expansion Sleheyron- Story Mode and Battle Arena 3.2

Hello there!

@SAO1138 I didn't mention it the last time I commented on this mod but there were a few other drawbacks that this mod had that you should probably consider fixing in a future patch (if you haven't already that is):

@Kätzchen Regarding Nomi's issue, that is indeed quite interesting, not only for @SAO1138's mod but also for my expansion, which will feature Nomi herself. What do you think would be the best in that case ? you mentioned several examples but I'd be interested in your take on it. For Yuthura though, I don't remember that Aratech worker girl being sexually related in any way to Yuthura ? Is she not just a friend of hers ? Anyway, still interesting, maybe the twilek girl could be afraid of Yuthura after she becomes a Sith so she believes it's better if they dont meet again.

3 hours ago, Kätzchen said:

Hello there!

@SAO1138 I didn't mention it the last time I commented on this mod but there were a few other drawbacks that this mod had that you should probably consider fixing in a future patch (if you haven't already that is):

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1. Bringing in Nomi Sunrider causes some problems: I know this is supposed to tie into the comics and Nomi is a major part of those, so not having her mentioned would be weird. The problem is that Nomi possesses the ability of battle meditation and as far as the mod was concerned by the time I saw that playthrough, she still has that ability by the time the events of K1 happen. This causes a major consistancy problem with K1, as the game establishes that Bastila, at this point in time at least, is the only one who possesses that ability, hence why she is such a key figure in the war (to the point were she is the only thing preventing the absolute victory of Malak's forces as Carth put it in fact). I'm not suggesting cutting every Nomi reference or to change it as to her having died off-screen, but I do think that this issue needs to be addressed somehow. Some additional detail, establishing a loss of her ability. A disease, age, her losing her connection to the force for unknown reasons, a spiritual or physical injury that may or may not have been caused by Revan, to cripple her abilities so that she doesn't hinder his invasion, anything that doesn't undermine a significant aspect of Kotor and Bastila in particular.

2. The incorporation of Yuthura's backstory is good buuuuut: So, in your mod, Yuthura has an ex-girlfriend on Sleheyron named Kantarra, who is part of the Aratech labour strike and like her, a former slave of the hutts. Now, the (in my opinion) needless sexuality change of Yuthura aside, not having Yuthura's origins from Sleheyron addressed in any way would be weird admittedly but at the same time, if you go to SLeheyron first and then to Korriban sometime later, it gets incredibly noticble that when she tells Revan about her origins, you don't have the option to tell that you have been on the planet, let alone to ask her wether or not she is that Twi'lek girl that Kantarra mentioned growing up with, was separated from and then heared having escaped. Now, I obviously know why that is and I don't have any suggestions on fixing it (at least none that boil down to either using AI or having Yuthura's VA be replaced with the ingame Twi'lek language) but I do think that there needs to be some fix for this issue, because as it's stands, this is a massiv immersion breach for me.

 

Hey there. You know those are actually some really good points. I admit I haven’t thought enough about Nomi’s Battle Meditation in the story here… I guess I always just assumed Bastila’s was more powerful. I forgot that Bastila was mentioned as the only one with the art at the time. 
 

Chaser mentioned he has his own expansion mod, which I’m helping a bit with. Between him and I, we can probably come up with an explanation about Nomi’s absence to be mentioned in his mod (and possibly mine in the future).

Regarding Yuthura and Kantarra:

Well, I suppose I didn’t exactly say that they were *lovers*, just that they were close. But you do make a good point that there should be some way to ask Yuthura if she met Kantarra. Maybe I can repurpose some other voice lines of Yuthura to get her to say something somewhat relevant.

For what it’s worth, though; Vima does comment to Yuthura that she’s been to Sleheyron if you bring her with you to the Sith Academy.

Thanks for the good points. These are issues worth resolving. I have a patch planned soon (accidentally deleted it last weekend, now I need to remake it), and I’ll see if I can address at least a little of the Yuthura issue before then.

