MDLedit bug reporting thread

[JCarter426 1,215]

I wasn't either, but as long as they're technically different things being animated - bones vs meshes, or whatever - I wouldn't be very surprised. I'm guessing when the engine plays the animation, each individual object gets a different set of instructions. So it's conceivable those instructions can come from different sources, though it's in most cases it's all or nothing.

Essentially, every model - the stunt model, the character model, the supermodel, is told to play CUT001W (or whatever animation it is) and through various black magicks it decides which keyframes from which model in which order for all that to happen. Or something.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

I've discovered an odd crashing issue with a model that I can't diagnose. I had a working version, but then I split the head mesh for hierarchy-based occlusion (another hologram). This new model would consistently crash at the end of the conversation. I then further split the model, but additionally I moved the mesh split off in the previous edit to a different spot in the hierarchy. The new model does not cause a crash. I can only assume it must be the hierarchy position that was the cause, as the previously spilt mesh itself didn't change and an additional mesh split was added in the working model.

Here are the two models:

K1_Crashing_Holo_Rakatan.7z

And if you want to test in-game, use this save and run up to the pillars to initiate the cutscene/conversation:

K1_Save_Rakatan_Elders.7z

[JCarter426 1,215]

FYI, you only uploaded one model.

The only thing that jumps out as odd to me is that the talk animation is parented to talkdummy, which I believe is normal for lip movement but maybe it was particularly sensitive to your edits. Could try baking talkdummy and relinking everything.

Although, as far as I remember, that model doesn't even have functioning lips. I also noticed it has no talk animations (e.g. tlknorm). So there could be something else fishy on the model.

 

[DarthParametric 3,785]

Ah, must have only selected the one folder.

K1_Crashing_Holo_Rakatan_2.7z

This isn't the original hologram model, which lacked proper face bones and did not animate mouth movements, correct. This is a scaled down version of the regular Rakata so it has lip sync now.

[bead-v 251]

I know I said there'd be no more unoffical versions, but the changes for this version were so big it would be stupid to release it directly. All the binary read/write functions were rewritten to make sure errors that were happening previously can't happen anymore. In terms of new functionalities there's not much, except that the connection between the tree view and the hex view has been improved and if you turn on AutoScroll, the hex view will automatically jump to the corresponding data as you traverse the tree nodes.

Nothing new with the tangent space vectors, I took a look at it but I would need more time for that... I think this'll have to wait a bit more until me and ndix UR have more time to figure out the algorithm.

Anyway, this is the release candidate, if there are no serious bugs I'm releasing it as v1.1.0.

mdledit_v1.0.99b.zip

mdledit_v1.0.99b_xp.zip

[JCarter426 1,215]

Doesn't crash on loading models with animations! Looks good so far....

[DarthParametric 3,785]

I can get it to crash. Also crashes 1.0.5.

PLC_RakatHol-kotormax.mdl.7z

MDLOps compiles it and it works OK in-game.

Oh and something I realised with that model - it seems like KMax doesn't like alphakeys by themselves. I'm not sure if it is stripping them on import or on export, but any nodes with only alphakeys ended up blank, whereas those also that had pos/rot keys kept their alphakeys.

[bead-v 251]

55 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

I can get it to crash. Also crashes 1.0.5.

Whoa, crashes during ascii parsing!

Wow, where have you been hiding that model? There were three problems with it. Two were my mistakes:
1. mdledit didn't ignore tabs, so when you put tabs instead of spaces it treated them as (parts of) keywords and got all confused.
2. Then there was a case where I was resizing the bone array to the number of names instead of actual nodes. This was never a problem because you practically never get bones in placeables and doors (which is where those numbers mismatch), so hooray for this model!
3. The last one is the ascii format. One of the animations was missing nodes connecting the ones that were animated to the base. You fix this like so:

