Bug : The ship we arrived in, the Ebon Hawk, must still be in this place. We should recover it and leave.

[ttlan 18]

In 101PER_dlg\101kreia.dlg

 

I start a new game to check the solution on my site.

 

As you know, my site is a tool for researchs and all dialogs are reproduced verbatim.

 

In the dialog referenced (the first one between Kreia and the Exile, in the Pegarus mortuary), I noticed, there is a long time (probably before TSLRCM) the use of StrRef 74048:

 

"The ship we arrived in must still be in this place. We should recover it and leave."

 

Now I discover that it's currently StrRef 130790 that is used:

 

"The ship we arrived in, the Ebon Hawk, must still be in this place. We should recover it and leave."

 

This seems to be a mistake because at this point, Kreia completely ignores how she got where she is (and she does not know where she is). The conversation also shows that she makes speak the Exile to try to understand what she know, because Kreia does not know anything at that time, just before begining to lie to the Exile.

 

In particular, if Kreia knows she left Malachor aboard the Ebon Hawk, she does not know how she got here, at Peragus, and she do not have any interest in revealing at the Exile that she knows something (the name of this little ship, the Ebon Hawk), this would be suspect to the Exile who is not lagging behind and is General in the Republican army and is therefore able to "read" a conversation between the lines.

 

I do think StrRef 74048 is a better option.

 

TTLan

[MrPhil 58]

Uh, not sure about that. For all we know, the creepy old witch is just playing with the Exile and force extracted these informations from the Peragus personnel.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

She does mention the EH several times when you get back from the lower level, and that is infact "her" ship.

 

That she knows nothing of were she is, that doesn't seem like a thruth at all... in character of what Kreia is.

[ttlan 18]

Uh, not sure about that. For all we know, the creepy old witch is just playing with the Exile and force extracted these informations from the Peragus personnel.

 

She does mention the EH several times when you get back from the lower level, and that is infact "her" ship.

 

That she knows nothing of were she is, that doesn't seem like a thruth at all... in character of what Kreia is.

 

Not sure at all of that. She is still in catalepsy and did not have any exchange with the Péragus staff. She just had the feeling of their frightful scare and of their agony.

 

When she wake up, everyone is dead. It's too late to get any information.

 

And when the Exile asks a first question, Kreia responds by a question (it is a very Japanese method) showing that she does not want to engage in conversation because she knows nothing and wants to know what knows the Exile before telling her salads thereafter without any risk.

 

The first one who will give the name of the ship will be HK-50, much more later.

[MrPhil 58]

I guess this is the kind of stuff that may happen when a dev team is rushed and has to put out a game too soon than they should. These conditions may imply omissions. ttlan, you must understand that the story of this game has been corrupted. They had to rush-it, so the story basically lost some details. Furthermore, a dev team has many ideas, and has to discard some of them in order to get a story that makes sense. Now since they left some (a lot of) unused content and no notes on the usefulness or "cannonicity" of them, we should assume that the official and only version that is official is vanilla. Slight problem: like so many of us, you think the game lack a little something and that by restoring some parts of the game, it will be easier to understand, have more depth to-it. The problem is we can't be sure what they really thought was going to happen. Furthermore, we have to consider this game was not the idea of a single person, but of many a one. So even they must have encountered some divergent opinions.

 

So here's where TSL RCM comes: they restore as much content as possible but try at best as they can to preserve the intentions of the authors, without a lot of informations of what should have been. What's more, they have to judge what makes sense and what doesn't. The informations you seem to contest are on the same nature than that of what the original team must have discussed, but since this is no official team, but some great modders that give their free time to make a great game even greater, I think we should thrust their judgment when they have to decide if something is worth restoring or not. If any of us disagree with what they are restoring we have 2 options: do not download/install the mod and keep to vanilla or try to be as proficient modders as they are and modify what we think should be.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

She just had the feeling of their frightful scare and of their agony.

It's Kreia. She won't have such limited comprehension of the situation like that.

When she wake up, everyone is dead. It's too late to get any information.

And she wakes up exactly as the exile enters. And talks to the exile before that. What a coincidence? But everyone knows true coincidences are rare with the Force.

You may have to take into account she was never incapacitated in the first place.

showing that she does not want to engage in conversation because she knows nothing and wants to know what knows the Exile before telling her salads thereafter without any risk.

