Why it's not okay to upload someone else's mods

[NxBlaze 1]

 

Now, some people might declare that is the prerogative of the modder to do, since he is the one who created the file. However, I (and others) think that freely distributing publicly created files is the essence of modding as a community, and therefore should be engaged in even over the objections of some capitalistic, corporate-minded people, whether external to the community or inside of it.

 

Whatever you (and your others) might think means jack. Anything that's published online is a subject to copyright protection, either under terms specified by the author (be it attached license or just a note in readme) or implied license.

(As long as it does not conflict with terms of site they are posting it on of course. Posting picture on facebook saying "I forbide facebook from using this picture." won't carry much meaning.)

Implied license applies when author did not specify copyright terms and allows for a limited use of content in ways he might expect it to be used - in this case being downloaded and installed. That does not mean he automatically allows for the content to be redistributed without his permission (or, as is case with Hassat's mod - against his will).

[Malkior 476]

@Vegan Meat

 

One thing that has been overlooked in your first point is that there is a HUGE difference between free-use software or property and something uploaded with an explicit disclaimer stating the author's wishes that it not be shared without their express permission.

 

The only difference is that their disclaimer has no "teeth" when it comes to people violating it, since they may not have the means fight back.

 

Their express wishes are in plain text. They don't want it to be shared like this. All artwork on the internet is treated this way, so why should this be different?

[Vegan Meat 1]

All artwork on the internet is treated this way, so why should this be different?

 

 

Because public modding is freely distributed among fans of a certain game. I'll also point out that modders don't "own" content the way artists do.

 

Additionally, I have no problems with Hassat Hunter's objections to RCM being posted to the Steam site if the service is dysfunctional and/or corrupts the quality of the installation. However, that that Darth Vader mod (to pick one) still resides only in the corner of some inbred lucasforum thread simply because no one can reach the original author (or whatever the case is) is bureaucratic dysfunction.

[Fair Strides 509]

Because public modding is freely distributed among fans of a certain game. I'll also point out that modders don't "own" content the way artists do.

 

Additionally, I have no problems with Hassat Hunter's objections to RCM being posted to the Steam site if the service is dysfunctional and/or corrupts the quality of the installation. However, that that Darth Vader mod (to pick one) still resides only in the corner of some inbred lucasforum thread simply because no one can reach the original author (or whatever the case is) is bureaucratic dysfunction.

 

So, images uploaded to a Reddit, gallery, or artistic group aren't freely-distributed among fans of a certain art style or theme? And if I make a mod that uses entirely new audio, textures, dialog, characters, areas, and textures (and create it all on either common software of the media [like Photoshop or Max] or programs that I write myself or were written by someone not affiliated with Bioware, Obsidian Entertainment, Aspyr, LucasArts, or Disney), you're saying that I can't claim my creation as mine?

[Vegan Meat 1]

To save time and for clarity, I am opposed to any notion of copyright or intellectual property in any medium.

 

you're saying that I can't claim my creation as mine?

 

 

In the same way as an artist, legally? No. You are all working within a medium created and owned by various game companies, with an ambiguously written EULA.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

3. If nobody receives compensation for publicly released files, then what modders are concerned with here is something else. There are some characters, unfortunately present within a segment of the population which I'll cheerfully term "nerds", who utilize their positions among certain small communities to inflate their egos. By appointing themselves the sole holder of what other humans seek, people who are generally unimportant in their everyday lives can achieve some measure of superiority through artificially restricting the supply of a sought-after commodity.

Hahahaha that's some imaginative speculation there. Care to elaborate more on this?

 

Whose ego is getting stroked here? Please, entertain me.

[Vegan Meat 1]

I think it was easy to understand.

[Haveayap 127]

This argument is pointless and stupid... Anyone can upload other peoples mods as long as you clearly state the author of it, this comes under the fair use act... I've done my research, There is really nothing anyone can do about it

 

The only time this sort of thing is not allowed is when all off the content has been created by you, not just some of it (If you understand what I mean)

[therevan789 7]

This argument is pointless and stupid... Anyone can upload other peoples mods as long as you clearly state the author of it, this comes under the fair use act... I've done my research, There is really nothing anyone can do about it

Not when it's agaist the rules

 

On the case of Steam, it is against the rules, on the case of this forum, it also is against the rules, that's what this discussion is about.

[Haveayap 127]

Not when it's agaist the rules

 

On the case of Steam, it is against the rules, on the case of this forum, it also is against the rules, that's what this discussion is about.

But than most of the content on steam would not be allowed, it is allowed as long as you state who the author of the mod is (which most people on steam have done). I for one would not be that bothered if a mod I had created ended up on their without my permission, its not exactly the end of the world

[therevan789 7]

But than most of the content on steam would not be allowed, it is allowed as long as you state who the author of the mod is (which most people on steam have done). I for one would not be that bothered if a mod I had created ended up on their without my permission, its not exactly the end of the world

*You* would not be bothered, however, the real author of the mod is complaining about it, yet he is being bothered, therefore

D. Representations and Warranties

 ...In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors)...