# ANIM ASCII
newanim on2off PLC_RakatHol
  length 0.0333333
  transtime 0.0
  animroot PLC_RakatHol
    node dummy PLC_RakatHol
      parent NULL
    endnode
    /************************************************* INSERTED
    node dummy cutscenedummy
      parent PLC_RakatHol
    endnode
    node dummy rootdummy
      parent cutscenedummy
    endnode
    node dummy torso_g
      parent rootdummy
    endnode
    node dummy torsoUpr_g
      parent torso_g
    endnode
    node dummy necklwr_g
      parent torsoUpr_g
    endnode
    node dummy neck_g
      parent necklwr_g
    endnode
    node dummy Hturn_g
      parent neck_g
    endnode
    node dummy head_g
      parent Hturn_g
    endnode
    node dummy REyeStalk_g
      parent head_g
    endnode
    /************************************************* END INSERT
    node dummy eyeRA
      parent REyeStalk_g
      alphakey
        0.0 0.5
		0.0333333 0.0
      endlist
    endnode	
    node dummy eyeRlid
      parent REyeStalk_g
      alphakey
        0.0 0.5
		0.0333333 0.0
      endlist
    endnode	
    node dummy eyeRlidLWR
      parent REyeStalk_g
      alphakey
        0.0 0.5
		0.0333333 0.0
      endlist
    endnode	

 

56 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

it seems like KMax doesn't like alphakeys by themselves

I'll check it out, but it's interesting cuz it's the same function handling all the controllers... we'll see

mdledit_v1.0.100b.zip

mdledit_v1.0.100b_xp.zip

[JCarter426 1,215]

4 minutes ago, bead-v said:

This was never a problem because you practically never get bones in placeables and doors (which is where those numbers mismatch), so hooray for this model!

Funny - I've used bones for placeable models. But MDLEdit did compile them in those cases, as far as I remember. This was a few versions ago, though.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

2 minutes ago, bead-v said:

Wow, where have you been hiding that model?

Well I only pieced it together in the last day or so, so I wouldn't say I have been hiding it as such.

I have another one for you though that is a bit older. If you recall the K1 end sequence area model issues, I can confirm that MDLEdit will now successfully load the area model itself, but it still crashes when loading the custom stunt model of the crowd. Right at the end though, after several minutes of processing.

DP_StuntCrowdDS_v3_Condensed-kotormax.mdl.7z

[ebmar 893]

Greetings, Masters!

I recently fiddling around with PLC_Statue2.mdl/mdx and PLC_Statue1.tpc; which are linked to the Statue of Ajunta Pall inside the Tomb of Ajunta Pall.

I encountered a glitch which I don't have any idea what's causing this to happen, but I believe was related to the model, which I believe this thread is the right place to address this matter. Apologize if I am wrong. 🙏

Spoiler

In short; the bump-map I have applied to the statue was re-setted after placing the sword. The texture stays the same, but I believe the bump-map was removed from the model.

Many thanks for considering this matter!

Edit: Needed files has been attached. [attachment_removed]

Edited January 6, 2019 by ebmar
Attachment removed as no further troubleshotting required

[bead-v 251]

6 hours ago, JCarter426 said:

Funny - I've used bones for placeable models. But MDLEdit did compile them in those cases, as far as I remember. This was a few versions ago, though.

The objects that end up in the pwk/dwk (the walkmesh itself, the use hooks and the parent hook) sometimes have their names listed in the .mdl, even though there are no nodes with those names in the model. It's not always though, and especially if you weren't using a walkmesh for them, you definitely successfuly avoided the issue.

 

6 hours ago, ebmar said:

placing the sword

First we need to figure out what that means. Is it an animation that plays, is the model exchange for another one....?

 

6 hours ago, DarthParametric said:

Right at the end though, after several minutes of processing. 

Yep, that model sure takes its time... anyway, I'm on it, I'll report back when I figure it out!

[JCarter426 1,215]

26 minutes ago, bead-v said:

The objects that end up in the pwk/dwk (the walkmesh itself, the use hooks and the parent hook) sometimes have their names listed in the .mdl, even though there are no nodes with those names in the model. It's not always though, and especially if you weren't using a walkmesh for them, you definitely successfuly avoided the issue. 

