I was getting images of a huge Senate trial with all the politics involved. Which would be very entertaining, lol. Yeah, Drew, why?

No worries. Most of this comes out at the end of the game which is maybe why you don't remember it. If you think you've got a better basis for a new story, go for it.

Should be fixed

Oh yeah! Was that in a comic? I've only read a few of the KOTOR ones. Yeah, from what I remember Revan went out to the SWTOR Sith Empire and got knocked out and imprisoned by a Sith Lord there until The Exile and this weird Sith dude bust him out. After that, the Sith dude wants to take the Sheev clone out, but gets cold feet during the battle and stabs The Exile in the back and she dies just like that. Like wow, Drew. But like you said, he also screwed up Revan and Bastila, his own creations!