9 hours ago, The_Chaser_One said:

@Kätzchen Regarding Nomi's issue, that is indeed quite interesting, not only for @SAO1138's mod but also for my expansion, which will feature Nomi herself. What do you think would be the best in that case ? you mentioned several examples but I'd be interested in your take on it. For Yuthura though, I don't remember that Aratech worker girl being sexually related in any way to Yuthura ? Is she not just a friend of hers ? Anyway, still interesting, maybe the twilek girl could be afraid of Yuthura after she becomes a Sith so she believes it's better if they dont meet again.

 I personally would go with something Revan related. Kotor 2 established him/her as a cold, ruthless master tactician who commited acts like bombing Telos, one of the many Jedi bases that the order created in case of a necessary retreat, just to send them a message, one who used precise strikes of assassination and sabotage against the Republic to weaken it without crippling it's machinery and who prefered capturing and turning Jedi rather than killing them unless it was deemed necessary. So it stands to reason that for them, Grandmaster Nomi Sunrider would be a very valuable asset in the war against the true Sith-Empire yet the very power that makes her so valuable as a potential ally would naturally also make her a potential threat to Revan themselves. So I could indeed imagine a scenario were Revan either did something to her that would cripple her abilities for a certain periode of time without actively killing her OR that they tried to capture, torture and turn her like many other Jedi, but that the attempt failed and Nomi managed to get away, but that the event had an unintended side-effect of her connection to the force being damaged someway somehow, forcing her to eitherretreat and try to restore her abilities, while also trying to teach Bastila how to use battle meditation after finding out that she possesses the capabilities to learning and mastering that ability as well. How exactly Revan would accomplish such a thing, I dunno. In case of a genuin assassination attempt however, I could maybe imagine him trying to use a poison made from the blood of a force resistent creature such as the Terentatek (or something in that direction at least).


As for Kantarra in @SAO1138's Sleheyron Mod, there is a throw away line were Kantarra mentions that she and Yuthura got forcibly separated by Omeesh by having Kantarra sold to Aratech and if asked, she says that the reason for it was that, I quote, "slave owners are not fond of pairings between slaves that cannot result in offspring. It is bad business for them". 


Here is a vid from the S:SM playthrough through which I encountered the mod. The aforementioned line comes at 21:25

7 hours ago, Kätzchen said:

 I personally would go with something Revan related. Kotor 2 established him/her as a cold, ruthless master tactician who commited acts like bombing Telos, one of the many Jedi bases that the order created in case of a necessary retreat, just to send them a message, one who used precise strikes of assassination and sabotage against the Republic to weaken it without crippling it's machinery and who prefered capturing and turning Jedi rather than killing them unless it was deemed necessary. So it stands to reason that for them, Grandmaster Nomi Sunrider would be a very valuable asset in the war against the true Sith-Empire yet the very power that makes her so valuable as a potential ally would naturally also make her a potential threat to Revan themselves. So I could indeed imagine a scenario were Revan either did something to her that would cripple her abilities for a certain periode of time without actively killing her OR that they tried to capture, torture and turn her like many other Jedi, but that the attempt failed and Nomi managed to get away, but that the event had an unintended side-effect of her connection to the force being damaged someway somehow, forcing her to eitherretreat and try to restore her abilities, while also trying to teach Bastila how to use battle meditation after finding out that she possesses the capabilities to learning and mastering that ability as well. How exactly Revan would accomplish such a thing, I dunno. In case of a genuin assassination attempt however, I could maybe imagine him trying to use a poison made from the blood of a force resistent creature such as the Terentatek (or something in that direction at least).


As for Kantarra in @SAO1138's Sleheyron Mod, there is a throw away line were Kantarra mentions that she and Yuthura got forcibly separated by Omeesh by having Kantarra sold to Aratech and if asked, she says that the reason for it was that, I quote, "slave owners are not fond of pairings between slaves that cannot result in offspring. It is bad business for them". 