Yep, he should withdraw the mod

[NxBlaze 1]

To save time and for clarity, I am opposed to any notion of copyright or intellectual property in any medium.

 

Good for you. Your opposition still means jack.

 

This argument is pointless and stupid... Anyone can upload other peoples mods as long as you clearly state the author of it, this comes under the fair use act... I've done my research, There is really nothing anyone can do about it

 

The only time this sort of thing is not allowed is when all off the content has been created by you, not just some of it (If you understand what I mean)

 

Fair use covers reviews, criticism, parody, research, news reporting etc. And even then it's not guaranteed to protect you from breaching copyrights. Case in point: Nintendo getting YouTube videos of their games taken down not so long ago. 

 

But than most of the content on steam would not be allowed, it is allowed as long as you state who the author of the mod is (which most people on steam have done). I for one would not be that bothered if a mod I had created ended up on their without my permission, its not exactly the end of the world

 

No. Steam User Agreement clearly requires you to either be a creator of the content you upload or to have a permission to do so from the author. 

If you ever make a mod and state in readme you're not bothered - whatever, let it be uploaded all over the place. This is not the case here though.

[therevan789 7]

 

Fair use covers reviews, criticism, parody, research, news reporting etc. And even then it's not guaranteed to protect you from breaching copyrights. Case in point: Nintendo getting YouTube videos of their games taken down not so long ago. 

 

Not only does fair use do that, but also, that is only part of the US law, and US law isn't the whole world's law (As much as some would argue otherwise)

[Haveayap 127]

*You* would not be bothered, however, the real author of the mod is complaining about it, yet he is being bothered, therefore

D. Representations and Warranties

 ...In particular, with respect to Workshop Contributions, you represent and warrant that the Workshop Contribution was originally created by you (or, with respect to a Workshop Contribution to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such Workshop Contribution on behalf of those other contributors)...

Yep, he should withdraw the mod

I can understand Hassat Hunter being upset about the whole situation, but until their is some law against this happening... There is really nothing that can be done about it except to kindly ask the uploader to take it off of the steam workshop

[therevan789 7]

I can understand Hassat Hunter being upset about the whole situation, but until their is some law against this happening... There is really nothing that can be done about it except to kindly ask the uploader to take it off of the steam workshop

No, it's not that there is some law against this, it's that steam itself has rules against this, therefore, the mod HAS to be taken off workshop.

[Haveayap 127]

Lets just say (theoretically) that I spent a couple of $100 a week on steam and that I was an uploader of this mod (which makes them nothing, but other people also appear to be using this mod)... Than when they approach me and ask me to take it down and I say no.

 

who do you think Valve will look after, a modder that has no financial gain for them, or someone who spends a fair bit of money with them?? This is all theoretical, but it does sort of point out the situation that steam has been put into... the question is: How do we solve an issue like this?? 

 

(Im trying to get my point across, but not very clearly obviously...)

[1Leonard 134]

Lets just say (theoretically) that I spent a couple of $100 a week on steam and that I was an uploader of this mod (which makes them nothing, but other people also appear to be using this mod)... Than when they approach me and ask me to take it down and I say no.

 

who do you think Valve will look after, a modder that has no financial gain for them, or someone who spends a fair bit of money with them?? This is all theoretical, but it does sort of point out the situation that steam has been put into... the question is: How do we solve an issue like this?? 

 

(Im trying to get my point across, but not very clearly obviously...)

 That analogy makes no sense at all, you unrightfully presume that the modder is not a user of Steam and a customer of Valve, and since there is no such thing as a paid mod Valve doesn't lose any revenue by taking a stolen mod down.

 

You also act as if you (in this theoretical case) uploading a mod has any influence on your spending habits, which I highly doubt.

[therevan789 7]

Lets just say (theoretically) that I spent a couple of $100 a week on steam and that I was an uploader of this mod (which makes them nothing, but other people also appear to be using this mod)... Than when they approach me and ask me to take it down and I say no.

 

who do you think Valve will look after, a modder that has no financial gain for them, or someone who spends a fair bit of money with them?? This is all theoretical, but it does sort of point out the situation that steam has been put into... the question is: How do we solve an issue like this?? 

 

(Im trying to get my point across, but not very clearly obviously...)

Why would Steam care? Because you're breaking their law, that's why, and no matter how much you waste, unless you are someone rich, the money you waste doesn't matter.

Also, he helped make the most important mod on the history of the knights of the old republic, one of the flagship and most popular mods on gaming, therefore he does have a certain importance anyway.

And again, by breaking Steam's rules, aka, their law, you are taking their authority away, and that's something bigger than money.

[Haveayap 127]

 That analogy makes no sense at all, you unrightfully presume that the modder is not a user of Steam and a customer of Valve, and since there is no such thing as a paid mod Valve doesn't lose any revenue by taking a stolen mod down.

 

You also act as if you (in this theoretical case) uploading a mod has any influence on your spending habits, which I highly doubt.

