Need help from all the great texture artists around here

[Kexikus 995]

A few months ago I had been working on a mod to replace all the low quality backdrops seen in TSL space scenes with higher resolution textures. And I actually finished the mod except for one backdrop and that's Telos as seen from space during the final battle.

 

Here is what it currently looks like:

 

 

The planet itself looks quite good I would say but Citadel station looks horrible. It's okay when seen from further away as seen in this screenshot:

 

 

but in the scene on the bridge of the republic ship, you see it from much closer (which doesn't make any sense, so I might actually end up changing that...) so I need it to look good in any case. And this is where I need help. I really suck at making textures from scratch so I need some help with creating Citadel station for this texture. Here's a link to what it looks like in vanilla for comparison.

[Malkior 476]

I'd say you're already halfway there. You'd just have to block out the squares and possibly add a bunch of pipes and gridwork to the sides to make it look like the station. To block out the squares, select and fill with 100% opacity on a new layer. If you have the station you've already made as its own separate layer, then change its layer to Overlay or Hard Light (depending what looks better) and place it above the block out layer.

[Kexikus 995]

Not sure if I understand your suggestion correctly. I made a new layer, selected the shape of my station and filled it with 100% opacity in grey, then I took the many layers that make up the station, merged them into one layer, placed it above my new layer and set it to Overlay/Hard Light. But all that did was that the entire station got brighter or darker depending on the color I used for the new layer. Maybe that's the point of this procedure, but if it's not please elaborate

 

Also, do you have a suggestion on how to efficiently create the pipes and the grid?

[DarthParametric 3,783]

The weird thing about that pic is it makes it look like the station is inside the planet's atmosphere. If you have the atmo clouds and glow as a separate layer, you need to move it under the station layer. Also maybe adjust the station position so it moves past the planet's surface outline, making it clearer that it is above it.

[JCarter426 1,214]

I had this problem as well. I've made 3D models of most of the game's planets, but I could never get Telos right either. Yours looks much better than any of my attempts, but it looks like you've run into the same problem I did with the station.

 

First, it looks a little flat. It's hard to make it have depth because of how small the height is relative to the width, but a little more drop shadow or emboss might help.

 

Second, it looks uniform. In the Bink videos, there are bits sticking out that are just scaffolding with nothing built on them, there are buildings noticeably larger than the ones around them, and there are red lights dispersed across the station. I think part of why it looks uniform is all the detailing sticks out so much, so if you add another layer for the larger buildings, and then one for control towers with the lights, you could tone down the contrast of the station layer so the outlines aren't as obvious. In the Bink video, most of the gridwork blurs together. Putting a scaffolding layer underneath might also help with the depth.

 

Another thing the Bink videos have are more prominent longitudinal lines... like the station was constructed from vertical strips.

 

And I agree about the atmosphere. It makes the station look translucent.

 

Great work so far, though. Really, it looks far better than mine did.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

You might want to add some lights to the station as well. It's looking good so far!

[Kexikus 995]

Thanks for the suggestions

 

The atmosphere thing: The station is actually not aligned with the planet, it's just really hard to see because the part that stands out is almost black just like the surroundings. And the atmosphere glow has to go further out as the station doesn't seem to be THAT high. The height that is suggested by the picture I linked seems unrealistic to me. But you're right about the clouds, those should probably be below the station.

 

I'll also try and figure out a way on how to reduce the uniformity by adding multiple layers of depth as well as some bright lights that can be seen from orbit. As a sidenote here: The red-ish lines on the night side of the station are supposed to be city lights, but I guess they're just to uniform and dense to properly create that effect, so I'll try and make less but better looking lights.

 

Thanks again for your input and please keep it coming^^

[JCarter426 1,214]

Thanks for the suggestions

 

The atmosphere thing: The station is actually not aligned with the planet, it's just really hard to see because the part that stands out is almost black just like the surroundings. And the atmosphere glow has to go further out as the station doesn't seem to be THAT high. The height that is suggested by the picture I linked seems unrealistic to me. But you're right about the clouds, those should probably be below the station.