I wasn't. Good thing I wasn't, too, by the sound of it.

6 hours ago, ebmar said:

placing the sword

26 minutes ago, bead-v said:

First we need to figure out what that means. Is it an animation that plays, is the model exchange for another one....?

That's a good question. Normally, I would assume an animation, but if that were the case, I would really wonder why the problem would be happening. And in fact, it isn't. It's two different models: PLC_Statue2 doesn't have the sword and PLC_Statue3 has the sword.

Also, last time I played K1, the placement of the sword was bugged for me. It didn't appear on the dialogue node that said I placed the sword, but rather after the conversation was over. Which would be after I took the sword back, since it was in my inventory, and shouldn't appear on the statue. This is probably a scripting error rather than a modeling error, but maybe somebody will want to take a look at that.

[bead-v 251]

6 hours ago, JCarter426 said:

And in fact, it isn't. It's two different models: PLC_Statue2 doesn't have the sword and PLC_Statue3 has the sword.

Seems reasonable... I just find it weird that I don't see a sword on either model (looking at ebmar's pics).

[DarthParametric 3,785]

Could be the angle of the pic. This is PLC_Statue3:

[bead-v 251]

Ah yes, I think I see it now.

Anyway, @ebmar, do you know what to do to fix it?

[ebmar 893]

6 hours ago, JCarter426 said:

It's two different models: PLC_Statue2 doesn't have the sword and PLC_Statue3 has the sword.

 

57 minutes ago, bead-v said:

Seems reasonable... I just find it weird that I don't see a sword on either model (looking at ebmar's pics).

My bad! I'm taking the shot from the bad angle. 😂

36 minutes ago, DarthParametric said:

Could be the angle of the pic. This is PLC_Statue3:

Quote

 

Yes! From another angle it is confirmed that the statue uses different model with its before-and-after scene.

Spoiler

Quote

Anyway, ebmar, do you know what to do to fix it?

I believe checking the bump-map box to the particular model using the MDLEdit will fix the issue, I haven't actually did that but I am certain it is not far from the said process.

I am glad that in the end this glitch is not addressed to the failed process of MDLEdit.

Many thanks for the assistance @bead-v, @JCarter426 and @DarthParametric!

[DarthParametric 3,785]

I am getting a crash in-game with the NPC Rakata hologram during some dialogues (presumably when it calls certain animations). Initially I thought this was the same issue I had before when I tried compiling the model with an earlier MDLEdit beta, but it seems the MDLOps compiled version also crashes.

K1_NPC_Rakata_Hologram_Crashing.7z

Here's a save to test with (just access the computer to initiate the dialogue).

K1_Save_Rakata_Elder_Compound_Computer_Room.7z

It seems to reliably crash when pursing the "I want to know about the history of the Rakata" chain after choosing the player response "A plague?". I can't see the dialogue calling for any specific body animation for that line, so perhaps it is related to lip sync animations?

[JCarter426 1,215]

Hmm, it's a waste to use two placeable models for that statue, considering the placeable limit. It could be done with one animated model, and then you'd have an extra slot.

4 hours ago, DarthParametric said:

It seems to reliably crash when pursing the "I want to know about the history of the Rakata" chain after choosing the player response "A plague?". I can't see the dialogue calling for any specific body animation for that line, so perhaps it is related to lip sync animations?

That would be my guess. It might be crashing on specific phonemes used in emotions on those lines but not in the generic comment ones. I'd suggest removing the talk animation from your model to confirm if it's that, and then you could set up a supermodel copy of the original model with all but its talk animation stripped, perhaps... or figure out how to fix the talk animation. I imagine talkdummy might have to be baked and the objects you split linked to it again, but working with that sort of thing is hit or miss.

If it's any consolation, S_Male02 also has the talk animation and both TSLRCM and my supermodel fix edit it without causing such crashes, so this should be possible, in K2 at least. I've edited it in K1 for my Jedi robe/dancer outfit bone rig but that's had so many problems I'm not confident using that as an example of something that works.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

1 minute ago, JCarter426 said:

Hmm, it's a waste to use two placeable models for that statue, considering the placeable limit.

