Star Wars Episode VII Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

[Doctor Evil 51]

1) By far the biggest is that this did not seem to mesh well with the general "Star Wars-y" atmosphere that I had in my brain after six movies and two KOTOR games. I think this is a more legitimate feeling since I actually watched both episodes V and VI less than a week ago. In the prequels, I felt like Padme didn't fit into the Star Wars universe; here, I felt the same way about most of the characters. With some parts especially (especially a number of sequences featuring Finn), it seemed a lot more like people from our world getting to be in the Star Wars universe -- which, admittedly it was. The situation wasn't helped much by the returnees, since they generally looked and felt different from themselves in the OT -- although I can chalk this up to the actors being decades older.

 

I've seen this by some people and this just makes no sense... Franchises change, but this is just subjective

 

 

2) This had better be the last Star Wars movie that culminates in a space battle-type scene to destroy the planet-destroying device. It was kind of old after the second time (in ROTJ) and my reaction this time is basically "really, you couldn't think of anything different?"

 

This didn't feel like A New Hope all over again to me, though, but I did notice parallels. But the overall feel is totally different for me. Again, I think that's largely due to the characters.

 

This is my sentiment here along with a lot of us who enjoyed the movie, we're done with having superweapons after this one, but I think for the movie it didn't detract from it. Maybe it's because the last time Star wars did this was 30 years and 3 movies ago

 

 

3) They killed off exactly one major character -- and it had to be Han Solo? The iconic character who also, I might add, was doing a heck of a lot more than any other returnees? I could have taken it better if they'd taken advantage of the great opportunities to kill off Finn, or Poe, or Kylo, but it was just Han. I also would have liked it more if Han's death was a bit more blunt -- that would have taken some of the sting away from it.

 

I hope that Luke sees a fair bit of action next film. I did note the irony that Han, who in A New Hope was mostly scoffing at Obi-Wan, ended up filling a very similar role to him in this film, rather than Luke, who would have seemed to be the logical choice for that role.

 

Characters die, this movie was meant as a passing of the torch to the new generation. You don't kill the mainstays of the new trilogy in the first movie.

 

As for the role passage, Luke is going to be a bit similar to how Yoda was, I'm interested in seeing how that dynamic works. IMO Han's similarity to obi-wan is only because he tells them of the force and then dies. That's it, and it's fitting for him because he was the one who was like "force is bullshit" in the original movie, it shows how much his character has changed.

 

 

4) Seeing any familiar planets, rather than just new ones similar to those, would have been nice. Instead we just get a bunch of new ones, including those that look similar enough to Tatooine and Coruscant that I though they were those when I first saw them. I also wished that more planet names could have been given. In particular, when the bad guys blew up the Republic, I was thinking "did they just blow up Coruscant?" It would have been nice to not have to come home and consult Wookieepedia to find out.

 

They said in the movie it was the Hosnian System, stated when they get to the resistance base. I'm fine with there being no tatooine or coruscant considering how they were in nearly every single movie.

 

5) Not enough exposition/too much confusion in some parts. In particular the Empire wreckage all over Jakku. Might be slightly unrelated, but I also thought that the Resistance was incredibly stupid to stay on the planet that the First Order was going to blow up and not evacuate.

 

A. The movie does a lot of visual story-telling, which was enough IMO to get a feel of what's been going on. You don't always need exposition. I will say this, however, the opening crawl could have had a bit more detail on the state of the Republic.

 

B. The same argument could be made for the Rebellion on staying on Yavin IV, just because we saw them re-unite there doesn't mean they aren't shortly going to leave.

 

 

6) Kylo Ren. As far as I'm concerned, there is not a single redeeming feature about him. All the other bad guys in Star Wars were at least cool in some way; Palpatine's absolute genius for most of the saga, for instance. Instead, to me, Kylo just seemed kind of lame. Some specific things against him:

a) The way he killed Han Solo, obviously. Might have been better if it wasn't Han, of course.

b. I didn't like the under-the-mask voice at all. It reminded me of some of the voicing from M4-78 that sounded more amateurish.

c) Rather than controlling and using his anger like the Sith, he just crazily bashes stuff with his lightsaber. That makes him seem more lame to me.

d) He has to force pull a dude to his hand to choke him instead of doing the Darth Vader choke.

e) You are never EVER going to persuade me that his lightsaber is anywhere near as cool as the original/"real" lightsaber.