 

I was primarily thinking of the clouds, yeah. Although the International Space Station is above the stratosphere, as you can see here.

 

 

 

I'll also try and figure out a way on how to reduce the uniformity by adding multiple layers of depth as well as some bright lights that can be seen from orbit. As a sidenote here: The red-ish lines on the night side of the station are supposed to be city lights, but I guess they're just to uniform and dense to properly create that effect, so I'll try and make less but better looking lights.

The lights I was referring to are the red ones that seem to be randomly distributed on control towers or some such, not just lights from buildings. You can see them pretty clearly in MalMov01.bik.

[Malkior 476]

Not sure if I understand your suggestion correctly. I made a new layer, selected the shape of my station and filled it with 100% opacity in grey, then I took the many layers that make up the station, merged them into one layer, placed it above my new layer and set it to Overlay/Hard Light. But all that did was that the entire station got brighter or darker depending on the color I used for the new layer. Maybe that's the point of this procedure, but if it's not please elaborate

 

Also, do you have a suggestion on how to efficiently create the pipes and the grid?

Sorry, Kex. I meant a darker color than just flat grey. What I could see is that your station layer was blending into the planet texture too much (like it was set to a 30% opacity on to of it; the clouds would be obscured by the station rather than on top of it), so the effect wasn't as pronounced. If you add a flat 100% opacity layer underneath it, it gives you more control over the contrast of your station.

 

Merging the other layers could have untold consequences if they're not set to "normal" layers, so that may take more tweaking. (I was under the impression that the station you had already done was only one layer...)

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

As an occasional artist, I'd say this looks pretty good. I think the only thing that's missing is some of those cross-hatching beams, near the edges of the station

[Kexikus 995]

 

I was primarily thinking of the clouds, yeah. Although the International Space Station is above the stratosphere, as you can see here.

 

Yeah, but the ISS is somewhat smaller than Citadel Station xD But yeah, it would certainly not be wrong to place it higher up but I think it looks better this way.

 

 

The lights I was referring to are the red ones that seem to be randomly distributed on control towers or some such, not just lights from buildings. You can see them pretty clearly in MalMov01.bik.

 

I'll try to add these. We'll see what happens^^

 

Sorry, Kex. I meant a darker color than just flat grey. What I could see is that your station layer was blending into the planet texture too much (like it was set to a 30% opacity on to of it; the clouds would be obscured by the station rather than on top of it), so the effect wasn't as pronounced. If you add a flat 100% opacity layer underneath it, it gives you more control over the contrast of your station.

 

Merging the other layers could have untold consequences if they're not set to "normal" layers, so that may take more tweaking. (I was under the impression that the station you had already done was only one layer...)

 

Well, the station merging into the planet texture was probably an effect created by the cloud layer above the station that gave the impression of a translucent station. But the station layer(s) is actually on 100% opacity already.

 

And I know that this merging can have unwanted effects but I think I can handle those if necessary (hopefully...)

[Malkior 476]

Yeah, but the ISS is somewhat smaller than Citadel Station xD But yeah, it would certainly not be wrong to place it higher up but I think it looks better this way.

 

 

I'll try to add these. We'll see what happens^^

 

 

Well, the station merging into the planet texture was probably an effect created by the cloud layer above the station that gave the impression of a translucent station. But the station layer(s) is actually on 100% opacity already.

 

And I know that this merging can have unwanted effects but I think I can handle those if necessary (hopefully...)

Ah, well, there's your problem. The clouds are all underneath the station in the actual level, as the station itself can't be in the atmosphere. That's totally up to you, though. A possible compromise to add a touch of realism could be to mask out the clouds from the flatter parts of the station and just to subtly have it overlap on the edges.