If you are talking about the plinth,  it's part of the same model. I'm not touching placeables.2da. I just edited the original model, deleted the VFX node and merged in the Rakatan.

[JCarter426 1,215]

Nah, I was still on the Ajunta Pall statue thing, sorry.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

Yeah I just realised you were talking about the sword thing. You are right that it could be done with an animated version by hiding the sword under the floor. That's what they already do with other placeables, like the Jedi captives on the Star Forge, so it's kind of suprising they didn't. Although I guess they could afford to be lazy. They had no need to worry about free placeables slots.

1 hour ago, JCarter426 said:

I'd suggest removing the talk animation from your model to confirm if it's that

Deleting the Talk animation got me a further line or two into that dialogue branch, but it still ended up crashing.

[JCarter426 1,215]

OK, um... I was going to try something but I wanted to see the crash first as a baseline... and neither the MDLOps nor MDLEdit version crashed. I went through the whole history of the Rakata dialogue tree.

Also, the hologram looked like this:

Spoiler

I don't know if that's normal or not.

[DarthParametric 3,785]

On 8/21/2018 at 12:59 AM, JCarter426 said:

neither the MDLOps nor MDLEdit version crashed

OK, so here's something bizarre. I was getting odd graphical glitches on Lehon, like all the polygons on the beach being outlined and the dirt texture inside the Elder's compound being weirdly offset and blurred. I was forcing AA in the nVidia control panel so I tried turning that off. Going back into the game, those problems were fixed. But that also coincided with the crashes. I just tried turning the forced AA on again. Testing again, I now longer get the weird graphical artefacts, and I also don't get any crashes....

On 8/21/2018 at 12:59 AM, JCarter426 said:

I don't know if that's normal or not. 

Yeah you are just lacking the textures.

 

Edit: Testing the NPC hologram on Kashyyyk, I am getting a crash right at the end of the dialogue as the Star Map animation plays. I don't get the crash with the vanilla hologram.  Here's a save if anyone wants to test it (same model posted above):

K1_Save_Kashyyyk_Star_Map.7z

Edit 2: So it seems like enabling the Disable Vertex Buffer Objects option in the INI prevents it from crashing. Now I need to figure out if the crash with that option disabled is being caused by the model, or if it's just the usual game being screwy on modern systems.

Edit 3: My guess is that enabling mesh alpha is causing the crash when VBOs are enabled. At the point of the crash, a script fires with destroys the NPC. The game tries to fade it out. For whatever reason fading works fine with VBOs disabled, but crashes with them enabled. I'm trying to find a way of taking MDLEdit/MDLOps out of the equation, but the vanilla model apparently lacks the controller data for alpha (I guess those only get added when alpha is <1?) which makes hex editing problematic, at least for me. Any thoughts @bead-v?

[bead-v 251]

On 8/20/2018 at 5:13 PM, DarthParametric said:

Any thoughts @bead-v?

First off, what's the model? There are other models where alpha is present even when it's 1.0, so it's a good question why it's gone there. Anyway, if it really is gone, maybe we could convert another controller to alpha for testing. I'm not sure whether you can do that with mdledit or not (without recompiling the model of course).

As for the big endgame model, mdledit keeps running out of memory, I'm trying various things to make it more efficient, but testing is really slow because of how long it takes to process that model before it crashes (it's even slower in debug mode). So yeah... don't have high hopes about this being solved soon is basically what I'm trying to say 😕

EDIT: Sorry, just saw you mentioned it's the same as above!
EDIT2: I was checking mesh nodes, nevermind, I'm stupid today.
EDIT3:

Okay, I took the vanilla model and added in only the alpha controller for the Head node. Only the changes necessary to accomodate the new controller were made, everything else is the same as vanilla. Will this be a good model for testing? @DarthParametric

c_holorakata_vanilla_alpha_v1.zip