Not for me personally... No. I stay away from the steam workshop altogether. I prefer the 'old' fashion way. Although I do know a few people who have recently brought TSL on steam so that they could use TSLRCM without all of the issues they have encountered in the past. Im not the best at explaining things, but I think most people can sort of understand what I am trying to say

[1Leonard 134]

Not for me personally... No. I stay away from the steam workshop altogether. I prefer the 'old' fashion way. Although I do know a few people who have recently brought TSL on steam so that they could use TSLRCM without all of the issues they have encountered in the past. Im not the best at explaining things, but I think most people can sort of understand what I am trying to say

What you're trying to say is that, to Valve, the value of an uploader of a stolen file is higher than the value of the creator of said file. 

 

This is an hypothesis based on an idea that the uploader uses Steam and the modder doesn't. Your hypothesis is improvable and the situation highly improbable.

[Fair Strides 509]

If you sign up for or join something (DS or Steam, for example), you agree to be bound by their rules, which is the exact same as agreeing to obey a law in your city, state/province, or country.

 

Regardless of anyone's financial, sociological, or political (not in the government sense of "political") standing, if Steam has a rule against uploading content without being the author or permission from the author, they have to stick by their rule when it's broken.
 

Otherwise, they will set a precedent that will be all but impossible to get rid of and could eventually ruin their reliability and standing...

[Uhuru N'Uru 5]

Just signed up to post on a bug and saw this, my background is in Skyrim modding. Skyrim was the reason the Steam Workshop was created and has both suffered and benefitted from that fact, more than any other game.

The good point of the Workshop can be counted on 1 finger, that point is it makes modding much more popular. The bad points are countless and varied, the highlights are.

 

Valve/Steam by their own admission, don't understand modding at all, they never will. Valve sees mods as their property, to them it's DLC made by others.

Big Popular Source Mods become Valve owned games with 3rd party DLC

DOTA Mod Stagnant/Abandoned >>>becomes>>> DOTA Game by Modders>>>becomes>>> DOTA 2 Game owned solely by Valve

Team Fortress Mod Stagnant/Abandoned >>>becomes>>> Team Fortress Game by Modders>>>becomes>>> Team Fortress 2 Game owned solely by Valve

Counter Strike Mod Stagnant/Abandoned >>>becomes>>> Counter Strike Game by Modders>>>becomes>>> Counter Strike: GO Game owned solely by Valve

 

Modded Games and every individual Mod are potentially broken by every single unplanned update, despite this, Steam forces Auto-Updates on both Games and Mods.

As an example, the 2013 Forced Auto-Update broke many a modded game and made all existing source mods incompatible with source, many old mods will never be updated to run on Source 2013.

 

Skyrim Nexus, the real Hub of modding (Skyrim) is where all the new modders ended up when they realise how useless the workshop is, a two-edged sword as only new users, the idiots and those banned from Nexus now use Steam.

One click modding isn't viable, with Skyrim and other early Workshop games, it was simply a downloading tool, very simple mod management was done by the game, it's launcher in Skyrim's case.

Now recent Workshop games use this new system applied to KotOR. So step forward it's now a mod manager, 10 steps back, it's now actually incompatible with Mods, not from Workshop.

More proof, if you need it, Valve/Steam show by their actions and by their own admission, don't understand modding at all.

 

Now to the issue at hand, rescuing mods from dying sites is a valid cause, though best served by the failing site arranging a handover of their mod archive, as a complete package, This general topic has been discussed countless times.

None have put the viewpoints better than Wrye, maker of the popular TES/Fallout Mod Manager. Wrye Bash in Wrye Notes: Open Modding, indeed he gave up modding because his communal modding view was in the minority.

The short version is Modding isn't isolated, few if any mods are made by a single author, without some input from others and once publicly released it becomes communal property with clear limits.

Site rules are primary and decided by those paying/running the site.

Authors controls their mod with limitations, the mod cannot be withdrawn once puublic and fully cited derivivatives are always allowed, but only with original author, named first and foremost.

Dead mods can be rehosted, but under the authors name only, with host site credited as uploader, not an individual. Author is only obliged to have a single hosting site, of their own choice.

 

So even under the principles of open and fair modding, what occuring on Steam is wrong, the mods are available here and that's more than enough, you want them, you come here to get them.

Open source does not mean open distribution and never has.

 

Finally and most importantly

Steam is a lot better at taking down mods nowadays, but it takes a while to establish who is the true owner/author. Approching Steam as a unified site able to verify an authors claim, could help.

Contacting Dark One, the owner of Nexus Mods for his knowledge, experience and most importantly, Steam contacts, is probably the best action possible to expediate the process as a hosting site.

[VarsityPuppet 1,085]

TLDR, mod stuff

Very insightful. Genuinely, thank you for posting. We certainly could benefit from teaming up with other modding communities, it seems.

[Fair Strides 509]

I am FULLY in line with Varsity Puppet's message, Uhuru N'Uru. I thank you very much for your insight and aid, as well as your obvious experience and levelheadedness, which a lot of us (me almost certainly near the front of the line) have temporarily misplaced...

[1Leonard 134]

Quality post

 

This was a great read, thanks!