[Kexikus 995]

So, I tried to implement your suggestions. All that's missing now are the bright, blinking lights, but I'm still thinking about whether or not I want to animate them, so I'll add them later.

 

Let me know if you have any more suggestions.

 

[Malkior 476]

I think it looks awesome! Those blinking lights will possibly add a bit more scale to the station, but otherwise, it looks like a real photograph taken from miles away. I'm quite curious and excited for what you have in mind for the nebulae on Peragus or Iziz/Onderon during the space battle.

[DarthParametric 3,783]

I probably wouldn't bother with blinking lights, but you could put standard lights in on the dark side, fading them out as you graduate to the fully lit side.

[Sithspecter 909]

One idea that might work well is to place small "holes" in the structure on the less complete side where the planet shows through a bit. I'm not sure if that was in the original game or not, but it could help break up the pattern.

[Kexikus 995]

I think it looks awesome! Those blinking lights will possibly add a bit more scale to the station, but otherwise, it looks like a real photograph taken from miles away. I'm quite curious and excited for what you have in mind for the nebulae on Peragus or Iziz/Onderon during the space battle.

 

Thank you very much

I think I once posted a screenshot showing the new Onderon and Dxun backdrops in the Picture of the Week section, so you might want to check there. The nebula can definetly already be seen in my HQ Stars and Nebulae mod and will stay this way. I do have some more ideas for Peragus and the final battle on Telos though, but those will require model editing and I've never done that. So I will need to figure that out first^^

 

I probably wouldn't bother with blinking lights, but you could put standard lights in on the dark side, fading them out as you graduate to the fully lit side.

 

We'll see how the lights turn out. But the standard lights are already there^^ Not sure if they were just too dark for you to see or if they're just done so badly that they're not recognizable as city lights. So let me know please.

 

One idea that might work well is to place small "holes" in the structure on the less complete side where the planet shows through a bit. I'm not sure if that was in the original game or not, but it could help break up the pattern.

 

In the original, the whole station is only a grid where the planet is seen through but the grid is small enough that you only see this during the close up cutscenes (landing and take-off) while the station looks solid from space. Still, I might give it a shot. I'm just not sure if the holes won't end up being unrealistically big.

[DarthParametric 3,783]

We'll see how the lights turn out. But the standard lights are already there^^ Not sure if they were just too dark for you to see or if they're just done so badly that they're not recognizable as city lights. So let me know please.

Ah, the red stuff. I thought it was like some sort of specular effect. Yeah, maybe change that to white and see what it looks like.

 

If you could limit emissive with a mask like in a modern engine, that would make things easy as I'd just say crank up the self-illum on them. But it's not really practical with the way Odyssey defines it per mesh. You could try editing the model to add the lights as an additional mesh, but I don't know how well that would go (I haven't had much luck trying to directly alter level models).

[Malkior 476]

Hmm.. I'm reminded, do you think you could fix the actual planet backdrop behind the Citadel Station girder-work? (The bright blue and green blotches with edges or orangish red)

[Kexikus 995]

@Malkior: Not really sure what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?

[DarthParametric 3,783]

TEL_Plan from 201TEL15:

 

 

It's part of the backdrop you see outside the windows of the Telos modules.

[Kexikus 995]

Oh, I thought he was talking about my picture xD

 

Yeah, I can fix that and now that I know about it I will also do so.

[Malkior 476]

@Malkior: Not really sure what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?

Its difficult to describe. Basically, outside the window, you see a bunch of pipes and such (in vanilla, they look very very blurry) however, behind that texture is a super zoomed in map of the planet's surface (I believe it's actually the planet texture stretched out really far) You can see it if you look outside the windows on Citadel Station in Vanilla.

[Kexikus 995]

Now I also know why I never noticed that texture: In Joraks Telos Overhaul, the pipes texture has no alpha channel, so the planet is not visible below. But now that I've seen it I will definetly fix it