Story discussion: can someone translate this Jedispeak into standard English?

[Markus Ramikin 107]

In T3's holorecording, after the Jedi Council sentenced the Exile to exile, they speak a while longer. When I turn my bullshit-detection on, the whole thing turns into random babble going from one nonsequitur into another. Even if they were wrong, what did they THINK they understood about the Exile? What did they hope she'd accomplish in her journey? What was e.g. Kavar's model of reality, what did he imagine he understood?

Anyone able to understand this better than I do?

Quote

Atris: "We have not lost a Jedi this day. You felt it... she has lost herself. She is no Jedi - She walked Revan's path, but she was not strong enough."
Zez: "I fear it is our teachings that may have led Revan to choose the path he did."
Atris: "We are not the ones who taught him."
Vash: "We take responsibility, Atris, not cast blame."
Kavar: "The choice of one was the choice of us all. Revan's teacher intended no harm. And Revan had many teachers since."
Atris: "Yet they all stem from the same source. Her teachings violated the Jedi Code and lead all who listen to the Dark Side, as they did the exile."
Vash: "You are wrong. The Dark Side is not what I sensed in the exile. Surely the rest of you felt it as well. That emptiness we felt... she has changed."
Atris: "Whatever that... wound was, it was of the Dark Side. We should not have let her depart. She will simply join Revan again, or perhaps worse."
Zez: "What would you have be done with her, Atris? Be mindful of your feelings! This is not Revan who stood before you. This one walks a different path. "
Kavar: "No, although that may come in time. We let her go because we must. Where she travels, she carries her destination with her."
Atris: "Malachor V should have been her grave. You saw it in her walk, and in the Force. It was as if she was already dead."
Zez: "No, not death. Many battles remain for that one, if what we have seen is true. But the future is a shifting thing, and she cuts like a blade through it."
Vash: "We should have told her the truth. A Jedi deserves to know."
Vrook: "No good would have come from it, even if what you believed was true. There is still the matter of Revan, and such truths could leave us vulnerable on two fronts."
Kavar: "Perhaps in many years, we will call her before us and explain what happened to her and how she may be healed. Until then, she must accept her journey."

My reaction...

I understand Atris' part, of course. She originally looked up to/loved the Exile, but grew to hate the Exile for going to war, when Atris wanted to go too but chose not to. Because of this, she chooses to condemn the Exile as someone who's fallen to the Dark Side. Malak's vision and Kreia explain it well later, and the Exile had a chance to realize it during the verbal sparring with Atris.

But the others?

• What do they mean by having played into the hands of the enemy? In what way, specifically?
• What about their teachings "caused Revan to choose the path he did"? What, specifically, did Zez think was wrong with their teachings?
• In what way would telling the Exile about her condition "leave them vulnerable on two fronts"?
• The Exile "carries her destination with her"? The hell does that mean?
• What were they referring to, about how the exile may be healed? Does that ever come up again?

Note that I'm well familiar with the rest of the story. I've finished the game many times, and I remember what happens later on Dantooine, Telos, and Malachor. And indeed what happens later is partly why none of this meshes for me. Here they have some method in mind for the Exile to be healed, but later they just want to cut her off from the Force, wut?

[N-DReW25 1,336]

I think some some of those lines are restored hence is why they may not make sense.

 

"Played into the hands of the enemy"= walked into the enemies trap 

 

"caused Revanto choose the path he did"= maybe they ignored the signs that Revan was craving knowledge and power as a Jedi before the war, in K1 the masters say they thought it was just a padawans curiosity but they where wrong. Also in K1, Vrook thought it was the crystal cave on Dantooine that made Revan and Malak evil as if it where like the Dagobah cave

 

"What were they referring to, about how the exile may be healed? Does that ever come up again"= The Jedi masters didn't cut her/him from the force but rather it was the deaths at Malachor that did it and they knew this. The Exile eventually gets healed on Peragus at the first level up and is a wound in the force which means she/he can kill others and get stronger for it (xp and leveling up)

[Markus Ramikin 107]

Heh, yeah, I know what that expression means. My question was what, specifically, Vrook could have had in mind.

Huh? IIRC wasn't Vrook in K1 talking about the Jedi ruins as the possible place where Revan and Malak's corruption started? Rather than the crystal cave. Not that it's relevant to the question of the flaws in Jedi teachings, either way.