Or wants that even when knowing full well what is the situation. You may notice Kreia does that a lot during the game.

 

And the Ebon Hawk name appears much earlier in holologs (not to mention quest logs).

[Sith Holocron 2,452]

Remember: she also pulls the "catatonic state" trick later - when the Exile is about to face the Red Eclipse gang. The Exile's companion's are about to fend off the attackers when Kreia incapictates them and then lies on the ground.

 

I think I'm remembering the scene corectly . . .

[ttlan 18]

Hi all,

 

MrPhil, I understand what you says. The question is :

 

When modifications are not "Restoring content" bug think that such sentence could be replaced by another who looks like it with a small difference (or any action that looks just like a detail for one of the team, carried away by his own beliefs), would it not be possible to discuss of that in a small group of us, before introducing a comma that can change the spirit of the story?

 

In this case, precisely, this phrase not used by Obsidian, introduces a clarification, which appears to satisfy the one who brought it in the MOD, whereas, in fact, the original sentence seems to be best as K2 is and must remain a secret book with puzzles in the dialogues that are asking questions but should not provide direct answers, only fugitive suggestions.

 

Remember: she also pulls the "catatonic state" trick later - when the Exile is about to face the Red Eclipse gang. The Exile's companion's are about to fend off the attackers when Kreia incapictates them and then lies on the ground.

 

I think I'm remembering the scene corectly . . .

 

Her catatonic state is not a simple simulation: the Siths, including Sion, have observed her in the Ebon Hawk, and had mistaken her for a corpse. Physicians have examined her and had mistaken her for a dead woman. Her body is rigid and in the same position since the EH to the morgue of Peragus.

 

I will not compare the capabilities of a Darth Sion or the medical profession to observe a body with the morons of the "Red Eclipse" to whom it is sufficient to project a mental image of a group on the ground.

 

And the Ebon Hawk name appears much earlier in holologs (not to mention quest logs).

 

Right : 101PER_dlg.erf\medoff.dlg StrRef 74496 :

 

"...still examining the survivors of the damaged freighter - looks like it goes by the name of {hesitates, looking up name}the Ebon Hawk."

 

This comes after the awaking of the Exile and before Kreia meeting. So the change is permissible. It therefore reinforces the futur lie of Kreia when she later claims to have attacked the Harbinger to rescue the Exile!

 

Ok! Forget it.

 

TTLan

[Hassat Hunter 571]

Hold on.

 

What makes you think that the Harbinger Recovery was a lie? (as HK-50 confirmed that story)

Second, when did the Sith and Sion check the Ebon Hawk? It came, it left, it got shot at. I don't see no info the Sith ever set foot.

 

Maybe once I realise how you came to these conclusions can I support your suggestions on how to keep this "storyline", which, quite frankly, seems to be completely wrong.

[ttlan 18]

Hold on.

 

What makes you think that the Harbinger Recovery was a lie? (as HK-50 confirmed that story)

Second, when did the Sith and Sion check the Ebon Hawk? It came, it left, it got shot at. I don't see no info the Sith ever set foot.

 

Maybe once I realise how you came to these conclusions can I support your suggestions on how to keep this "storyline", which, quite frankly, seems to be completely wrong.

 

 

If you recall, the logs of the officers and doctors of Peragus say there are corpses everywhere in the Ebon Hawk. We have already spoken about that. If I remember, we even agreed that indeed it would be an idea to "throw" a few corpses in the Ebon Hawk and the morgue.

 

1 / I do not see why Kreia would be playing a dead woman if there was no one that she and T3-M4 on board the Ebon Hawk.

 

2 / If she makes the dead, according to you, it's because who is mounted on board the Ebon Hawk? And what are all these corpses?

 

Kreia has never set foot aboard the Harbinger when the Ebon Hawk was towed into the hold of the Harbinger. She lies.

 

It's HK-50 who captured the Exile on the Harbinger and transported her in the Ebon Hawk. His initial plan was to flee the Harbinger aboard a rescue capsule when he will be near Nar Shaddaa. But the arrival of the Sith, who jumped from the Ebon Hawk to the Harbinger (and not from the ship of Sion to the Harbinger - the woman's doctor of the harbinger suggested that) upsets his plans and he decides to use the Ebon Hawk to escape.

 

If I remember, them to (the medical personnal of the Harbinger - they where alive at that time) say there where corpses everywhere in the Ebon Hawk.