I wish he had died at the end of the movie a la Darth Maul. Probably one of my least favorite Star Wars characters ever. I get the feeling he's going to be redeemed at some point, which will make some parts of this movie (killing Solo comes to mind) worse for me.

 

Does he need to be redeeming? If anything, the movie is showing the opposite of Vader's transition. He's probably not going to be redeemed, if anything he'll be full dark from here on out.

 

a) Please tell me how? From what I'm seeing, this is just you upset because Han died (no offense). Him killing somebody else wouldn't have had half the effect that Han's death had, considering he was his father, and an estranged one at that.

b. that's subjective, but I digress

c) He's not a sith, atleast not yet. Snoke himself says he needs to complete his training, if anything he's a neophyte. Also explains why he gets his but whooped by Rey.

d) That's a choice, not a need.

e)...ok?

And what purpose would that serve? It would do the same thing to Darth Maul, terribly under-used. Like I said, you don't kill the mainstays of the trilogy in the first film.

 

 

7) Crossing into minor details at this point... It would have been way epic for Wedge to come back, since we were having another battle to destroy the planet-destroying machine. (Although looking it up, I see that it was the actor's fault, so I guess this one doesn't count.)

 

I laughed when he said it would be "beneath him" what a joke

 

 

8) Some of Rey's abilities seemed to manifest quite quickly, especially the Force-related ones. It didn't really bother me much though, and if she does turn out to be offspring of Luke (and whom?) then it makes perfect sense to me.

 

I think she's a kenobi, but as for her abilities we don't actually know the full story behind Rey. She could have had training and not known it, and I'm sure this will be explained in the next movie

 

 

9) Similarly, it seemed slightly amazing that Finn didn't slice himself in half during his first bout with the lightsaber. Again, though, it didn't bother me that much.

 

Don't understand why he would... it's a freaking sword that's made of lasers. He's had training in melee clearly thanks to every storm trooper having that baton

 

 

10) Is there a requirement for every movie to have a romance or something? Was it really necessary?

 

Where the hell is the romance other than Han and Leia's rekindling? Seriously? Rey kissing Finn on the head does not equate to romance

 

QUOTE (since there's apparently a limit?) "I know this looks like a lot of complaints, but I did enjoy the movie overall. It was a good movie, I think. Just had some flaws and wasn't the continuation of the Star Wars saga that I was hoping for. Admins, sorry if this post went too long."

 

I'm sure you did, I just wanted to address them for you

 

And as for it not being the continuation... And let's face it the new star wars is not going to be a visual representation of our head-canon anymore... It's new stuff.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Not going to bother addressing most of these back, since they're obviously subjective things.

 

Does he need to be redeeming? If anything, the movie is showing the opposite of Vader's transition. He's probably not going to be redeemed, if anything he'll be full dark from here on out.

 

a) Please tell me how? From what I'm seeing, this is just you upset because Han died (no offense). Him killing somebody else wouldn't have had half the effect that Han's death had, considering he was his father, and an estranged one at that.

b. that's subjective, but I digress

c) He's not a sith, atleast not yet. Snoke himself says he needs to complete his training, if anything he's a neophyte. Also explains why he gets his but whooped by Rey.

d) That's a choice, not a need.

e)...ok?

And what purpose would that serve? It would do the same thing to Darth Maul, terribly under-used. Like I said, you don't kill the mainstays of the trilogy in the first film.

 

By redeeming qualities, I meant something that made the character somehow positively contribute to my viewing experience (I know that sounded a bit weird, but I couldn't word it any better). Han's death was fine as a dramatic moment or whatnot, but it's also quite tragic to lose him, and Kylo killing him in that fashion makes me dislike him (Kylo) more. I simply don't enjoy Kylo Ren. At all. Snoke at least seems like he might be sort of a "cool" villain.