Here is a vid from the S:SM playthrough through which I encountered the mod. The aforementioned line comes at 21:25

 

I think you misunderstand the dialogue, although it was indeed kind of clumsy. Right after the line you quoted, she called Yuthura her friend. Cant get clearer than that

Regarding Nomi, I think Revan related wouldnt really make sense, because that would mean he infiltrated Coruscant after having become a Sith ? Or before ? But if it's before, when ? Because he only turns to the Dark Side after his encounter with Vitiate so it would make no sense for him to try to assassinate Nomi before. But if it's after, how to explain he succeeded in going to Coruscant ? Or Nomi would go off planet ?

There's some of my ideas from my conversation with Sao : this war and her 2 lovers' deaths, especially that 2d one (Qel Droma), could be why she's very sad AND why she would potentially cut herself from the Force and go back to her first belief that she didnt want to be a Jedi at first, letting that to her daughter (Vima, who, contrary to her mother, genuinely wanted to be a Jedi) and focusing on rebuilding the Republic a little like Leia in the Thrawn legends trilogy

2 hours ago, The_Chaser_One said:

I think you misunderstand the dialogue, although it was indeed kind of clumsy. Right after the line you quoted, she called Yuthura her friend. Cant get clearer than that

Regarding Nomi, I think Revan related wouldnt really make sense, because that would mean he infiltrated Coruscant after having become a Sith ? Or before ? But if it's before, when ? Because he only turns to the Dark Side after his encounter with Vitiate so it would make no sense for him to try to assassinate Nomi before. But if it's after, how to explain he succeeded in going to Coruscant ? Or Nomi would go off planet ?

There's some of my ideas from my conversation with Sao : this war and her 2 lovers' deaths, especially that 2d one (Qel Droma), could be why she's very sad AND why she would potentially cut herself from the Force and go back to her first belief that she didnt want to be a Jedi at first, letting that to her daughter (Vima, who, contrary to her mother, genuinely wanted to be a Jedi) and focusing on rebuilding the Republic a little like Leia in the Thrawn legends trilogy

My idea was based on a character archetype, that I really like, which is that of the "Doomed Hero". A character who is in the process of dying or facing a fate that to them is akin to or worse than death, leading to them using their remaining time for something they deem meaningful, so that they can leave the world without regret (in her case, finding someone with the talent for battle meditation, leading to Bastila learning that ability from Nomi). All Star Superman's Superman, MHA's All Might, ASOIAF's Jon Connington, Pedro and Whitebeard from One Piece and so on just to name a few examples of that archetype. And as to the when, I would've said the beginning of the war. Nomi leaves Coruscant to aid the Republic during the first battles, Revan uses HK or lures her into a trap (creating a parallel to what the Jedi will later do to him/her) or both.

At the end of the day however, that's just my idea based on my preferences. I obviously can't tell you two what to do and I admittedly never read her comics, so I don't know what exactly would make sense for her character. 

6 hours ago, Kätzchen said:

My idea was based on a character archetype, that I really like, which is that of the "Doomed Hero". A character who is in the process of dying or facing a fate that to them is akin to or worse than death, leading to them using their remaining time for something they deem meaningful, so that they can leave the world without regret (in her case, finding someone with the talent for battle meditation, leading to Bastila learning that ability from Nomi). All Star Superman's Superman, MHA's All Might, ASOIAF's Jon Connington, Pedro and Whitebeard from One Piece and so on just to name a few examples of that archetype. And as to the when, I would've said the beginning of the war. Nomi leaves Coruscant to aid the Republic during the first battles, Revan uses HK or lures her into a trap (creating a parallel to what the Jedi will later do to him/her) or both.

 

At the end of the day however, that's just my idea based on my preferences. I obviously can't tell you two what to do and I admittedly never read her comics, so I don't know what exactly would make sense for her character. 

Bastila getting her battle meditation from Nomi would indeed make sense ! This one is a great idea imo. The "doomed hero" though, after having reviewed Nomi's full story on Wookiepedia, doesnt really seem to fit her, although Sao, who's read the comics, would probably give an even more useful insight.