[Hassat Hunter 571]

If you recall, the logs of the officers and doctors of Peragus say there are corpses everywhere in the Ebon Hawk. We have already spoken about that. If I remember, we even agreed that indeed it would be an idea to "throw" a few corpses in the Ebon Hawk and the morgue.

Indeed they do. Whose are unknown. Definitely not Sith though. It might be Republic soldiers trying to flee the Harbinger, it might be other people entirely.

1 / I do not see why Kreia would be playing a dead woman if there was no one that she and T3-M4 on board the Ebon Hawk.

And the exile. And HK-50.

2 / If she makes the dead, according to you, it's because who is mounted on board the Ebon Hawk? And what are all these corpses?

Mounted?

Kreia has never set foot aboard the Harbinger when the Ebon Hawk was towed into the hold of the Harbinger. She lies.

So who dragged the exile to the Ebon Hawk? T3? I find that hard to believe.

It's HK-50 who captured the Exile on the Harbinger

So far it's true.

and transported her in the Ebon Hawk.

Pay attention when meeting HK-50 again. He only took a ride aboard the Ebon Hawk since they stole his "bounty"... the exile. He didn't bring the exile to the EH himself. What makes you say that?

who jumped from the Ebon Hawk to the Harbinger (and not from the ship of Sion to the Harbinger - the woman's doctor of the harbinger suggested that)

Uhm... what? Lines?

he decides to use the Ebon Hawk to escape.

As said, that was not the plan at all. You should listen to HK-50 again...

If I remember, them to (the medical personnal of the Harbinger - they where alive at that time) say there where corpses everywhere in the Ebon Hawk.

Weren't both ships completely abandoned? (I recall the Harbinger logs said that) No bodies except for a sole Sith Lord? Not even Kreia's, thus. Interesting, eh?

[ttlan 18]

Indeed they do. Whose are unknown. Definitely not Sith though. It might be Republic soldiers trying to flee the Harbinger, it might be other people entirely.

 

The idea that the bodies could be those of soldiers of the Republic, fleeing the Harbinger invaded by the Sith, while the Ebon Hawk is moored in a hold of the Harbinger, does not hold. The Harbinger staff would not have register terse messages from objective observers of the scene, talking about bodies found in a ship they search. They would speak with anxiety and/or panic of their own men killed, they do not know how.

 

The Republic Doctor of the Harbinger to the captain of the Harbinger:

77853 : [static.] "Everyone on the Ebon Hawk was dead, sir... we're starting autopsies within the hour."

 

In addition, long before the Harbinger came near the Ebon Hawk, they received a SOS from the Ebon Hawk :

 

77868 : "Sir, we've just received an emergency broadcast... a freighter, under attack by Sith forces."

 

The message is clear: it is the Sith forces that attack the Ebon Hawk, getting on board the Ebon Hawk, otherwise the message would say they are attacked by a ship (in addition, seen from afar, the ship that attack the Ebon Hawk is probably a Republican ship extracted from the gravitational well of Malachor V - but Kreia knows the ship of her pupil, Sion, and I think she is still awake, when T3 send the SOS).

 

 

And the exile. And HK-50.

 

I insist! When the men of the Harbinger searched the Ebon Hawk, HK-50 has not yet decided to take the Ebon Hawk rather than an escape pod to flee the Harbinger, which has not yet all its systems completely breakdown. The Exile is still in the kolto tank of the Harbinger infirmary, and HK-50 is still on board the Harbinger!

 

There only is, aboard the Ebon Hawk, the carcasses of droids, an old lady (allready died ?), 3C-FD, the carcass of HK-47, T3-M4 and bodies everywhere, that are not the bodies of republican soldiers.

 

 

Mounted?

 

Oooops! Board.

 

 

So who dragged the exile to the Ebon Hawk? T3? I find that hard to believe.

 

There is something that escapes you? Something you do not understand? It is HK-50 that takes the Exile, in coma, to the medical bay of the Ebon Hawk and then fled on board the Ebon Hawk, after putting down all systems on the Harbinger.

 

Then, we do not know how, T3-M4 locked HK-50 in the hold. By surprise, no doubt. I guess that HK-50, once the Ebon Hawk programmed to Nar Shaddaa, will go to see what is in the Ebon Hawk and is intrigued by a carcass that looks like him, HK-47. T3-M4 has only to lock the door.