 

I might point out that if they die in the first film, they're probably not going to be considered mainstays (though I don't know if that would apply to Obi-Wan or not). I suppose Finn probably has some important role to fill, though it's hard to tell what at present. Kylo's death would work fine, though, as he wouldn't necessarily (at least IMO) need to be an essential member of the First Order for Snoke and could have theoretically simply been the big bad for just the first movie (similar to Darth Maul and Grand Moff Tarkin in their trilogies). But I do think that they're planning a redemption arc for him, as long as Leia stays alive. I think it would have been just fine if Poe had actually died when he seemed to.

 

 

 

Where the hell is the romance other than Han and Leia's rekindling? Seriously? Rey kissing Finn on the head does not equate to romance

 

I dunno, I guess that's just the general impression I got. Could theoretically just be me expecting one -- but I'll go on the record as saying that there will be more in that direction as the trilogy continues.

 

 

I think she's a kenobi,

 

When did Obi-Wan ever get romantically involved with anyone, especially as he was a Jedi back when marriage was generally forbidden among them? Not to mention the fact that he was already quite old thirty years before and Rey is certainly not very old.

 

That was another very minor issue I had -- the similarity between Rey and Ren's names can make things confusing when reading about them.

 

 

 

Don't understand why he would... it's a freaking sword that's made of lasers. 

 

I think that came from something I read in the KOTOR manual about how those not trained in their use would be just as likely to hurt themselves. Which then begs the completely unrelated question of why Sherruk was using them...

 

 

 

IMO Han's similarity to obi-wan is only because he tells them of the force and then dies.

 

More than just telling them of the Force, he's basically the mentor character here, though perhaps not quite as much as Obi-Wan. And he's also killed by someone formerly very close who is now the dark Force-user serving only the big boss (although Obi-Wan actually meant to do that, but that's not the point). EDIT: Both also happened to be my favorite characters from their respective movies, although Han might be so partially because he dies and we don't get to see any more of him.

 

EDIT: I finally remembered the last, very very small point that bugged me: What the heck happened to Luke's green lightsaber that he made himself? Of course if he still has it and that's shown next movie, then that will be all right.

 

ONE MORE EDIT (I wish I could double-post): 

 

 

I'm fine with there being no tatooine or coruscant considering how they were in nearly every single movie.

I wasn't specifically referring to Tatooine and Coruscant as much as any planet that wasn't invented for this movie. Plus Coruscant didn't even show up in the original trilogy.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Remembered one other annoyance in the movie, which is the sound effects they added when somebody did something with the Force. Would have preferred to not have that. Not a major issue, though.

[newbiemodder 37]

Here are my two theories on Rey---IF she is part of the Skywalker family tree.

 

1. She is the daughter of Han and Leia. However, Han didn't know about her. Han and Leia could have been separated during the pregnancy and Leia hid her existence from him. This would account for Leia's intense hug of Rey. It also covers the possible father figure feeling Rey had for Han in their brief meeting.

 

or

 

2. Since Luke/Anakin's lightsaber was recovered,....so was Luke's hand. Rey was created from Luke's genetic material. if I remember correctly, this was part of the old Timothy Zahn triology books. This would allow Rey to be Luke's "daughter" without introducing some random new female love interest.

 

Discuss amongst yourselves.........

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

In the meantime, some parallels popped out up in my head...

 

We have a new set of heroes start on a new saga, but with some old familiar faces and using the exact same freighter as before. One of the primary antagonists is skilled at using the Force to probe others' minds and find stuff out. At the end, the female (canonically, at least) protagonist goes off to find the main Jedi protagonist from the original adventure.

Sound familiar?

 

There's also the part about the last of the Jedi.

 

 

 

 

 

On a different tack, as my brother pointed out, why can't these movies ever have the good guys and bad guys on equal footing instead of the good guys always facing seemingly impossible odds?

[Doctor Evil 51]

This is pointless.

 

You realize he's messing with you right?

