[WIP] Recruit Dark Side Juhani

[Kexikus 995]

Then maybe leave Juhani untrained and thinking she killed her master. Actually, training won't make much sense anyway as before the Levisthan your kbowledge about Sith powers is very limited and after the Leviathan, if your last planet is Korriban, you've got an option to say that you know about the dark side more than Uthar, but you don't remember. So, being lore-friendly, you don't remember much about the dark side powers, so you cannot teacxh Juhani.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I guess I'll not have the training then for the following reasons: Lore wise you don't have enough knowledge about the dark side to teach her. None of the other party members can be trained in any way so it stays consistent. And the technical implementation would be less than ideal.

 

This is a valid point. 

Also, how Darkside are you going to make Juhani. Would not Bastila, Carth, even Jolee Bindo, have an issue letting a Sith aboard? Would she go by an alias? Would she act deceptively as a half jedi, similar to how Jolee acts, or would she be a total Sith manipulator like Palpatine, Kreia, and many other sith. Besides, Bastila isn't trained enough nor would have enough experience to accurately detect a sith presence in Juhani. 

 

I don't know if you have thought of these questions, but I thought I would voice them. 

 

I have to admit that this is probably the weak spot of this mod. The thing is that there is pretty much no interaction between the party members except for some rare banter and neither is there any dialog with one party member about the others, so you don't really get to know what they think of each other.

But to answer your question: My reasoning for why it can work that Juhani is dark sided and be with the Jedi is that they apparently don't care about the player's dark side actions either. I mean there is some dialog for it but as I stated above there's no such thing between the party members.

And a little more specific: The Council won't know that Juhani is your apprentice. And Juhani (and you as a dark side player) pretend to work for the Jedi up to the final decision on the Unknown World so we just have to assume that Bastila, Carth and the others turn a blind eye to your dark side actions and to the fact that Juhani is dark sided.

 

I know that this is not the best solution but it's the way it is without having to change too much in the game.

[Leilukin 276]

One question: With this mod, how much different the dark side version of Juhani's romance will be from the light side/vanilla version?

[Kexikus 995]

 

One question: With this mod, how much different the dark side version of Juhani's romance will be from the light side/vanilla version?

 

 

There will be almost no difference. The party member dialog has been changed so there are some other tiny dialog bits here and there, but in general it remains the same.

The final romance scene is actually one of the few scenes I haven't written yet, so I can't tell you for certain but I have no big changes planned there.

[superSzym 155]

I'm really looking forward to this mod! Would love to see some screenshots!

[Kexikus 995]

I've been thinking about the whole "the party ignores you recruiting a dark Jedi / Sith" thing. I can see Jolee, Mission and even Carth accepting this and trusting in you knowing what you're doing and thus not telling the Jedi Council. The problem here is Bastila, so I figured that adding a short scene where Bastila confronts you after you recruited Juhani would probably improve this mod. Maybe I'd even add Carth to the scene. What I currently don't know is how the player would convince Bastila not to run to the Council and tell them that you are on the best way to become a Sith.

 

Keep in mind that Bastila should be intelligent enough to get that the Cathar Jedi named Juhani is the same Cathar Jedi named Juhani that you supposedly killed on Dantooine. So the argument you make has to be at least close to being good^^ However, you can justify pretty much everything with: "I do what's necessary." in this game, so that might be one option here as well. But if anyone has a better idea, please let me know.

 

@superSzym: If I had any screenshots to show, I would do that. There might be something coming up in this regard and once it does, I'll post a screenshot

[CrashBandiTeam 18]

Could Pursade/Lie or Force Pursade work at Bastila? i mean, i don't know... that would be my ideas.

[superSzym 155]

• (Persuade/Lie) She needs redemption - and the Council doesn't have the strength to. They cannot bring her back to the light - but I can, and I have to.
• (possibly Persuade) To defeat Malak, we need help from everyone who can provide it, no matter whether it's a Jedi, a Mandalorian or a Sith. That's why i brought her here, and you must accept that.
• (Lie) You're right, Bastila. I will make her leave us as soon as we will have no more use of her.
• I trust her more than I do trust you, Princess. (Add Canderous to the cutscene and make him show his approval )
• It's none of your business - I bring who I want to.
• You're right, Bastila. (kill Juhani)

This could happen on Dantooine Enclave landing pad when you leave Dantooine.