 

Then, T3-M4 redirect the EH to the Harbinger and, speculation, locks the astrogation system at that time.

 

 

Pay attention when meeting HK-50 again. He only took a ride aboard the Ebon Hawk since they stole his "bounty"... the exile. He didn't bring the exile to the EH himself. What makes you say that?

 

Uhm... what? Lines?

 

As said, that was not the plan at all. You should listen to HK-50 again...

 

I concede that no message recorded on board the Harbinger, on the three consoles, says that there is an old lady died in the Ebon Hawk, but only that "everyone is dead". This does not lead us either one way or the other.

 

I still think it's HK-50 alone that carries the Exile on the Ebon Hawk because Kreia has too much to do with the Sith assassins aboard the Ebon Hawk and, more important than anything, she does not know at all that the Exile is on board the Harbinger - her concern, recently, since some minutes, since she boarded the Ebon Hawk and fled the Trayus Academy, is Sion and his band of assassins.

 

Its role is, unwittingly, to clean the Ebon Hawk for HK-50 and then, at some point, play dead.

 

There are, of course, gray areas. This is the signature of Kotor 2. In particular, there is this story told by HK-50 and the fact that the French translation on which I based so far is fanciful:

 

74415 : Admission: It was a matter of chance, Master. I happened to be serving as a protocol droid on the Harbinger when you booked passage. After that, it was a simple matter to sabotage the Harbinger and call for a retrieval.

74416 : Irritated Statement: However, when the Ebon Hawk appeared and salvaged us from the wreckage, I was forced into a series of rapid recalculations, culminating in our current situation.

 

It would be HK-50 that would have called for help, and it would be the Ebon Hawk who would came to the rescue of the Harbinger! This is not credible.

 

And :

 

76634 : Your cargo compartment was breached, and you were taken on board the freighter shortly before the Harbinger's systems began to go critical.

 

This is unclear and leaves open to interpretation. Sayed by HK-50, this, "Your cargo compartment was breached" may significate that the medical bay systems are down and that HK-50 is in a hurry to save the Exile otherwise his 'bounty' may no longer worth nothing once dead.

 

I do not see Kreia locking the Exile in a hold that she would carry in the Ebon Hawk - this seems stupid (and how an old lady would carry the removable cargo while, at the same time, you would say that she is awake and can simply confuse the minds of everyone - why would she hide the Exile and make her difficult to transport?). HK-50 tells a story - he's lying (which bothers me, too, because I tend to think that the droids do not lie.

 

In fact, everyone, HK-50 and Kreia, tryes to pretend that it is the other one that had taken the Exile and that it is himself who saved her. So what they say, one like the other, is not credible. Only objective records, from the Harbinger and then from Peragus can then be taken into account. And they are timestamped! This had allowed me to make a timeline of the hours before Kotor 2. English version of this page (never finish : if someboby can help me...)

 

That Kreia snaps into catalepsy herself, to escape the onslaught of Sith assassins in the Ebon Hawk, or is stunned by the firing of the Harbinger when the Ebon Hawk escapes from the Harbinger, does not allow me, at any time, think that she participated, in any manner whatsoever, at the transfer of the Exile from the Harbinger to the Ebon Hawk.

 

And since there is no more argument in another sense, our two positions are equal and are both, speculative.

 

But, in my opinion, these are the shots of the ship of Darth Sion that were very dangerous and have half destroyed the Ebon Hawk. When the Ebon Hawk escapes from Harbinger, all systems of the Harbinger are destroyed, including his navigation systems, his firing and aiming systems etc.. ...

 

77846 : [static.] "We're still experiencing a problem with the communications array, and now maintenance is telling me there's a cascade failure in the weapon sys..."{systems}

 

They can't move. And the Sith need a long time to repair the Harbinger and learn how to use it. It's the reason why they are late to join Peragus.

 

 

Weren't both ships completely abandoned? (I recall the Harbinger logs said that) No bodies except for a sole Sith Lord? Not even Kreia's, thus. Interesting, eh?

 

False. Totaly false. Once again :

 

The Republic Doctor of the Harbinger to the captain of the Harbinger:

77853 : [static.] "Everyone on the Ebon Hawk was dead, sir... we're starting autopsies within the hour."

 

 

I regret not having more time to devote to these constructive controversy that require searching and justifies the claim.

 

Amitiés

 

TTLan