 

Here are my two theories on Rey---IF she is part of the Skywalker family tree.

 

1. She is the daughter of Han and Leia. However, Han didn't know about her. Han and Leia could have been separated during the pregnancy and Leia hid her existence from him. This would account for Leia's intense hug of Rey. It also covers the possible father figure feeling Rey had for Han in their brief meeting.

 

or

 

2. Since Luke/Anakin's lightsaber was recovered,....so was Luke's hand. Rey was created from Luke's genetic material. if I remember correctly, this was part of the old Timothy Zahn triology books. This would allow Rey to be Luke's "daughter" without introducing some random new female love interest.

 

Discuss amongst yourselves.........

 

Still think she's a kenobi. Remember, in the Clone Wars, it shows how Kenobi got intimate with Satine a lot before Anakin came into the picture, and they are depicted as somewhat scorned lovers. I'm sure that she probably hid it when Kenobi chose to stick with the order rather than her.

[Haveayap 127]

You realize he's messing with you right?

No I am not, I was always an empire supporter... I prefer the empire. At the end of the day, both sides wanted peace among other things (Which is why Sidious created the deathstar, to keep all systems in check and without conflict), its just Sidious didn't care about the means to achieve it unlike the rebels (who have failed because the same war is still going on after 30yrs)

 

 

Still think she's a kenobi. Remember, in the Clone Wars, it shows how Kenobi got intimate with Satine a lot before Anakin came into the picture, and they are depicted as somewhat scorned lovers. I'm sure that she probably hid it when Kenobi chose to stick with the order rather than her.

 

IDT they will make her a Kenobi, it takes alot away from Kenobi's established character and IDT he would have risked having a child no matter how much he loved Satine. If anything, she has more of a chance of being a child of Kanan or Ezra (Who I still wish to see them tie into the new trilogy somehow, whether or not they have a descendant (like Rey) or maybe an appearance). I am hoping she is just some random chick who may have been Lukes apprentice at sometime before Kylos betrayal

[Doctor Evil 51]

IDT they will make her a Kenobi, it takes alot away from Kenobi's established character and IDT he would have risked having a child no matter how much he loved Satine. If anything, she has more of a chance of being a child of Kanan or Ezra (Who I still wish to see them tie into the new trilogy somehow, whether or not they have a descendant (like Rey) or maybe an appearance). I am hoping she is just some random chick who may have been Lukes apprentice at sometime before Kylos betrayal

 

I was hoping Kylo Renn's identity would have been kept secret till the next movie or episode 9 to reveal that he is..... Ezra. Too bad, because that would have been a wonderful tie in. Still, I'm ok with how it turned out, but it'd be nice if the galaxy could move on from the skywalker drama

 

 

No I am not, I was always an empire supporter... I prefer the empire. At the end of the day, both sides wanted peace among other things (Which is why Sidious created the deathstar, to keep all systems in check and without conflict), its just Sidious didn't care about the means to achieve it unlike the rebels (who have failed because the same war is still going on after 30yrs)

 

ALL HAIL LORD SIDIOUS.

 

TBH, if you think about it, what was the real reason that the rebellion started? I mean were things THAT bad under the empire? Destroying planets aside (which occurred as a message like nagasaki and hiroshima to the rebels) I read that the empire was pretty good. Maintained peace, had a decent military corps that was worth joining and taught you a lot, levelled out the economy, etc. We didn't really see how evil they were until they destroyed Alderaan and tortured Leia

[Haveayap 127]

 

ALL HAIL LORD SIDIOUS.