[CrashBandiTeam 18]

Like it, but the last has to give dark side points, cuz Jedis don't execute anyone, no matter how hard their crime was

[superSzym 155]

After thinking, the last could trigger Bastila speaking that it's good, cause we cannot afford a dark Jedi and woving to execute her and Juhani speaking about wishing to learn from you and her loyalty and gratitude. Then it could happen something like:

• You're right Bastila. A dark Jedi onboard the Ebon Hawk is a true danger for our mission. We must execute her. (Kill Juhani, DS)
• I cannot let an useful being die. She may prove herself worthy of keeping. (Keep Juhani, Neutral)
• You're a hipocryte, Bastila. I remember you preaching about mercy. (Keep Juhani, Neutral)
• I'm a Jedi, Bastila. And a true Jedi never executes a person in need, no matter of their past crimes. (Keep Juhani, LS)

[Kexikus 995]

 

• (Persuade/Lie) She needs redemption - and the Council doesn't have the strength to. They cannot bring her back to the light - but I can, and I have to.
• (possibly Persuade) To defeat Malak, we need help from everyone who can provide it, no matter whether it's a Jedi, a Mandalorian or a Sith. That's why i brought her here, and you must accept that.
• (Lie) You're right, Bastila. I will make her leave us as soon as we will have no more use of her.
• I trust her more than I do trust you, Princess. (Add Canderous to the cutscene and make him show his approval )
• It's none of your business - I bring who I want to.
• You're right, Bastila. (kill Juhani)

This could happen on Dantooine Enclave landing pad when you leave Dantooine.

 

 

Thanks for those excellent suggestions

The first three will definetly work and I'll make sure to offer those. For the next two I'm not completely convinced if that would actually stop Bastila from telling the Council. But I might be able to make them work.

I'll definetly not go with the last option even though it sounds nice since Bastila wouldn't want you to kill Juhani, which means that you'd have to force Juhani to go back to Dantooine which would result in Juhani attacking her, which could actually work... Maybe I will use that option^^

 

Edit: Wow, I changed my mind quite quickly while writing that last sentence xD

 

Edit 2: Those would be some nice DS/LS options indeed (in your latest post). I'll see what I can cobble together here... And that scene is now getting far more complex than I had intended.

[CrashBandiTeam 18]

If you already kill Juhani, you can make it in a scene, fighting Juhani would be cool, but a scene would say all what it says, or Bastila vs Juhani , cuz execution.

[jc2 581]

A potential idea might be to have this conversation on the Ebon Hawk instead of on Dantooine in the Jedi enclave, this is probably harder to script. Still, having the converstaion right next to dozens of Jedi seems strange... especially if you decide to kill her right then and there. However, if you do decide on the location being there, perhaps include Juhani's girlfriend (Belena was it?) into the conversation to defend the PC's action of keeping Juhani and Juhani's potential/inevitable "redemption."  

[superSzym 155]

Bastila suggests you to leave Juhani on Dantooine, this could lead to an argue, when her and Juhani start fighting with weapons. In defense of Bastila you could kill Juhani or it would be Bastila who accidentally slays her. Belaya the Cryptolesbian comes with tears in the eyes. Sounds good.

 

Maybe also add another DS option: "Bastila, you're right. Dark Jedi are dangerous. But keeping one alive could result in danger for the Jedi Enclave. I must execute her". This will make Juhani (and Belaya) really sad.

 

For the two middle options that sound unconvincing, there could be:

• Bastila, leaving Juhani on Dantooine could prove dangerous for fauna of the Grove. We must take her away from here.
• I already trust her more than I trust you, Princess. That's because your endless delations could quickly sabotage our mission.

And yeah, having Belaya on your side could be a wonderful idea. Also, having the conversation on Dantooine would bring other nice opportunities, like Belaya running to Bastila with a lightsaber, Deesra shouting something like "What happened?", one of the party members could say "Just a little argument". You could also make Deesra matter more than just standing and speaking boring things. You could give an option to explain everything, call an argument an accident and make him not go to the Council to preserve the honor of the dead or saying that Juhani came to the Enclave to kill you if you decided to execute her himself, call it self-defense. He could then go to the Council and tell them the fate of Juhani and they will just sum it up that it is sad that she couldn't be saved. Belaya could show her hatred to you before or after that.

[Kexikus 995]

That all sounds wonderful, but having that conversation on Dantooine is simply impossible with the storyline of this mod^^

So it will happen on the Ebon Hawk. That way I get less possible characters to interact which is kinda sad as your suggestion sounds pretty good, but it also requires me to get less VOs done and that's a very very big plus for this^^

 

Anyway, thanks for all of your suggestions.

[superSzym 155]

Deesra speaks Twi'leki. Belaya speaks about her love for Juhani for long enough to splice her reactions for these scenarios, I think, and she could preach to Bastila in the way she confronts the player .

[Kexikus 995]

As I said, The conversation cannot happen on Dantooine due to The way The Story Works.

[jc2 581]

Hey Kexikus,

Any news with this WIP? 

Do you plan to change the head of Juhani to make her look more darkside?

[Guest]

I've got an idea, what if she was damaged- Malak/Darth Vader style and then you could have her fall unconscious, in fact it could work vanilla style until you either decide to kill her. (With some alternative dialogue options of course.)