On 6/25/2019 at 3:20 PM, N-DReW25 said:

"What were they referring to, about how the exile may be healed? Does that ever come up again"= The Jedi masters didn't cut her/him from the force but rather it was the deaths at Malachor that did it and they knew this. The Exile eventually gets healed on Peragus at the first level up and is a wound in the force which means she/he can kill others and get stronger for it (xp and leveling up)

Like I said, I know this. It's not what I asked.

[Ebony Moon 187]

Zez is probably referring to the teaching that a Jedi's life is sacrifice. Kreia had already covered that perhaps Revan going to the Dark Side was a sacrifice for the greater good. I think a lot of the discussion hinges on that.

Given that the production of the game was so rushed that we don't get to see what each of the Masters have to say in any real detail, so it's a guess what exactly some of them are thinking. Also, they are disturbed and may not really know what they are talking about. Notice how they hold themselves. They are afraid of the Exile; they don't want to tell the truth of the Exile's power, or the danger the Exile poses to them, lest the Exile act against them, even unknowingly. They do tell the Exile later when they want to use the Force block. As for answers, they don't have any for the Exile, the Exile has find them within. As for healing, I'm not sure.

Revan did, after all, send the Exile back to disturb the Jedi, as a form of psychological warfare.

[Allien 2]

Zez: "You were correct Kavar. When she was here I felt it. It was as if she was not there, more like an echo."

Kavar: "Revan's influence has grown among the yougest in our Order. He speaks to their passions, not their senses. The war has touched them... and many of them found themselves in the war against the Mandalorians.

Vash: "It is as I feared. And I fear we have played right into the hands of the enemy"

--- Vash: I believe it was part of the Mandalorians' plan to split the Jedi, on the matter of whether the Jedi should interfere in the war or not.

Atris: "We have not lost a Jedi this day. You felt it... she has lost herself. She is no Jedi - She walked Revan's path, but she was not strong enough."
Zez: "I fear it is our teachings that may have led Revan to choose the path he did."

--- Zez: We taught Revan, that the life of a Jedi is sacrifice. We may have caused him to fall to the dark side, so he could save the galaxy from the Mandalorian threat.
Atris: "We are not the ones who taught him."

--- Atris: Kreia/Arren Kae taught him that, not us. We cannot be blamed for neither her teachings, nor his fall.
Vash: "We take responsibility, Atris, not cast blame."
Kavar: "The choice of one was the choice of us all. Revan's teacher intended no harm. And Revan had many teachers since."

--- Kavar: Kreia/Arren Kae was a fellow Jedi (who died in the Mandalorian wars). She meant no harm in her teachings. Also, even if what Atris says was true, Revan had many teachers who could have convinced him otherwise.
Atris: "Yet they all stem from the same source. Her teachings violated the Jedi Code and lead all who listen to the Dark Side, as they did the exile."
Vash: "You are wrong. The Dark Side is not what I sensed in the exile. Surely the rest of you felt it as well. That emptiness we felt... she has changed."
Atris: "Whatever that... wound was, it was of the Dark Side. We should not have let her depart. She will simply join Revan again, or perhaps worse."
Zez: "What would you have be done with her, Atris? Be mindful of your feelings! This is not Revan who stood before you. This one walks a different path. "
Kavar: "No, although that may come in time. We let her go because we must. Where she travels, she carries her destination with her."

- ('Where she travels, she carries her destination with her'...perhaps a weird way of saying, that traveling will help her understand herself and why she is wrong (because the masters assume they are correct))
Atris: "Malachor V should have been her grave. You saw it in her walk, and in the Force. It was as if she was already dead."
Zez: "No, not death. Many battles remain for that one, if what we have seen is true. But the future is a shifting thing, and she cuts like a blade through it."
Vash: "We should have told her the truth. A Jedi deserves to know."
Vrook: "No good would have come from it, even if what you believed was true. There is still the matter of Revan, and such truths could leave us vulnerable on two fronts."

--- (I'm not sure what Vrook means with 'the matter of Revan'. At this point Revan has disappeared with most of the Republics' troops into the Unknown Regions. 'Such truths will leave us vulnearable' is explained at the bottom.
Kavar: "Perhaps in many years, we will call her before us and explain what happened to her and how she may be healed. Until then, she must accept her journey."

--- (The council doesn't trust her, due to them foreseeing the Jedi civil war. They expect her to be their enemy and if she was healed immediately, they fear she would attack and overpower them through the wound in the force and/or use the wound in the force to create Force Bonds and quickly create her own followers to turn the remaining Jedi Order to her side. Also, they believe that they are definitely correct and that if she takes the time to think about it she will definitely come to agree with them.)