 

TBH, if you think about it, what was the real reason that the rebellion started? I mean were things THAT bad under the empire? Destroying planets aside (which occurred as a message like nagasaki and hiroshima to the rebels) I read that the empire was pretty good. Maintained peace, had a decent military corps that was worth joining and taught you a lot, levelled out the economy, etc. We didn't really see how evil they were until they destroyed Alderaan and tortured Leia

Exactly, Sidious even started demilitarizing much of the empire and went from Advanced clones to normal civilians (which provided many jobs for locals in the outer rim as well)... That was the explanation for the reason why their normal weapons were a downgrade from TCW aswell (It was stated in one of the Kanan comics). And many of the bad things that the empire were portrayed as doing were there before the empire was established (and lets be honest, much of the senate in the republic were involved in many of these bad things that the empire were shown doing in the OT, the senate wouldn't even help Naboo when they were being invaded by the Trade Federation. IDT the empire would allow that to happen) Also, it had been established that the Republic was already pretty corrupt. from the senate to the jedi

 

 

I was hoping Kylo Renn's identity would have been kept secret till the next movie or episode 9 to reveal that he is..... Ezra. Too bad, because that would have been a wonderful tie in. Still, I'm ok with how it turned out, but it'd be nice if the galaxy could move on from the skywalker drama

I was hoping Kylo would be Ezra as well, theirs still a possibility that Kanan or Ezra are Snoke though. I do like Kanans character alot, the marvel comics have portrayed him brilliantly. I still feel as though they wouldnt have SW rebels around unless it tied into the films somehow.

[Doctor Evil 51]

Exactly, Sidious even started demilitarizing much of the empire and went from Advanced clones to normal civilians (which provided many jobs for locals in the outer rim as well)... That was the explanation for the reason why their normal weapons were a downgrade from TCW aswell (It was stated in one of the Kanan comics). And many of the bad things that the empire were portrayed as doing were there before the empire was established (and lets be honest, much of the senate in the republic were involved in many of these bad things that the empire were shown doing in the OT, the senate wouldn't even help Naboo when they were being invaded by the Trade Federation. IDT the empire would allow that to happen) Also, it had been established that the Republic was already pretty corrupt. from the senate to the jedi

 

 

 

I was hoping Kylo would be Ezra as well, theirs still a possibility that Kanan or Ezra are Snoke though. I do like Kanans character alot, the marvel comics have portrayed him brilliantly. I still feel as though they wouldnt have SW rebels around unless it tied into the films somehow.

 

Ehh.... I don't see that happening, I still think Snoke is going to turn out to be a re-incarnation of Plageuis. If not, I'd love to see how this would be done, especially since the alternative is some random evil dude popping out of no-where

[Haveayap 127]

 

See... hes a great fellow

 

 

Ehh.... I don't see that happening, I still think Snoke is going to turn out to be a re-incarnation of Plageuis. If not, I'd love to see how this would be done, especially since the alternative is some random evil dude popping out of no-where

There was one interesting theory I read about Snoke being Kylo Ren from the future. He had photos comparing the scars that Kylo received in TFA to some of the scars on Snokes face and they are really similar in shape (surprisingly). Although I think SW fans would be outraged if this was the case

[Doctor Evil 51]

There was one interesting theory I read about Snoke being Kylo Ren from the future. He had photos comparing the scars that Kylo received in TFA to some of the scars on Snokes face and they are really similar in shape (surprisingly). Although I think SW fans would be outraged if this was the case

 

Dear god... time travel in Star Wars. That's a new one, I don't think we've seen that at all in any Star Wars, EU or otherwise, but I think it's one we'd all like to avoid unless it's done right, otherwise you end up looking like Star Trek: Voyager

[Haveayap 127]

 

Dear god... time travel in Star Wars. That's a new one, I don't think we've seen that at all in any Star Wars, EU or otherwise, but I think it's one we'd all like to avoid unless it's done right, otherwise you end up looking like Star Trek: Voyager

I know, itd be interesting if implemented well... But I think many people would be outraged

 

 

Also... technically, Vader and Sidious wern't the ones who blew up Alderaan (Vader actually despised the death star), it was Tarkin's call alone that destroyed Alderaan

[Doctor Evil 51]

Also... technically, Vader and Sidious wern't the ones who blew up Alderaan (Vader actually despised the death star), it was Tarkin's call alone that destroyed Alderaan

 

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

 

Plus he practically was Tarkin's ***** through A New Hope.

 

Anyway, we're de-railing the thread ._.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

I think that came from something I read in the KOTOR manual about how those not trained in their use would be just as likely to hurt themselves. Which then begs the completely unrelated question of why Sherruk was using them...