But when she's near death she "dies" and then you get the option to drag her corpse back to the medical bay for reconstructive surgery or kill her while she sleeps.

 

Like a dark twist on Zev from Dragon Age.

 

I suppose I suggest this because then you could have a sort of implant looking thing on Juhani's face and you could change her VA completely and put a filter on the voice.

 

You could even have her progress to a full Darth Vader style cyborg if you wished.

Also harming her enough to warrant this and then taking her on as a sort of quasi- apprentice would harken back to Malak in a funny way. Just my suggestion.

[Kexikus 995]

Hey Kexikus,

Any news with this WIP? 

Do you plan to change the head of Juhani to make her look more darkside?

 

I was going to give you an update after this weekend, but since you ask: Here you go:

 

I finished the party member dialog as well as every other Juhani dialog and the journal entries. The only thing left before this mod is "feature complete" and ready for testing is the Bastila conversation which I plan on getting done this weekend. Then the mod needs to be tested, some polishing needs to be done and once everything is set in stone I need to get voice actors.

 

I've got an idea, what if she was damaged- Malak/Darth Vader style and then you could have her fall unconscious, in fact it could work vanilla style until you either decide to kill her. (With some alternative dialogue options of course.)

But when she's near death she "dies" and then you get the option to drag her corpse back to the medical bay for reconstructive surgery or kill her while she sleeps.

 

Like a dark twist on Zev from Dragon Age.

 

I suppose I suggest this because then you could have a sort of implant looking thing on Juhani's face and you could change her VA completely and put a filter on the voice.

 

You could even have her progress to a full Darth Vader style cyborg if you wished.

Also harming her enough to warrant this and then taking her on as a sort of quasi- apprentice would harken back to Malak in a funny way. Just my suggestion.

 

That's a nice idea, however I'm waaaay too far in the development of this mod to completely change the story to something like this. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[DarthNonOriginalName 1]

Will you release it for a public testing or will it be a closed testing done by you and possibly only few more people?

[Kexikus 995]

BIG NEWS:

The mod is now gameplay complete

 

This does not imply that the mod is fully complete or even close to being done but it is a big step in the right direction.

At this point there are now two major objectives left:

1. Create and implement all the voice over (including recording, voice splicing and lip synching).

2. Test the mod and improve it.

 

The voices cannot be done before the lines are set in stone so that obviously means that testing is the next thing that needs to be done. This will require multiple playthroughs of pretty much the entire game and that's where you come in:

 

I need you guys to help me test this mod.

 

This requires that you do a full playthrough of the game with some specific choices I need you to make. You cannot use other mods in this playthrough (except for texture mods) and I need you to report every issue you find.

Keep in mind that the mod is not completed so there are probably several bugs and it will generally not be a polished experience. Also, playing through the game takes time and while I understand this, I don't want to wait a year for you to complete the game or maybe not complete it at all.

If none of that discourages you, please send me a PM and I'll let you know what exactly I need.

If you don't feel like playing through the game just for this but would still like to help, I could use someone to read through Juhani's party member dialog for me to check for inconsistencies and other errors. If you're interested to do this, send me a PM.

 

Thanks for the interest in my mod, I'll keep you updated on the progress

[Kexikus 995]

I just completed my own playthrough of KotOR with the Dark Side Juhani mod installed, so I figured it's time for a small update.

 

Thanks to all the people helping me test this mod I now have a list of 55 bugs to fix, oversights to correct and improvements to make. Three more playthroughs are in progress so that number will probably rise some more but the big issues have hopefully been found already.

 

Now it's time to start fixing those and I've no idea how long that will take. Some of these issues are very small things that will be fixed in a few minutes each, others might take longer depending on how fast I can figure out what's causing an issue.

 

At this point I have to say THANK YOU to everyone who is testing this mod for me. This is a tremendous help and I couldn't have found all the issues without you. Thanks to you this mod will be way better polished once it's actually done. Thank you

[Fair Strides 510]

Seeing as I failed rather epically to proofread the dialog like I said I would, I volunteer any help required for the bug-fixing.

[Kexikus 995]

Seeing as I failed rather epically to proofread the dialog like I said I would, I volunteer any help required for the bug-fixing.

 

You could still do the proofreading if you want to But it's no problem if you don't get to it.

 

I'll be coming back to you once I get lost in some scripting issues or other things I can't solve.

[GoHawkeyes 0]

I just found this site, and registered today, so I'm totally a newbie, but...I do have a degree in English as well as some technical skills, so I might be able to assist with the proofreading.

 

Just wanted to throw that out there. 

 

LMK if you are interested.  I'm a KOTOR fan, and just started getting back into it and the modding community.  It's amazing how these games have held up after all these years.

 

-P