He was collecting them, not using them.

 

But yeah, positively sure Finn is the first non-Jedi that used a lightsaber aside from the mechanically enhanced (Grievous, and he was horrible with them). Which is jarring to me too.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

He was collecting them, not using them.

 

But yeah, positively sure Finn is the first non-Jedi that used a lightsaber aside from the mechanically enhanced (Grievous, and he was horrible with them). Which is jarring to me too.

 

Evidently I need another playthrough of Kotor...

 

It just looked a couple of times like he was going to slice himself in half and I commented on that during the movie. It wasn't really a complaint.

[Sith Holocron 2,478]

But yeah, positively sure Finn is the first non-Jedi that used a lightsaber aside from the mechanically enhanced (Grievous, and he was horrible with them). Which is jarring to me too.

Then how did Han Solo cut open the Taun Taun?

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Need to rewatch ESB I guess (oh, the horror XD). But just stabbing stuff is different than actually fighting with it.

[Eauxps I. Fourgott 81]

Need to rewatch ESB I guess (oh, the horror XD). But just stabbing stuff is different than actually fighting with it.

 

Agreed. It didn't exactly take a lot of skill to cut a hole in something, and Han wasn't exactly wildly swinging it around.

[Doctor Evil 51]

He was collecting them, not using them.

 

But yeah, positively sure Finn is the first non-Jedi that used a lightsaber aside from the mechanically enhanced (Grievous, and he was horrible with them). Which is jarring to me too.

 

No, because Pre-Vizla used the darksaber in Clone Wars, it pretty much shows that anyone can use them, because they are just swords with laser beams (hue hue austin powers reference)

 

I don't get how people come up with this notion that lightsabers require special powers to use, where at all was it said that non-jedi can't use them very well? If anything, they just prefer blasters because you can only be GOOD with a lightsaber if you have the force because that helps you block blaster bolts.

[Haveayap 127]

He was collecting them, not using them.

 

But yeah, positively sure Finn is the first non-Jedi that used a lightsaber aside from the mechanically enhanced (Grievous, and he was horrible with them). Which is jarring to me too.

Well no Finn isnt actually. in the Star wars comics, Han and Chewie (I was going to add Leia to the list, but she is force sensitive so yea, It could be argued that Han is force sensitive aswell, it has been hinted in some of the EU and disneys canon) use a lightsaber while on Nar Shadda trying to rescue Luke from some Jedi item collecting crime lord... They weren't as great as Luke with one, but they could slice and dice a few people up. The crime lords main guard wasn't force sensitive either and he was pretty efficient with a Light saber from studying Jedi Holocron's (He even taught Luke a few things while Luke was the crime lords prisoner)

[Box 8]

I watched this movie again with my father. The pacing was easier to follow on the second watch. I also realized that I really like the opening. The movie has a lot of potential when Rey and Finn leave Jakku and I really like the Falcon vs the two TIE Fighters. It's definitely easier to process all of what's going on up to that point during the second watch. Unfortunately after that, I just can't get into it as much. It's disappointing because I think there was a lot of potential, like it could have been the best Star Wars movie or at least on par with Empire.

[Markus Ramikin 107]

It's not as horrid as the prequels, but the writing is full of stupid.

So yeah. The Millenium Falcon discarded like garbage, just standing there, unguarded, with no security or  even closed doors, and it just so happens to be fuelled and running, perfectly flight- and combat-ready. Realistically, it would have been stolen long before the movie gets there.

Then they just so happen to get found by Han and Chewie.

Then Han's contact just so happens to have Luke's lightsaber in her possession.

All this stuff is in there not because the plot of this movie needs it in any way whatsoever - you could cut out Han and the Falcon and all you'd really need is some different way for Rey to get a lightsaber before her fight with Kylo. It's there because it was in the previous movie, it's familiar to the fans, and they needed to shoehorn it in somehow. But Han is not important.

And the worst part? I can EASILY fix that so that they become integral plot elements and don't offend the viewer's intelligence. Make it so that actually Han is the only person who knows where Luke went. (Maybe Luke told him, or maybe Han was crafty and managed to figure it out, but Luke made him promise not to tell Leia and others). Or if not Han, then R2, similarly to Revan-T3, and R2 is with Han. And the device the little ball droid was carrying is actually a tracking code for the Millenium Falcon, so that the Resistance can find Han/R2 and ask them where Luke is. There you go, the Falcon and its crew are suddenly important and don't feel shoehorned.

Then there's the notion of draining a star into a planet as fuel for a weapon... no. Just no. Does anyone writing this have any idea how much bigger a star is compared to a planet?

As a minor point (which shouldn't be minor, but compared to the idiocy of the Starkiller weapon it's nothing), Kylo Ren is a trained and experienced Darkside user who's successfully defeated several Jedi apprentices. Finn is just a soldier, and fighting Kylo was his second or third time wielding a lightsaber. There is no way in the universe he should have landed a hit. It should have been Vader-vs-Luke-in-Cloud-City except squared; even wounded, Kylo would toy with him a little then injure him. Even Finn's successfully using the lightsaber against the stormtrooper with that funky weapon should have been explained somehow ("Let's hope my vibrosword training holds up with this"), other than "main character powers" that is.

For that matter, Rey defeating Kylo is also unsatisfying, for the same reason why Luke defeating Vader in Cloud City would have been. It took Luke frikkin' Skywalker 3 movies to get good enough to take on Vader.

If they needed Rey to win (which they didn't: they could have her lose, then before he kills her, Kylo loses consciousness from blood loss, or Finn shoots him in the back), then they should have played up Kylo's injury, show us his vision swimming, like he's barely clinging to consciousness. At this point, why is Kylo an impressive villain again? And does something like "Jedi training" and "combat experience" mean anything?

 

 

 

BB-8 with that scene on the thumbs up though got me, it was great,

You mean the middle finger?

[Doctor Evil 51]

It's not as horrid as the prequels, but the writing is full of stupid.

 

So yeah. The Millenium Falcon discarded like garbage, just standing there, unguarded, with no security or  even closed doors, and it just so happens to be fuelled and running, perfectly flight- and combat-ready. Realistically, it would have been stolen long before the movie gets there.

 

If it's garbage, then why would it be guarded? Second of all, the falcon was regarded as garbage by Luke in ANH, so there. It wasn't perfectly considering that it nearly crashed a couple times due to dust collecting in its engines. Second of all, I can guarantee that the owner of that shop probably kept it fueled in case he needed to make a hasty escape. It's not that hard to open the doors since there probably is a switch on the outside

 

 

Then they just so happen to get found by Han and Chewie.

 

Welcome to plot development 101, Luke and Obi-wan just so happened to run into han and chewie in A new Hope

 

 

Then Han's contact just so happens to have Luke's lightsaber in her possession.

 

That's a plot question that will probably be answered later, but these "just so happened" questions aren't special to this movie but pretty much all of star wars. Why did Luke just so happen to crash next to yoda's house on Dagobah? Why did the Red R2 unit that Owen bought so happen to blow up so R2 could go with 3p0?

 

 

All this stuff is in there not because the plot of this movie needs it in any way whatsoever - you could cut out Han and the Falcon and all you'd really need is some different way for Rey to get a lightsaber before her fight with Kylo. It's there because it was in the previous movie, it's familiar to the fans, and they needed to shoehorn it in somehow. But Han is not important.

 

Really? How so? How would Rey know to go to Maz's planet considering she doesn't even know it exists? BB-8 would take them to the resistance system, but she wouldn't find the lightsaber

 

 

And the worst part? I can EASILY fix that so that they become integral plot elements and don't offend the viewer's intelligence. Make it so that actually Han is the only person who knows where Luke went. (Maybe Luke told him, or maybe Han was crafty and managed to figure it out, but Luke made him promise not to tell Leia and others). Or if not Han, then R2, similarly to Revan-T3, and R2 is with Han. And the device the little ball droid was carrying is actually a tracking code for the Millenium Falcon, so that the Resistance can find Han/R2 and ask them where Luke is. There you go, the Falcon and its crew are suddenly important and don't feel shoehorned.

 

... ugh. Han was integral to the plot because he was one of the reasons Ben fell to the dark side, not to mention the reason he probably fell further. Han and Luke probably weren't on the best of terms since Han probably blamed him for his sons fall, why would he tell HIM of all people where he went. Second of all, why would Han just let Luke stay where he is without going to check up on him, AND if Han was really the only one to know where he is then it would have been easier for the First Order to just nab him and laugh as they interrogate him. AS for R2, he was with leia, so yeah.

 

 

Then there's the notion of draining a star into a planet as fuel for a weapon... no. Just no. Does anyone writing this have any idea how much bigger a star is compared to a planet?

 

This is Star Wars, not Interstellar or 2001. If you're looking for scientific accuracy, you're looking in the wrong place considering the very first movie had laser blast sounds in space and that lightsabers are about as practical as that, or that even a moon-sized space station is able to travel nearly as fast as a ship as small as the millenium Falcon. I'll admit it was a bit dumb, but I refer to my previous point

 

 

As a minor point (which shouldn't be minor, but compared to the idiocy of the Starkiller weapon it's nothing), Kylo Ren is a trained and experienced Darkside user who's successfully defeated several Jedi apprentices. Finn is just a soldier, and fighting Kylo was his second or third time wielding a lightsaber. There is no way in the universe he should have landed a hit. It should have been Vader-vs-Luke-in-Cloud-City except squared; even wounded, Kylo would toy with him a little then injure him. Even Finn's successfully using the lightsaber against the stormtrooper with that funky weapon should have been explained somehow ("Let's hope my vibrosword training holds up with this"), other than "main character powers" that is.

 

*sigh* Kylo was wounded, and he was inexperienced because Snoke clearly says "It's time to complete his training." He wasn't a full sith, rather a dark jedi wannabe. Second, all stormtroopers carry that energy baton, which means Finn probably would have had training with it. Counts as a melee weapon. Maybe you should pay attention more to the movie. Finn barely did much as he ended up getting his arse kicked anyway

 

 

For that matter, Rey defeating Kylo is also unsatisfying, for the same reason why Luke defeating Vader in Cloud City would have been. It took Luke frikkin' Skywalker 3 movies to get good enough to take on Vader.

If they needed Rey to win (which they didn't: they could have her lose, then before he kills her, Kylo loses consciousness from blood loss, or Finn shoots him in the back), then they should have played up Kylo's injury, show us his vision swimming, like he's barely clinging to consciousness. At this point, why is Kylo an impressive villain again? And does something like "Jedi training" and "combat experience" mean anything?

 

Again... Renn isn't a full sith. But then again you're forgetting we barely know Rey's background at all. You're jumping to conclusions when you're leaving out a ton of possibilities, like maybe she was trained and she didn't know it? Why is she having flashbacks about the Jedi getting killed when the movie doesn't say she was there? Or, Why do you think she kept with a staff all those years on Jakku? Don't you think THAT might have helped?

 

 

You mean the middle finger?

 

Never thought of it that way

[Haveayap 127]

If it's garbage, then why would it be guarded? Second of all, the falcon was regarded as garbage by Luke in ANH, so there. It wasn't perfectly considering that it nearly crashed a couple times due to dust collecting in its engines. Second of all, I can guarantee that the owner of that shop probably kept it fueled in case he needed to make a hasty escape. It's not that hard to open the doors since there probably is a switch on the outside

 

 

Welcome to plot development 101, Luke and Obi-wan just so happened to run into han and chewie in A new Hope

 

 

That's a plot question that will probably be answered later, but these "just so happened" questions aren't special to this movie but pretty much all of star wars. Why did Luke just so happen to crash next to yoda's house on Dagobah? Why did the Red R2 unit that Owen bought so happen to blow up so R2 could go with 3p0?

 

Agh... there are no coincidences, there is only the force